Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

Notmything

MD1990 wrote: »

John Campbell has a video later that has evidence people are immune.

Large mjaority are immune . Video will be out later.
Oxford may have a vaccine in september also. Unlikely but seems to be going well.

ICU numbers going down too. Spain improving quite alot now too.
So some good positives last few days.

I think near the end of May many countries will start lifting some restrictions.

Is he re-exposing recovered persons to the virus or how is he proving this?

eagle eye

walshb wrote:

She developed three clear symptoms, and still attended work for several days. Ignorance and recklessness..

You are blaming the wrong person. Things were muddled by the testing conditions changing. The majority of people now believe that if you don't have a temperature you don't have covid-19 because you won't get a test without a temperature.

Cork Boy 53

owlbethere wrote: »

Its worrying from Trump. This isn't a time for causing conflict with China. He needs to cop on and deal with the tasks at hand that covid19 is causing instead of stirring the pot. Is there anyone to talk sense to him?

There are but unfortunately it seems that none of them are in a position to influence him.

owlbethere

walshb wrote: »

These excuses mean nothing..

Probably this and probably that...

Severe tiredness, headaches and sinus..

What excuses for the other two symptoms?

How are people and medical professionals going to tell the difference between hay-fever and covid19 this summer? We are now in hay-fever season and headache and sinus is common with hay-fever.

Are hay-fever sufferers supposed to isolate themselves when they start a sniffle and a headache and sinus just in case it's covid19?

walshb

Stheno wrote: »

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/symptoms-causes.html

HSE list tirednedand headache as sometimes a symptom

Dont list sinus at all apart from nasal congestion

Yes, she had three listed. Sinus issues are generally cold like feelings and runny nose. She didn’t go into detail.

Severe tiredness, headaches (awful heavy feeling in head) and sinus...

What else wax she wanting before it twigged that she “could” have it, and that maybe, rather than keep attending work, she might get tested and self isolate?

walshb

eagle eye wrote: »

You are blaming the wrong person. Things were muddled by the testing conditions changing. The majority of people now believe that if you don't have a temperature you don't have covid-19 because you won't get a test without a temperature.

That is incorrect..There was no muddling whatsoever!

They never ever changed the criteria for what could possibly be the illness.

The testing criteria was tweaked..

You can absolutely still have Covid and not have certain symptoms, sure some have no bloody symptoms..

She had three. She is a nurse...In a very volatile and risky area..

Professor Moriarty

walshb wrote: »

Yes, she had three listed. Sinus issues are generally cold like feelings and runny nose. She didn’t go into detail.

Severe tiredness, headaches (awful heavy feeling in head) and sinus...

What else wax she wanting before it twigged that she “could” have it, and that maybe, rather than keep attending work, she might get tested and self isolate?

There is research by WHO, based on confirmed cases, that suggests:

88 percent of infected people experienced a fever and 67.7 percent had a dry cough. Less frequent symptoms include thick mucus from coughs (sputum) (33.4 percent), shortness of breath (18.6 percent), sore throat (13.9 percent), and headache (13.6 percent).

Notmything

walshb wrote: »

For getting tests they tweaked the criteria...

But for general awareness they clearly stated that not one particular symptom was needed...

It could be any symptom or combination..

Everyone should have known this..

She developed three clear symptoms, and still attended work for several days. Ignorance and recklessness..

Think one clear lesson we are seeing is that symptoms can change and are not universal. Originally the focus appeared to be on developing a fever, but many never had this symptom. Likewise it's only in recent weeks that lose of smell has been suggested.

It's not hard to imagine that people developed a cough but because no fever presented thought they had something not covid19.

owlbethere

Notmything wrote: »

Is he re-exposing recovered persons to the virus or how is he proving this?

He probably reads blood work. Maybe it shows in blood work. I don't know.

wakka12

Looks like we should be seeing a steep decline in deaths in Spain soon. Belgium,France, UK appear to only be peaking/plateauing now, so it will be days or weeks before there is a large decline there. USA, Sweden, still on upward trajectory. Germany and Canada appear to be to be increasing but on an extremely flattened curve

walshb

Notmything wrote: »

Think one clear lesson we are seeing is that symptoms can change and are not universal. Originally the focus appeared to be on developing a fever, but many never had this symptom. Likewise it's only in recent weeks that lose of smell has been suggested.

It's not hard to imagine that people developed a cough but because no fever presented thought they had something not covid19.

Agreed.

However, the onus is on everyone to be careful and responsible

I can’t see how this can be spun or defended in any way..

Thought this, thought that, maybe this, maybe that...red herrings nonsense

Nurse. Hospital setting. Risk. Awareness.

Three clear symptoms, in her words it was obvious she was unwell..

