Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

tayto lover

This is a very sad time for people with relatives in nursing homes.
My wife was passing our local nursing home this evening and she saw a man standing on the roof of his car looking over the wall. He was talking to someone on his phone, obviously a close relative who was in the garden, and the tears were running down his face.
There are obviously plenty of people like him. Very sad indeed.

Kermit.de.frog

God, he's such a jackass

JP Liz V1

Danzy wrote: »

Many very frail and elderly people die within hours of contracting it, hardly showing symptoms.

Yes so sad, dying without even getting to hospital for any help or treatment, it hits some so fast

Quantum Erasure

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

He's calling it "The Plague"

well, it is A plague, and its the most notable one around at the moment

owlbethere

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

God, he's such a jackass

I hate him. The world is facing a pandemic and all he can think of is the financial markets. If Leo stood up and spoke like that putting the banks and markets ahead of the health, safety and wellbeing of the nation, he would be fcuked out from it.

Stheno

Have the US figures jumped massively due to adding in presumed cases?

Jim_Hodge

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

well, it is A plague, and its the most notable one around at the moment

Technically it's not. Plagues are bacterial diseases.

Kermit.de.frog

Stheno wrote: »

Have the US figures jumped massively due to adding in presumed cases?

They have been adding them in at the end of the day over recent days.

owlbethere

"Phenomenal tests"

Please, trump, you pr1ck, shut your mouth.

Quantum Erasure

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Technically it's not. Plagues are bacterial diseases.

there's a plague of locusts in east Africa at the minute...

noun: plague;
1.
a contagious bacterial disease characterized by fever and delirium, typically with the formation of buboes ( bubonic plague ) and sometimes infection of the lungs ( pneumonic plague ).

any contagious disease that spreads rapidly and kills many people.

2.
an unusually large number of insects or animals infesting a place and causing damage.

3.
a thing causing trouble or irritation.

JP Liz V1

community transmission accounts for 52%, close contact accounts for 43%, travel abroad accounts for 5%

Hobgoblin11

ACitizenErased wrote: »

R0 has nothing to do with community transmission. It means that in the last few days, the majority of cases can be tracked to a source. It's not randomly floating around in the community.

sounds like nonsense , community transmission is at 52% regardless of source

Hamsterchops

Dank Janniels wrote: »

Well obviously! I posted it for its sheer stupidity

I for one would like closure on this, so who are the tanned ones you speak of? Are you being racist?

Stheno

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

sounds like nonsense , community transmission is at 52% regardless of source

Sigh

That's cumulative of all cases from the start.

Do you understand what that means?

Obviously this will be met with a load of "LOL sources pls" but in the town I'm in there's a nursing home where numerous residents have died, some have recovered, some are infected. 3 weeks ago the families were told that the residents will be made comfortable but that treatment outside of the facility wouldn't be happening. Make of that what ye will.

tobefrank321

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

community transmission accounts for 52%, close contact accounts for 43%, travel abroad accounts for 5%

All our cases initially stemmed from travel abroad. We don't have wet markets here so none started here.

It just demonstrates the damage a relatively small number of imported cases can do.

Close contact likely means family or workplace. We need to do better on family transmission. And consider isolating positives outside the home.

Community means untraceable.

expectationlost

Tony Holohan admitted that the testing criteria was too wide in early March ( at 20 minutes ) https://www.pscp.tv/rtenews/1vAxRBXVEoXxl this led to all the problems

Ace2007

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

sounds like nonsense , community transmission is at 52% regardless of source

Just out interest where did you get that number from?

Jim_Hodge

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

sounds like nonsense , community transmission is at 52% regardless of source

This is why they need to stop giving out so many figures. People don't seem to be able to comprehend most of them.

Every night there are copious posts that either don't understand or misinterpret them.

ElTel

Ace2007 wrote: »

Just out interest where did you get that number from?

https://geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/29dc1fec79164c179d18d8e53df82e96

New Home

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Technically it's not. Plagues are bacterial diseases.

