Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

jibber5000

lawred2 wrote: »

How are deaths being counted here compared to the US? Unless the exact same criteria are applied then that figure is not comparable.

Broadly the same. Nursing homes are counted in both countries not like the UK.

In Ireland we are undercounting by a small number.
Upto now have been using Pcr testing. It has sensitivity of 70%. Some patients who died had negative Pcr tests despite being highly likely to have covid. False negatives.

In America they count those with a high clinical probability as positive as well as those who die of other cause but are covid positive ie a stroke.

So although these examples are definitely small do indicate that we're very slightly under reporting and they're slightly over reporting.

coastwatch

growleaves wrote: »

By the way if covid-19 has a mortality rate 20 times greater than the flu then, even discounting for greater infectiousness, it would kill 12.5 million people in a typical year.

So far the total deaths are at 161,000 after five months.

Thats because everybody is stuck at home trying not to catch it.

crossman47

jibber5000 wrote: »

Broadly the same. Nursing homes are counted in both countries not like the UK.

In Ireland we are probably undercounting by circa 5%. Upto now have been using Pcr testing. A number of patients who have died did so with negative PCt

Not sure about that https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/covid-19-deaths-recorded-in-nursing-homes-crosses-2k/ar-BB12sSWi

Sam Russell

growleaves wrote: »

By the way if covid-19 has a mortality rate 20 times greater than the flu then, even discounting for greater infectiousness, it would kill 12.5 million people in a typical year.

So far the total deaths are at 161,000 after five months.

A lot of countries are not testing sufficiently to identify all deaths due to Covid.

Also, most countries are selective in the deaths they count as Covid deaths. The UK does not include deaths in care homes and only test in hospitals. Our care home deaths are close to 50% of all deaths and we are now concentrating on those, yet UK deaths are 2.5 times ours on a per capita basis yet do not include care home.

Per capita deaths is not a valid metric, by the way.

NegativeCreep

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/broadways-nick-cordero-to-have-leg-amputated-after-coronavirus-complications-994821.html

Broadway actor to lose his leg due to coronavirus complications. This is terrible. It’s also the first I’ve heard of any amputations due to the virus. Has this happened before?

Monitor1985

This might have been asked before, but this forum is moving so quick it's hard to keep up.

Has our backlog now been cleared?

And are all the tests now coming back from Germany as up to date with the confirmed cases in Irish labs?

So basically, at which point can we start taking Irish confirmed and German confirmed cases as one figure?

Or are the cases still coming back from the German labs still part of the backlog?

Drumpot

jibber5000 wrote: »

This is from the last recession when unemployment was roughly half what it is.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4880023/

When you're multiplying this by tens of millions it's a massive issue.

Dr Fauci appears to be a man of honour and integrity.

He stated whenever he asked trump to place restrictions he agreed immediately. If he had such a massive issue with trumps staggered opening you don't think he'd be saying it on one of his numerous tv appearances?

All these critics are placing their own extensive public health knowledge above Dr Fauci.

You didn’t address anything I said at all. This seems to be a tactic with those defending Trump, just keep moving to different things until people give up discussion, which I will admit I’m close to at this stage.

Donald Trump sacks those who disagree with him, bullies his staff and admitted that he will give more support to states that show him some sort of respect.

Before briefings specialists have to praise trump simply to massage his ego before quite often saying the exact opposite to what the president said. Selectively quoting Fauci, who does appear to be an honorable man navigating a relationship with a dishonourable president , is disingenuous. There is more then enough evidence to show that Trump is a disaster to work for and is incapable of doing the right thing for the right reason because any decision he makes or things he say are about self promotion on some capacity.

I can’t fathom how anybody could fail to see this.

wakka12

growleaves wrote: »

It also widespread in places where it kills less than the flu, i.e. the UK. Lombardy, Madrid, NYC aren't representative of the whole world.



What model are you working off of?

For the UK the Imperial College prediction was 510,000 deaths without mitigation measures and a third of that - lets say 150k approx - with mitigation measures.

The UK has used mitigation measures and the result is 15,000 deaths so far.

That's if you even believe in the measures which are unproven.



Morality rate is unknown. Infectiousness is unknown. Although virologists who have researched it already believe it is far less less than believed.



Proof?

You are not considering the unreported death toll, UK has up to 50% unreported deaths, going off the fact that in Ireland 50% of deaths occurred at home and in nursing homes. So UK may have over 31,000 deaths currently, already far more than the 28,000 figure you used. And 99% of these covid deaths occurred within the last FOUR weeks, not a whole year.

