Sweden avoiding lockdown

greyday

It seems not only Charlie believes the Swedish approach at the outset was herd immunity.
Bruntland is a former head of the WHO.

DER SPIEGEL: How do you assess the path your Swedish neighbors have taken? Instead of a lockdown, there were only recommendations. The corona death rate is now several times higher than in the other Nordic countries.

Brundtland: In Sweden, the government experts set the course and the politicians follow. But the Swedish hope that there would be a rapid herd immunity has not been fulfilled. Now, they are beginning to regret that they have not taken harder measures.

Breezin

charlie14 wrote: »

You seem to believe that Swedish not using lockdown has been a great boost to their economy.

I believe no such thing. There is no point in engaging with a dishonest debater who simply makes things up.

charlie14

Breezin wrote: »

I believe no such thing. There is no point in engaging with a dishonest debater who simply makes things up.

So why post a comparison between Ireland and Sweden`s unemployment levels if you do not believe that not having lockdown would give Sweden an economic boost

biko

45924 official cases
4717 officially dead
10% of known cases have passed

Numbers from FHMs own tracking page
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

Sweden have increased testing and thus gone from the usual 12% dead to 10% of known cases

elefant

dloob wrote: »

I think other countries which now appear to have the virus under control will be wary of opening up to them.

The Netherlands have confirmed that many countries in Europe will be changed to Yellow travel alert areas on June 15, down from Orange alert. Almost every other European country will be also made Yellow once they themselves allow Dutch travellers arrive without quarantine (including Ireland).

The only countries that aren't even being considered for changing are the UK, Denmark and Sweden. And the UK and Sweden are the only countries European countries remaining where people will have to self-quarantine on their return to NL.

https://www.nederlandwereldwijd.nl/documenten/vragen-en-antwoorden/coronavirus-veelgestelde-vragen-reizen-naar-het-buitenland

bb1234567

elefant wrote: »

The Netherlands have confirmed that many countries in Europe will be changed to Yellow travel alert areas on June 15, down from Orange alert. Almost every other European country will be also made Yellow once they themselves allow Dutch travellers arrive without quarantine (including Ireland).

The only countries that aren't even being considered for changing are the UK, Denmark and Sweden. And the UK and Sweden are the only countries European countries remaining where people will have to self-quarantine on their return to NL.

https://www.nederlandwereldwijd.nl/documenten/vragen-en-antwoorden/coronavirus-veelgestelde-vragen-reizen-naar-het-buitenland

Why what's wrong with Denmark?

elefant

bb1234567 wrote: »

Why what's wrong with Denmark?

I'm not 100% sure about why Denmark is part of the third group, but I believe it's something to do with how strict Denmark are about receiving visitors from other countries.

4068ac1elhodqr

bb1234567 wrote: »

Why what's wrong with Denmark?

Could be their border with Sweden, whereas uk (britan) is an island.



After all, Denmark reinstated all border checks esp Malmo area, with additional cops for the Swedish border after hundreds of 'big bangs' and rampant lawlessness (mainly gang based +60% on previous year) in the utoipia that is/was Sweden.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/16/drug-gang-violence-in-sweden-linked-to-60-bomb-blasts-increase
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50339977

biko

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/sweden-won-t-abandon-covid-strategy-despite-admitting-to-errors

With many other European Union countries now rolling back their lockdowns after appearing to bring Covid-19 under control, there are signs that Sweden is increasingly being left behind.

The upshot is less freedom of movement for Swedes, as some EU countries, including Cyprus and the Czech Republic, restrict access to people coming from what are deemed high-risk Covid zones. The Czechs lump travelers from Sweden and the U.K. into a “red group,” meaning they pose the highest risk.

biko

Sweden don't want to do daily briefings any more.

Instead it'll be twice a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays.

No reason given.

is_that_so

biko wrote: »

Sweden don't want to do daily briefings any more.

Instead it'll be twice a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays.

No reason given.

Finally copying us!

Breezin

Here is an interesting and balanced assessment of Sweden's strategy, saying that its problem has not necessarily been absence of a hard lockdown - the jury is still out - but austerity and privatisation putting the elderly in mortal danger. On this, unfortunately, we have been fully in step with the Swedes.

Most commentary on the Covid-19 death toll in Sweden has been on the absence of lockdown, yet privatisation and precarity in eldercare should really be in the spotlight.

