Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

lawred2

smelly sock wrote: »

Am i sensing that posters are coming to the conclusion Trump was correct to suspend funding to the WHO?

Well some posters think everything Trump does is correct. Is that supposed to mean something?

What do you think about suspending funding to the only global health authority during a pandemic with no known vaccine?

Professor Moriarty

tobefrank321 wrote: »

February?

By February it had already spread worldwide.

What good was a report then?

Very important data collated. Very important report disseminated worldwide. But I doubt you're capable of admitting you were wrong.

tobefrank321

walshb wrote: »

Airports:

Is it still possible that people can fly on non-essential travel from Ireland?

Only ever an advisory so likely yes. I don't believe you have to prove what your business is for flying (as for example at a garda checkpoint).

But if anyone has information otherwise, it would be great to hear it.

I have no problems with medics coming in so long as they first isolate for two weeks if coming from a hotspot. But ordinary passengers, that's a different story.

Truth is we don't actually know who is coming in or going out. Its not information that is published.

Professor Moriarty

lawred2 wrote: »

Well some posters think everything Trump does is correct. Is that supposed to mean something?

What do you think about suspending funding to the only global health authority during a pandemic with no known vaccine?

Good news! Despite the Orange One's 'look over there' tantrum, Bill Gates stepped in this week and gave $120 million to WHO.

tobefrank321

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Very important data collated. Very important report disseminated worldwide. But I doubt you're capable of admitting you were wrong.

Collated by the 20th February according to the report and distributed worldwide at the end of February.

Horse, door, bolted.

hotmail.com

smelly sock wrote: »

Am i sensing that posters are coming to the conclusion Trump was correct to suspend funding to the WHO?

We want to hear less about Trump.

Professor Moriarty

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Collated by the 20th February according to the report and distributed worldwide at the end of February.

Horse, door, bolted.

Sure.

Tony EH

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Collated by the 20th February according to the report and distributed worldwide at the end of February.

Horse, door, bolted.

Oh shut up.

We're STILL in the early days of this thing and there's a ton we still don't know. Any facts that can be collated are vital.

tobefrank321

Hector Savage wrote: »

Jesus don't look at the Sun website, they say 40k dead in UK in this wave - and this wave is the 1st of 9 ....


Christ I swear some journalists are loving this

They are only quoting experts, particularly the expert who said they could expect 8-9 waves.

What do you want them to do, ignore it, not publish it, put on the red and white jersey and tell everyone its grand?

hmmm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

February?

By February it had already spread worldwide.

What good was a report then?

No-one knew at the time that it had spread worldwide Captain Hindsight.

Because that was when the WHO were allowed access to China. If I remember correctly, the US CDC were denied access because the great orange one was crap at diplomacy. The WHO report was quickly published and most countries (with the exception of the US) started preparing on the back of it.

Professor Moriarty

smelly sock wrote: »

Am i sensing that posters are coming to the conclusion Trump was correct to suspend funding to the WHO?

Only the cretinous ones.

castletownman

hotmail.com wrote: »

Do people think their clothes from Penneys are produced by well paid workers?

This Keelings thing is a load of rubbish.

The number of people ranting about it on facebook, the majority from their ethically-produced smart phone of course, are drowning in a sea of irony.

keynes

Tony EH wrote: »

Exactly.

The World Health Organisation has their hands tied in many respects. They have to play a careful diplomatic game with countries like China and they cannot just go around all bullish and calling nations liars, especially when they are the originator of a pandemic that may turn into a worldwide problem and the organisation needs access to that nation to ascertain their own factual information.

If the WHO had said in January that they thought China were a bunch of spoofers, they would have been severely marginalised and our situation would have been WORSE, not better.

The whole issue is the WHO lent their imprimatur to Chinese lies and actively promoted them. As a result, they disseminated misinformation, which had catastrophic consequences

hmmm

castletownman wrote: »

The number of people ranting about it on facebook, the majority from their ethically-produced smart phone of course, are drowning in a sea of irony.

After holiday-home-gate, I was wondering who the mob was going to blame this week.

