Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

is_that_so

caveat emptor wrote: »

I don't know? Nationalise them? Private model doesn't work during pandemic.
As for a review. I would think the operators would like a post mortem on how someone could sign such a one sided contract.

The government got a massive PR boost for "acquiring the private hospital use". Doesn't sound as good if we are paying 4 times as much as our nearest neighbour.

This is just not the right time for any of this. A contract was agreed in an extremely short time out of necessity. Who knows what terms were involved or why but crucially they did deliver an instant larger health system.

Mic 1972

bodhrandude wrote: »

how many times are you going to post this today? this is the 3rd time

eagle eye

Mic 1972 wrote:

how many times are you going to post this today? this is the 3rd time

Maybe you need to take a break from the thread?

Rob A. Bank

is_that_so wrote: »

Big problem there is the huge financial cost to the State for unlawful arrest never mind the very strong likelihood you'd have rioting!

If people are told before they fly or boat to Ireland, that they must pay for their 2 week quarantine in an airport hotel, rioting would be very unlikely.

It would be relatively cost neutral for the state and the hotels could do with the business.

That is the preventive measure other countries use.

Mic 1972

Iamabeliever wrote: »

Why don't you compare us to Iceland? They have terrible cases per million?

The reason why some countries were left out of his analysis is due to the population size. Ireland was put in the same list as countries with million plus population

Mic 1972

eagle eye wrote: »

Maybe you need to take a break from the thread?

or maybe people should stop spamming

Iamabeliever

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not really known, that's ICU and hospital stuff. IMO it's better to hear people have come out of ICU. You'd expect they'll get round to some random antibody testing and guessing how many were affected.

So if a simple pleb like me can't go on to worldometer and make a baseless opinion, how come everyone else can?

caveat emptor

is_that_so wrote: »

This is just not the right time for any of this. A contract was agreed in an extremely short time out of necessity. Who knows what terms were involved or why but crucially they did deliver an instant larger health system.

Let's agree to disagree. As a tax payer it's my right to see said contract. When you have a finance minister hiding behind a confidentiality clause in a contract you know something is amiss. Here's a comparison with UK private hospital deal.

The hospitals must have big windows because they saw us coming.

https://twitter.com/paulmurphy_TD/status/1251089584588558336?s=20

Mic 1972

NDWC wrote: »

Why do people keep comparing Ireland to other countries in terms of cases and deaths per million population?

It's been established dozens of times that countries aren't comparable due to differences in testing and reporting of deaths

People seem to want to use these figures as a stick to beat Ireland with, it's bizarre

You can compare different countries when the number of testing per million is also in the same range. Basic statistic

bodhrandude

Mic 1972 wrote: »

or maybe people should stop spamming

You don't understand though, this guy should be given credit for injecting brilliant humour in amongst this misery porn, what's there not too like and stop being so serious.

Mwengwe

s1ippy wrote: »

Your experience is just as valid. I just think my road is a stark reminder what can happen when you or those you interact with have no respect for the measures.


With the good weather we've all been outside in our gardens. They are mostly family so they communicate through our hedge and over their back wall with the surrounding family members who live in six of the surrounding houses and a few more on the next road over. Our road is a cul de sac, so very easy to track movements. We can hear their comings and goings in neighbouring houses because they all have dogs that go ballistic every time anyone comes onto the road, can be heard from every room in our house.

I wish I weren't aware of their flouting of the rules. They'll probably know if we tell the Gardaí because we're the only house on the road who don't engage with them. I'd rather be a live cúnt than a polite corpse. Although the older woman next door was taken to hospital by ambulance this morning so the relevant authorities will likely be seeing the outcome of their flaunting of the rules in coming days if they're being hospitalised now.

My partner is on friendly terms with a couple with young kids who live at the end of the road. They are not related to the families and she texted yesterday to say that her family have a confirmed case and so does the elderly gent next door to them who also isn't a relative of the six houses.

I really believe and hope that this scenario is not indicative of the wider population but when this sh!t started happening in Wuhan they sealed people into their homes, welding the doors shut. Yet here they're free to head to work, the shops etc and that's what they're doing, and I would argue that even a few situations like this are what's going to cause Ireland to be overcome by cases.

