Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

snowcat

JanuarySnowstor wrote: »

Does anyone know a store that's selling weedkiller such as roundup? They seem to be primarily shut

Why would you use that poison? It has probably indirectly killed more humans than Covid ever will. Most humans have trace amounts in their systems and it is a known cancerogen. It will also kill a lot more than plants including bees and insects.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-04/roundup-cancer-risk-is-only-one-danger-to-humans-animals

bilston

smelly sock wrote: »

We have flattened the curve though and imposed savage restrictions on people.

The govt. did ok imo.

People were always going to die. Thats unfortunate and RIP to them but its life.

Its now time to start lifting lockdown and returning as many things to normal as possible.

My opinion on this is that the R value needs to be below 1, and probably a bit below 1 to allow room for an increase if you relax measures.

You then need to make sure there is hospital capacity.

Finally you need to be beyond the peak.

If all those tests are met then I would be in favour of a gradual relaxation of measures, maybe allow some non essential shops to re-open, very gradual. Then you need to wait 3 or 4 weeks and see whether the R value is still below 1 and whether there is still hospital capacity.

Basically you are seeing how far you can relax measures before you risk a second wave. Once that R Value goes above 1 you've gone too far and you are waiting for a Vaccine.

I'm just a regular member of the public and I'm not an expert on these matters and have no scientific qualifications. But I think that assuming we accept that the virus isn't going to just magically disappear and that it will be here until we get most of the population vaccinated then we can try and mitigate against it as best as possible. Relaxing any measures will represent a risk and I'm glad I'm not the one making those decisions.

Edit - I would also add that testing capacity needs to be high and effective enough that you can get a decent grasp on what the R value actually is.

smelly sock

Azatadine wrote: »

Pubs won't open this year or maybe next year either. Pubs, concerts etc will be the last things to come back. I doubt they will be back until a vaccine is available.

Id imagine pubs will have to open at some point this year. Same with all of the hospitality sector.

The amount of other jobs indirectly impacted by their indefinite closure is much big to leave them closed for 18 months.

Harry Palmr

RTE's coverage of this is terrible - charts are worthless unless we can read them.

Paddygreen

wadacrack wrote: »

Follow Austria . This will give an indication of what Ireland will do. ALL European countries will follow the same protocol . Slowly open back up when numbers are low enough for the healthcare system to function. Test, trace, isolate any exciting outbreaks

I think we should remain in lockdown for at least six months. I don't even think it go's far enough, everyone can exercise at home, people should only be left out once a week for a four hour shopping window, that's plenty. Also the last time I was clapping and woohooing out my landing window for our amazing Healthcare Heros I noticed that some of my neighbours were no longer doing so. I am keeping an eye out to see what they are up to, to see if they are still following the rules.

shamrockvilla

Azatadine wrote: »

Pubs won't open this year or maybe next year either. Pubs, concerts etc will be the last things to come back. I doubt they will be back until a vaccine is available.

Prophet of doom, why do you doubt pubs and restaurants won't open? People will get **** sick of being kept in lockdown and will let the politicians know this. And as everybody is aware, politicians just love to be popular.

Professor Moriarty

wadacrack wrote: »

Follow Austria . This will give an indication of what Ireland will do. ALL European countries will follow the same protocol . Slowly open back up when numbers are low enough for the healthcare system to function. Test, trace, isolate any exciting outbreaks

Test and trace worked well in Asian countries. Why reinvent the wheel. If we lag other European countries by a week or two, we can learn from their experiences and adjust accordingly.

snowcat

bilston wrote: »

My opinion on this is that the R value needs to be below 1, and probably a bit below 1 to allow room for an increase if you relax measures.

You then need to make sure there is hospital capacity.

Finally you need to be beyond the peak.

If all those tests are met then I would be in favour of a gradual relaxation of measures, maybe allow some non essential shops to re-open, very gradual. Then you need to wait 3 or 4 weeks and see whether the R value is still below 1 and whether there is still hospital capacity.

Basically you are seeing how far you can relax measures before you risk a second wave. Once that R Value goes above 1 you've gone too far and you are waiting for a Vaccine.

