Sweden avoiding lockdown

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

If Sweden maintained cancer screening and care, they will have taken the correct course:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300037886/ministrys-handling-of-cancer-diagnosis-during-lockdown-a-disgrace-top-oncologist-says

Ireland will probably be just as bad.

Did Sweden maintain cancer screening and care ?

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

If Sweden maintained cancer screening and care, they will have taken the correct course:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300037886/ministrys-handling-of-cancer-diagnosis-during-lockdown-a-disgrace-top-oncologist-says

Ireland will probably be just as bad.

There is no actual evidence in your post, yet you're using it as 'proof' for an argument you're making.



Why are you being dishonest?

cnocbui

charlie14 wrote: »

Did Sweden maintain cancer screening and care ?

I believe it varied by region and health authority, but overall there was a 33% drop in referrals for tumor screenings, which appears to be far better than here.

I think long term it will be shown that the lock-down cost more lives than it saved and decades of life will have been lost for many in order to provide a few weeks to months more life expectancy of questionable quality for some.

Other countries will brutally own up to it but this country will sweep it under the carpet as per the norm for things embarrassing and/or unpleasant.

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

I believe it varied by region and health authority, but overall there was a 33% drop in referrals for tumor screenings, which appears to be far better than here.

I think long term it will be shown that the lock-down cost more lives than it saved and decades of life will have been lost for many in order to provide a few weeks to months more life expectancy of questionable quality for some.

Other countries will brutally own up to it but this country will sweep it under the carpet as per the norm for things embarrassing and/or unpleasant.

I cannot be certain, but from an article I read some time ago it stated that other than emergency and vital cancer surgery everything else pretty much shut down in Sweden. Pregnancy appointments were cancelled as well it said.
I doubt they were carrying out much screening for cancer patient with suppressed immunity.
No different to anywhere else for the same reason.

charlie14

greyday wrote: »

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/sweden-public-approval-of-lax-coronavirus-policies-is-waning-a-9fada573-26da-4bfc-89b9-50062197cf99

Tegnell still confident his strategy is working....although he does mention the Government are responsible for the decision to cull the elderly.

There is a government inquiry coming up, so it sounds like he is taking Willie John McBride`s advice on getting his retaliation in first.

kippy

cnocbui wrote: »

I believe it varied by region and health authority, but overall there was a 33% drop in referrals for tumor screenings, which appears to be far better than here.

I think long term it will be shown that the lock-down cost more lives than it saved and decades of life will have been lost for many in order to provide a few weeks to months more life expectancy of questionable quality for some.

Other countries will brutally own up to it but this country will sweep it under the carpet as per the norm for things embarrassing and/or unpleasant.

It will be almost impossible to accurately analyse that.
What if we had no lock down or restrictions? how many more people would have died or became seriouslly ill? Very hard to put a figure on that. Overrunning hostpitals means many many more people would have died that should have lived.

That said, its about time the cancer screening began to ramp up again. Should have happened in the past 4 weeks.

Bit cynical

kippy wrote: »

It will be almost impossible to accurately analyse that.
What if we had no lock down or restrictions? how many more people would have died or became seriouslly ill? Very hard to put a figure on that. Overrunning hostpitals means many many more people would have died that should have lived.

That said, its about time the cancer screening began to ramp up again. Should have happened in the past 4 weeks.

I think it will be possible to analyse it once accurate models of the disease are available. That will enable us to at least have some idea of how many lives were saved due to the different lockdown strategies.

Glenbhoy

charlie14 wrote: »

My 10% figure was from a Trinity College Dublin 2017 study on longitudinal aging in Ireland.
Whether 10% or 17% both are a long way from the 60% claimed by the poster I was replying too.

The poster was referring to Irish COVID-19 deaths, you were referring to Irish deaths.

mcsean2163

charlie14 wrote: »

The Irish Longitudinal Study on Ageing carried out by Trinity College October 2017 found that just 10% of Irish deaths were in nursing homes.
The last life expectancy figures published by the Central Statistics Office were for 2010-2012.
They show male life expectancy at 78.4 years and female 82.8 years.

Apologies for the lack of clarity. I thought it was implied but maybe not, I should have said it move clearly; 60% of **covid19** deaths were in nursing homes.

charlie14

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Apologies for the lack of clarity. I thought it was implied but maybe not, I should have said it move clearly; 60% of **covid19** deaths were in nursing homes.

Fair enough. Both Ireland and Sweden were initially very poor in dealing with nursing home infection, but in Sweden`s case nursing home deaths have had little to do with their number of deaths for some time now.
When their deaths were 400+ weekly Tegnell attributed only 30 to nursing homes.

daithi7

Professor Luke O'Neill on the Pat Kenny show on newstalk just now, analysing the Swedish Covid strategy & results. He confirms that they got it badly wrong, with comparisons versus their nordic neighbours, and lists the reasons for this. Very compelling verdict on the 'no/low lockdown' approach.