So far we've done:
St. Patrick's day
Pubs
People in National Parks
People at beaches
Anyone who leaves their house
Joggers
Holiday home owners
Dubs

Still to do:
Non-mask wearers

tobefrank321

Tony EH wrote: »

Oh shut up.

We're STILL in the early days of this thing and there's a ton we still don't know. Any facts that can be collated are vital.

I'll ignore the shut up, this time.

By late February, it had gained a foothold in Italy, Spain, the US, UK most of Europe and was likely circulating here and in other countries already for weeks.

It couldn't be clearer, the WHO dropped the ball in January. Very costly in terms of human life. Not to mention the economic damage which is estimated to run to 9 trillion dollars.

Acosta

Why is Harris on about Airports now? I've not seen the Dublin Airport passenger numbers in the past week, but I'd be surprised at this point if the combined daily figure for the 3 main airports is more than Dublun what would have had in the space of an hour a month ago.

wakka12

Tony EH wrote: »

So what?

Unless the WHO instituted a regime of widespread testing THEMSELVES, they wouldn't know whether China's figures were correct or not.

The idea that the WHO were "lying" is horseshit.

They HAD to go on what China was telling them at the beginning, the same as everyone else.

Not true! WHO had no problem accusing Iran of underreporting deaths and cases massively
https://en.radiofarda.com/a/who-official-says-iran-death-toll-potentially-five-times-higher/30492491.html

I dont know if WHO even sent a team to Iran

caveat emptor

[QUOTE=hmmm;113186797]No-one knew at the time that it had spread worldwide Captain Hindsight.

Because that was when the WHO were allowed access to China. If I remember correctly, the US CDC were denied access because the great orange one was crap at diplomacy. The WHO report was quickly published and most countries (with the exception of the US) started preparing on the back of it.[/QUOTE]

I've very sorry but I have to call bulls!t yet again.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1221542425056940034?s=20

hmmm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

It couldn't be clearer, the WHO dropped the ball in January. Very costly in terms of human life. Not to mention the economic damage which is estimated to run to 9 trillion dollars.

The WHO can't magically know everything there is about a brand-new virus immediately. They only got access to China through careful diplomacy - if they took the US approach, we'd have lost a month of preparation.

It will be interesting to see who Trump proposes replacing the WHO with - probably Jared or Ivanka.

Shelle1234.

castletownman wrote: »

The number of people ranting about it on facebook, the majority from their ethically-produced smart phone of course, are drowning in a sea of irony.

Cant speak for anyone else but for me the biggest problem with it is the blatent disregard for the workers they took in and the ryanair staff. I dont care who picks my strawberries as long as they are safe and likewise cant pass on anything locally. But these guys had no distancing on a plane and no test before flying. If one was infected a whole lot more are and in return it could be an extra 180 odd being admitted to irish hospitals. At least thats my gripe with it

stephenjmcd

SweetCaliber wrote: »

Cops stopping nearly all buses on O'Connell street today but still way too many people out, looks like a normal Saturday with the crowds on the webcam today.

They've been doing that and on darts for the last few days.

But this looks like a normal Saturday to you??

hmmm

caveat emptor wrote: »

I've very sorry but I have to call bulls!t yet again.

So on the one hand you're saying we can't trust China, and on the other hand we were supposed to immediately accept a report the Chinese issued?

Will you make up your mind?

tobefrank321

hmmm wrote: »

No-one knew at the time that it had spread worldwide Captain Hindsight.

Because that was when the WHO were allowed access to China. If I remember correctly, the US CDC were denied access because the great orange one was crap at diplomacy. The WHO report was quickly published and most countries (with the exception of the US) started preparing on the back of it.

The fact that you keep mentioning hindsight makes you look really silly.

How on earth was it not predictable that a highly contagious disease wouldn't spread worldwide in a matter of weeks if you didn't stop air travel from the Wuhan epicentre, which is exactly what the WHO and China advised against doing?

Nothing to do with hindsight, everything to do with common sense.