OK i apologise for my earlier scepticism. One thing I will say, as someone who is living with people who are flouting the rules, coming and going, it's a distressing feeling and I worry that people/neighbours etc will lump me in with them when I'm as upset about it as they are. No getting through to some people.

Iamabeliever

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The reason why some countries were left out of his analysis is due to the population size. Ireland was put in the same list as countries with million plus population

But I don't understand how one can compare Italy(60m) v ireland(4.9m) which is roughly 12.5 times the difference in pop. But not compare ireland(4.9m) v Iceland (360k) which is roughly 13 times the difference. Do you see where I'm coming from? Or do you need tables and a YouTube video to convince you 😂

Hobgoblin11

If we are following the bell shaped curve , I’m hoping that we are in the 9.2% quartile

smelly sock

Iamabeliever wrote: »

But I don't understand how one can compare Italy(60m) v ireland(4.9m) which is roughly 12.5 times the difference in pop. But not compare ireland(4.9m) v Iceland (360k) which is roughly 13 times the difference. Do you see where I'm coming from? Or do you need tables and a YouTube video to convince you 😂

A graph with some nice colours.

Iamabeliever

Mic 1972 wrote: »

You can compare different countries when the number of testing per million is also in the same range. Basic statistic

*Cough

Mic 1972

Iamabeliever wrote: »

But I don't understand how one can compare Italy(60m) v ireland(4.9m) which is roughly 12.5 times the difference in pop. But not compare ireland(4.9m) v Iceland (360k) which is roughly 13 times the difference. Do you see where I'm coming from? Or do you need tables and a YouTube video to convince you ��

If you want o include Iceland fell free, no need to attack me :-) I'm only explaining what i think is the logic behind the analysis presented in the video. This is not a competition game, it's a way to assess where we stand with the current infection rate

Tony EH

wakka12 wrote: »

So china literally admits the death toll until now in its epicentre was underrepresented by half . Unbelievable that WHO bare face lied to the world saying there's no reason to believe china lied about its figures and that they seemed legitimate

How is it a "lie" if the WHO didn't know themselves. They only have what China was reporting at the time...like the rest of us. They don't have crystal balls.

Stop talking shite.

Iamabeliever

Mic 1972 wrote: »

If you want o include Iceland fell free, no need to attack me :-) I'm only explaining what i think is the logic behind the analysis presented in the video. This is not a competition game, it's a way to assess where we stand with the current infection rate

Through debate and good humour 😆

wakka12

Tony EH wrote: »

How is it a "lie" if the WHO didn't know themselves. They only have what China was reporting at the time...like the rest of us. They don't have crystal balls.

Stop talking shite.

No, WHO sent a team to CHIna to investigate whether the figures released from China seemed legitimate based hospital records, number of patients, and many other factors. And they said it all looked legit

https://news.sky.com/story/world-health-organisation-heads-for-china-to-investigate-coronavirus-11934450
This team of experts in epidemiology didnt recognise that half of all deaths in Wuhan had not even been reported?

tobefrank321

I'm not convinced the HSE/CMO/Nolan have a clue what the community case numbers are. To do that you need rapid turnaround of tests. There are anecdotally and also proven examples (eg Mary Lou) of people waiting up to 3 weeks for results and weeks to be even called for tests.

How they can form a judgement that community cases are rapidly declining is beyond me. If you don't test most community cases your model is obviously going to tell you there is a low R0, when the reality might be different.

Some of the journalists at the daily briefings need to take off the green jersey.

Christy42

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'm not convinced the HSE/CMO/Nolan have a clue what the community case numbers are. To do that you need rapid turnaround of tests. There are anecdotally and also proven examples (eg Mary Lou) of people waiting up to 3 weeks for results and weeks to be even called for tests.

How they can form a judgement that community cases are rapidly declining is beyond me. If you don't test most community cases your model is obviously going to tell you there is a low R0, when the reality might be different.

