Covid19 Part XV - 15,251 in ROI (610 deaths) 2,645 in NI (194 deaths) (19/04) Read OP

growleaves

US reopening: What states are relaxing social distancing restrictions and moving away from lockdowns?

Here is a running list of states making moves to roll back social distancing regulations:

Idaho and North Dakota
Trump said on April 18 that along with Ohio, Idaho and North Dakota had "advised nonessential businesses to prepare for a phased reopening starting May 1."

Montana
Trump said on April 18 that Montana will "begin lifting restrictions" on April 24.

New York
On April 18, New York joined the states of Connecticut and New Jersey in opening up their marinas, boatyards and boat launches for recreational use.

The state also has updated its guidance for golf courses, opening the door for public and private courses to open, so long as almost all direct employees are not on premises. Golfers will have to walk the course and carry their own bags without a motorized cart, according to Dani Lever, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo's communications director.

Ohio
On May 1, the state is going to start implementing a "gradual" plan to get the state back open, Gov. Mike DeWine said on April 16.

DeWine said the plan – still being finalized with business leaders and advisers – is to reopen gradually. It will start with businesses that are able to incorporate social distancing, cleaning protocols and other measures to reduce spread of the virus.

Texas
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott announced executive orders on April 17 that will ease some of the restrictions on retail stores and parks, but he said all schools, public and private, will remain closed for the rest of the school year.

Abbott said all stores in Texas will be able to operate retail-to-go beginning April 24, in which they can deliver items to customer’s cars, homes or other locations. State parks were to be reopened on April 20.

Vermont
On April 17, Gov. Phil Scott announced plans to reopen some businesses – under restrictions – on April 20. Farmers markets can reopen in limited capacities starting May 1.

ek motor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I had been reading a Lancet article about viral sepsis due to SARS-CoV2, which postulates it’s the cause of death in the majority of fatal cases. Sepsis involves blood clotting and consequent death of tissues.

Blood clotting leading to pulmonary embolism is being identified as a cause of death in SARS-CoV2 patients according to this article

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes#

ZX7R

deisedevil wrote: »

No they haven't. Another complete and utter lie. Not only that, but they are not even managing to test suspected cases in some nursing homes and the healthcare workers they were in contact with, but have instead advised that it will be some days before these people can be swabbed due to the delays and the backlog (the same backlog that they are telling the public through the media doesn't exist)

Tell that to my relative that works in the local nursing home,
They were all tested Friday.

Tony EH

Akrasia wrote: »

I think the bigger issue with this WHO tweet, is the fact that so many people are so focused on a single nugget of data and using that as a stick to beat the WHO with as if it’s some kind of hive mind

There are tens of thousands of people working at the WHO, maybe 3 or 4 of those were involved in sending that tweet and they probably thought it was the right thing to say at the time, the early stages of a crisis when information was far from established.

You also have to remember that the WHO deals with many alerts of potential pandemics, the majority of them fizzle out on their own or with some interventions.

The WHO twitter feed has 50 thousand tweets. Since this outbreak has taken off in January, the vast majority of those tweets provided useful accurate information. And they have corrected the ‘no evidence of h2h transmission’ statement countless times yet people will still vilify the WHO and everyone associated with them.

It’s an organization that has flaws but is generally extremely well intentioned and exists almost solely for the betterment of mankind. The WHO led the eradication of Smallpox, it’s currently driving the control of TB, cutting TB infections in half over the last 20 years, saving 50 million lives, and it’s at the forefront of public health and vaccination programs all around the world

The anti WHO codology stems from the anti vaccine movement and other loopers with more free time than brain cells to rub together. Before you get sucked in by it, think about it first

It's lamentable that there are so many (largely disingenuous) actors consistently trying to lay focus on this single tweet - which was Chinese information, not the WHO's - in an effort to damn an entire organisation. An organisation that wasn't even allowed into Wuhan until nearly a month after it was tweeted.

In any case, that tweet probably had little to no actual effect on the world's reaction to Covid-19.

deisedevil

ZX7R wrote: »

Tell that to my relative that works in the local nursing home,
They were all tested Friday.