90 per cent of those who have so far died from Covid-19 in Sweden were over 70 years old—and most were at the mercy of the state that promised to protect them.

An even more decisive factor has been the precarious working conditions of care workers. The use of precarious contracts is systematic, says Kommunal. At the start of the pandemic in March, 40 per cent of homecare workers in Stockholm were employed on hourly contracts, from day to day and hour by hour. Clearly, many of these precarious workers simply could not afford to follow the most critical advice from the Swedish authorities: ‘stay home if you are sick’.

... Sweden has one of the highest reported death tolls per capita, with 395 fatalities per million inhabitants due to Covid-19 as of mid-May. According to statista data, this places Sweden in sixth place on the list of worst affected countries—just after Belgium, Spain, the UK, Italy and France.

The numbers are notoriously difficult to compare, not least since some countries—notably Sweden and Belgium—seem to have taken greater care to register those who have passed away in private homes or at eldercare facilities, while many countries report only those coronavirus-related deaths that occur in hospitals. When total mortality rates are compared, Sweden fares better, with a lower excess mortality than other countries.

Bridge93

78 more confirmed deaths

biko

46814 official cases
4795 officially dead
10% of known cases have passed

Numbers from FHMs own tracking page
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

Effects

Bailee Curved Lobotomy wrote: »

After all, Denmark reinstated all border checks esp Malmo area, with additional cops for the Swedish border after hundreds of 'big bangs' and rampant lawlessness (mainly gang based +60% on previous year) in the utoipia that is/was Sweden.

I've a friend in Malmo that always played down any stories of the violence there.
Then I saw a murder on the news, and recognised it was on his street

He's stuck religiously to the idea that Sweden are dealing with things the right way. But he's also been very cautious there himself.

While we heard of talks of table service only at the bars there, he'd show me video of the complete opposite. People crowding at bars, trying to get served.

And if he met with groups of friends, they would be slagging him when he wouldn't hug them, preferring to maintain a proper social distance.

StefanFal

Effects wrote: »

I've a friend in Malmo that always played down any stories of the violence there.
Then I saw a murder on the news, and recognised it was on his street

He's stuck religiously to the idea that Sweden are dealing with things the right way. But he's also been very cautious there himself.

While we heard of talks of table service only at the bars there, he'd show me video of the complete opposite. People crowding at bars, trying to get served.

And if he met with groups of friends, they would be slagging him when he wouldn't hug them, preferring to maintain a proper social distance.

I live in Sweden. Trust me there's a lot of violence and a lot of drugs since the mass immigration a few years ago.

Finally there closed my daughters school today. AN outbreak of corona cases. 2 days before school end. Complete madness.

joeysoap

The right way to do was like New Zealand

The wrong way was like Sweden

Most countries just did it the middle way

I picked the most extreme country to demonstrate what could be achieved. More realistically Finland. Norway and Denmark were closer and better examples. All 3 have borders with Sweden but have succeeded where Sweden failed.

charlie14

joeysoap wrote: »

The right way to do was like New Zealand

The wrong way was like Sweden

Most countries just did it the middle way

True, but most countries did not have the option to do it the New Zealand way. No slur intended on the nation, but basically they are in the middle of nowhere which means controlling their border is much easier than most countries. European in particular.

biko

charlie14 wrote: »

True, but most countries did not have the option to do it the New Zealand way. No slur intended on the nation, but basically they are in the middle of nowhere which means controlling their border is much easier than most countries. European in particular.

Tbh, Ireland is quite similar. No-one can just drive across the border. Only way in is flights or boat.

Well, maybe next time we'll get it right.

ThunbergsAreGo

biko wrote: »

Tbh, Ireland is quite similar. No-one can just drive across the border. Only way in is flights or boat.

Well, maybe next time we'll get it right.

Apart from the UK/NI

charlie14

biko wrote: »

Tbh, Ireland is quite similar. No-one can just drive across the border. Only way in is flights or boat.

Well, maybe next time we'll get it right.

Unfortunately they can just drive across the border. I would find it difficult to see spikes in new confirmed cases a few times in Cavan, Monaghan and Louth as being unrelated to them being border counties.