So the places where we know it is definitely widespread such as Lombardy, NYC, Madrid, London, Blegium and killing multiples of the seasonal flu averages are not representative of the damage the disease can cause in your opinion. And an entirely theoretically unnoticed/unknown/unverified spread of COVID throughout much of the rest of the world may be representative in your mind, and a valid comparison to the seasonal flu deaths which occur on a globally spread scale over an entire year ? That is a pretty awful argument

YOure asking somebody else for proof when youre trying to claim COVID is killing less people than seasonal flu, when it is just so utterly false

jibber5000

crossman47 wrote: »

Not sure about that https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/covid-19-deaths-recorded-in-nursing-homes-crosses-2k/ar-BB12sSWi

I took that as meaning they had gone into the final data but they did not have the indivialised data for the nursing home figures?

declanflynn

gabeeg wrote: »

So what you're saying is the government intentionally let people die, but are still doing a good job.

Fascinating insight, Decky

No, they tried to save everyone that's why they took over the private hospitals, ordered plane loads of ppe, introduced lockdown and a host of other measures, can you tell me which western countries have zero deaths?

growleaves

BattleCorp wrote: »

You can't compare COVID-19 and the flu. Economies aren't shut down to deal with the flu.

This is circular logic. Shutting down the economy doesn't prove that this coronavirus is deadlier than other diseases. You could shut down the economy over a bad flu if you wanted to. Or not.

So far we have had 161,000 deaths with extreme social distancing measures in place. Do you not acknowledge that the death rate would be far higher if we took no social distancing/lockdown measures?

Higher perhaps. I have an issue with the far part.

Since the projections of deaths with mitigation measures turned out to be inflated, then projections of deaths without mitigation measures should not be taken at face value.

I would like to see some serious research comparing un-locked-down states - Sweden, Belarus, Iowa, South Dakota, Taiwan - with locked down states for a way to gauge how effective lockdown is.

In the past there were no lockdowns for pandemics which killed 1 million, 2 million and more.

podgeandrodge

gmisk wrote: »

She is getting the clap as opposed to giving a clap for NHS workers

Getting the clap, or giving it?

coastwatch

NegativeCreep wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/broadways-nick-cordero-to-have-leg-amputated-after-coronavirus-complications-994821.html

Broadway actor to lose his leg due to coronavirus complications. This is terrible. It’s also the first I’ve heard of any amputations due to the virus. Has this happened before?

I see he was on an ECMO machine, which is a life support machine that does the work of the lungs and heart. I think thats where the complications came from.

podgeandrodge

Interesting article. Not conspiracy theory. Just potential possibilities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/

Mic 1972

NegativeCreep wrote: »

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/broadways-nick-cordero-to-have-leg-amputated-after-coronavirus-complications-994821.html

Broadway actor to lose his leg due to coronavirus complications. This is terrible. It’s also the first I’ve heard of any amputations due to the virus. Has this happened before?

he is only 40 year old :-(

jibber5000

Drumpot wrote: »

You didn’t address anything I said at all. This seems to be a tactic with those defending Trump, just keep moving to different things until people give up discussion, which I will admit I’m close to at this stage.

Donald Trump sacks those who disagree with him, bullies his staff and admitted that he will give more support to states that show him some sort of respect.

Before briefings specialists have to praise trump simply to massage his ego before quite often saying the exact opposite to what the president said. Selectively quoting Fauci, who is an honorable man navigating a relationship with a dishonourable president , is disingenuous. There is more then enough evidence to show that Trump is a disaster to work for and is incapable of doing the right thing for the right reason because any decision he makes or things he say are about self promotion on some capacity.

I can’t fathom how anybody could fail to see this.

CBS tried to place words in Faucis mouth and he shot them down?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fauci-shoots-down-cbs-reporter-trying-to-drive-wedge-between-him-and-trump%3f_amp=true

I'm quoting his head of public health. He makes the recommendations. I've already proven Trump follows them. You've gone off topic with no evidence because you dislike Trump.
Stick to the question at hand and show me proof where Trump overruled his public health experts?

growleaves

wakka12,

Flu deaths are also packed into short stints.

We went over this last week remember? The important thing is the length of the epidemic. If we are peaking or have peaked then there aren't going to be tens of millions of corpses with or without economic embargoes.

