Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

ACitizenErased

There's a letter circulating about pubs being closed until September 1st. I'm guessing it's fake, but looks pretty convincing for those who wouldn't be aware.

quokula

MrMusician18 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

How is it still getting into homes?
Oh yeah, people agree bringing it. We've been weeks in lockdown, all those home cases should have worked themselves out by now.

The homes still need to be staffed, the residents still need to be cared for, food and other supplies need to be brought in, maintenance needs to occur. There are many ways for it to get in without people ignoring the rules.

Hand hygiene, PPE and other precautions should all minimise the risk of course but short of everyone wearing full respirator outfits and scaring the residents to death nothing is completely foolproof.

BanditLuke

ACitizenErased wrote: »

There's a letter circulating about pubs being closed until September 1st. I'm guessing it's fake, but looks pretty convincing for those who wouldn't be aware.

Can't see that being true. They'll be lucky to open this year again tbh.

growleaves

Can't see that being true. They'll be lucky to open this year again tbh.

On that timescale most of them will be gone.

Hope the replacements aren't all UK-owner chain pubs like Wetherspoons.

is_that_so

https://twitter.com/sandra_hurley/status/1250794679144251392

Azatadine

I don't think pubs will open again this year either. Restaurants may open later in the year with social distancing set ups but pubs, no.

expectationlost

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Lidl was crammed today, families and couples shopping together, lads queuing for a few cans, social distance of about 2 feet. People aren't taking the restrictions seriously in this country

lidl managers fault

was it portmarnock?

https://twitter.com/ArleneJCock/status/1250799049646714880

cork street ?
https://twitter.com/MichelleAMKC/status/1250780739089678337

Rathfarnham
https://twitter.com/RoisinMcGarr/status/1250707300026851328

castlebar
https://twitter.com/lidl_ireland/status/1250756152469618689

FVP3

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Lidl was crammed today, families and couples shopping together, lads queuing for a few cans, social distance of about 2 feet. People aren't taking the restrictions seriously in this country

You keep repeating this, everywhere is crammed. Nothing on social media, or anybody else's experience confirms this.

When I shop the queues go around the block, not because theres all that many in the queues but because the people are observing 2-3 metres.

And why is lidl "packed". Are they leaving too many people in?

Dr. Bre

ACitizenErased wrote: »

There's a letter circulating about pubs being closed until September 1st. I'm guessing it's fake, but looks pretty convincing for those who wouldn't be aware.

Is it going around what’s app?

MrMusician18

Deleted User wrote: »

what people need to understand is that the measures put in place were never expected to stop all transmission, but to reduce the opportunities for infection by >90%. If we do that R0 will drop below 1, cases will decline, and restrictions can be eased in a controlled manner.

100% prevention of transmission of a virus like SARS COV-2 is not possible as some people need to still get to work to keep the lights on, keep food in the supermarkets, collect the rubbish, among many other essential services, not least the huge amount of people in healthcare. This is where cases are coming from

No it's not. 60% of transmission is in the community, or in other words, they don't know where these people caught it. It means people are not coughing into their elbows, they are touching dirty surfaces then touching their face, it means that are not keeping distance.

While I agree that 100% prevention of transmission of a disease like covid isn't possible at this point (it was possible much earlier in the epidemic btw) - simply because people are not willing or able to abide by the strict conditions necessary to prevent spread.

R0 will not drop below 1 until there is a vaccine or the infected isolate properly, people follow the rules at all times or it burns its way through the community.

I've never understood the reluctance for society to take the blame for the crises it itself creates. It's always the government or some other institutions, never the community, which of course, though the sum of many small negligences is where the real blame lies.

ceadaoin.

growleaves wrote: »

It could be the humidity in the air rather than the temp

Its not just temperature. Its more to do with the UV index. For example, its been warm and sunny where I am lately, up into the mid 20s. But the sun itself isn't that strong yet despite it being warm. I can go out without sunscreen because I wouldn't burn the same way I would in the summer. Its a good time to get my vitamin d up because it will be 40+ degrees in a couple of months.