So what. One nursing home. I know of many many nursing homes that have had no testing and even more so of one with suspected cases that are being told they will have to wait a few days for the suspected cases to be swabbed and no swabs for workers who were in contact, just stay at home. If the nursing homes are a priority then why the delay. My relative is on the phone with 1 hour and 53 mins there waiting to get through to find out if there is any update on when her residents will be tested. The last residents she had tested had results back after 13 days. Fantastic.

Martina1991

gabeeg wrote:

So then what are we going to call the backlog that theballz is in?

The lab test isn't the final stage in the process. All results have to be either texted or phoned to patients.

If it is reported that the backlog is cleared and people are waiting for results then the issue lies with the system of contacting patients, not the labs.

ZX7R

deisedevil wrote: »

So what. One nursing home. I know of many many nursing homes that have had no testing and even more so of one with suspected cases that are being told they will have to wait a few days for the suspected cases to be swabbed and no swabs for workers who were in contact, just stay at home. If the nursing homes are a priority then why the delay. My relative is on the phone with 1 hour and 53 mins there waiting to get through to find out if there is any update on when her residents will be tested. The last residents she had tested had results back after 13 days. Fantastic.

There is roughly 30,000 people living in nursing homes
Roughly 27000 staff.
Since Friday 4000 tests have been carried out.
They are not going to be able to test 57000 odd people over night.

Beasty

bodhrandude wrote: »

Any word on a rescheduled gig for Nick Mason's Saucerful of Secrets which is supposed to be happening at the Convention Centre in Dublin in ten days time.

A number of threads in Gigs & Events cover rescheduled gigs and there's one dedicated to that one

deisedevil

ZX7R wrote: »

There is roughly 30,000 people living in nursing homes
Roughly 27000 staff.
Since Friday 4000 tests have been carried out.
They are not going to be able to test 57000 odd people over night.

No one expects them to test them all overnight. Why did it take this long to start doing anything at all? Why are they taking so long to test suspected cases? Why are they not testing healthcare workers in nursing homes who were in contact with suspected cases? It's not good enough.

Also, on that rate it will be another 2 weeks before they will have swabbed everyone going on those numbers and god only knows how long after that before they get results back. So going back to the point I've been making all along, the testing situation is a shambles and rather than own it there has been nothing but dishonesty.

bekker

ZX7R wrote: »

There is roughly 30,000 people living in nursing homes
Roughly 27000 staff.
Since Friday 4000 tests have been carried out.
They are not going to be able to test 57000 odd people over night.

That 4,000 tests was clarified in the Q&A, 4,000 SWABBED.

Drumpot

deisedevil wrote: »

No one expects them to test them all overnight. Why did it take this long to start doing anything at all? Why are they taking so long to test suspected cases? Why are they not testing healthcare workers in nursing homes who were in contact with suspected cases? It's not good enough.

I don’t completely disagree with your sentiments, there are a lot of things that have not been good enough and continue to not be good enough. But all things considered I feel we have done OK under the circumstances. Not excellent, not terrible but OK, much better then some countries and not as good as others.

But how can you temper this legitimate/reasonable view with realistic expectations and factoring in the global shortage of all the things we are short? PPE, knowledge on how to actually respond as a country/system, how long to hold on restrictions, where to place resources.

These and many other issues are all issues most countries have no planning of experience in dealing with. So while in normal circumstances your points are fair, when you take everything into account I feel it’s unrealistic to demand more competency after the fact. Countries are getting some things right and some things wrong, unfortunately a lot of people are suffering due to bad management. When you don’t have all the answers you are essentially experimenting with a population until a better way of managing this is available.

expectationlost

deisedevil wrote: »

No one expects them to test them all overnight. Why did it take this long to start doing anything at all? Why are they taking so long to test suspected cases? Why are they not testing healthcare workers in nursing homes who were in contact with suspected cases? It's not good enough.

Tony Holohan admitted that the testing criteria was too wide in early March ( at 20 minutes ) https://www.pscp.tv/rtenews/1vAxRBXVEoXxl this led to all the problems

ZX7R

deisedevil wrote: »

No one expects them to test them all overnight. Why did it take this long to start doing anything at all? Why are they taking so long to test suspected cases? Why are they not testing healthcare workers in nursing homes who were in contact with suspected cases? It's not good enough.

