Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

Rvsmmnps

Azatadine wrote: »

Its one thing that should always be made clear. Asymptomatic versus pre-symptomatic. Big difference.

Did they find sick people on the street?

ricero

fin12 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/the-numbers-are-being-fudged-says-nurse-who-brands-testing-regime-an-omnishambles-994236.html

Testing regime a shambles.

****ing hell this is a disaster. The government indecision and lack of decisiveness has ****ed this country one last time.

Longing

Still waiting Day 20.

Iamabeliever

wakka12 wrote: »

Well most people wouldnt, but in the case of the Boston homeless shelter they tested everybody regardless of symptoms or lack there of

Hmm doesn't make sense unless they were also performing some sort of antibody test too

D.Q

ricero wrote: »

****ing hell this is a disaster. The government indecision and lack of decisiveness has ****ed this country one last time.

So dramatic.

Bubbaclaus

fin12 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/the-numbers-are-being-fudged-says-nurse-who-brands-testing-regime-an-omnishambles-994236.html

Testing regime a shambles.

Anecdotes from a nurse being treated as breaking news?

xabi

Rvsmmnps wrote: »

Did they find sick people on the street?

Read the link provided.

Laois_Man

Seen lots of talk as to whether or not a recovered Covid19 person can get reinfected. The definitive answer is still that there is no definitive answer.

Per CNN

A total of 141 people who had apparently recovered from Covid-19 have tested positive again, South Korea's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) said on Thursday.

KCDC deputy director Kwon Joon-wook said the agency did not know what caused the people to retest positive and was investigating.

Most experts think it's unlikely that somebody will be re-infected for the coronavirus soon after recovering. It's possible that issues with testing – or varying amounts of viral RNA in the body, which the tests look for – could explain why people tested positive after testing negative.

Kwon also said that the government is studying cultivated samples from the patients to determine whether the cases could be contagious. Kwon said the study will take about two weeks from today.

“Our KCDC workers are working day and night to collect samples and conduct studies,” Kwon said

Rvsmmnps

Rvsmmnps wrote: »

Totals from all illnesses effected by various strains of corona virus will show increase come the end of the year

Which strains? The 4 that cause 10 to 15% of common colds? SARS? MERS? SARS COV2? Because they are the only known human coronavirus and only 1 of those is currently endemic and causing large numbers of deaths

MrMusician18

fin12 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/the-numbers-are-being-fudged-says-nurse-who-brands-testing-regime-an-omnishambles-994236.html

Testing regime a shambles.

What awful reporting. One anonymous source, with an opinion based on one community hospital in the Midlands. When will the examiner interview me?

Mary could be a clown or she could simply be a person with a grudge.

Kermit.de.frog

ZX7R wrote: »

Spain have only reported 2157 new cases
And 318 new deaths today April 16

This is incorrect. These are the figures today (as I stated earlier).

https://twitter.com/BloombergAsia/status/1250748154208825344

551 fatalities and 5,183 new cases.

gabeeg

gabeeg wrote: »

To be fair, Trump has history of closing borders with countries for purely xenophobic and racist reasons.
I think it was the same in this case - he was just doing something xenophobic to pander to his base, and accidentally bought the country time to fight the virus.

Time which he subsequently squandered. The idiot.

could not have put it better myself

wakka12

Deaths dropping in Iran slightly, two consecutive days of deaths below 100, the first two days for deaths to drop below 100 in about 5 or 6 weeks

Azatadine

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Why would you get tested pre symptoms

Asymptomatic may have the virus but not show symptoms at any stage but pre-symptomatic may have the virus and not currently show symptoms but could go on to develop them.

Laois_Man

That Irish times article is a bit ridiculous

She said: “So the 1,500 people announced as new cases last week, with those tests having happened in March, we were dealing with those people in hospital two weeks ago. And still we were told that the numbers are low. It’s really bad. What the public is being told isn’t true.”

It was never hidden that there was a backlog of tests awaiting results! :rolleyes:

growleaves

Leo lifts the lockdown:

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

This really is one of the most important studies on covid 19 so far imo.

https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/14/coronavirus-boston-homeless-testing

146 homeless in a shelter showed up positive, the vast majority asymptomatic.