Tony EH

keynes wrote: »

The whole issue is the WHO lent their imprimatur to Chinese lies and actively promoted them. As a result, they disseminated misinformation, which had catastrophic consequences

The WHO could have ONLY reported what the Chinese were telling them at the time.

They (and nobody else) hadn't any real way of knowing for a fact if the Chinese were feeding them inaccurate information, whether deliberately or by genuine miscalculation.

It would have served nobody at all, if the WHO had just automatically dismissed what China was providing them and branded them as liars. Doing so would have meant LESS information about the virus getting to the WHO (and therefore the rest of the world) in the vital early stages of the outbreak.

Professor Moriarty

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'll ignore the shut up, this time.

By late February, it had gained a foothold in Italy, Spain, the US, UK most of Europe and was likely circulating here and in other countries already for weeks.

It couldn't be clearer, the WHO dropped the ball in January. Very costly in terms of human life. Not to mention the economic damage which is estimated to run to 9 trillion dollars.

The WHO requested access to China in mid January but were refused. That early enough for you? Just maybe, the people that run WHO might be a bit smarter than little old outraged you?

hmmm

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How on earth was it not predictable that a highly contagious disease wouldn't spread worldwide in a matter of weeks if you didn't stop air travel from the Wuhan epicentre, which is exactly what the WHO and China advised against doing?

Nothing to do with hindsight, everything to do with common sense.

The outbreak in Italy is believed to have started in late 2019. Well before any travel restrictions were put in place, and the Italians were the first to stop travel to China.

Your "common sense" would not have stopped the outbreak which affected Europe.

I expect we'll see similar results in the US.

The virus was outside China before the world was even aware of it.

Another outcome of this virus hopefully will be an independent organisation separate to HIQA to monitor and audit nursing homes. HIQA is far too closely linked with nursing home owners.

lawred2

caveat emptor wrote: »

I've very sorry but I have to call bulls!t yet again.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1221542425056940034?s=20

So the Chinese weren't hiding anything or obfuscating...

I'm confused - thought they weren't to be trusted

caveat emptor

hmmm wrote: »

So on the one hand you're saying we can't trust China, and on the other hand we were supposed to immediately accept a report the Chinese issued?

Will you make up your mind?

That's a peer reviewed scientific journal not the CCP. Bit of a difference.
I didn't say we can't trust China. Although with the benefit of hindsight that would probably have been a wise decision. After all every country has to manage public opinion in different ways.

We don't have a great firewall but we do have the. "it'll be grand brigade" which have been redeployed as the "what could we have done" brigade.

• How could we have possibly known?
• What could we have done?
• We were great at getting PPE. Don't mention the 25% of cases being HCWs
• list goes on

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1227465400000090113?s=20

Tony EH

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'll ignore the shut up, this time.

Ignore what you want. Nobody gives a shit.

But you're still talking bollocks.

The WHO hadn't any real choice but to go with what China was providing them with. If they had simply dismissed what China was saying and called them liars, it may have gone some way to pleasing little shitbags on the web who are only interested in pointing fingers, but it wouldn't have served any other purpose and we would be in a bigger mess now.

China was the patient zero of a potential global pandemic and the WHO needed access to that country to gather their own facts. Facts that were going to be vital in combatting the spread of the virus which little was known about in January or February.

New Home

Disease X, Ladies and Gentlemen.

joe40

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/10/world-health-organization-who-v-coronavirus-why-it-cant-handle-pandemic

Interesting article about the WHO. I think they did the best job possible with limited resources. They had no power so had to rely on diplomacy.

New Home

New Home wrote: »

Disease X, Ladies and Gentlemen.

And to add to that, "Pandemic predictions and preparations prior to COVID-19".

Tony EH

wakka12 wrote: »

Not true! WHO had no problem accusing Iran of underreporting deaths and cases massively
https://en.radiofarda.com/a/who-official-says-iran-death-toll-potentially-five-times-higher/30492491.html

I dont know if WHO even sent a team to Iran

He's saying that the testing will reveal better figures.

It isn't the same as calling the Chinese liars or trying to suggest a cover up.