Danzy

growleaves wrote: »

Nope. Even with inflated figures there's no hiding the reality:

A few years ago influenza killed 28,000 in the UK. Coronavirus deaths are at 15,000.

If the disease has peaked, which many epidemologists seem to think (including the 'official' ones), then its just an ordinary coronavirus like other coronaviruses.

If you were to take a bad flu year which killed 650,000 globally (upper end of the spectrum) and follow it breathlessly day by day, look at cases and deaths every day, focus on deaths from lack of ICU capacity, which does happen, the emotional result would be the same.

You might not be aware but that is with a tight lockdown.

It would not be the same, 650k is not a lot of dead, it's a blip.

Paddygreen

Duke of Url wrote: »

Pubs and restaurants could open tomorrow. I think you will find that the people eager for these places to open will find that most of their friends will decline invitations to meet up in the pub or go for dinner.

Nonsense, I think the opposite. If pubs were opened tomorrow it would be like the world cup, st Stephens day and a ZZ top concert all rolled into one.

Drumpot

jibber5000 wrote: »

CBS tried to place words in Faucis mouth and he shot them down?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fauci-shoots-down-cbs-reporter-trying-to-drive-wedge-between-him-and-trump%3f_amp=true

I'm quoting his head of public health. He makes the recommendations. I've already proven Trump follows them. You've gone off topic with no evidence because you dislike Trump.
Stick to the question at hand and show me proof where Trump overruled his public health experts?

Stick to the questions? Lol, you didn’t answer anything I’ve said, try practising what you preached. You’ve shifted goal posts every post you’ve made.... I will leave it there as there is no reward in this Sort of discussion, I despise Trump (that doesn’t make points on his awful handling on this irrelevant) but can only deal in logic and there is none when defending him is concerned, only obfuscation of facts and information dumping that proves nothing.

Mic 1972

growleaves wrote: »

This is circular logic. Shutting down the economy doesn't prove that this coronavirus is deadlier than other diseases. You should shut down the economy over a bad flu if you wanted to. Or not.



Higher perhaps. I have an issue with the far part.

Since the projections of deaths with mitigation measures turned out to be inflated, then projections of deaths without mitigation measures should not be taken at face value.

I would like to see some serious research comparing un-locked-down states - Sweden, Belarus, Iowa, South Dakota, Taiwan - with locked down states for a way to gauge how effective lockdown is.

In the past there were no lockdowns for pandemics which killed 1 million, 2 million and more.

A lot of people living in no-lock-down countries are still isolating themselves and avoiding public places for their own safety. There is no place that can be used as a reference of what happens without lock down

Mic 1972

Paddygreen wrote: »

Nonsense, I think the opposite. If pubs were opened tomorrow it would be like the world cup, st Stephens day and a ZZ top concert all rolled into one.

young people maybe, but anyone who has concerns about their health and their families would steer clear

growleaves

You might not be aware but that is with a tight lockdown.

I was wondering why town seemed so quiet on a Saturday.

timsey tiger

Is there any graph showing just the hospital deaths in Ireland. I guess these would be reported on a same day or next day at worst basis, so should give a better idea of how much deaths are dropping since the peak. If we have passed the peak, that is.

jibber5000

Drumpot wrote: »

Stick to the questions? Lol, you didn’t answer anything I’ve said, try practising what you preached. You’ve shifted goal posts every post you’ve made.... I will leave it there as there is no reward in this Sort of discussion, I despise Trump (that doesn’t make points on his awful handling on this irrelevant) but can only deal in logic and there is none when defending him is concerned, only obfuscation of facts and information dumping that proves nothing.

But everything you talked about in your original post was premised on the fact that he goes off on solo runs and is a nightmare to work with.

Fauci could have said nothing but stood up and defended Trump.

Trumps policy I've proven has been governed by Public health experts. Everything else you talked about was white noise in the grand scheme of things.

You've let your personal feelings get in the way of the facts.

growleaves

A lot of people living in no-lock-down countries are still isolating themselves and avoiding public places for their own safety. There is no place that can be used as a reference of what happens without lock down

In that case the efficacy of lockdown isn't falsifiable - and therefore scientifically no can claim it is effective, and no honest person would even attempt to.