Still decided to attend work just because no fever and cough..

I would not attend work if I had the symptoms she described, and I do not work in the health field, and I’d like to think nobody would be out and about with these symptoms...

And the end result was that the nurse tested positive...so all the red herrings and deflection and but this and but that is garbage. She had three symptoms, and was positive for the virus..

walshb

hawkelady wrote: »

So if someone has a headache now, they need to self isolate for 14 days ? Is that what you’re implying with your “ you do not need to have all symptoms”

You need to go away outta that!

Simple. You don’t need to have all symptoms.

Plain as day. Lost on your obtuseness..

She had three. One you may think, hmm maybe not. Two, hmm, could be Covid? Three? Come on, don’t be so ridiculous..You would surely think to take measures, at least..

eagle eye

walshb wrote:

That is incorrect..There was no muddling whatsoever!

Obviously you cannot read.

walshb

eagle eye wrote: »

Obviously you cannot read.

I can, clearly.

You said there was muddling. I said there wasn’t.

Not that difficult a conversation..

Kermit.de.frog

Sweden reports 111 new deaths (brings total so far over 1,500) (up from 67 yesterday)

Belgium reports 290 new deaths (down from 306 yesterday)

Netherlands reports 142 new deaths (down from 144 yesterday)

Mwengwe

MD1990 wrote: »

John Campbell has a video later that has evidence people are immune.

Large mjaority are immune . Video will be out later.
Oxford may have a vaccine in september also. Unlikely but seems to be going well.

ICU numbers going down too. Spain improving quite alot now too.
So some good positives last few days.

I think near the end of May many countries will start lifting some restrictions.

'Dr' John has the proof, eh?

DevilsHaircut

https://twitter.com/bmj_latest/status/1251239276538482689

Cork Boy 53

Sober Crappy Chemis wrote: »

O fearmongers, fearmongers, where art thou fearmongers ...predicting 85,000 Irish deaths?

If no restriction measures had been implemented and things had been allowed to carry on as normal then the death toll over the next 12 months would be at least that and likely more. That it doesn`t seem at present that it will be near that is precisely due to the restrictions being imposed. However if they are lifted too quickly and people go back to normal activities it could yet reach those levels.

Wombatman

Anyone who thinks we are doing well should read this carefully.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-and-care-homes-six-key-questions-1.4231703

The biggest question out of the six is:

"Are residents being left to die in nursing homes?"

A number of families with relatives in nursing homes have told The Irish Times they have been advised their loved ones will not be transferred to hospital if they contract Covid-19.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) has denied such a blanket policy is in place, though they say the default is to treat patients in their nursing homes unless a transfer to hospital is clinically indicated. The HSE has advised nursing homes to manage the disease in their own facilities and only transfer residents to hospitals where this would “confer additional benefit”.

One family told The Irish Times their nursing home, citing HSE “guidelines”, told them residents should not be sent for resuscitation in relation to Covid-19. NPHET have said no such guidelines are in place.

What happened at the Maryborough Centre in Portlaoise after nine people tragically died over Easter is instructive. The remaining 17 patients, some of whom are also reported to be positive for the disease, have been treated on site, rather than being brought to hospital.

Medical teams came out from Portlaoise hospital to treat the residents in their familiar environs. Public health officials maintain they got better treatment because of this approach.

Sober Crappy Chemis

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

If no restriction measures had been implemented and things had been allowed to carry on as normal then the death toll over the next 12 months would be at least that and likely more. That it doesn`t seem at present that it will be near that is precisely due to the restrictions being imposed. However if they are lifted too quickly and people go back to normal activities it could yet reach those levels.

No.

85,000 Irish people are not going to die from the virus.

Silly.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/GeorgeLeeRTE/status/1251070410696908800

You tell em George

Professor Moriarty

Wombatman wrote: »

Anyone who thinks we are doing well should read this carefully.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-and-care-homes-six-key-questions-1.4231703

The biggest question out of the six is:

"Are residents being left to die in nursing homes?"

I may be wrong, but would seem from the article that these people are being triaged on the basis that ICU treatment won't save their lives and I would assume they are receiving palliative care in the home instead. If your death is inevitable, that would be better than being needlessly intubated in ICU

smelly sock

What are posters views on the restrictions that will be relaxed / discontinued come the 5th of May?

I think the 2km distance will be either lifted or made greater.

Some retail outlets to be opened such as clothing amd electrical with strict social distancing measures in place.

Pubs, clubs amd restaurants to remain closed. Social distancing is probably to difficult when alcohol is consumed.


Work places to reopen. Building sites etc.

smelly sock

Wombatman wrote: »

Anyone who thinks we are doing well should read this carefully.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-and-care-homes-six-key-questions-1.4231703

The biggest question out of the six is:

"Are residents being left to die in nursing homes?"