Its likely a small number got it in the community and then spread it widely in the centre. You'd wonder why so many are asymptomatic, was it due to a reduced viral load. It also appears to counter the argument that there is a genetic element to why some people get a severe reaction to covid 19 and some don't.

On the otherhand, you'd imagine there are a large number of smokers and drinkers among the homeless, but obesity would not be a major issue.

With no hope of a vaccine any time soon, if we could reproduce the Boston homeless shelter outcome with a large number of people being asymptomatic this might be one way forward. Its not like we have many other options.

While their lifestyles may not be good, the homeless probably have a good degree of base fitness due to spending a lot of time on their feet, walking. I wonder how VO2 max for asymptomatic / mild / severe cases compares

Drumpot

gabeeg wrote: »

To be fair, Trump has history of closing borders with countries for purely xenophobic and racist reasons.
I think it was the same in this case - he was just doing something xenophobic to pander to his base, and accidentally bought the country time to fight the virus.

Time which he subsequently squandered. The idiot.

I agree completely with this narrative.

In terms of trying to work out a persons motive or reasons for doing something , which is more likely. That Donald Trump was ahead of the world curve in taking decisive action with regards to China but horribly behind the curve in everything else to do with this virus. Or he opportunistically closed down planes to/from China for some other reason.

Considering he is a compulsive liar, that his presidency is defined with him basically trying to chastise those who disagree with him, bullying those who question his actions and he regularly employes tactics to deflect attention away from his Mistakes, I’d say any logical , non partisan person can work out which is more likely to be the case with regards to Trumps motives that led to his China call in January actually helping...

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

While their lifestyles may not be good, the homeless probably have a good degree of base fitness due to spending a lot of time on their feet, walking. I wonder how VO2 max for asymptomatic / mild / severe cases compares

I’d also wonder if the “healthier homeless” people actually have stronger immune systems to the comparative pampered housed people. Being exposed to more germs and tough conditions may increase your chances of becoming ill but on the flip side you would also think they may alternatively harden you more to these sort of situations.

tobefrank321

rossie1977 wrote: »

Biden never said that. Biden said stopping flights and building a wall won't stop the virus which is correct especially after horse had bolted. Italy were the first country on Earth to ban flights from China...

The xenophobic/fear mongering had nothing to do with China, that was something else and used by right wing pundits and Trumps campaign ads https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trump-campaigns-misleading-ad-attacking-biden-on-china/

Taiwan viewed it differently and stopping air travel was an important weapon in their fight against covid 19. Did it stop the spread to Taiwan? Of course not. But it massively slowed down the spread there to manageable levels, where they could test the limited numbers quickly, isolate them quickly and contact trace quickly. The result was 395 cases and 6 deaths. They wouldn't even allow travellers off flights from Wuhan until they had at least been temperature screened.

A huge difference to the laissez faire attitude in the rest of the world where you could exit through airport arrivals with no checks.

You eventually stop this by slowing it down to manageable levels. Taiwan certainly didn't take the view it was unstoppable. They threw everything at it including before they even had a problem.

bekker

bekker wrote: »

A recipe for blinker thinking, and unbalanced decision making.

What is necessary in a minister is the ability to seek advice from a variety of sources, balance that advice in line with his/her responsibilities, and make decisions. Then ensure that the policies developed by his/her ministry is consistent with those decisions and implement in full without the deviations desired by his officials, and there are always deviations desired by officials.

Ministers are in a constant struggle to have funds allocated, encourage/press officials to go beyond their silos, and ensure co-operation and co-ordination across departments. An individual possessing the qualities to implement the forgoing is what is required, irrespective of formal training or experience.

From a historical perspective ministers who have been put in charge of ministries allied to their speciality have a less than stellar record.

I think you will find no examples in my hypothetical list of people assigned to their field.

Strumms

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Trump Signature going on cheque, and him in full Crown and King attire

He's one crazy dude.

Trump ? That’s Johnny Giles ! Weird assed times ! :eek:

ZX7R

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is incorrect. These are the figures today (as I stated earlier).

https://twitter.com/BloombergAsia/status/1250748154208825344

551 fatalities and 5,183 new cases.