Probably the same applies to Spain where it is still spring. High levels of UV kill viruses on surfaces so that's why its expected that summer will help to reduce the spread, even in Ireland where it might not be hot, the UV index is still high during those months. UV and heat in combination with extremes at either end of the humidity scale are theorized to not make conditions ideal for the virus to live in droplets for very long.

tobefrank321

I think we have two choices come May 5th. There is probably no point going for a holding middle ground until a vaccine comes along which realistically could be 12-18 months away at the earliest.

1. Enforce the lockdown even more - go for an Wuhan/Hong Kong/Taiwan attempt at eliminating it completely. This might mean two whole months of extreme measures, far more extreme than anything so far - also includes shutting the NI border, shutting down all civilian air traffic and particularly shutting down civilian traffic on ferries (we know from the Birr funeral what a joke the ferry issue is). Isolate away from their familes all positive cases, use mobile phone location to track cases, etc

2. Lift the lockdown and let it run its course - cocooning as best we can for the next year those in the vulnerable categories and identifying as best we can those most susceptible such as those in the obese or diabetes categories. Let everyone else return to work. Even encourage the spread with the renewal of sports events and the likes - aim for gradually increasing herd immunity in the longer term.

The holding pattern we are in right now is just not sustainable from an economic or social point of view. It has to be one of the options I mentioned, either go for more restrictions to try stamp it out fully and after that restrict and quarantine visitors to the country, or else allow it run its course.

Mic 1972

is_that_so wrote: »

Look forward to your research paper on this. General thinking on SARS is that it burnt itself out, far too virulent and killed 1 in 10.

Plenty of info on the web to support that. SARS and MERS burnt out to do containment and as you said inability for the virus to spread too much because it killed too many too quickly

The weather isn't going to kill Covid19

podgeandrodge

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Just heard there is new memos going around in the HSE today the community spread is huge and the restrictions aren't working.

They are calling vulnerable people who aren't over 70 encouraging them to cocoon.

Amirani wrote: »

This isn't true.

Unfortunately it appears to be true. I found the memo floating around myself. :eek:;)

Curious_Case

BanditLuke wrote: »

Can't see that being true. They'll be lucky to open this year again tbh.

September 1st is a very long way away, I would expect pubs to be open before then.

Lots can happen in May, June, July & August and we're still in April

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

There's a letter circulating about pubs being closed until September 1st. I'm guessing it's fake, but looks pretty convincing for those who wouldn't be aware.

I see retail reopening soon enough, tradespeople going about their business, restrictions on movement and domestic holidaying being relaxed, and coffee shops and cafes opening (with limited seating). And hopefully all that happens soon, with the backdrop of mask wearing and hygiene standards.

But for the life of me I can’t see how pubs can possibly reopen before all the above has happened and the numbers of new infections are negligible. So probably not this year. That (fake) letter is too ambitious

Mic 1972

FVP3 wrote: »

You keep repeating this, everywhere is crammed. Nothing on social media, or anybody else's experience confirms this.

When I shop the queues go around the block, not because theres all that many in the queues but because the people are observing 2-3 metres.

And why is lidl "packed". Are they leaving too many people in?

I repeat what i see, I was in LIDL today and what i saw has little to do with safety. Lock down means 1 person going shopping per house hold, no couples or families. Also doing a big shopping versus doing small repeated visits to the shop.

People should keep 2 mt distance while queuing at the till but when the queues get long people start moving around and you find someone right next to you peeking over to the next till looking for a shorter queue.
This is all very unsafe, honestly I'm hoping for proper restrictions to be implemented for a couple of weeks or maybe 1 full month

FVP3

BanditLuke wrote: »

I see there is now some traction behind the bio lab in Wuhan explanation. Interesting times.

The traction is Trump and Pompeo mouthing off from whatever fever swamp of neo-con propaganda they are reading.

Now that Trump has started to believe this, fewer people will. He is clearly deflecting.

By the way if it was a lab, why not the US?

https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-further-evidence-virus-originated-us/5706078

But it wasn't a lab:

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

smelly sock

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I think we have two choices come May 5th. There is absolutely no point going for a holding middle ground.