The problem at the start was who's remit they fell under, nobody seemed to want to take responsibility for them.
I'm not medically able to answer why it takes so long to test suspected cases,
But my relative told me that some of the people have to be brought to hospital to be tested as a test could not be carried out using normal procedures

gabeeg

expectationlost wrote: »

Tony Holohan admitted that the testing criteria was too wide in early March ( at 20 minutes ) https://www.pscp.tv/rtenews/1vAxRBXVEoXxl this led to all the problems

It wasn't too wide at all. They were turning away people with covid.

It was that our ability to test on a large scale collapsed because they ran out of reagent. That was the real failing.

fritzelly

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1251886978276171776

deisedevil

expectationlost wrote: »

Tony Holohan admitted that the testing criteria was too wide in early March ( at 20 minutes ) https://www.pscp.tv/rtenews/1vAxRBXVEoXxl this led to all the problems

Or is it that they just couldn't manage the amount of requests. It wasn't that the criteria was too wide at all and they just needed an excuse to reduce the amount of requests maybe? How many people have had it but were told no test would be done because they didn't meet the new criteria.

I think the real truth is that the labs weren't prepared and how could they be. The systems to support them weren't ready and that's also understandable. The reagents ran out and more could not be sourced quick enough, a worldwide problem which was not the fault of anyone here. The hope was that they were going to test far more and when they realised that wasn't possible they said the criteria was too wide. Ideally we would have been testing far more. I can't stand the dishonesty since the testing started. There's been loads of spin around it and it would have been far better to have been more open and hon est. People would have been more understanding than they think I would say.

Roger_007

I just tuned in to the Downing St presser.
I don’t know who the speaker is but having the virus surely can’t be as painful as listening to him. He is dreadful!

podgeandrodge

Paddygreen wrote: »

I have my mask on when I woohoo and my landing window is at least five meters away from the road. Other clappers are social distancing too...

I'd say when they see you woohooing they definitely social distance :pac:

deisedevil

Drumpot wrote: »

I don’t completely disagree with your sentiments, there are a lot of things that have not been good enough and continue to not be good enough. But all things considered I feel we have done OK under the circumstances. Not excellent, not terrible but OK, much better then some countries and not as good as others.

But how can you temper this legitimate/reasonable view with realistic expectations and factoring in the global shortage of all the things we are short? PPE, knowledge on how to actually respond as a country/system, how long to hold on restrictions, where to place resources.

These and many other issues are all issues most countries have no planning of experience in dealing with. So while in normal circumstances your points are fair, when you take everything into account I feel it’s unrealistic to demand more competency after the fact. Countries are getting some things right and some things wrong, unfortunately a lot of people are suffering due to bad management. When you don’t have all the answers you are essentially experimenting with a population until a better way of managing this is available.

The nursing home problems had occurred in other countries. We could have prepared for that in advance. We didn't. The ball was dropped there and quite a large one. That's the biggest problem I have. Nursing homes were screaming out for help and were being ignored.

wakka12

fritzelly wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1251886978276171776

Whats with all this 10k 15k tests day a talk for weeks now? We have not tested anywhere cose to those numbers in a single day , ever. Not thats not okay, Ireland is testing plenty, but why does HSE keep saying they will/can test such large numbers when they dont

Has Ireland ever even performed 5000 tests in one day before?

spookwoman

fritzelly wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1251886978276171776

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1251873966853160960?s=20

Drumpot

deisedevil wrote: »

Or is it that they just couldn't manage the amount of requests. It wasn't that the criteria was too wide at all and they just needed an excuse to reduce the amount of requests maybe? How many people have had it but were told no test would be done because they didn't meet the new criteria.

I think the real truth is that the labs weren't prepared and how could they be. The systems to support them weren't ready and that's also understandable. The reagents ran out and more could not be sourced quick enough, a worldwide problem which was not the fault of anyone here. The hope was that they were going to test far more and when they realised that wasn't possible they said the criteria was too wide. Ideally we would have been testing far more. I can't stand the dishonesty since the testing started. There's been loads of spin around it and it would have been far better to have been more open and hon est. People would have been more understanding than they think I would say.