Strazdas

Tony EH wrote: »

The WHO hadn't any real choice but to go with what China was providing them with. If they had simply dismissed what China was saying and called them liars, it may have gone some way to pleasing little shitbags on the web who are only interested in pointing fingers, but it wouldn't have served any other purpose and we would be in a bigger mess now.

China was the patient zero of a potential global pandemic and the WHO needed access to that country to gather their own facts. Facts that were going to be vital in combatting the spread of the virus which little was known about in January or February.

100% : if the WHO had gone down the route of aggressive confrontation and calling China liars, the Chinese would have told them to get the hell out of the country and never come back.

It seems to have escaped the attention of the Twitter brigade that the virus started in an authoritarian dictatorship which was always going to make management of the virus a nightmare.

Professor Moriarty

joe40 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/apr/10/world-health-organization-who-v-coronavirus-why-it-cant-handle-pandemic

Interesting article about the WHO. I think they did the best job possible with limited resources. They had no power so had to rely on diplomacy.

I read it. It's excellent. Shows how governments ignored WHO's warnings - including the Orange One. The article is quite critical of WHO too.

hmmm

I don't know why you keep quoting this person as if he is some sort of expert. Why haven't you done your research on this? Here's what one of the world's leading epidemiologists has to say.

https://twitter.com/mlipsitch/status/1250235206088482816

s1ippy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

They've been doing that and on darts for the last few days.

But this looks like a normal Saturday to you??

There are a lot more people in that photo than I expected.

caveat emptor wrote: »

I've very sorry but I have to call bulls!t yet again.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1221542425056940034?s=20

I actually just completely ignore hmm tell me why Tony EH and a few others here who are just beyond any logic or reason. I enjoy watching them flounder trying to refute all the facts but it's wasted time engaging with them. Those kinds of people were on the thread since Feb but many have changed their tune now, the ones now are just panicked new people who are only catching up so have to double down on their effort to downplay the issues because it's so far out of control.

Things not looking great today on worldometer.

keynes

Tony EH wrote: »

The WHO could have ONLY reported what the Chinese were telling them at the time.

They (and nobody else) hadn't any real way of knowing for a fact if the Chinese were feeding them inaccurate information, whether deliberately or by genuine miscalculation.

It would have served nobody at all, if the WHO had just automatically dismissed what China was providing them and branded them as liars. Doing so would have meant LESS information about the virus getting to the WHO (and therefore the rest of the world) in the vital early stages of the outbreak.

They didn't have to enthusiastically report everything on twitter if they didn't know it was "factual". China's history of suppressing information, coupled with the fact that the virus originated in there should have urged caution---lots of caution.

The WHO should have assessed and appraised the information before reporting anything; that's what they get paid millions to do, surely?

hmmm

keynes wrote: »

The WHO should have assessed and appraised the information before reporting anything; that's what they get paid millions to do, surely?

I'm confused. On the one hand (in this thread) we are told that we should have accepted what China was saying and should have immediately acted on it, and then on the other hand we should have not accepted what China said and the WHO should have investigated it (which they did).

Did you read the WHO report from their team who went to China? It was excellent, and most of what they advised has been correct. It's not their fault Trump decided that the virus was "just going to disappear" and wanted to prioritise the economy.

Hobgoblin11

Ireland has on 77 recovered people! That's wild

tobefrank321

lawred2 wrote: »

So the Chinese weren't hiding anything or obfuscating...

I'm confused - thought they weren't to be trusted

The Chinese told the WHO early in January that that the virus could not be transmitted person to person.

The Taiwanese emailed the WHO before that, saying they strongly believed the virus was being transmitted person to person. The WHO didn't even bother replying and continue to deny they received the email, prompting the Taiwanese to publish it recently.

It was only a couple of weeks after that email the WHO admitted the virus was being spread person to person.

Something like this might seem excusable in hindsight, problem is they were advised at the time it was being transmitted person to person and chose to ignore it.

Ficheall

Tony EH wrote: »

Ignore what you want. Nobody gives a shit.

But you're still talking bollocks.