1. Enforce the lockdown even more - go for an Wuhan/Hong Kong/Taiwan attempt at eliminating it completely. This might mean two whole months of extreme measures, far more extreme than anything so far - also includes shutting the NI border, shutting down all civilian air traffic and particularly shutting down civilian traffic on ferries (we know from the Birr funeral what a joke the ferry issue is. Isolate away form their familes all positives, use mobile phone location to track cases, etc

2. Lift the lockdown and let it run its course - cocooning as best we can for the next year those in the vulnerable categories and identifying as best we can those most susceptible such as those in the obese or diabetes categories. Let everyone else return to work. Even encourage the spread with the renewal of sports events and the likes - aim for herd immunity in the longer term.

The holding pattern we are in right now is just not sustainable from an economic or social point of view. It has to be one of the options I mentioned, either go for more restrictions to try stamp it out fully and after that restrict and quarantine visitors to the country, or else allow it run its course.

Wow. I wouldn't agree with point 1. I think come the 5th there will see a considerable and controller lifting of restrictions to allow the Economy to start to function again.

I'd agree with point 2. Come the 5th of May we need to keep protecting the Vulnerable. I think this can be done in tandem with a controlled lifting of restrictions.

Pubs and the hospitality businesses have to remain closed until further notice. I feel for everyone affected but that but there is just no way they can reopen until we are clear of Covid.

Anyone who can work remotely should continue to do so.

Building sites should reopen and they should continue with social distancing measures. Perhaps the different trades could rotate the days they work etc.

The like of the retail parks should reopen again with strict restrictions. It is all doable and can be successful along with keeping the new cases down.

This current lockdown won't be forced on us after the 5th of May that we know. It's up to the Govt. how much the Economy and people suffer from here on in. A balance needs to be struck. There is no point people coming on here talking about the sunrise and andrea Bocelli giving them a lift and all the vulnerable people they know and all that ****e if we don't have something to return to in terms of living standards.

People can argue that I'm being inhumane that's fine. But there is a practical element to this and people have every right to protect their income and job.

FVP3

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I repeat what i see, I was in LIDL today and what i saw has little to do with safety. Lock down means 1 person going shopping per house hold, no couples or families. Also doing a big shopping versus doing small repeated visits to the shop.

People should keep 2 mt distance while queuing at the till but when the queues get long people start moving around and you find someone right next to you peeking over to the next till looking for a shorter queue.
This is all very unsafe, honestly I'm hoping for proper restrictioIns to be implemented for a couple of weeks or maybe 1 full month

I repeat what I see everywhere, nothing like that. Theres so few people in the supermarket I go to the tills are mostly empty. Most people are outside.

Best we can say is that you are incredibly unlucky everytime you go out.

Take a picture next time.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

There's a letter circulating about pubs being closed until September 1st. I'm guessing it's fake, but looks pretty convincing for those who wouldn't be aware.

If its not attributable to an individual or reliable source, i find it best to ignore all these

smelly sock

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I repeat what i see, I was in LIDL today and what i saw has little to do with safety. Lock down means 1 person going shopping per house hold, no couples or families. Also doing a big shopping versus doing small repeated visits to the shop.

People should keep 2 mt distance while queuing at the till but when the queues get long people start moving around and you find someone right next to you peeking over to the next till looking for a shorter queue.
This is all very unsafe, honestly I'm hoping for proper restrictions to be implemented for a couple of weeks or maybe 1 full month

Look its the lockdown police.

May be very valid reasons as to why more than one person from a household has to go shopping.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

https://twitter.com/sandra_hurley/status/1250794679144251392

sounds entirely reasonable

Mic 1972

FVP3 wrote: »

I repeat what I see everywhere, nothing like that. Theres so few people in the supermarket I go to the tills are mostly empty. Most people are outside.

Best we can say is that you are incredibly unlucky everytime you go out.

Take a picture next time.

Sounds like you going out a lot too if you see this everywhere, I think i got my answer already

Azatadine

Azatadine wrote: »

I don't think pubs will open again this year either. Restaurants may open later in the year with social distancing set ups but pubs, no.

Micheal McDowell's cafe bar idea may finally come in to its own

Hobgoblin11

Trump will reopen the US today for business, comeback kid

Richard Hillman

My local tesco are doing well in limiting numbers but I did notice this week that there were a few couples knocking about. It is completely unnecessary for 2 able bodied people to be shopping. Standards are slipping. N

Mic 1972

Richard Hillman wrote: »

My local tesco are doing well in limiting numbers but I did notice this week that there were a few couples knocking about. It is completely unnecessary for 2 able bodied people to be shopping. Standards are slipping. N

Yep they are and it's too soon for that

Larbre34

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Oh So weather has actually very little impact on transmission?

for Ebola? Nope. Lifestyle, traditions and physical environment.