Ffs. They are receiving pallative care etc where they are if they are dying. Or else admitted to a hospice.

What would be the point admitting them to ICU taking up a bed?

We are doing extremely well according to our CMO.

rebeve

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GeorgeLeeRTE/status/1251070410696908800

You tell em George

The Rte irrelevance correspondent .

nj27

smelly sock wrote: »

What are posters views on the restrictions that will be relaxed / discontinued come the 5th of May?

I think the 2km distance will be either lifted or made greater.

I'd say the 2k limit will have to go if the intent is to allow people to get back to work or have some kind of taste of normality. If they keep it or extend it a bit things won't change much from now.

Curious_Case

Logic dictates that the easing of restrictions will be on a TEST basis and subject to reversal IF they appear to have an OVERLY ADVERSE effect on transmission rates.

Obviously, there is no likelihood of keeping all restrictions in place, indefinitely, if a phased easing of them proceeds SUCCESSFULLY.

Some people are simply shouting "same, same, same, same" as if the situation is not going to evolve in any way going forward.

My thinking is that restrictions will begin to be eased in a matter of weeks BUT the response to new occurrences will be rapid, localised and focused.

Wombatman

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I may be wrong, but would seem from the article that these people are being triaged on the basis that ICU treatment won't save their lives and I would assume they are receiving palliative care in the home instead. If your death is inevitable, that would be better than being needlessly intubated in ICU

I think the nub of the question is who is making the call "that ICU treatment won't save their lives"? Nursing and care home don't usually have people on their staff qualified to make this call.

It's could be we are not seeing the demand on hospital, HDU and ICU beds, other countries are seeing, due to a conservative admission policy.

eagle eye

walshb wrote:

You said there was muddling. I said there wasn’t.

I said there was muddling in the minds of the public health changing the test conditions.
I read everything and I'm sure most regular posters on boards but the majority of people glance at things. So they say you are not getting tested unless you have a temperature them the vast majority think you don't have the virus unless you have a fever.

Professor Moriarty

Wombatman wrote: »

I think the nub of the question is who is making the call "that ICU treatment won't save their lives"? Nursing and care home don't usually have people on their staff qualified to make this call.

It's could be we are not seeing the demand on hospital, HDU and ICU beds, other countries are seeing, due to a conservative admission policy.

Possibly. I would hope that suitably qualified people are making the call. But it is a call that needs to be made both for the patient and the hospital.

eagle eye

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

You tell em George

Excellent but the Dumbo's won't look at that or just dismiss it unfortunately.

Level 42

Get rid of the 2km thing and get Leo's park rangers in tourist hot spots such as beaches parks etc. By restricting us to 2km we are stuffed into small areas risking contamination

Cork Boy 53

Sober Crappy Chemis wrote: »

No.

85,000 Irish people are not going to die from the virus.

Silly.

If restrictions are lifted too quickly and people carry on the same way as they did before the virus appeared, combined with a likely second wave next autumn/winter and no effective vaccine being developed, then the death rate could very well reach those levels over the next 12 months or so.

Gynoid

smelly sock wrote: »

What are posters views on the restrictions that will be relaxed / discontinued come the 5th of May?

I think the 2km distance will be either lifted or made greater.

Some retail outlets to be opened such as clothing amd electrical with strict social distancing measures in place.

Pubs, clubs amd restaurants to remain closed. Social distancing is probably to difficult when alcohol is consumed.


Work places to reopen. Building sites etc.

Don't worry! The working class will be sent out in greater numbers soon to test the waters! The white collar workers can observe behind clip boards or be informed in group mails at their desk in the den. If all goes well, then phew! Thank goodness, the economy. If numbers spike people like you will say
He/she looked a bit lardy in the obit photos
OR
Ffs! They had an underlying conditions obvs!
OR
Lookit, shrugs, they were probably going to die in the next few years anyway, what can ye do?
OR
There will be a rate of attrition, soldiers, but the main thing is we have to make money because that is the system, the agreement, the social contract and there is no other way.

So, patience, oh person with odiferous foot coverings. The great day will come.

walshb

eagle eye wrote: »

I said there was muddling in the minds of the public health changing the test conditions.
I read everything and I'm sure most regular posters on boards but the majority of people glance at things. So they say you are not getting tested unless you have a temperature them the vast majority think you don't have the virus unless you have a fever.

Whatever you said or are saying now...

Simple: The nurse tested positive. She had three symptoms and they turned out to be an alarm telling her she was positive..

She thought because no fever or cough that she was fine.

To me that is really obtuse and really ignorant..

The dogs on the street should know that there are several symptoms..not all need to be present..