Hopefully if there is a next time we can get it right on an all island basis.

growleaves

joeysoap wrote: »

The right way to do was like New Zealand

The wrong way was like Sweden

Most countries just did it the middle way

Why not look at East Asian countries like Taiwan, Singapore, Japan etc who came out well? Italy borrowed their lockdown policy from China essentially. Wuhan was the first to lock down AFAIK.

4068ac1elhodqr

joeysoap wrote: »

The right way to do was like New Zealand

To be fair, it's pretty hard even taking an apple or couple of brazil nuts into Auckland, after the 28.5hr flight.


Hence 'tis ye choice location for the average billionaire such as Musk to have their 'shtf' bunker, if/when 99942 Apophis shows up.

MOH

joeysoap wrote: »

The right way to do was like New Zealand

The wrong way was like Sweden

Most countries just did it the middle way

How come everyone is obsessed with Sweden, when Belgium has similar population, 25% more cases, but over twice the deaths?

greyday

MOH wrote: »

How come everyone is obsessed with Sweden, when Belgium has similar population, 25% more cases, but over twice the deaths?

Belgium is a European hub with far more international travellers/workers than Sweden.

s1ippy

Also Belgium did try to introduce a lockdown but like what happened in Ireland, their nursing homes got overwhelmed.

StefanFal wrote: »

I live in Sweden. Trust me there's a lot of violence and a lot of drugs since the mass immigration a few years ago.

Finally there closed my daughters school today. AN outbreak of corona cases. 2 days before school end. Complete madness.

Was your daughter attending school? Is your family ok, will you be tested?

Effects wrote: »

I've a friend in Malmo that always played down any stories of the violence there.
Then I saw a murder on the news, and recognised it was on his street

He's stuck religiously to the idea that Sweden are dealing with things the right way. But he's also been very cautious there himself.

I have a relative living there and they're the same, I don't know if they genuinely believe the rhetoric they spout or if they fear rejection from the society if they criticise anything about it. It's like brainwashing to me, they're a completely different person to who they were ten years ago when they lived in Ireland. Fanatical.

While we heard of talks of table service only at the bars there, he'd show me video of the complete opposite. People crowding at bars, trying to get served.

And if he met with groups of friends, they would be slagging him when he wouldn't hug them, preferring to maintain a proper social distance.

That's beginning to happen here now as well. People in general aren't respectful of other people's risk thresholds. We had family over to our garden yesterday and they were insulted when we told their six year old to keep back from us a small bit. But they were also encroaching into our space and couldn't sit still. We're going to have to tell them we're not comfortable with them coming over anymore. I know they're going to take it badly but it's our right to decide what level of contract we're comfortable with.

charlie14

MOH wrote: »

How come everyone is obsessed with Sweden, when Belgium has similar population, 25% more cases, but over twice the deaths?

Belgium is generally regarded as the one country that over counted Covid-19 deaths.
They introduced their lockdown on the 18th March and their deaths peaked the week of April 15th. Around the same time as Sweden claimed the same for their peak.
Difference is that from that date deaths in Belgium steadily declined whereas Sweden`s really have not.
If nothing else, comparing the worldometer graphs for Covid-19 deaths in both countries shows the benefit of using lockdown.

growleaves

charlie14 wrote: »

Belgium is generally regarded as the one country that over counted Covid-19 deaths.
They introduced their lockdown on the 18th March and their deaths peaked the week of April 15th. Around the same time as Sweden claimed the same for their peak.
Difference is that from that date deaths in Belgium steadily declined whereas Sweden`s really have not.
If nothing else, comparing the worldometer graphs for Covid-19 deaths in both countries shows the benefit of using lockdown.

Lockdown was always an extreme policy, with adverse consequences, which was supposed to prevent 100,000s to millions of projected deaths.

The "its a bit better than not locking down" defense isn't much of a recommendation, which may be why the Irish government have already said we won't be locking down the next time there's a wave of this virus.

is_that_so

growleaves wrote: »

Lockdown was always an extreme policy, with adverse consequences, which was supposed to prevent 100,000s to millions of projected deaths.

The "its a bit better than not locking down" defense isn't much of a recommendation, which may be why the Irish government have already said we won't be locking down the next time there's a wave of this virus.

They won't need to anyway, it'll be selective as actions will occur at the point where it hits, if it hits at all.

Harry Palmr

Nearly 1500 cases yesterday, is that another example of old stats being made known?
Today it's back down to just 200 odd with 19 deaths declared.

The last week has been a bad one overall regardless