Its in the realm of metaphysical assumptions rather than science.

bodhrandude

Any word on a rescheduled gig for Nick Mason's Saucerful of Secrets which is supposed to be happening at the Convention Centre in Dublin in ten days time.

wadacrack

Mic 1972 wrote: »

young people maybe, but anyone who has concerns about their health and their families would steer clear

Young people will be too immature to realize the possible implications. Pubs would be packed and it would be chaos. Some older people would take their chances too. Their probably should be survey's on this

gabeeg

declanflynn wrote: »

No, they tried to save everyone that's why they took over the private hospitals, ordered plane loads of ppe, introduced lockdown and a host of other measures, can you tell me which western countries have zero deaths?

I'm not criticising the gov here. I'm criticising your point.

You said they allowed the virus to spread to an extent before dealing with it. I'm telling you that this would mean they allowed for people to die unnecessarily.

So if you're here to praise their actions perhaps you should revise how you're doing it, because currently you're praising them whilst also saying they allowed people to die.

coastwatch

Monitor1985 wrote: »

This might have been asked before, but this forum is moving so quick it's hard to keep up.

Has our backlog now been cleared?

And are all the tests now coming back from Germany as up to date with the confirmed cases in Irish labs?

So basically, at which point can we start taking Irish confirmed and German confirmed cases as one figure?

Or are the cases still coming back from the German labs still part of the backlog?

According the HSE briefing today, the backlog has been cleared, so the testing being done by the German lab will now be for current testing.

Paddygreen

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Getting the clap, or giving it?

My landing window is actually a good vantage point of observation over my estate. When the clapping started everyone was out except the essential workers and the healthcare heros who were at the front line of the War on Coronavirus. I have noticed the clapping dropping off, I am keeping an eye out for unauthorised activity and I am keeping ba special eye on those who won't clap. I clap and woohoo.

tabby aspreme

Monitor1985 wrote: »

This might have been asked before, but this forum is moving so quick it's hard to keep up.

Has our backlog now been cleared?

And are all the tests now coming back from Germany as up to date with the confirmed cases in Irish labs?

So basically, at which point can we start taking Irish confirmed and German confirmed cases as one figure?

Or are the cases still coming back from the German labs still part of the backlog?

Take a look at Paul Reid article on RTE website from yesterday, though some of the figures are hard to follow

blade1

growleaves wrote: »

wakka12,

Flu deaths are also packed into short stints.

We went over this last week remember? The important thing is the length of the epidemic. If we are peaking or have peaked then there aren't going to be tens of millions of corpses with or without economic embargoes.

When I see people trying to explain stuff on boards to other posters it always reminds of this

zinfandel

from a UK page, but most of the issues are the same...

It’s not confusing at all ��
As we enter the next 3 weeks of lockdown, here is a summary of the advice:
1. You MUST NOT leave the house for any reason, but if you have a reason, you can leave the house
2. Masks are useless at protecting you against the virus, but you may have to wear one because it can save lives, but they may not work, but they may be mandatory, but maybe not
3. Shops are closed, except those shops that are open
4. You must not go to work but you can get another job and go to work
5. You should not go to the Drs or to the hospital unless you have to go there, unless you are too poorly to go there
6. This virus can kill people, but don’t be scared of it. It can only kill those people who are vulnerable or those people who are not vulnerable people. It’s possible to contain and control it, sometimes, except that sometimes it actually leads to a global disaster
7. Gloves won't help, but they can still help so wear them sometimes or not
8. STAY HOME, but it's important to go out
9. There is no shortage of groceries in the supermarkets, but there are many things missing. Sometimes you won’t need loo rolls but you should buy some just in case you need some
10. The virus has no effect on children except those children it effects
11. Animals are not affected, but there is still a cat that tested positive in Belgium in February when no one had been tested, plus a few tigers here and there…
12. Stay 2 metres away from tigers (see point 11)
13. You will have many symptoms if you get the virus, but you can also get symptoms without getting the virus, get the virus without having any symptoms or be contagious without having symptoms, or be non contagious with symptoms...
14. To help protect yourself you should eat well and exercise, but eat whatever you have on hand as it's better not to go out shopping
15. It's important to get fresh air but don't go to parks but go for a walk. But don’t sit down, except if you are old, but not for too long or if you are pregnant or if you’re not old or pregnant but need to sit down. If you do sit down don’t eat your picnic
16. Don’t visit old people but you have to take care of the old people and bring them food and medication
17. If you are sick, you can go out when you are better but anyone else in your household can’t go out when you are better unless they need to go out
18. You can get restaurant food delivered to the house. These deliveries are safe. But groceries you bring back to your house have to be decontaminated outside for 3 hours including Pizza...
19. You can't see your older mother or grandmother, but they can take a taxi and meet an older taxi driver
20. You are safe if you maintain the safe social distance when out but you can’t go out with friends or strangers at the safe social distance
21. The virus remains active on different surfaces for two hours ... or four hours... six hours... I mean days, not hours... But it needs a damp environment. Or a cold environment that is warm and dry... in the air, as long as the air is not plastic
22. Schools are closed so you need to home educate your children, unless you can send them to school because you’re not at home. If you are at home you can home educate your children using various portals and virtual class rooms, unless you have poor internet, or more than one child and only one computer, or you are working from home. Baking cakes can be considered maths, science or art. If you are home educating you can include household chores to be education. If you are home educating you can start drinking at 10am
23. If you are not home educating children you can also start drinking at 10am
24. The number of corona related deaths will be announced daily but we don't know how many people are infected as they are only testing those who are almost dead to find out if that's what they will die of… the people who die of corona who aren’t counted won’t be counted
25. You should stay in lock down until the virus stops infecting people but it will only stop infecting people if we all get infected so it’s important we get infected and some don’t get infected
26. You can join your neighbours for a street party and turn your music up for an outside disco and your neighbours won’t call the police. People in another street are allowed to call the police about your music.
27. No business will go under due to Coronavirus except those businesses that will have already gone under.