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/science-with-luke-o-39-neill/science-news-prof-luke-oneil-3

biko

greyday wrote: »

Tegnell still confident his strategy is working....although he does mention the Government are responsible for the decision to cull the elderly.

charlie14 wrote: »

There is a government inquiry coming up, so it sounds like he is taking Willie John McBride`s advice on getting his retaliation in first.

Tegnell is right. He is just an advisor.
The elected government bears the responsibility.

charlie14

biko wrote: »

Tegnell is right. He is just an advisor.
The elected government bears the responsibility.

Agreed. The buck stops with the Swedish government.


Governments will always look for a scapegoat if things go wrong, so I am not blaming Tegnell for saying what he did.
He does have them in a bit of a cleft stick situation though.
By following his advise it now looks, especially with all the new cases, that a change of strategy would be too late to make any real difference.

biko

https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/overlakare-logn-att-patienter-inte-prioriterats-bort/
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/coronaviruset/overlakaren-logn-att-vi-inte-nekat-patienter/

Michael Broomé, chief physician at the Ecmo intensive care unit at Karolinska, is critical of senior executives
claiming that tougher priorities have not been needed during the pandemic. "It's a lie," he says.

We have repeatedly been forced to say no to patients we would normally have accepted, says Michael Broomé

hmmm

biko wrote: »

https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/overlakare-logn-att-patienter-inte-prioriterats-bort/
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/coronaviruset/overlakaren-logn-att-vi-inte-nekat-patienter/

If this is true it puts an entirely different perspective on the Swedish approach.

I was having a read about the history of Swedish social policies. I wonder if under the Nordic exceptionalism there is something a bit darker in Swedish society.

charlie14

daithi7 wrote: »

Professor Luke O'Neill on the Pat Kenny show on newstalk just now, analysing the Swedish Covid strategy & results. He confirms that they got it badly wrong, with comparisons versus their nordic neighbours, and lists the reasons for this. Very compelling verdict on the 'no/low lockdown' approach.

https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/science-with-luke-o-39-neill/science-news-prof-luke-oneil-3

A pretty brutal but accurate analysis on the Swedish strategy imo.

biko

58932 official cases
5122 officially dead
9% of known cases have passed

Numbers from FHMs own tracking page
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa


Sweden has gone from long-time 12% to 9% deaths of known cases over the last week or so.

Their death numbers is just about the entire town of Kinsale, Cork

biko

A comparison with Ireland

Sweden at 496.21 deaths per million
Ireland at 353.35 death per million

Could we say Sweden's approach have cost them 140 extra deaths per million?
In all approx 1400 people so far?

greyday

Irelands numbers are inflated, Swedens could very well be under reported.

cnocbui

biko wrote: »

A comparison with Ireland

Sweden at 496.21 deaths per million
Ireland at 353.35 death per million

Could we say Sweden's approach have cost them 140 extra deaths per million?
In all approx 1400 people so far?

You could, but don't forget to mention in Andorra, France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, USA and the UK, with honorable mentions to all the liars who have likely under reported hugely.

charlie14

Sweden`s Public Health Agency issued the results of their latest antibody test results during a press briefing last Thursday 18th June.
End of May it stood at 6.1% nationally.

mcsean2163

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Nothing since June 18th.

Has Sweden stopped reporting COVID19 deaths?

dogbert27

mcsean2163 wrote: »

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Nothing since June 18th.

Has Sweden stopped reporting COVID19 deaths?

Midsummer celebrations. Probably had the weekend off

Ce he sin

mcsean2163 wrote: »

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Nothing since June 18th.

Has Sweden stopped reporting COVID19 deaths?

The Midsummer public holiday is huge in Sweden and most things stop.

Kermit.de.frog

Sweden reported 69 new deaths today and 2,889 new cases but apparently the deaths are partial from the weekend with more to be announced from the holiday tomorrow.

The cases presumably cover the long weekend

https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2020-06-22-69-corona-deaths-recorded-during-the-midsummer-weekend.B1zjG_m068.html

charlie14

The Local Se are reporting 5122 deaths. Up from 5053 since Friday, so 69 new deaths but with Sweden`s weekend reporting, that figure will most likely be added to during the week
Total cases are now 58,932. Up from 53,223 on the 16th.

fisgon

Not quite about Sweden, but this is about lockdowns in general.....

Texas showing very large spike in infections. Yesterday they had 5112 extra infections, more than every country on earth but 5. They had a kind of a lockdown, and a few weeks ago they started aggressively opening up. And then comes the spike.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/22/texas-open-for-business-despite-covid-19-surge

cnocbui

Germany goes into lockdown again in sympathy with Sweden's strategy. The USA tries to out do Germany's support for Sweden by going into meltdown mode with a 25% surge in cases.

biko

Sweden called a pariah state by NYT

Fearing the country’s lax approach to combating the coronavirus, Sweden’s Scandinavian neighbors have all closed their borders to Swedes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/22/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-pariah-scandinavia.html

Mic 1972

cnocbui wrote: »

Germany goes into lockdown again in sympathy with Sweden's strategy. The USA tries to out do Germany's support for Sweden by going into meltdown mode with a 25% surge in cases.

Thanks to BLM, good job