Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

Kermit.de.frog

Tea drinker wrote: »

Cheers. Can I ask, which country are or aren't reporting non hospital covid deaths?
E.g. till now UK has not been reporting nursing home deaths like we do.

No country appears to be including everything on a daily basis each for their own nonsensical reasons.

Bureaucracy is a handy excuse to give the public.

Hector Savage

some good news

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52289657

Good man Mr Bezos..

Rob A. Bank

eagle eye wrote: »

For all the bad things that's said about Trump, and he is an idiot at best, he stopped all non-essential flights from China very early on in this and was universally criticised for it. His opponent in the next Presidential election called him xenophobic for doing it.

Yet another Trump lie.

Joe Biden actually said in his tweet "We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump’s record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering."

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1223727977361338370

Tony EH

Turtwig wrote: »

Look I don't like China but even then there are limits.
Their initial PCR tests had a false negative of about 30%. So they were largely relying on lung images to make formal diagnosis. You can't just x-ray your entire population when the health service is bursting at the seems in a pandemic.
If China was the most transparent society on earth they'd never be able to report the actual number of infected accurately. They were caught completely in the initial outbreak. Testing, resources, diagnostics are extremely limited.

Facts like these don't matter though. It's only about bashing a country. The contextual stuff is irrelevant.

eagle eye

Rob A. Bank wrote:

Joe Biden actually said in his tweet "We need to lead the way with science — not Donald Trump’s record of hysteria, xenophobia, and fear-mongering."

So along with caliing his decision xenophobic he called it hysterical and fear mongering. Wow.

tobefrank321

growleaves wrote: »

You're not wrong.

The reported death rate so far is 0.002% of the global population.

Taiwan: Six dead. Population 24 million. No lockdown.

The Taiwanese response is one of the most impressive if not the most impressive in the world.

Travel bans were a key element though.

Travel notices[edit]
Due to the coronavirus outbreak, Level 3 travel alerts have been issued by Taiwan for every country or region globally.[75] Taiwanese authorities suspended tours to China starting in February 2020.[76] The ban's duration was extended through April 2020,[77] and expanded to cover Hong Kong and Macau.[78] On 31 January, Italy banned flights from Mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan.[79][80] However, China Airlines was permitted to fly Taiwanese nationals in Italy to Taiwan.[81][82] Taiwan announced a ban on cruise ships entering all Taiwanese ports from February 6.[83] On 10 February, the Philippines announced a ban on the entry of Taiwanese citizens due to the One-China Policy.[84] Later on 14 February, Presidential Spokesperson of Philippines, Salvador Panelo, announced the lifting of the temporary ban on Taiwan.[85] On 23 February 2020, Taiwan banned frontline medical professionals working in hospitals from traveling to areas placed under a Level 3 travel alert.[86][87] The ban is to remain in place until 30 June.[88] On 16 March, the Executive Yuan announced that teachers and students at the secondary school level and below were prohibited from overseas travel until July.[89] Starting 19 March foreign nationals were barred from entering Taiwan, with some exceptions, such as those carrying out the term of a business contract, holding valid Alien Resident Certificates, diplomatic credentials, or other official documentation and special permits.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Taiwan

They also sent a fact finding mission to China early in the outbreak.

In mid-January, Taiwan sent a team of experts on a fact-finding mission to China — with permission, even though Taiwanese-Chinese relations are less than stellar.


"They didn't let us see what they didn't want us to see, but our experts sensed the situation was not optimistic," Kolas Yotaka, a Taiwanese government representative, told NBC News.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

81 miles from the Chinese mainland, 395 cases and 6 deaths in total.

Tony EH

eagle eye wrote: »

Who has provided the most funds to the WHO in the last twelve months and in history?
They have every right to criticise them if they feel the job they are doing isn't good enough.

You don't mention anything about their performance during this pandemic. The reason for that I'd guess is you know they have given lots of bad advice.

Nobody's "performance" has been top tier. How could it be. We're dealing with something that hasn't been seen since the end of the First World War. That's no reason to play petty politics with the World Health Organisation, IN THE MIDDLE OF A GLOBAL PANDEMIC FOR FUCK SAKE.

That doesn't help one bit.

As for criticising, sure...criticise. But this isn't about criticism. It's about point scoring and diverting public attention away from Trump and the Republican's own shortcomings in this crisis.

Duke of Url

Duke of Url wrote: »

I notice Driving School lessons are still happening in my area. not sure its a great idea.

if a healthcare worker needs a licence to get to work, and needs lessons to pass the test, it could be classed as a necessity.

spookwoman

What happened with belgium major jump in numbers unless they included nursing homes or something

Rob A. Bank

eagle eye wrote: »

So along with caliing his decision xenophobic he called it hysterical and fear mongering. Wow.

Ehh no. he did not mention the decision.