SleetAndSnow

I saw that pub letter, total bs. Office of an taoiseach, signed Tony Halohan? He's in the department of health. One I saw has the letter open in Word aswell..

auspicious

[Deleted User] wrote: »

want to see if your neighbour has it?

( re. HSE cases map )
No thanks. I'm not part of that posse. I'm sure if one spends considerable time on this thread one's response can be a little short on occasion.

Surely if the HSE has gone to the trouble of compiling and releasing the map it would not be distributed to the media alone but made widely available to the public also.
If it is a public resource I am entitled to view it at my leisure.
If you have a link or such would you be so kind as to provide it?

Kermit.de.frog

If anyone wants to know the weather for the foreseeable future...

Mic 1972

smelly sock wrote: »

Look its the lockdown police.

May be very valid reasons as to why more than one person from a household has to go shopping.

There is no reason for a couple or a family of 3 to go shopping together. Nobody enjoys the lockdown, we are following specific rules for our own safety not for fun

statto25

Two friends of mine got results back today after over 2 weeks waiting, both negative in the same area but different doctors. I wasnt in direct contact with them obviously to see how sick they were but according to both their doctors, they are hugely surprised at the negative result and one GP commented that most of the results sent back in one particular batch were negative. I dont want to put on my tinfoil hat but but one of these people has a serious medical condition and was sick for over 3 weeks and still isnt 100% so I cant believe they didnt come back as a positive.

Larbre34

Richard Hillman wrote: »

My local tesco are doing well in limiting numbers but I did notice this week that there were a few couples knocking about. It is completely unnecessary for 2 able bodied people to be shopping. Standards are slipping. N

How do you know how able bodied they are? People don't advertise hidden conditions on a tag around their neck, and we haven't quite reached conditions that they need to.

So long as the stores are metering the total number of people inside the actual shop, it doesn't matter a whole lot if its one or two people from the same household that are there together. In fact it may get them in and out quite a bit quicker. My own anecdotal evidence would be that standards are if anything being reinforced.

McDermotX

Richard Hillman wrote: »

My local tesco are doing well in limiting numbers but I did notice this week that there were a few couples knocking about. It is completely unnecessary for 2 able bodied people to be shopping. Standards are slipping. N

Yep......was only down in the local one earlier. Too many husband and wife duos waiting in the queue outside, along with a group of 4 teen girls (under 20 years of age anyway) trying to walk in at the same time with each other.

Of course, said group are let in one at a time, before regrouping inside to presumably form a Covid Attack formation up and down the aisles.

Dunderheads.

spookwoman

auspicious wrote: »

( re. HSE cases map )
No thanks. I'm not part of that posse. I'm sure if one spends considerable time on this thread one's response can be a little short on occasion.

Surely if the HSE has gone to the trouble of compiling and releasing the map it would not be distributed to the media alone but made widely available to the public also.
If it is a public resource I am entitled to view it at my leisure.
If you have a link or such would you be so kind as to provide it?

report is here
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid19-updates.html#daily-updates

tobefrank321

smelly sock wrote: »

Wow. I wouldn't agree with point 1. I think come the 5th there will see a considerable and controller lifting of restrictions to allow the Economy to start to function again.

I'd agree with point 2. Come the 5th of May we need to keep protecting the Vulnerable. I think this can be done in tandem with a controlled lifting of restrictions.

Pubs and the hospitality businesses have to remain closed until further notice. I feel for everyone affected but that but there is just no way they can reopen until we are clear of Covid.

Anyone who can work remotely should continue to do so.

Building sites should reopen and they should continue with social distancing measures. Perhaps the different trades could rotate the days they work etc.

The like of the retail parks should reopen again with strict restrictions. It is all doable and can be successful along with keeping the new cases down.