Official from the
Gobiernno de espana
Government released figures
2156 new cases
318 new deaths

Gods Gift

Drivin through town on me tractor today, and only a handful of good lookin wimen our walking gettin suntanned. Usually there’d be loads.
Very disappointed.

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

While their lifestyles may not be good, the homeless probably have a good degree of base fitness due to spending a lot of time on their feet, walking. I wonder how VO2 max for asymptomatic / mild / severe cases compares

I think what it proves is there no genetic pre disposition to severe symptoms, as one study in the US is trying to determine.

After that, yes, you'd want to see what sets these homeless people apart. It has been suggested for example that children in cleaner homes are more susceptible to infections than those from less clean ones, as their immune systems have not had to fight off as many attacks.

It seems like homeless people might be in that sweet spot - not usually too obese or unlikely to have major underlying conditions related to weight such as diabetes. Strong immune systems but not overly strong that it produces an over-reaction.

Kilboor

http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-review-to-be-launched-into-why-ethnic-minorities-worst-hit-by-covid-19-11974116

Interesting that this is affecting relatively wealthy minorities.

I have no statistics on the UK but I believe in the US it's the same story amongst minorities especially in New Orleans however in the UKs case we are not talking about poverty being the main factor.

is_that_so

Laois_Man wrote: »

That Irish times article is a bit ridiculous



It was never hidden that there was a backlog of tests awaiting results! :rolleyes:

That would be the George Lee school of mathematics!

PokeHerKing

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sorry for speculating. I linked to nature. Of course its origin doesn't really change much for us as we are where we are now. I was reprimanded for using the term airborne early on. HSE reports showing transmission in some clusters as being airborne. I will cease and desist until such a time that it is proven.

We've known its been airborne since January, similar to influenza. Ebola = not airborne. COVID19=airborne.

I had similar arguments with some posters at the very beginning of these threads. They went on the ignore list pretty quick.

nacho libre

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Strong immune systems but not overly strong that it produces an over-reaction.

I thought it would be the opposite. That those who tend to be heavy drinkers would have weakened immune systems.

Kermit.de.frog

ZX7R wrote: »

Official from the
Gobiernno de espana
Government released figures
2156 new cases
318 new deaths

That is until 9 pm yesterday, half the 24 hour period.

The data is complete as of 7 am (see table 6 in your link)

The complete official figures are released at 11 am each morning and are as I said.

Wombatman

Laois_Man wrote: »

That Irish times article is a bit ridiculous



It was never hidden that there was a backlog of tests awaiting results! :rolleyes:

Irish Examiner right?

is_that_so

Wombatman wrote: »

Irish Examiner right?

Mary could be moonlighting for both in her downtime from nursing, public health management and amateur virology.

tobefrank321

Longing wrote: »

Still waiting Day 20.

Unlikely to be the only one. I suspect our total number of cases is close to the deaths x 100 rule of thumb which is about 44,000 cases, many of them asymptomatic.

RugbyLad11

rossie1977 wrote: »

Biden never said that. Biden said stopping flights and building a wall won't stop the virus which is correct especially after horse had bolted. Italy were the first country on Earth to ban flights from China...

The xenophobic/fear mongering had nothing to do with China, that was something else and used by right wing pundits and Trumps campaign ads https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trump-campaigns-misleading-ad-attacking-biden-on-china/

Italy is also in mainland Europe and part of schengen area, so all people had to do is fly into another EU country and walk or get a train across the border

tobefrank321

nacho libre wrote: »

I thought it would be the opposite. That those who tend to be heavy drinkers would have weakened immune systems.

I'm not sure of the link between heavy drinkers and immune systems.

Funnily enough we all know heavy drinkers who never come down with anything. And also perfectly healthy non or light drinkers who are floored by a flu every year and also covid19.

TheValeyard

Was the link to the HSE map posted here? Can't seem to find it.

nacho libre

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'm not sure of the link between heavy drinkers and immune systems.

Funnily enough we all know heavy drinkers who never come down with anything. .

I would say they are rare enough. My friend's father, who smoked a pipe and drank heavily, is still going at 83, but he is not in good health, yet he has survived much longer than some people who were clean living.