Mic 1972

wadacrack wrote: »

Young people will be too immature to realize the possible implications. Pubs would be packed and it would be chaos. Some older people would take their chances too. Their probably should be survey's on this

Exactly
People need to be patient, we are half way through this, no need to rush up things now and **** up

declanflynn

gabeeg wrote: »

I'm not criticising the gov here. I'm criticising your point.

You said they allowed the virus to spread to an extent before dealing with it. I'm telling you that this would mean they allowed for people to die unnecessarily.

So if you're here to praise their actions perhaps you should revise how you're doing it, because currently you're praising them whilst also saying they allowed people to die.

My point is correct

To follow your your point to its logical conclusion, the government allow people to die everyday for all sorts of reasons besides the coronavirus, eg man dies in car accident - government allow dangerous cars on the roads

Drumpot

I would of thought a fairer way of judging Sweden’s approach not be to benchmark against Norway and Finland? Among other things borders, Cultural Similarities , regional proximity are more appropriate to compare.

It’s like the New Zealand and Ireland comparisons that aren’t really ideal.

Gynoid

Paddygreen wrote: »

My landing window is actually a good vantage point of observation over my estate. When the clapping started everyone was out except the essential workers and the healthcare heros who were at the front line of the War on Coronavirus. I have noticed the clapping dropping off, I am keeping an eye out for unauthorised activity and I am keeping ba special eye on those who won't clap. I clap and woohoo.

I think the woohooing is a step too far as your spittle is dangerous and unauthorised. Do you have a little fold out chair on the landing? Mind you don't fall off it and trip down the stairs. Be careful and stay vigilant.

gabeeg

declanflynn wrote: »

My point is correct

To follow your your point to its logical conclusion, the government allow people to die everyday for all sorts of reasons besides the coronavirus, eg man dies in car accident - government allow dangerous cars on the roads

There are some notable upsides to allowing cars on the roads. It's not all death and carnage.

The same cannot be said for a killer virus.

ZX7R

podgeandrodge wrote: »

So this project manager who deals with security is changing the way the public enjoy pubs. Is this because of corona virus?
It seems very optimistic to stop people getting drunk!

The projects manager is only trying to see if and how the vintners association recommendations can be implemented, intoxicated people don't practice social distancing.
People are going to have to change there expectations of what a return to normality will be.
One of the biggest challenges will be cultural changes definitely for the foreseeable future as far as pub settings go.

crossman47

gabeeg wrote: »

There are some notable upsides to allowing cars on the roads. It's not all death and carnage.

The same cannot be said for a killer virus.

But this killer virus was going to come here, no matter what. The strategy had to be to minimise the deaths - not to allow deaths. To do that the first priority had to be flattening the curve and preparing the hospitals. if that hadn't been done then all of us, including the nursing homes, would have been swamped.

gabeeg

crossman47 wrote: »

But this killer virus was going to come here, no matter what. The strategy had to be to minimise the deaths - not to allow deaths. To do that the first priority had to be flattening the curve and preparing the hospitals. if that hadn't been done then all of us, including the nursing homes, would have been swamped.

Yeah sure.

I'm in an argument here with a guy that's saying the government intentionally let it spread in the population before doing anything about it, and that they also did a good job.