A lot of people can’t handle the truth and prefer a beautiful lie so they can relax.

In Early February in these threads , people were accusing us of scaremongering just for discussing the potential for it coming to Ireland. I still can’t get over that there are still some people quoting Trump Horsesh*t or flu as some sort of examples of how this has been all overblown. We just don’t know at this time.

I’d love to hear the thinking from HSE, but I do wonder what would of been reaction had they held their hands up completely. How would that of gone down? Would that of helped people’s anxiety’s? Would it of calmed down more people ? Was it potentially more damaging ? Do the public need to know every bad decision that goes wrong? We need to be able to trust the authority’s but also trust that sometimes the blunt truth is not in the best interests of public safety.

I can’t answer those questions or if the right calls have been made and while people are correct to question and be angry, if they pause to reflect it may not be as clear cut as you think.

stephenjmcd

spookwoman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1251873966853160960?s=20

That tweet is not accurate now. Hes updated its 10,000 per day.

spookwoman

stephenjmcd wrote: »

That tweet is not accurate now. Hes updated its 10,000 per day.

Thanks doing catch up and saw it. You would think he would have deleted it

expectationlost

gabeeg wrote: »

It wasn't too wide at all. They were turning away people with covid.

they turning people away in late March when the restricted the criteria I'm talking about before that. Having test testing criteria too wide led to all the reagent that we did have being used up.

stephenjmcd

spookwoman wrote: »

Thanks doing catch up and saw it. You would think he would have deleted it

You'd have thought so, surprised nobody asked for clarification when it was said this morning to start with

spookwoman

No operations report for today from hse site

Drumpot

deisedevil wrote: »

The nursing home problems had occurred in other countries. We could have prepared for that in advance. We didn't. The ball was dropped there and quite a large one. That's the biggest problem I have. Nursing homes were screaming out for help and were being ignored.

I’d go further back to the obvious Cheltenham bullsh*t time bomb and not taking steps much sooner but mistakes will be made. We have to accept this is part of the process. Once they fix the mistakes we move onto the next mistake/issue because that’s what’s gonna keep happening until an obvious way of handling this (including vulnerable areas within the system that we probably haven’t thought of yet) is perfected.

I won’t excuse mistakes being made, I suppose I just remember Dr Aylward saying weeks ago that a lot of mistakes happen at the start of a pandemic. It might feel like it’s been ages but this is still just the start of the pandemic. You are right that the protection of nursing homes was bad, but it’s also fair to say that unfortunately mistakes are expected early on in these outbreaks.

expectationlost

deisedevil wrote: »

Or is it that they just couldn't manage the amount of requests. It wasn't that the criteria was too wide at all and they just needed an excuse to reduce the amount of requests maybe? How many people have had it but were told no test would be done because they didn't meet the new criteria.

I think the real truth is that the labs weren't prepared and how could they be. The systems to support them weren't ready and that's also understandable. The reagents ran out and more could not be sourced quick enough, a worldwide problem which was not the fault of anyone here. The hope was that they were going to test far more and when they realised that wasn't possible they said the criteria was too wide. Ideally we would have been testing far more. I can't stand the dishonesty since the testing started. There's been loads of spin around it and it would have been far better to have been more open and hon est. People would have been more understanding than they think I would say.

they set the criteria not the public. The criteria they used in early March was wider then the one the WHO recommended..

spookwoman

??? - Deleted looks like hse is at home in the bedroom
https://twitter.com/HSELive/status/1251893127046193152?s=20

JP Liz V1

cameramonkey wrote: »

Reinfection or relapse?

Sorry for my ignorance but is there a difference, basically it is getting the virus again

JP Liz V1

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Possibly related to blood clotting.

https://twitter.com/TODAYshow/status/1251178889713516545

There's an American theatre actor having to get his leg amputated, he has coronavirus, Nick Cordeno

Cork Boy 53

Roger_007 wrote: »

I just tuned in to the Downing St presser.
I don’t know who the speaker is but having the virus surely can’t be as painful as listening to him. He is dreadful!

Gavin Williamson the UK education secretary.