He called Trump's record hysterical , xenophobic, and fear-mongering.

And all of that is true.

Time to change the contacts ? :rolleyes:

khalessi

Im just glad Trump promoted people with experience to help in a pandemic such as Ivanka and Jared

Tea drinker

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No country appears to be including everything on a daily basis each for their own nonsensical reasons.

Bureaucracy is a handy excuse to give the public.

For Sweden they have an extremely paltry testing regimen and seem to believe if you don't test for the virus then no one has it, including almost all those dead people.
Seems a very callous attitude if true.

Beasty

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Just putting it out - is it time to ban running in public?

Why?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Was it a bad move in your opinion?

well it is being touted by a certain orange cretin as evidence how he handled the crisis so well. As part of a coordinated international effort it may have been a good move, but unilaterally all he did was play to his nationalistic instincts. It probably did not make things worse in itself, however a useful strategy may have been to continue to allow flights with health checks and follow ups. Instead people probably just went by another route.

Snow Garden

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Just putting it out - is it time to ban running in public?

No. It wont happen. Would be idiotic to do so.

eagle eye

Rob A. Bank wrote:

Ehh no. he did not mention the decision.

All that you quoted was his response to the ban on non-essential flights from China so its exactly what he was talking about.
And just so you know, that's how it was reported everywhere including CNN at the time. Most agreed with him too.

is_that_so

keynes wrote: »

Are you for real, are you? On average 450 arriving in on a single day in the midst of a pandemic raving the world, and this is somehow not a problem.

I'm quoting Dublin Airport numbers and 900 is a very small number. You should talk to them.

tobefrank321

joe_99 wrote: »

NY alone need to add an additional 3.5k deaths that were not recorded correctly. Source Worldometer. This is happening everywhere

Its also happening in Ireland as our CMO admitted. Its also happening in the UK who are doing far worse than the US. Its happening in Italy and Spain.

You'd swear there was only one country in the world, the US.

As I said before, individual states are responsible for testing and collating numbers.

is_that_so

Beasty wrote: »

Why?

Because last week it was families on paths!

Rob A. Bank

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The Taiwanese response is one of the most impressive if not the most impressive in the world.

Travel bans were a key element though.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Taiwan

They also sent a fact finding mission to China early in the outbreak.


https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

81 miles from the Chinese mainland, 395 cases and 6 deaths in total.

Agreed !

They also had over half a million countrymen working in China, many of whom returned for the Lunar New Year festival, and also a shore visit of many people from the death ship 'The Diamond Princess. All those threats were contained by meticulous contact tracing and isolation.

Taiwan is THE example of best practice for the defense of an island during a pandemic.

We would do well to learn from them before the next pandemic.

smelly sock

Fine Gael / Fail being snakey and sly using the Covid crisis to go into partnership together.

No doubt Martin will see that Covid was unforeseen and that's why he has gone into Govt with FG.

smelly sock

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The Taiwanese response is one of the most impressive if not the most impressive in the world.

Travel bans were a key element though.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Taiwan

They also sent a fact finding mission to China early in the outbreak.


https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

81 miles from the Chinese mainland, 395 cases and 6 deaths in total.

Taiwan. LOL.

is_that_so

smelly sock wrote: »

Fine Gael / Fail being snakey and sly using the Covid crisis to go into partnership together.

No doubt Martin will see that Covid was unforeseen and that's why he has gone into Govt with FG.

They are the only block of numbers who can give it a go and this possibility emerged in pre-virus times.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Isn't there a politics forum for Trump talk? Or any other leader for that matter except maybe Leo what with this being Ireland.

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

well it is being touted by a certain orange cretin as evidence how he handled the crisis so well. As part of a coordinated international effort it may have been a good move, but unilaterally all he did was play to his nationalistic instincts. It probably did not make things worse in itself, however a useful strategy may have been to continue to allow flights with health checks and follow ups. Instead people probably just went by another route.

How is it unilateral? Most countries put in place restrictions. Even China now bans all but its own citizens from travelling there. Many countries have similar policies.

As for coordinated response, see the lack of one in the EU. They couldn't agree to ground flights, to they let them continue. That was a catastrophic mistake.

expectationlost

expectationlost wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1250365064726659073
anyone have an image of the text sent by the HSE ?

it might help fraudsters so maybe don't post it, but it would be useful to compare.

what if the IT system left the reference number bit blank... https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/testing.html

others getting text with no ref number https://twitter.com/fresheire/status/1250417078625955840 interesting that they all near the same date, they hadn't worked errors out of the system yet very unfortunately.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

well it is being touted by a certain orange cretin as evidence how he handled the crisis so well. As part of a coordinated international effort it may have been a good move, but unilaterally all he did was play to his nationalistic instincts. It probably did not make things worse in itself, however a useful strategy may have been to continue to allow flights with health checks and follow ups. Instead people probably just went by another route.