The WHO hadn't any real choice but to go with what China was providing them with. If they had simply dismissed what China was saying and called them liars, it may have gone some way to pleasing little shitbags on the web who are only interested in pointing fingers, but it wouldn't have served any other purpose and we would be in a bigger mess now.

China was the patient zero of a potential global pandemic and the WHO needed access to that country to gather their own facts. Facts that were going to be vital in combatting the spread of the virus which little was known about in January or February.

They didn't have to call China liars to acknowledge the virus was going to be a problem, which was pretty obvious for quite some time before they started encouraging countries to do anything about it. Even while Italy was getting f*cked by the virus, the WHO were saying it had the potential to become a problem, but that for the moment it could be contained.
China never said they had it wholly contained, and anybody watching China in January would have seen there was a sh*tstorm on the way. Had gov'ts made their own calls, instead of relying on the WHO to make the calls for them, they might have treated the pandemic with the concern it deserved.

Christy42

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

Ireland has on 77 recovered people! That's wild

Many countries don't really record that Stát. Remember this is just a collection of official stats. Some countries don't really release testing data, we only do that once a week. A lot of caveats.

caveat emptor

hmmm wrote: »

I don't know why you keep quoting this person as if he is some sort of expert. Why haven't you done your research on this? Here's what one of the world's leading epidemiologists has to say.

https://twitter.com/mlipsitch/status/1250235206088482816

Must be a lot of ego's in epidemiology. He was right on quite a lot of things. This is not a game of "who the **** are you"

https://twitter.com/mlipsitch/status/1232504991170072584?s=20

frillyleaf

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Seriously? Where do you get this stuff? Do you even believe what you are saying?

Re uncontrolled growth, if you were around here 6-7 weeks ago, you would have seen numerous people calling for parades to be cancelled, the madness of Cheltenham, schools to be closed, and travel to and from northern Italy immediately suspended. All of which the government either dithered on or did nothing at all. They actually wanted to allow the parades to go ahead to prove we were open for business and to help the tourist and hospitality trade. Insanity.


Mistakes? I would call them monumental c*ck ups, led by Simon Harris and Leo Varadkar. It didn't have to be this bad. It didn't have to be near this bad. Confirmed cases we are worse per capita than the US, and similar per capita in terms of deaths. Yet all we hear is we are doing well, they are doing terribly.

Why are they saying we are doing so well ? Maybe trump isn’t doing as bad as people think

Kermit.de.frog

hmmm wrote: »

I don't know why you keep quoting this person as if he is some sort of expert. Why haven't you done your research on this? Here's what one of the world's leading epidemiologists has to say.

https://twitter.com/mlipsitch/status/1250235206088482816

Ouch.

So that man, Eric, basically somehow got in to a situation of advising a governor despite not being qualified in the relevant discipline?

Tony EH

keynes wrote: »

They didn't have to enthusiastically report everything on twitter if they didn't know it was "factual". China's history of suppressing information, coupled with the fact that the virus originated in there should have urged caution---lots of caution.

The didn't "enthusiastically" report anything.

They just passed on the information they had at the time.

There wasn't really anything else they could have done, until they had their own facts.

keynes wrote: »

The WHO should have assessed and appraised the information before reporting anything; that's what they get paid millions to do, surely?

And then people like you would on here blaming them for wasting time.

The fact of the matter is the that WHO had nothing else more solid to go on at the time and HAD to offer some sort of trust to what the Chinese were telling them, so they could build their own more accurate information. Not doing so would have restricted their access and left them (and subsequently us) even more in the dark.

maninasia

is_that_so wrote: »

Research on it by WHO themselves suggested there is not a lot to be gained from it IF you are following the other known effective guidelines. It's an individual choice of countries but people are likely to find a way around bans in our connected world.

No they aren't going to find anyway around it if you enforce border control and quarantine.

maninasia

normanoffside wrote: »

Universal testing in a large Homeless shelter in Boston revealed that 36% had the disease on the day of testing (147 people)

Only 1 had a fever and 13 had a cough.

None were seriously sick.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.12.20059618v1

Need to see how they selected the homeless.for that , also track these people one week later.
Diamond princess cruise ship will have solid statistics as they were all tested.