Still I don't know too many heavy drinkers that last well into their eighties. Maybe some folks, like the man i described above, are born with extra t cells or something that enable them to live longer no matter what they put in their body.

Roberto_gas

TheValeyard wrote: »

Was the link to the HSE map posted here? Can't seem to find it.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-daily-operations-20-00-15-april-2020.pdf

1641

The Office for National Statistics indictes that 3,912 people died with Coronavirus in England and Wales up until 31st March. The DOH figures had indicated there were 2,226 deaths up until the same date (deaths only included for hospital settings). So the real figure for England and Wales was about 75% higher than the official daily figures.
There is no reason to doubt that this is any different today. Applying that to the 12,868 figure for today on Worldometer would suggest the real number of deaths in the UK is closer to 22,600.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-more-than-1-600-covid-19-linked-deaths-outside-of-hospitals-in-england-and-wales-in-march-11974052

Strumms

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'm not sure of the link between heavy drinkers and immune systems.

Funnily enough we all know heavy drinkers who never come down with anything. And also perfectly healthy non or light drinkers who are floored by a flu every year and also covid19.

In a very heavy drinker and a person who has been a heavy drinker for a significant duration a compromised immune system is likely. The link between a heavy drinker and a compromised immune system is very well documented, I had this conversation with a doctor friend of mine weeks ago...

https://www.recoveryways.com/rehab-blog/how-does-alcohol-affect-your-immune-system/

Lung issues, cognitive issues, many cancers just to name a few problems.

RebelButtMunch

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'm not sure of the link between heavy drinkers and immune systems.

Funnily enough we all know heavy drinkers who never come down with anything. And also perfectly healthy non or light drinkers who are floored by a flu every year and also covid19.

They are definitely not healthier

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/homeless-people-have-an-average-lifespan-of-just-42-422638.html

Red Silurian

Just thinking, if it took 3 weeks for Mary Lou McDonald to get her results then I assume the daily updates we get are from up to 3 weeks ago? Ie the start of the lockdown?

crossman47

colmtheperson wrote: »

Just thinking, if it took 3 weeks for Mary Lou McDonald to get her results then I assume the daily updates we get are from up to 3 weeks ago? Ie the start of the lockdown?

You assume wrong. Its a lot quicker now.

is_that_so

colmtheperson wrote: »

Just thinking, if it took 3 weeks for Mary Lou McDonald to get her results then I assume the daily updates we get are from up to 3 weeks ago? Ie the start of the lockdown?

Not now, they seem close to being up to date on testing and results. Plans for a max 48 hour turnaround are coming once the testing system is fully in place.

Amirani

fin12 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/the-numbers-are-being-fudged-says-nurse-who-brands-testing-regime-an-omnishambles-994236.html

Testing regime a shambles.

The anonymous nurse seems a bit confused. She wants us to report people as positive before they have a test result? Seems a bit unscientific.

MrMusician18

I think everyone should remember that every new case you hear from now is because two people did not observe the rules of lockdown, social distancing, hand hygiene and cough etiquette.

Iamabeliever

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I think everyone should remember that every new case you hear from now is because two people did not observe the rules of lockdown, social distancing, hand hygiene and cough etiquette.

And not breathing

Longing

is_that_so wrote: »

Not now, they seem close to being up to date on testing and results. Plans for a max 48 hour turnaround are coming once the testing system is fully in place.

Results for health care workers yes. But for normal joe so's on the street. Still 3 weeks.

RebelButtMunch

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I think everyone should remember that every new case you hear from now is because two people did not observe the rules of lockdown, social distancing, hand hygiene and cough etiquette.

Or just one person.... i.e the jogger that ran past me the other day and practically brushed against my shoulder.

tobefrank321

Amirani wrote: »

The anonymous nurse seems a bit confused. She wants us to report people as positive before they have a test result? Seems a bit unscientific.

Not really. The government have been advising something similar, to presume you are positive if you have symptoms.

Also Dr. Holohan mentioned yesterday evening that some doctors are reporting deaths as likely caused by covid 19 before test results come back.

"Mary" is saying that the real number of cases is far higher than the official one. We all know this to be true. Even Nolan and Holohan admitted it, that for every 5 confirmed cases, there is at least another 5 unconfirmed ones.