I should probably know better than to get involved in these things, but here I am

declanflynn

gabeeg wrote: »

There are some notable upsides to allowing cars on the roads. It's not all death and carnage.

The same cannot be said for a killer virus.

If we kept the virus at zero cases in this country while every other country in the world had cases Ireland would be isolated for ever.

Danzy

gabeeg wrote: »

I'm not criticising the gov here. I'm criticising your point.

You said they allowed the virus to spread to an extent before dealing with it. I'm telling you that this would mean they allowed for people to die unnecessarily.

So if you're here to praise their actions perhaps you should revise how you're doing it, because currently you're praising them whilst also saying they allowed people to die.

They did do that and it was the correct course of action.

Their aim is to minimize deaths from it, balance that out with the costs and damages to economy and society.

It's not to prevent all deaths.

Lockdown was initiated when it hit a certain level of infection or hospitalization etc.

cloudatlas

UK exit strategy has been proposed but Japan has just gone one step forward and three steps back. I don't believe we will be out by June.

According to the Daily Fail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233761/Traffic-light-lockdown-schools-weeks.html

podgeandrodge

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Getting the clap, or giving it?

Paddygreen wrote: »

My landing window is actually a good vantage point of observation over my estate. When the clapping started everyone was out except the essential workers and the healthcare heros who were at the front line of the War on Coronavirus. I have noticed the clapping dropping off, I am keeping an eye out for unauthorised activity and I am keeping ba special eye on those who won't clap. I clap and woohoo.

I was referring to herself in the caravan. But you probably knew that!

wakka12

growleaves wrote: »

By the way if covid-19 has a mortality rate 20 times greater than the flu then, even discounting for greater infectiousness, it would kill 12.5 million people in a typical year.

So far the total deaths are at 161,000 after five months.

Another completely disingenuous comparison. The figure of 161,000 does not include at least tens of thousands of deaths in homes and nursing homes in Europe, and tens of thousands of deaths in Iran either for example.The current death toll in Europe may increase by as much 30-40%. And 95% of the current global deaths occurred within the last 4 weeks, not 5 months. It doesnt take into account that widespread contagion was stopped or prevented throughout much of the globe(China, South and North Korea, Vietnam,Nepal, for example), and in the places where it is occurring(Western Europe, Eastern USA, parts of the MIddle east and South America) there is an unprecedented lockdown in place which has largely suppressed its growth.

Drumpot

declanflynn wrote: »

My point is correct

To follow your your point to its logical conclusion, the government allow people to die everyday for all sorts of reasons besides the coronavirus, eg man dies in car accident - government allow dangerous cars on the roads

I suppose most government decisions generally reflects a society and what it values, but you can’t take away all risk.

Sweden’s strategy right now does look like it’s a “we are prepared to trade off our elder/vulnerable” simply because nobody really knows the best way of handling this. Simply put, Sweden doesn’t know how their strategy is going to play out, if it was an obviously successful way of approaching the virus there would be consensus. Not just that, most countries would jump at the chance to follow Sweden’s model but decided that a more cautious approach was preferable, pending more clarity.

Regardless Of outcome, Sweden has hedged the lives of those most affected or damaged by the virus on a gamble that nobody can say with certainty will work.

gabeeg

Danzy wrote: »

They did do that and it was the correct course of action.

Their aim is to minimize deaths from it, balance that out with the costs and damages to economy and society.

It's not to prevent all deaths.

Lockdown was initiated when it hit a certain level of infection or hospitalization etc.

Well in the highly unlikely event that you're correct, that's borderline criminal behaviour from the government and would lead to countless unnecessary deaths and injury.

declanflynn

Drumpot wrote: »

I suppose most government decisions generally reflects a society and what it values, but you can’t take away all risk.

Sweden’s strategy right now does look like it’s a “we are prepared to trade off our elder/vulnerable” simply because nobody really knows the best way of handling this. Simply put, Sweden doesn’t know how their strategy is going to play out, if it was an obviously successful way of approaching the virus there would be consensus. Not just that, most countries would jump at the chance to follow Sweden’s model but decided that a more cautious approach was preferable, pending more clarity.

Regardless Of outcome, Sweden has hedged the lives of those most affected or damaged by the virus on a gamble that nobody can say with certainty will work.

At the moment it looks like Sweden's approach is wrong, but time may prove it not to be any worse than our approach and the cost of their approach must be way lower to the state, but should financial cost be ignored for a while