I'm just a regular member of the public and I'm not an expert on these matters and have no scientific qualifications. But I think that assuming we accept that the virus isn't going to just magically disappear and that it will be here until we get most of the population vaccinated then we can try and mitigate against it as best as possible. Relaxing any measures will represent a risk and I'm glad I'm not the one making those decisions.

We are below 1 on the R value. ICU occupancy is around 130 at the moment down from 160 so we should be ok there. Admissions are also down. We need to see some reduction in cases and we should be good to go. We need to get the economy moving asap

Cork Boy 53

joe40 wrote: »

Trumps travel ban was just to suit his anti China position. In terms of the actual corona virus he constantly downplayed the seriousness, to a level bordering on criminal negligence. The measures have been taken by individual states, the federal govt response has been a disaster.
Even now he is supporting clowns protesting the lockdown restrictions in Michigan.
In terms of world Leaders Trump has been shown up as a total clown.
The really sad thing is it may not affect his popularity.
His daughter and son in law are senior advisors. Neither of whom are in any way qualified. That would not happen in any other democracy.

Not just supporting them actually encouraging them and more in other states as well. This buffoon is not fit to hold office and should be removed ASAP.

bilston

Azatadine wrote: »

Pubs won't open this year or maybe next year either. Pubs, concerts etc will be the last things to come back. I doubt they will be back until a vaccine is available.

Big public events may not return for some time, I think pubs might re-open, but not as we know it, they would have to be able to come up with something to ensure social distancing is possible.

However pubs will be at the back of the queue.

Cafes and restaurants should be further up the list though.

smelly sock

snowcat wrote: »

We are below 1 on the R value. ICU occupancy is around 130 at the moment down from 160 so we should be ok there. Admissions are also down. We need to see some reduction in cases and we should be good to go. We need to get the economy moving asap

I think we will see a reopening of key economic drivers from next month. The building trade will be back on sites etc. Pubs and the like will probably start reopening come june/ July.

This thing is nearly behind. Id expect the next 2 weeks to really kill it.

Azatadine

shamrockvilla wrote: »

Prophet of doom, why do you doubt pubs and restaurants won't open? People will get **** sick of being kept in lockdown and will let the politicians know this. And as everybody is aware, politicians just love to be popular.

Why do you think? The virus would spread like hell through a pub environment. Physical distancing almost impossible to guarantee in a pub environment especially after a few drinks. I think the pubs will be the very last thing to open. Maybe not this year or even next year. Completely dependent on vaccine in my opinion.

Restaurants may open later this year as physical distancing can be maintained better. Probably table service only.

bunderoon

Harry Palmr wrote: »

RTE's coverage of this is terrible - charts are worthless unless we can read them.

And RTE arent stupid. So Joe soaps not being able to read them would be completely intentional.

ek motor

From Steven Swinford Deputy Political Editor, The Times:

Professor Sarah Gilbert, who is leading work on developing a vaccine at Oxford University, says that people who get the virus could be reinfected

'The coronavirus itself is very good at not leaving a strong immune memory'

BUT she says that the vaccination could last longer

bilston

wadacrack wrote: »

Follow Austria . This will give an indication of what Ireland will do. ALL European countries will follow the same protocol . Slowly open back up when numbers are low enough for the healthcare system to function. Test, trace, isolate any exciting outbreaks

Yep, all eyes on Austria and Denmark's numbers over the next two weeks. If they stay low then that will be good news.

smelly sock

Azatadine wrote: »

Why do you think? The virus would spread like hell through a pub environment. Physical distancing almost impossible to guarantee in a pub environment especially after a few drinks. I think the pubs will be the very last thing to open. Maybe not this year or even next year. Completely dependent on vaccine in my opinion.

Restaurants may open later this year as physical distancing can be maintained better. Probably table service only.

If we have the virus under control we'll be good to go for a pint. Dont be worrying.

Drumpot

jibber5000 wrote: »

I think the default is to base performances on the tone of the leader - Trump brash vs Leo sombre and thoughtful.

When you look closer and take out his pompous declarations, he's acted pretty well. The travel ban has been well discussed but it was a proactive move that saved lives. He also refused to give New York the 40,000 ventilators they said they needed. The correct number turned out to be under 10,000.

Our government let air travel come unabated from a highly infective region. Allowed the numbers of dead in nursing homes to reach almost 40% of the total and presided over a shambles of a testing system that had healthcare workers waiting 14 days for test results in some cases.