New Home

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Sorry for my ignorance but is there a difference, basically it is getting the virus again

Relapse is when the virus is still in your body but either "dormant" or under a detectable threshold. Reinfection is when your body is completely clear of the virus, but catches it a second time.

ElTel

gabeeg wrote: »

I'm not criticising the gov here. I'm criticising your point.

You said they allowed the virus to spread to an extent before dealing with it. I'm telling you that this would mean they allowed for people to die unnecessarily.

So if you're here to praise their actions perhaps you should revise how you're doing it, because currently you're praising them whilst also saying they allowed people to die.

That's not true if the government's plan is long term. They are assuming this is wave 1 of the pandemic and that it would be around for a considerable amount of time.

bekker

stephenjmcd wrote: »

That tweet is not accurate now. Hes updated its 10,000 per day.

It was the HSE, not Fergal Bowers, that gave the 1,000 figure, it was the HSE not Fergal Bowers that had to later correct the figure to 10,000.

Your post appears to indicate that the error originated with Fergal Bowers.

Cork Boy 53

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

There's an American theatre actor having to get his leg amputated, he has coronavirus, Nick Cordeno

He is Canadian actually.

Michael Dwyer

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Possibly related to blood clotting.

https://twitter.com/TODAYshow/status/1251178889713516545

Like something you'd be sent to St. Clabberts for.

Larbre34

Roger_007 wrote: »

I just tuned in to the Downing St presser.
I don’t know who the speaker is but having the virus surely can’t be as painful as listening to him. He is dreadful!

They are all dreadful and incompetent in the UK Govt.

13 times our population, approaching 30 times the death rate. Absolute sh1t show over there. I worry greatly for the social order of more deprived areas of the UK in the coming month.

Cork Boy 53

Larbre34 wrote: »

They are all dreadful and incompetent in the UK Govt.

13 times our population, approaching 30 times the death rate. Absolute sh1t show over there. I worry greatly for the social order of more deprived areas of the UK in the coming month.

As the UK authorities are only counting hospital deaths from the virus the true death toll is far higher than the officially confirmed numbers.

Larbre34

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As the UK authorities are only counting hospital deaths from the virus the true death toll is far higher than the officially confirmed numbers.

Quite so. A calamity in the making.

stephenjmcd

bekker wrote: »

It was the HSE, not Fergal Bowers, that gave the 1,000 figure, it was the HSE not Fergal Bowers that had to later correct the figure to 10,000.

Your post appears to indicate that the error originated with Fergal Bowers.

My bad if it came across like that, was just saying he had updated the tweet. I know it's a hse issue, said it in another post I dont know how nobody questioned the figure given this morning

JP Liz V1

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

He is Canadian actually.

Whoops my bad sorry

wakka12

Large numebrs of graves being dug outside Sao Paolo in anticipation of coronavirus peak
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/south-america/brazil-digging-large-scale-graves-ahead-of-coronavirus-peak-20200419-p54l70.html

Wombatman

You want to give the people managing this crisis the benefit of the doubt. You want to believe they are smart people who have the countries best interests at heart.

Then you hear they are considering opening schools for one day a week.

Beyond dumb IMHO. You may as well open them every day in that case for flip sake.

Duke of Url

wakka12 wrote: »

Large numebrs of graves being dug outside Sao Paolo in anticipation of coronavirus peak
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/south-america/brazil-digging-large-scale-graves-ahead-of-coronavirus-peak-20200419-p54l70.html

Same is being done on our island.

Shadylou

Duke of Url wrote: »

Same is being done on our island.

Where?

Danzy

gabeeg wrote: »

Well in the highly unlikely event that you're correct, that's borderline criminal behaviour from the government and would lead to countless unnecessary deaths and injury.

They are minimizing death and damage.

They aren't miracle workers.

They are following medical guidelines and expert opinion.

They won't care about how you view it, their job is to minimize damage and loss of life.

New Home

Shadylou wrote: »

Where?

There's a makeshift mortuary being set up near Heuston Station. Source: someone I know who can see it from his window.

MeTheMan

Shadylou wrote: »

Where?

Rumor I heard was Longford. I laughed it off tbh.