Hell, people testing positive with none. We all know this...

Duke of Url

im being selfish but it would be great if they lifted restrictions on places like B&Q and Woodies.

keynes

Duke of Url wrote: »

im being selfish but it would be great if they lifted restrictions on places like B&Q and Woodies.

No reason why they shouldn't. These stores have plenty of open space, much more so than supermarkets.

John.Icy

If community transmission is near 0 as reported yesterday evening I don't see why we don't see some sort of leeway come the 5th of May, even in a small way. The virus is not seemingly being spread by walking past people in the park, or by joggers or by sunbathers or by people doing food shopping. Most surprised at the lack of infections being reported due to shopping trips, between staff at checkouts and general customers. My local Aldi does be rather packed despite limited entry. Aldi/Lidl have all their food typically in one outer ring aisle (with the helicopters and jet skis taking up the middle of the store of course), so even with less people you still had multiple people on top of one another at the fruit&veg or heads in the freezers. The 15 minutes within 2 metres seems to be a pretty good metric. It seems at this point post-lockdown a lot of new cases are infection spread in nursing/care homes, among health staff and familial spread in households.

The tricky thing is whats the point in say small clothes shops being allowed open. Without non-restricted human movement, it would not be worth their time opening with running costs if footfall is non-existent. Maybe hardware stores would be near the top in phased re-openings, never heard of so many people looking for paint in my life. At the end of the day, food shops etc have shown that retail can operate with some level of social distancing guidelines and the virus won't rapidly spread throughout shoppers. I think we'll eventually see a return of the no more than 50-100 people indoors (no pubs though) and no gatherings outside.

Fr_Dougal

Anyone who has tested positive should be given a barcode after 2 weeks. This along with ID should be needed to travel. Provide the authorities with scanning software to read this barcode, let the barcode contain name, address, DOB.

Duke of Url

Duke of Url wrote: »

im being selfish but it would be great if they lifted restrictions on places like B&Q and Woodies.

Some smaller hardware shops are open in Galway. Garden centres too.

Curious_Case

Duke of Url wrote: »

im being selfish but it would be great if they lifted restrictions on places like B&Q and Woodies.

I don't see why not, those places are never tightly packed.

smelly sock

Gynoid wrote: »

Don't worry! The working class will be sent out in greater numbers soon to test the waters! The white collar workers can observe behind clip boards or be informed in group mails at their desk in the den. If all goes well, then phew! Thank goodness, the economy. If numbers spike people like you will say
He/she looked a bit lardy in the obit photos
OR
Ffs! They had an underlying conditions obvs!
OR
Lookit, shrugs, they were probably going to die in the next few years anyway, what can ye do?
OR
There will be a rate of attrition, soldiers, but the main thing is we have to make money because that is the system, the agreement, the social contract and there is no other way.

So, patience, oh person with odiferous foot coverings. The great day will come.

Ok thanks !

zerosugarbuzz

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Anyone who has tested positive should be given a barcode after 2 weeks. This along with ID should be needed to travel. Provide the authorities with scanning software to read this barcode, let the barcode contain name, address, DOB.

Why not just microchip them and be done with it?

Kermit.de.frog

UK reports 888 new deaths and 5,525 new cases

WhiteMemento9

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Anyone who has tested positive should be given a barcode after 2 weeks. This along with ID should be needed to travel. Provide the authorities with scanning software to read this barcode, let the barcode contain name, address, DOB.

Coronavirus: Currently 'no evidence' that COVID-19 survivors have immunity, WHO warns

Not to mention the other awful aspects of this plan.

walshb

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

UK reports 888 new deaths and 5,525 new cases

Serious stuff!!!

sonofenoch

Duke of Url wrote: »

im being selfish but it would be great if they lifted restrictions on places like B&Q and Woodies.

Apparently you can order and collect from B&Q

Fr_Dougal

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Coronavirus: Currently 'no evidence' that COVID-19 survivors have immunity, WHO warns

Not to mention the other awful aspects of this plan.

Happy to hear your suggestions.

Mic 1972

smelly sock wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/dr-tony-holohan-we-think-weve-flattened-that-curve-so-much-that-there-is-no-peak-5077707-Apr2020/

Good man Tony. That'll stick in the throat of some of the dooms day merchants on here.

every country attempts at sugarcoating their local reality, we are not ready to lift restrictions

Curious_Case

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Anyone who has tested positive should be given a barcode after 2 weeks. This along with ID should be needed to travel. Provide the authorities with scanning software to read this barcode, let the barcode contain name, address, DOB.

I would be a staunch advocate of the use of ear tags, much more practical I think.

Red Tag - "Danger" Green Tag - "Safe" Grey Tag - "Boring"