Some of the journalists at the daily briefings need to take off the green jersey.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

I imagine the 3 weeks thing is shortening as those would have been part of the 40k backlog. As for testing. Well we are testing as much as nearly anyone else so if anyone would know it is us.

blade1

Mic 1972 wrote: »

how many times are you going to post this today? this is the 3rd time

He posted here,
He posted here again,
He posted here,
He posted here again,
He posted here,
He posted here againnnnnnn..
Learning to post on boards .ie

iamwhoiam

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/new-drug-covid19

Some positive news on clinical data about Remdesivir

tobefrank321

Tony EH wrote: »

How is it a "lie" if the WHO didn't know themselves. They only have what China was reporting at the time...like the rest of us. They don't have crystal balls.

Stop talking shite.

Ah FFS.

It was blatantly obvious all the Chinese figures were lies. Even people in Wuhan were saying that before a number of them were forcefully disappeared. A number of whistleblowers have still not been heard from. That alone tells you there was a cover up going on.

It appears to be contained in Wuhan but believing only 2500 people died there or that there was 85000 cases is almost laughable.

WHO just parrot unquestionably what the Chinese tell them to do. They've become complete puppets of the Chinese to the point its hard to know the difference between the two at this stage.

The Chinese said there was no person to person transmission, the WHO don't bother even checking for themselves. It took the Taiwanese to call bullsh*t on that one. The Chinese say banning Chinese travellers is a bad idea, the WHO announce the same. More bullsh*t.

Tony EH

wakka12 wrote: »

No, WHO sent a team to CHIna to investigate whether the figures released from China seemed legitimate based hospital records, number of patients, and many other factors. And they said it all looked legit

So what?

Unless the WHO instituted a regime of widespread testing THEMSELVES, they wouldn't know whether China's figures were correct or not.

The idea that the WHO were "lying" is horseshit.

They HAD to go on what China was telling them at the beginning, the same as everyone else.

tobefrank321

Christy42 wrote: »

The plural of anecdote is not data.

I imagine the 3 weeks thing is shortening as those would have been part of the 40k backlog. As for testing. Well we are testing as much as nearly anyone else so if anyone would know it is us.

If you are hoping to get the truth from the HSE briefings you will be waiting.

They are an exercise in obfuscation and communication management, aided by journalists who wouldn't know a tough question if their life depended on it.

tigger123

loobylou wrote: »

I crossed a land border from Cambodia into Vietnam at the end of January. Apart from the regular customs and immigration we were taken aside by staff in ppe, had our temperatures taken and were required to fill out an extensive form as to our recent health and travel movements. We were then given a cert to carry with our passports as proof of screening. Hotels we subsequently stayed at had closed gyms and swimming pools to prevent infection. Staff all wore masks (quite normal in Vietnam) and distancing was encouraged, eg you were asked to stand back a little from reception desk.
Point is, Vietnam were taking the threat seriously. When we got back into Dublin airport weeks later we didn’t even get a leaflet.

I passed from Vietnam to Cambodia about 4 years ago and they were doing the same kind of health screening, taking temperatures etc. Par for the course going between those 2 countries. Couldn't tell you why though.

Tony EH

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Ah FFS.

It was blatantly obvious all the Chinese figures were lies. Even people in Wuhan were saying that before a number of them were forcefully disappeared. A number of whistleblowers have still not been heard from. That alone tells you there was a cover up going on.

It appears to be contained in Wuhan but believing only 2500 people died there or that there was 85000 cases is almost laughable.

WHO just parrot unquestionably what the Chinese tell them to do. They've become complete puppets of the Chinese to the point its hard to know the difference between the two at this stage.

The Chinese said there was no person to person transmission, the WHO don't bother even checking for themselves. It took the Taiwanese to call bullsh*t on that one. The Chinese say banning Chinese travellers is a bad idea, the WHO announce the same. More bullsh*t.

Bollocks talk.

tobefrank321

Tony EH wrote: »

So what?

Unless the WHO instituted a regime of widespread testing THEMSELVES, they wouldn't know whether China's figures were correct or not.

The idea that the WHO were "lying" is horseshit.

They HAD to go on what China was telling them at the beginning, the same as everyone else.

Parroting liars without question at the outbreak of a potentially lethal pandemic was hardly a good idea.

Sounds like the WHO didn't bother with even the most basic checks to see if the Chinese were telling the truth.

But hey it was only one of the most costly pandemics in history, why bother with a few checks. Easier just to parrot what you were told.