Trump has made a bad situation worse in USA.

Communication couldn’t be worse, have you watched his press briefings? His own advisers regularly have to correct his uniformed lies. That’s actually the best you can say as he’s been using them not to educate the nation but as an electoral platform.

The decision to ban flights to China wasn’t a blanket ban but equally there is a lot to suggest it was an opportunistic decision to have a go at China As opposed to it being a genius move. In short , it’s a decision that looks better now only because of what’s happened, not out of some insightful leadership.

Trump has shown no leadership qualities and done very little to help the USA in anything other then trying to paint a picture that it’s not so bad.

Trump is promoting that states open up and that people rise up against the lockdowns. How can you suggest he’s doing anywhere near a decent job comparable to anybody! USA is probably on course to be the worst affected country in the world.

Paddygreen

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Not just supporting them actually encouraging them and more in other states as well. This buffoon is not fit to hold office and should be removed ASAP.

I hear that big orange toxic white male tycoon has actually given individual states the green light to decide if they remain in lockdown or not! How dare he. The US needs Hillary Clinton now more than ever, at least she is sane.

wadacrack

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Test and trace worked well in Asian countries. Why reinvent the wheel. If we lag other European countries by a week or two, we can learn from their experiences and adjust accordingly.

Reinvent the Wheel? What I described is basically the approach taken in Asia

Professor Moriarty

wadacrack wrote: »

Reinvent the Wheel? What I described is basically the approach taken in Asia

I was agreeing with you.

Professor Moriarty

Paddygreen wrote: »

I hear that big orange toxic white male tycoon has actually given individual states the green light to decide if they remain in lockdown or not! How dare he. The US needs Hillary Clinton now more than ever, at least she is sane.

He had no choice legally. But in 'granting' them permission he now has someone else to blame. The governors opened up too soon, too late, blah blah.

jibber5000

Drumpot wrote: »

Trump has made a bad situation worse in USA.

Communication couldn’t be worse, have you watched his press briefings? His own advisers regularly have to correct his uniformed lies. That’s actually the best you can say as he’s been using them not to educate the nation but as an electoral platform.

The decision to ban flights to China wasn’t a blanket ban but equally there is a lot to suggest it was an opportunistic decision to have a go at China As opposed to it being a genius move. In short , it’s a decision that looks better now only because of what’s happened, not out of some insightful leadership.

Trump has shown no leadership qualities and done very little to help the USA in anything other then trying to paint a picture that it’s not so bad.

Trump is promoting that states open up and that people rise up against the lockdowns. How can you suggest he’s doing anywhere near a decent job comparable to anybody! USA is probably on course to be the worst affected country in the world.

Nobody said it was insightful leadership. But he did it and that's part of the reason that the vast majority of states have low infection rates.

It's going to be worse because of sheer population and accurate reporting. Per capita as I've said earlier it's right beside us.

Again most states have seen the peak of the curve. Should they all stay shut because of new York?

Have you seen the unemployment numbers? If you think a continued shut down won't destroy millions of lives you're delusional.

Paddygreen

Azatadine wrote: »

Why do you think? The virus would spread like hell through a pub environment. Physical distancing almost impossible to guarantee in a pub environment especially after a few drinks. I think the pubs will be the very last thing to open. Maybe not this year or even next year. Completely dependent on vaccine in my opinion.

Restaurants may open later this year as physical distancing can be maintained better. Probably table service only.

Amazing comment, 110% with you bruv. Pubs should not open for at least another year. People want to have fun at a time like this when the grim reaper is stalking the country. Come on ffs, have they no shame?

Paddygreen

Paddygreen wrote: »

I hear that big orange toxic white male tycoon has actually given individual states the green light to decide if they remain in lockdown or not! How dare he. The US needs Hillary Clinton now more than ever, at least she is sane.

Nope he was informed that he doesn't have the power to decide if they will or not because he didn't go down the federal route and show up his leadership.
So he's going on Twitter and having a huff as usual promoting people carrying guns on protests.

Hillary is a c`nt but a lot of American folks I work with would prefer to have her in the white house now.

shamrockvilla

Azatadine wrote: »

Why do you think? The virus would spread like hell through a pub environment. Physical distancing almost impossible to guarantee in a pub environment especially after a few drinks. I think the pubs will be the very last thing to open. Maybe not this year or even next year. Completely dependent on vaccine in my opinion.