This current lockdown won't be forced on us after the 5th of May that we know. It's up to the Govt. how much the Economy and people suffer from here on in. A balance needs to be struck. There is no point people coming on here talking about the sunrise and andrea Bocelli giving them a lift and all the vulnerable people they know and all that ****e if we don't have something to return to in terms of living standards.

People can argue that I'm being inhumane that's fine. But there is a practical element to this and people have every right to protect their income and job.

I think when covid19 came along first, there was a lot of uncertainty around it and fear of it. The more we learn about it, like anything the more we should be able to cope with it, long term. Its clear that 99% of kids for example will not be seriously impacted. The 1% who are should be given the best care in hospital. If we stretch out the herd immunity approach then we will of course see an unavoidable surge at various stages. We need to make a huge effort to prepare for this surge - Convert hotels to temporary hospitals, more ventilators, more icus beds, and PPE.

I should add that option 1 is my preference, to stamp it out completely.

We are failing to isolate positive cases properly, this seems to be the main failing in our approach. If someone tests positive, they need to be isolated, possibly in many of the vacant hotels we have at present. If they have strong symptoms of covid 19 they also should be isolated properly.

At the moment, our lockdown has way too many holes and flaws in it. You either go full lockdown for 2 or 3 months or you might as well not bother.

fly_agaric

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Let everyone else return to work. Even encourage the spread with the renewal of sports events and the likes - aim for gradually increasing herd immunity in the longer term

This disease seems to spread easily + growth of cases takes off like a rocket when people are behaving "normally". That course of action will I presume implode the health service at some point and lead to a pretty ghastly outcome + render last few weeks efforts pointless. Can't see that happening (even if some restrictions are lifted next month).

Kermit.de.frog

US death toll has been revised up for yesterday to 2,763 (and some previous days)

Overall death toll now stands at 32,707 (up from 28,500 yesterday)

castletownman

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

I saw that pub letter, total bs. Office of an taoiseach, signed Tony Halohan? He's in the department of health. One I saw has the letter open in Word aswell..

And I don't know how it could be so specific with the date September 1st.

Such soothsaying could have been handy at the start of February

Mic 1972

Larbre34 wrote: »

How do you know how able bodied they are? People don't advertise hidden conditions on a tag around their neck, and we haven't quite reached conditions that they need to.

So long as the stores are metering the total number of people inside the actual shop, it doesn't matter a whole lot if its one or two people from the same household that are there together. In fact it may get them in and out quite a bit quicker. My own anecdotal evidence would be that standards are if anything being reinforced.

metering the number of people is not enough if such people don't take care of social distancing and other basic rules. 1 person per household is the rule in most countries at the moment, not sure if it is in Ireland to it's common sense anyway, big weekly shopping instead of small repeated visit to the shop is also a must

FVP3

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Sounds like you going out a lot too if you see this everywhere, I think i got my answer already

You don't understand simple english, mate. Everywhere I shop is not the same as I shop everywhere. I shop once a week, as always, within 2Km and follow all social distancing.

You on the other hand tell us everyday how busy the streets are.

SCOOP 64

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If anyone wants to know the weather for the foreseeable future...

Whats the max you can invite to a BBQ party with the restrictions?

Mic 1972

FVP3 wrote: »

You don't understand simple english, mate. Everywhere I shop is not the same as I shop everywhere. I shop once a week, as always, within 2Km and follow all social distancing.

You on the other hand tell us everyday how busy the streets are.

I have been posting on this thread for merely 2 days, and i posted links to the videos of people strolling around the streets of Dublin in case you missed them

Kermit.de.frog

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Whats the max you can invite to a BBQ party with the restrictions?

1

lillycakes2

How can grandparents still cuddle their grandkids when restrictions are lifted or just come out of cocooning?

auspicious

spookwoman wrote: »

report is here
https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid19-updates.html#daily-updates

I was trying to avoid download though.
But thanks.

tobefrank321

lillycakes2 wrote: »

How can grandparents still cuddle their grandkids when restrictions are lifted or just come out of cocooning?

They can't. They won't be able to do that until we eliminate it through an extreme lockdown, a vaccine or when most children and their parents are immune.

one man clappin

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Whats the max you can invite to a BBQ party with the restrictions?

According to Priti Patel, three thousand, seventy eighty hundred nine thousand and thirty two hundred fifty five.