Even the most horrible, stupid people do the right thing sometimes.
If you are trying to criticise him over something which any person with a bit of a brain knows was a right decisuon then you are beyond saving.
My advice, walk away from American politics. Read about woeful world leaders not named Trump like Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Pinochet and Idi Amin. Then come back with a bit of reality. He us an awful, horrible man and a terrible President but that doesn't mean you have to hate everything he does.

Funsterdelux

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Just putting it out - is it time to ban running in public?

Put it back in

cameramonkey

Xertz wrote: »

This is probably the most rapid rollout and up scaling of this kind of testing that has ever been done in any country ever in history. Doctors, scientists, technicians and engineers across most countries are pulling out all the stops and have achieved a hell of a lot in a very short time.

I think we need to get our heads around why there are capacity issues and how overcoming them by snapping fingers isn’t really possible. There are serious technical limits in terms of access to capacity - equipment (lead time in deliveries, lack of availability globally), pressure on getting access to chemicals and other items due to unprecedented global demand.

Also no country has vast amounts of this kind of stuff sitting around doing nothing for years.

There are going to be delays and rolling out population wide testing is taking time and also needing development of rapid test kits. What’s been produced to date has not proven to be very reliable - see what happened in Spain with the volume of Chinese made test kits that were purchased and turned out to be very inaccurate and that’s happened elsewhere too.

All any of us can be is realistic about what’s possible.

There seems to be a number of new posters who just parrot the government and FG line. They then just give likes to each other. They will not tolerate any criticisms of the HSE response and at least one seems to work for the HSE.


Who do you work for?

Rob A. Bank

eagle eye wrote: »

All that you quoted was his response to the ban on non-essential flights from China so its exactly what he was talking about.
And just so you know, that's how it was reported everywhere including CNN at the time. Most agreed with him too.

His so called 'ban' allowed over 40,000 travelers from China into the US in the 2 months after he decreed it.

And it was his RECORD that Biden commented about... difficulty reading with those eagle eyes ? :rolleyes:

is_that_so

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How is it unilateral? Most countries put in place restrictions. Even China now bans all but its own citizens from travelling there. Many countries have similar policies.

As for coordinated response, see the lack of one in the EU. They couldn't agree to ground flights, to they let them continue. That was a catastrophic mistake.

This is still coming up 15 threads later. It is not an EU competency. They can only do as they have done and block travel into the EU. WHO don't agree with your categorisation of a mistake. It is more likely to be the other measures at work, social distancing etc. their research suggests.

Mwengwe

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Just putting it out - is it time to ban running in public?

Should be banned on footpaths imo. Anywhere where people can't reasonably avoid your droplet cloud

smelly sock

is_that_so wrote: »

They are the only block of numbers who can give it a go and this possibility emerged in pre-virus times.

No.

Sinn Fein would have had enough numbers with either FF or FG to from a coalition.

smelly sock

smelly sock wrote: »

Fine Gael / Fail being snakey and sly using the Covid crisis to go into partnership together.

No doubt Martin will see that Covid was unforeseen and that's why he has gone into Govt with FG.

Sneaky bastard, creating coronavirus in a teapot in mount street to fulfil his life long ambition of going into coalition with FG. Who knew!

A government needs to be formed, especially now. I don't see anyone else stepping up to the mark. And when all is said and done, vast majority of the irish electorate voted for Centrist parties or independents

timmy_mallet

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is there a point to this? I could only listen to four minutes of the rambling.

I've been googling "retrick", but nothing.

Iamabeliever

Beasty wrote: »

Why?

Speaking from experience - i always seem to run past someone , the second they decide to cough!

Seems silly but running on public footpaths causes unwanted contact for both runners and walkers. Everyone needs patience at this time but is there an alternative?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Mwengwe wrote: »

Should be banned on footpaths imo. Anywhere where people can't reasonably avoid your droplet cloud

Oh my god, your username. I get the reference. :cool:

wakka12

A twenty year old with known underlying conditions in England has died

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-651-covid-19-deaths-in-hospitals-in-england-11973506

NHS England said another 651 coronavirus patients had died in hospitals in England, taking its total to 11,656.

Patients were aged between 20 and 101, and 20 of those (aged 20 to 101) had no known underlying health conditions when they tested positive for coronavirus.

is_that_so

smelly sock wrote: »

No.

Sinn Fein would have had enough numbers with either FF or FG to from a coalition.

As I said they were the only ones had numbers and able to deal. Just having seats doesn't qualify you, if it did it would be an ABFFFG government of nearly 90.

timmy_mallet

Mwengwe wrote: »

Should be banned on footpaths imo. Anywhere where people can't reasonably avoid your droplet cloud

Everything should be banned, imo. Too much risk with anything. Anything to be said for banning everything risky?

rameire

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Just putting it out - is it time to ban running in public?