Restaurants may open later this year as physical distancing can be maintained better. Probably table service only.

Can you not have table service in a pub?

snowcat

jibber5000 wrote: »

Nobody said it was insightful leadership. But he did it and that's part of the reason that the vast majority of states have low infection rates.

It's going to be worse because of sheer population and accurate reporting. Per capita as I've said earlier it's right beside us.

Again most states have seen the peak of the curve. Should they all stay shut because of new York?

Have you seen the unemployment numbers? If you think a continued shut down won't destroy millions of lives you're delusional.

The States as far as I know are not included deaths in Nursing homes. Most countries have different reporting methods for deaths so the death rate per million is not an accurate barometer. Belgium for instance is showing a very high death rate per million but will possibly revise that down as they are including suspected cases as well.

Drumpot

bilston wrote: »

Yep, all eyes on Austria and Denmark's numbers over the next two weeks. If they stay low then that will be good news.

Just trying to think about potential good news scenarios That allows the world to adapt pending a vaccine:

— better understanding and techniques to manage virus in advance of vaccine
— healthcare systems able to manage infected (herd immunity strategies)
— immunity in infected people who have recovered
— effective social distancing
— effective compliance from populations
— Information That Shows lower CFR (Closer to flu) then thought which would equally mean that a lot more people have been infected then we think
— better global relations (unlikely while Trump is in office, he needs scapegoats for his handling of this)

Roger_007

Paddygreen wrote: »

I think we should remain in lockdown for at least six months. I don't even think it go's far enough, everyone can exercise at home, people should only be left out once a week for a four hour shopping window, that's plenty. Also the last time I was clapping and woohooing out my landing window for our amazing Healthcare Heros I noticed that some of my neighbours were no longer doing so. I am keeping an eye out to see what they are up to, to see if they are still following the rules.

You obviously don’t need to earn any money to put bread on the table, or maybe you’re in a nice cushy government job or government supported job where you get full pay indefinitely even if you don't work a day for the next six months or a year or maybe more.
Some people need to work to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads. It’s not exercise we need, it’s an income.

maddog

Forget this year as its lost to the virus, SARS = 18yrs in the wild = NO Vaccine
SARS Covid II is what they call this virus, there has been no vaccines made for a human corona virus.

Duke of Url

Pubs and restaurants could open tomorrow. I think you will find that the people eager for these places to open will find that most of their friends will decline invitations to meet up in the pub or go for dinner.

Hamsterchops

Azatadine wrote: »

Pubs won't open this year or maybe next year either. Pubs, concerts etc will be the last things to come back. I doubt they will be back until a vaccine is available.

Sixteen to eighteen months away . . .

s1ippy

https://www.newstalk.com/news/covid-19-schools-pubs-events-1002147

Simon Harris saying we'll be fúckin the children out the door to school in a few weeks time. The biggest vector of transmission is people coming to gather in large groups from all over the counties in dusty pokey classrooms. I honestly think he just says whatever sh!t comes into his thick head these days to see what sticks.

I know a few parents are probably hoping they'll get a bit of free babysitting for the sunny months (and then, free hospital treatment? And a free cremation?)

I also know a few leaving cert students refusing to come in for exams and rightly so, they are nearly epidemiologists at this stage. This guy certainly asks the right questions.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/plan-to-postpone-the-leaving-cert-dogged-by-dozens-of-unanswered-questions-1.4228625?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Hamsterchops

Regarding the schools reopening, I can only presume we're taking a leaf out of the Swedish approach, which (I'm told) has been very successful.

Harry Palmr

maddog wrote: »

Forget this year as its lost to the virus, SARS = 18yrs in the wild = NO Vaccine
SARS Covid II is what they call this virus, there has been no vaccines made for a human corona virus.

Only because those virus effectively blew themselves out, the market needs a market the market wasn't big enough so all work on vaccines ended. Which just goes to show how public health needs looking after by the state and not private enterprise.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091

Higgins5473

Azatadine wrote: »

Why do you think? The virus would spread like hell through a pub environment. Physical distancing almost impossible to guarantee in a pub environment especially after a few drinks. I think the pubs will be the very last thing to open. Maybe not this year or even next year. Completely dependent on vaccine in my opinion.