Tony EH

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Parroting liars without question at the outbreak of a potentially lethal pandemic was hardly a good idea.

Sounds like the WHO didn't bother with even the most basic checks to see if the Chinese were telling the truth.

But hey it was only one of the most costly pandemics in history, why bother with a few checks. Easier just to parrot what you were told.

More bollocks talk.

tigger123

tobefrank321 wrote: »

If you are hoping to get the truth from the HSE briefings you will be waiting.

They are an exercise in obfuscation and communication management, aided by journalists who wouldn't know a tough question if their life depended on it.

You should get in there, show everyone how it's done. You're wasted here.

tobefrank321

Tony EH wrote: »

Bollocks talk.

Wow, cursing in every post now are we? No attempt at an intelligent argument?

Tony EH

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Wow, cursing in every post now are we? No attempt at an intelligent argument?

And yet more.

walshb

Airports:

Is it still possible that people can fly on non-essential travel from Ireland?

Not in Kansas

s1ippy wrote: »

They shout over my hedge at each other and I'm in and around my back garden almost all the time. If that's what you take from my post you're doing some serious wriggling to be in denial.

I'm sorry but I prefer to go on facts from reliable sources rather than things you have managed to hear being shouted over your hedge.

Hector Savage

Jesus don't look at the Sun website, they say 40k dead in UK in this wave - and this wave is the 1st of 9 ....


Christ I swear some journalists are loving this

Professor Moriarty

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Parroting liars without question at the outbreak of a potentially lethal pandemic was hardly a good idea.

Sounds like the WHO didn't bother with even the most basic checks to see if the Chinese were telling the truth.

But hey it was only one of the most costly pandemics in history, why bother with a few checks. Easier just to parrot what you were told.

Sounds like. Here is a report from the WHO's joint mission to China in February.

"The Joint Mission consisted of 25 national and international experts from China, Germany, Japan, Korea, Nigeria, Russia, Singapore, the United States of America and the World Health Organization (WHO)."

ednwireland

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Ah FFS.

It was blatantly obvious all the Chinese figures were lies. Even people in Wuhan were saying that before a number of them were forcefully disappeared. A number of whistleblowers have still not been heard from. That alone tells you there was a cover up going on.

It appears to be contained in Wuhan but believing only 2500 people died there or that there was 85000 cases is almost laughable.

WHO just parrot unquestionably what the Chinese tell them to do. They've become complete puppets of the Chinese to the point its hard to know the difference between the two at this stage.

The Chinese said there was no person to person transmission, the WHO don't bother even checking for themselves. It took the Taiwanese to call bullsh*t on that one. The Chinese say banning Chinese travellers is a bad idea, the WHO announce the same. More bullsh*t.

yeh blame the WHO, there was a WHO doctor yesterday who was saying that you cant go into places all heavy handed as the WHO has no actual powers. so they have to tread very carefully and hope they can get a feeling for whats going on even if they arent shown the real figures.

if they try throwing there weight around they get kicked out and get nothing.

as far as i can see the WHO did as good a job as they were allowed

The HSE did a good job prepping hospitals and completely dropped the ball on nursing homes as far as i can see

tobefrank321

Mic 1972 wrote: »

You can compare different countries when the number of testing per million is also in the same range. Basic statistic

Agreed. Next we'll be told we are doing far better than San Marino, the Faroes and the Vatican!

We are not doing well compared to a number of countries of similar size both in Europe and worldwide. We are doing far worse than a number of far bigger countries like Taiwan and South Korea.

We are roughly equivalent to the US per capita, even though they have a monumentally more difficult task with internal air travel, larger and numerous cities.

We aren't doing great at all.

Professor Moriarty

ednwireland wrote: »

yeh blame the WHO, there was a WHO doctor yesterday who was saying that you cant go into places all heavy handed as the WHO has no actual powers. so they have to tread very carefully and hope they can get a feeling for whats going on even if they arent shown the real figures.

if they try throwing there weight around they get kicked out and get nothing.

as far as i can see the WHO did as good a job as they were allowed

The HSE did a good job prepping hospitals and completely dropped the ball on nursing homes as far as i can see

Nursing home deaths are on a par with other countries.