Would I be allowed to fastwalk?

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How is it unilateral? Most countries put in place restrictions. Even China now bans all but its own citizens from travelling there. Many countries have similar policies.

As for coordinated response, see the lack of one in the EU. They couldn't agree to ground flights, to they let them continue. That was a catastrophic mistake.

Trump banned flights from China to suit his own trade war with China. Covid 19 was just the excuse. Up until mid march he repeatedly stated that it was no threat whatsoever.

And one of the reasons for the lack f a global response is Trumps unilateral stance on everything/ Unilateral by the way doesn't mean no one else acted, it means action was taken irregardless of what anyone else was doing.

tobefrank321

Taiwan certainly didn't think the WHO were doing a good job.

In response to WHO’s denial that Taiwan ever alerted it to the possibility of human-to-human transmission of COVID-19, the Central Epidemic Command Center makes the following statement today, April 11:
The Taiwan Centers for Disease Control (Taiwan CDC) learned from online sources that there had been at least seven cases of atypical pneumonia in Wuhan, China. In China, the term “atypical pneumonia” is commonly used to refer to SARS, a disease transmitted between humans caused by coronavirus.

Owing to its experience with the SARS epidemic in 2003, Taiwan vigilantly kept track of information about the new outbreak. On December 31, 2019, Taiwan sent an email to the International Health Regulations (IHR) focal point under the World Health Organization (WHO), informing WHO of its understanding of the disease and also requesting further information from WHO. Given the lack of clarity at the time, as well as the many rumors that were circulating, Taiwan’s aim was to ensure that all relevant parties remained alert, especially since the outbreak occurred just before the Lunar New Year holiday, which typically sees tremendous amounts of travel. To be prudent, in the email we took pains to refer to atypical pneumonia, and specifically noted that patients had been isolated for treatment. Public health professionals could discern from this wording that there was a real possibility of human-to-human transmission of the disease. However, because at the time there were as yet no cases of the disease in Taiwan, we could not state directly and conclusively that there had been human-to-human transmission.

The Taiwan CDC also contacted the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention in a bid to obtain more information. However, in response to our inquiries, the WHO IHR focal point only responded with a short message stating that Taiwan’s information had been forwarded to expert colleagues; China provided only a press release.

Even though Taiwan strongly suspected that human-to-human transmission of the disease was already occurring at the time, we were unable to gain confirmation through existing channels. Therefore, on the day the aforementioned email was sent to WHO, the Taiwan government activated enhanced border control and quarantine measures based on the assumption that human-to-human transmission was in fact occurring. These measures included screening passengers on flights from Wuhan prior to disembarkation.

In mid-January, the Taiwan CDC dispatched experts to Wuhan to gain a better understanding of the epidemic, the control measures taken there, and patients’ exposure history. Based on preliminary research, Taiwan determined that this form of pneumonia could indeed spread via human-to-human transmission.

https://www.cdc.gov.tw/En/Bulletin/Detail/PAD-lbwDHeN_bLa-viBOuw?typeid=158

And here is the WHO advising against travel bans.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-who/who-chief-says-widespread-travel-bans-not-needed-to-beat-china-virus-idUSKBN1ZX1H3


It couldn't be clearer that the WHO attempted to cover up the seriousness of covid 19 in the early weeks.

is_that_so

Mwengwe wrote: »

Should be banned on footpaths imo. Anywhere where people can't reasonably avoid your droplet cloud

So that should put you on the road too. How could this be enforced save by brave citizens going postal off their own bat?

cameramonkey

wakka12 wrote: »

A twenty year old with known underlying conditions in England has died

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-another-651-covid-19-deaths-in-hospitals-in-england-11973506

They often say no known condition and then find out later there was a condition. Also many of the photos of people who are young who die show that they are in many cases obese.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How is it unilateral? Most countries put in place restrictions. Even China now bans all but its own citizens from travelling there. Many countries have similar policies.

As for coordinated response, see the lack of one in the EU. They couldn't agree to ground flights, to they let them continue. That was a catastrophic mistake.

You have 128 posts with the word 'flights' contained within. Do you maybe think people might have got your point by now?

timmy_mallet

rameire wrote: »

Would I be allowed to fastwalk?

Depends on your max KM/H. Speed limits for footpaths.

Iamabeliever

rameire wrote: »

Would I be allowed to fastwalk?

Up for review

Iamabeliever

rameire wrote: »

Would I be allowed to fastwalk?

Up for review

tobefrank321

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You have 128 posts with the word 'flights' contained within. Do you maybe think people might have got your point by now?

128 out of close to 1000 posts.

Did you go through all 1000 posts to make this point? Sad if so.