Restaurants may open later this year as physical distancing can be maintained better. Probably table service only.

I’m in agreement with you. There is talk of schools reopening one day a week. I’m curious as to why a pub would be any different to a classroom. Is it not just as stupid to propose pubs open one day a week. Schools are mass gatherings and in the case of primary schools a lot of the children will not fully understand what is happening, not be as vigilant with all the precautions. I’m baffled by how this is part of Harris’ proposals.

Danzy

jibber5000 wrote: »

Nobody said it was insightful leadership. But he did it and that's part of the reason that the vast majority of states have low infection rates.

It's going to be worse because of sheer population and accurate reporting. Per capita as I've said earlier it's right beside us.

Again most states have seen the peak of the curve. Should they all stay shut because of new York?

Have you seen the unemployment numbers? If you think a continued shut down won't destroy millions of lives you're delusional.

Jibber has a point here. America is doing well with it so far.

A continued lockdown there will lead to a severe global depression.

It must be balanced and there will be no return to normal.

Drumpot

jibber5000 wrote: »

Nobody said it was insightful leadership. But he did it and that's part of the reason that the vast majority of states have low infection rates.

It's going to be worse because of sheer population and accurate reporting. Per capita as I've said earlier it's right beside us.

Again most states have seen the peak of the curve. Should they all stay shut because of new York?

Have you seen the unemployment numbers? If you think a continued shut down won't destroy millions of lives you're delusional.

Ah would you Trump getting something right for the wrong reasons is not something that can be used to defend his awful handling of this crisis.

So the US states are different from the rest of the world because what exactly? Why are they ready to open up? Who is saying that? Reputable People in the field or politicians?

What has unemployment numbers got to do with stopping the virus? So the USA is gonna open up because it’s not capable of protecting its most vulnerable and people have to work or die. That’s not a country I would be holding up as a positive benchmark.

wakka12

Movementarian wrote: »

You're looking at a point in time there and drawing a conclusion way too early. US cases are growing faster then ours which will mean more ICU cases and sadly more deaths. They are being lead towards a cliff if lockdown measures arent being coordinated across the various states that share borders etc. They have also effectively not ramped up testing in many states so the chances are theres a lot of spread thats not being caught. In that regard we are doing a much better job.

I dont think its actually growing that much faster than Ireland. USA has the same number of deaths per capita as us pretty consistently for the last few days even weeks now.

But then again, theres two sides to the situation in the US. Case and deaths in New York are like 10x times higher than Ireland,much higher than Ireland in Boston, New Orleans, New Jersey as well, but in many other states they are probably many less cases occurring than in Ireland, just the average of those two situations is the same as Ireland

Pitch n Putt

wadacrack wrote: »

Follow Austria . This will give an indication of what Ireland will do. ALL European countries will follow the same protocol . Slowly open back up when numbers are low enough for the healthcare system to function. Test, trace, isolate any exciting outbreaks

Yes watch our government and advisory team follow the likes of Austria ,Denmark etc regarding lifting of restrictions.

It’s a pity that they couldn’t follow what was happening in Italy ,Spain regarding nursing homes ,care homes and elderly in general.

It was there in front of them but they dropped the ball and were two weeks late protecting these environments when they had probably three weeks prior notice and clear facts available from countries two weeks ahead of ours.

It’s shocking what happened and there seems to be a bit of backtracking and covering up now.

RIP to all those lost.

Roger_007

polesheep wrote: »

Once you realise that paddygreen is trolling, he's actually entertaining.

Trolling or not, there are many people saying the same thing. One teacher I know says that she doesn’t care if the schools are closed till Christmas. It’s well for her, she gets full pay for doing nothing.

Professor Moriarty

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Regarding the schools reopening, I can only presume we're taking a leaf out of the Swedish approach, which (I'm told) has been very successful.

Sweden's mortality rate is higher than ours.

polesheep

Roger_007 wrote: »

Trolling or not, there are many people saying the same thing. One teacher I know says that she doesn’t care if the schools are closed till Christmas. It’s well for her, she gets full pay for doing nothing.