Were the plagues of Egypt all bacterial infections?

plague [pleyg]
noun
1. an epidemic disease that causes high mortality; pestilence.
2. an infectious, epidemic disease caused by a bacterium, Yersinia pestis, characterized by fever, chills, and prostration, transmitted to humans from rats by means of the bites of fleas.Compare bubonic plague, pneumonic plague, septicemic plague.
3. any widespread affliction, calamity, or evil, especially one regarded as a direct punishment by God: a plague of war and desolation.

verb (used with object), plagued, pla·guing.
1. to trouble, annoy, or torment in any manner: The question of his future plagues him with doubt.
2. to annoy, bother, or pester: Ants plagued the picnickers.
3. to smite with a plague, pestilence, death, etc.; scourge: those whom the gods had plagued.
4. to infect with a plague; cause an epidemic in or among: diseases that still plague the natives of Ethiopia.
5. to afflict with any evil: He was plagued by allergies all his life.

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

Obviously this will be met with a load of "LOL sources pls" but in the town I'm in there's a nursing home where numerous residents have died, some have recovered, some are infected. 3 weeks ago the families were told that the residents will be made comfortable but that treatment outside of the facility wouldn't be happening. Make of that what ye will.

LOL sources pls

Stheno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Obviously this will be met with a load of "LOL sources pls" but in the town I'm in there's a nursing home where numerous residents have died, some have recovered, some are infected. 3 weeks ago the families were told that the residents will be made comfortable but that treatment outside of the facility wouldn't be happening. Make of that what ye will.

So did you ask all of these families that have family members in nursing homes if they had ever discussed end of life protocs before?

Its standard each three/six months especially if people are already frail/ill

Nonoperational

Deleted User wrote: »

Obviously this will be met with a load of "LOL sources pls" but in the town I'm in there's a nursing home where numerous residents have died, some have recovered, some are infected. 3 weeks ago the families were told that the residents will be made comfortable but that treatment outside of the facility wouldn't be happening. Make of that what ye will.

It is possible this is appropriate care. COVID 19 treatment consists of, dubious experimental drugs, oxygen, non invasive ventilation and intubation.

Most nursing home residents would never be candidates for ventilation, and oxygen can be provided in the nursing home. My grandmother would be in this camp, she's at home but a discussion was had with the GP and family that God forbid she got COVID (or any severe pneumonia) she would be made comfortable in her own home. Thats what she wanted and that was the appropriate decision.

The issue in imo, is if there is a blanket directive. Each case needs to be taken on its merits with patient, family, carer and doctor input.

growleaves

Were the plagues of Egypt all bacterial infections?

Jaysus lads.

There are technical, literal definitions of words and non-literal, more general usages.

Yous are ALL correct. Gold stars for everyone

This is a great way to spend a Saturday night. Please re-open pubs

Ace2007

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

sounds like nonsense , community transmission is at 52% regardless of source

ElTel wrote: »

https://geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/29dc1fec79164c179d18d8e53df82e96

That's all case from the start, it's not the current rate of community transmission.

Like if you think that page shows you that we have 52% transmission in the community - you would also have to read that as us having 571 deaths today and 14,758 infections, but we all know they are the totals.

tobefrank321

This covid crisis has really exposed the fact that most western leaders (and a few from other regions) are complete bullsh*tters.

ACitizenErased

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

sounds like nonsense , community transmission is at 52% regardless of source

If you followed the conversation I'm talking about current community spread. Let's just ignore the Department of Health, according to you.

Ace2007

tobefrank321 wrote: »

This covid crisis has really exposed the fact that most western leaders (and a few from other regions) are complete bullsh*tters.

Frank has it really taken a global pandemic for you to see this?

A politician whether in government or opposition will tell it's people whatever they want to hear - it shouldn't have taken this virus or you know to realise that.