SweetCaliber

Cops stopping nearly all buses on O'Connell street today but still way too many people out, looks like a normal Saturday with the crowds on the webcam today.

tobefrank321

ednwireland wrote: »

yeh blame the WHO, there was a WHO doctor yesterday who was saying that you cant go into places all heavy handed as the WHO has no actual powers. so they have to tread very carefully and hope they can get a feeling for whats going on even if they arent shown the real figures.

if they try throwing there weight around they get kicked out and get nothing.

as far as i can see the WHO did as good a job as they were allowed

The HSE did a good job prepping hospitals and completely dropped the ball on nursing homes as far as i can see

They didn't though. They've made numerous mistakes particularly at the start.

The start of a pandemic is the most important phase. Everything you do after that is the result of a good or bad start, as we found out in Ireland. You make a bad start and it goes downhill from there.

hotmail.com

Do people think their clothes from Penneys are produced by well paid workers?

This Keelings thing is a load of rubbish.

JP Liz V1

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/new-drug-covid19

Some positive news on clinical data about Remdesivir

Is UHG trialling some drugs on Covid19 patients here?

Mic 1972

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Agreed. Next we'll be told we are doing far better than San Marino, the Faroes and the Vatican!

We are not doing well compared to a number of countries of similar size both in Europe and worldwide. We are doing far worse than a number of far bigger countries like Taiwan and South Korea.

We are roughly equivalent to the US per capita, even though they have a monumentally more difficult task with internal air travel, larger and numerous cities.

We aren't doing great at all.

Correct 100%
Comparisons can be done when using the appropriate metrics and they help put things into perspective. A few weeks ago we looked at Italy as the worst possible place to be in, now we are pretty much in the same position as them, are we are already talking about easing the restrictions

lawred2

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Parroting liars without question at the outbreak of a potentially lethal pandemic was hardly a good idea.

Sounds like the WHO didn't bother with even the most basic checks to see if the Chinese were telling the truth.

But hey it was only one of the most costly pandemics in history, why bother with a few checks. Easier just to parrot what you were told.

Would you expect the WHO to distrust all nations? Or just ones on your list?

tobefrank321

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sounds like. Here is a report from the WHO's joint mission to China in February.

"The Joint Mission consisted of 25 national and international experts from China, Germany, Japan, Korea, Nigeria, Russia, Singapore, the United States of America and the World Health Organization (WHO)."

February?

By February it had already spread worldwide.

What good was a report then?

smelly sock

Am i sensing that posters are coming to the conclusion Trump was correct to suspend funding to the WHO?

Tony EH

ednwireland wrote: »

yeh blame the WHO, there was a WHO doctor yesterday who was saying that you cant go into places all heavy handed as the WHO has no actual powers. so they have to tread very carefully and hope they can get a feeling for whats going on even if they arent shown the real figures.

if they try throwing there weight around they get kicked out and get nothing.

as far as i can see the WHO did as good a job as they were allowed

Exactly.

The World Health Organisation has their hands tied in many respects. They have to play a careful diplomatic game with countries like China and they cannot just go around all bullish and calling nations liars, especially when they are the originator of a pandemic that may turn into a worldwide problem and the organisation needs access to that nation to ascertain their own factual information.

If the WHO had said in January that they thought China were a bunch of spoofers, they would have been severely marginalised and our situation would have been WORSE, not better.

hmmm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

They didn't though. They've made numerous mistakes particularly at the start.

The start of a pandemic is the most important phase. Everything you do after that is the result of a good or bad start, as we found out in Ireland. You make a bad start and it goes downhill from there.

The WHO was reporting on this for months, it was up to countries whether or not they followed their advice.

I remember the WHO team were the first team to get access to China, and produced a report shortly afterwards. I remember the press conference from the team afterwards - a really good presentation of the facts as they were known at the time. Bruce Aylward told every country that they would have to do what China did, and few believed him - and he was right.

Trump and his band of followers are trying to spin this as the WHO's "fault", because he sat on his hands for nearly 2 months hoping this would disappear. It's the fault of the US that they elected a moron as President, and now they are going to pay the price.

It's clear also that the government & HSE here started taking this seriously very early. There was a monumental amount of planning done early, and while they didn't predict everything they have got an awful lot right.