True. I see people saying that they won't allow their children back to school until there is a vaccine. Scaring people worked to achieve a lockdown. Now the various governments will have to put as much effort into reassuring people. A vaccine may never be found and people need to be made aware of this.

youandme13

Even one day a week, how are they going to make sure 35 children in a room keep social distancing? I know my sons class all go mad after even a week off after not seeing each other.

Lundstram

Roger_007 wrote: »

Trolling or not, there are many people saying the same thing. One teacher I know says that she doesn’t care if the schools are closed till Christmas. It’s well for her, she gets full pay for doing nothing.

Hopefully they'll be the first PS employees to have their salary clipped once all this is over and all those €350s need to be paid back somehow. People need to remember this time when they're threatening to strike yet again.

jibber5000

Drumpot wrote: »

Ah would you Trump getting something right for the wrong reasons is not something that can be used to defend his awful handling of this crisis.

So the US states are different from the rest of the world because what exactly? Why are they ready to open up? Who is saying that? Reputable People in the field or politicians?

What has unemployment numbers got to do with stopping the virus? So the USA is gonna open up because it’s not capable of protecting its most vulnerable and people have to work or die. That’s not a country I would be holding up as a positive benchmark.

Because you can't look at one in isolation.

No point saying ive fixed my broken ankle, all I had to do was cut off my leg.

If the US stays in lockdown for months tens of millions will be adversely affected. You'll have increased mental health issues, suicides, people turning to drugs.

I think it's easy for some people, who usually have well paid fixed jobs, to judge people who don't know where theyre going to get money to feed their family.

irishlad.

youandme13 wrote: »

Even one day a week, how are they going to make sure 35 children in a room keep social distancing? I know my sons class all go mad after even a week off after not seeing each other.

I can tell you now, social distancing will go out the window. I could not guarantee that kind of social distancing in a classroom. Keeping the parents 2m apart outside the door will be another problem!

youandme13

polesheep wrote: »

A vaccine may never be found and people need to be made aware of this.

I've said that to a few people to be told don't be silly! But in reality they still don't have a vaccine for SARRS which is a cousin of covid19!

stephenjmcd

polesheep wrote: »

True. I see people saying that they won't allow their children back to school until there is a vaccine. Scaring people worked to achieve a lockdown. Now the various governments will have to put as much effort into reassuring people. A vaccine may never be found and people need to be made aware of this.

There is absolutely no point in waiting for a vaccine to reopen things.
Now I'd like a phased reopening over a number of months, not everything at one go, that would just be madness. But the notion that we can't have gatherings until a vaccine is just not feasible, vaccine doesn't have a time line and nobody knows if it'll even work. As the WHO keeps saying we'll have to learn to live alongside this.

Sam Russell

jibber5000 wrote: »

Yet our death rate is nearly identical to the US.

118 per million US
116 per million Ireland

The way it's portrayed by the media here we're doing a brilliant job and trump is leading them off a cliff.

All absolute nonsense of course.

The nonsense is in your comparison.

Try comparing Ireland with NY State.

The disease is a plague, and sweeps through countries - particularly one as big as the USA. Your comparison would be valid in a decade when this is all over. It has not reached most of the USA yet.

Most would think we have a very poor health service compared with other countries, particularly the UK. However, the UK has the NHS buckling while our HSE has managed to not run out of ventilators or ICU beds.

We are doing well, because most people are observing the rules. The published figures are historic in that hospitalisation occurs about 15 days after infection, and death 20 to 30 days after infection. Testing is ramping up and has been since it started.

Nursing homes are a problem for several reasons. The care required by residents is very close contact and impossible to provide without risk of infection. The staff are moving from one home to another because more staff are required to cope. They are private businesses and have minimal equipment to cope with the current epidemic. The HSE are now providing PPE to them which was difficult to source for the homes due to worldwide shortages.

It is the Irish population that are fighting this and it is only by all of us continuing this fight by following the rules will we conquer it. The HSE and Dept of Health can only exhort us to do so.

Let us hope that those who choose to ignore the rules are few and will not effect the result. There are always selfish vandals, idiots and criminals in society which we try to control with varying success.

Cork Boy 53

polesheep wrote: »

Once you realise that paddygreen is trolling, he's actually entertaining.

Indeed. Paddy is the boards.ie version of Oliver Callan. Problem is some posters here seem to take him seriously.