Ace2007

Ace2007 wrote: »

I actually think DIY type places will open up and non building site tradesmen will be allow back to work, gardners/plumber/electricians etc, and see how that goes for a week or two.

What ever about gardeners, electricians and plumbers have been working but only for emergency calls as builders providers can provide the necessary materials if they wish to do so for emergencies.

Also most of the people from those trades that wouldn't be working on building sites would be older folks mainly or those working as part of a small contractor team on self builds etc in my experience.

Snow Garden

Akabusi wrote: »

Someone asked about the nursing homes, my aunt works in one, she was saying both the staff and occupants are now being tested even without showing symptoms. Thankfully the care home she is in hasn't had any confirmed cases so far.
They will have to be tested multiple times (the staff especially) over the coming weeks with a very quick result turn around for this to work. I hope the labs can manage this.

It's a little late though. They were crying out for equipment and testing 4 weeks ago when the HSE were prioritising the hospitals. I think there will be an inquiry into the handling of the nursing homes when the dust settles. Many relatives must be very angry.

DevilsHaircut

Initial UK NHS data on patients in ICU, inc. those on ventilators/advanced respiratory support.

https://icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports

https://twitter.com/Gas_Craic/status/1251441373347221504

fritzelly

Ace2007 wrote: »

That's all case from the start, it's not the current rate of community transmission.

Like if you think that page shows you that we have 52% transmission in the community - you would also have to read that as us having 571 deaths today and 14,758 infections, but we all know they are the totals.

I've been tracking all stats on my website - but even the official released numbers are all over the place - not sure how much faith you can put in them or the person who is responsible for publishing them. On the 14th April the numbers completely changed

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

1) I emphasised in my area and others may differ. I live on the effin road in question and yes a week ago traffic was noticeably lighter. And when I posted that there was a car passing by every few seconds. It's tailed off now, but it's anything but a ghost road(I just now took a minute as a guide and 8 cars passed my gaff in that time). Jaysus, I'll have to effin record it next. A mate's take on it - and he noticed it too. His area would be far lighter in traffic normally and it's pretty much dead now - is maybe because the same road has six supermarkets within ten minutes of it and it's shopping traffic. I reckon that's it. It does tend to die right back around 9-10 and doesn't kick off in the mornings until after 10. 10:30 for the dipsos. 12:30 tomorrow.

Oh and by the way, in case of any further misconceptions, I have no issue with this. I'm happier to see more traffic. It feels more "normal" and that's a good thing and you couldn't be any more "socially distant" than tootling along in a car. And yes I do think restrictions should be lifted and more businesses like DIY shops and the like should be open. If supermarkets and pet shops can be open and not cause any issues, I don't see why similarly sized places couldn't be up and running. Now I would very much prefer if they added masks/mouth and nose covering in such places, like they do in many places on the continent that are starting back up again, but the gov and the HSE and many Irish folks seem to have a very negative view on that, so pigs might fly.

OK, W.

JoChervil

I know nothing about nursing homes, so I am curious:

who pays for a care in a hospital of a resident of a nursing home? A resident or a nursing home?

Is treatment of Covid-19 in hospitals free?

New Home

JoChervil wrote: »

I know nothing about nursing homes, so I am curious:

who pays for a care in a hospital of a resident of a nursing home? A resident or a nursing home?

I would say it's paid by the residents through their fees.

J Mysterio

Very concerned with state of play in the US with the many, many shockingly stupid Republicans out protesting across the country in big crowds. This will likely lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths and risk a spread of 2nd wave transmissions bacm to the EU.

tobefrank321

Trump has left the building.

fritzelly

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Trump has left the building.

Trump left a long time ago

the.red.baron

Wibbs wrote: »

1) I emphasised in my area and others may differ. I live on the effin road in question and yes a week ago traffic was noticeably lighter. And when I posted that there was a car passing by every few seconds. It's tailed off now, but it's anything but a ghost road(I just now took a minute as a guide and 8 cars passed my gaff in that time). Jaysus, I'll have to effin record it next. A mate's take on it - and he noticed it too. His area would be far lighter in traffic normally and it's pretty much dead now - is maybe because the same road has six supermarkets within ten minutes of it and it's shopping traffic. I reckon that's it. It does tend to die right back around 9-10 and doesn't kick off in the mornings until after 10. 10:30 for the dipsos. 12:30 tomorrow.

Oh and by the way, in case of any further misconceptions, I have no issue with this. I'm happier to see more traffic. It feels more "normal" and that's a good thing and you couldn't be any more "socially distant" than tootling along in a car. And yes I do think restrictions should be lifted and more businesses like DIY shops and the like should be open. If supermarkets and pet shops can be open and not cause any issues, I don't see why similarly sized places couldn't be up and running. Now I would very much prefer if they added masks/mouth and nose covering in such places, like they do in many places on the continent that are starting back up again, but the gov and the HSE and many Irish folks seem to have a very negative view on that, so pigs might fly.

That's was at 7, mix of n road, main city roads

Your areas no different to any other, you said it was like any other Saturday night

Nowhere in the country is

And nowhere has it been a few cars an hour, unless you live in Roscommon now?

Ghost town full of police

I'm mean it's obvious night traffic is lighter, there's nowhere to go

Seamai

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Trump has left the building.

Did he ever enter it to begin?

Rob A. Bank

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Hobgoblin11

Ace2007 wrote: »

Just out interest where did you get that number from?

https://geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/29dc1fec79164c179d18d8e53df82e96

JoChervil

New Home wrote: »

I would say it's paid by the residents through their fees.

But is this fee the same each month or is it changing accordingly to what is performed? Because if this fee stays the same, so nursing homes would pay then?

Hobgoblin11

Stheno wrote: »

Sigh

That's cumulative of all cases from the start.

Do you understand what that means?

what's your point? Cumulative or not there is community transmissions its no time to be letting the foot of the pedal and leading ourselves into a false sense of security , you can catch this thing in the supermarket or on the street still , sigh, is better the a wheeze at least

Ace2007

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

https://geohive.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/29dc1fec79164c179d18d8e53df82e96

So by your logic we had 571 deaths today?

ShineOn7

Some numbers, stats and more from the Reddit user who digests the daily government briefings into one handy read. I'm not sure why they're going back to Wednesday with some of these stats though?

This was posted by them today;

New Cases: 597 (Germany: 112) Total Cases: 13980
New Death: 44
Total Deaths: 530
Male: 25
Female: 19
Median Age: 84
Underlying conditions: 25



Of the 530 deaths

Hospitalised + died in hospital: 316
Died in ICU: 45
Underlying conditions: 430
Male: 308
Female: 222 Median age: 83
Mean age: 69
Range: 25-105
Of 296 in ICU

• Remain in hospital: 153
• Discharged: 98
• Died: 45
• Underlying conditions: 243 (82%)
• Median Age: 60

As of Wednesday 15th

• Cases: 13012
• In Hospital: 2082
• In ICU: 294
• Deaths: 521
• Clusters: 436
• Account for 2723 cases
• Median age infected: 48
• Healthcare workers: 26%

Clusters

• Residential Homes: 261 > 1628 - cases notified
• Nursing Homes: 166 > 1008 - cases notified

4 actions have been identified to help expand current information set we have relating to residential homes (nursing homes, mental health institutes, specialist disability services)

1. Survey of mortality in longterm residential settings - January to April - Covid and non Covid, whether in hospital or long term residential centre
2. Increase testing of staff at long term residential settings - starting with nursing homes, and is an action of scale. 30,000 staff work in nursing homes
3. HIQA going to make a Covid 19 document, looking at preparedness of residential and nursing homes
4. Urgent implementation of previously implemented actions. Want to continue to see implementation across the country.

• An action tracker implemented to see how actions are progressing

Questions

• Not recommending that people bring someone from a nursing home back to the family home. Standing up and enhancing quality care being provided to individuals. Working with HIQA to give independent reporting to give assurance that the right measures that are specific to protecting people living in these settings is being taken. Best, safest place is to stay in the nursing home facility.
• If you are worried about your relatives in a nursing home, ring up the nursing home and speak to the family members. This will be helpful to reassure people.
• Testing to be expanded to 100,000 tests a week, every week. Want this to kick in as soon as possible. Some of this is based on our hope of the disease following the pattern where the disease is dropping. Case definition may be re-defined by the end of next week, and larger testing implemented the week after. Know already that the HSE is already on the way to giving us that capacity, though might not necessarily be ready to provide that as of now. We want spare capacity to be used in the next week to 10 days to test more staff and patients.
• Backlog with 100,000 tests a week? We want to turn this around within a short period of time. Our intention is to have sampling and testing done on real time basis. If we are lifting restrictions, we need to be able to catch an increase in cases in community as quickly as possible, so we cannot be delaying with the kinds of delays we were dealing with heretofore.
• Aggressively test and pursue all suspected cases in nursing home settings - both residents and staff.
• Priority now is to tackle the disease in nursing homes
• Asked Tony Holohan about the Keelings 'controversy' - "Are you comfortable with companies chartering flights?" No. Didn't know about it until after it had happened. Says it isn't consistent with public health advice that we are currently giving. Advice has been clear and consistent. Doesn't want to be critical, as only knows whats being reported in media. The issue of travel is kept on the agenda, and what arrangements might need to be in place in airports/seaports if we were to lift restrictions
• Have NPHET any learnings from countries who have lifted restrictions? A bit early to tell yet. Particularly interested in those in Europe. Those changes have only happened recently so not enough information about disease control. Would need 2-3 weeks of data to review before being able to make decisions. These then will help make our own decisions
• Gown shortages - NHS told to work without them. Is this an issue? No, this was dire at the weekend, but multiple plane loads arrived with gowns today. All elements of PPE are hard fought for and secured. So we want right staff to have them. We have some concerns about some of the masks, but Kilmallock are able to provide us with masks. Demand however is unprecedented. Not at the stage where we would be asking for PPE to be reused. Demands is much higher, especially when you consider a Covid patient that needs to be turned often, as new PPE is required each time. Batch of reagent from China that the HSE said they would be taking a risk with, and testing would need to happen. Can we really on this? Yes, we can. There was no real concern, but it had not yet been reconciled within the lab. It was not a reagent, but a test kit instead.
• 44 deaths announced today - that doesn't mean all 44 of those happened overnight. When you plot notifications against days death occurred, the peak was on the 7th (39 deaths). Don't take this as a fall in deaths, as there is always a lag. Notifications of deaths have been increasing.
• Deaths notified on a certain date, are different from the dates they actually occurred.

Ace2007

Hobgoblin11 wrote: »

what's your point?

his point is that 52% of all cases with community transmission, not 52% of new cases.

New Home

JoChervil wrote: »

But is this fee the same each month or is it changing accordingly to what is performed? Because if this fee stays the same, so nursing homes would pay then?

I would think it'd depend on the level of care required on a regular basis by the resident, i.e. a high-dependency patient (someone bed-ridden, or someone with advanced dementia or Alzheimer's but mobile) would be charged more than someone who's partially self-sufficient. There's usually a contract that needs to be signed when the person is admitted.

Nursing homes are businesses, they don't take on guests out of the goodness of their own heart.

LiquidZeb

J Mysterio wrote: »

Very concerned with state of play in the US with the many, many shockingly stupid Republicans out protesting across the country in big crowds. This will likely lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths and risk a spread of 2nd wave transmissions bacm to the EU.

I can see harsh restrictions being put on travel to and from the US. EU flight routes will be up and running again in the coming months but I can see America having some restrictions outside of the main mandatory routes New York, DC etc.