Sweden avoiding lockdown

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

Ireland has had one death per 14.6 cases, Sweden has had one per 12.8 cases.

Australia has had one death per 74.6 cases. Do you suppose there is a forum in Australia where there are posters in histrionics about how appalling Ireland's response has been and how shoddy the standard of their health care must be there to be 5.1 times worse than Australia? Sweden is only 10% worse than Ireland, not 510 %.

Sweden has had 45% more deaths per head of population than Ireland and that percentage still increasing.

Breezin

Z-scores are used to standardize series and enable comparison mortality pattern between different populations or between different time periods.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#z-scores-by-country

cnocbui

charlie14 wrote: »

Sweden has had 45% more deaths per head of population than Ireland and that percentage still increasing.

Ireland has roughly 8500% more deaths per head of population than Australia. You sure you want to do this?

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

Well in the US they reckon that there are at least 10 more cases for each positive test. That's probably as good an assumption to go with as any.

It's not moving the goal posts, it's using an alternative perspective. I'd be more than happy to play the part of a completely deranged Ausie, ranting about how useless and incompetent Ireland's response has been, using any metric you want, such as the common deaths per million of pop.

I think the virus can out last our best efforts to extinguish it and that catastrophic economic collapse and mass suffering and even more deaths awaits most countries that pursue that goal. 5 years from now, I think almost all countries will look back and realise they became Sweden.

Deaths per million of population show Swedish deaths from Covid-19 are 45% greater than those of Ireland, and we have nothing in common on a like for like basis.

JimmyVik

cnocbui wrote: »

Well in the US they reckon that there are at least 10 more cases for each positive test. That's probably as good an assumption to go with as any.

It's not moving the goal posts, it's using an alternative perspective. I'd be more than happy to play the part of a completely deranged Ausie, ranting about how useless and incompetent Ireland's response has been, using any metric you want, such as the common deaths per million of pop.

I think the virus can out last our best efforts to extinguish it and that catastrophic economic collapse and mass suffering and even more deaths awaits most countries that pursue that goal. 5 years from now, I think almost all countries will look back and realise they became Sweden.

No its not. Its wild and should not be used in any stats,

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

Ireland has roughly 8500% more deaths per head of population than Australia. You sure you want to do this?

Why are you running around the world comparing countries that have nothing socially, geographically or culturally in common with Sweden ?
Why not post comparisons to those that have ?

Their Nordic neighbours for example.

hi5

Swedens economy is set to take a plunge because the rest of the world has stopped buying Volvos, Scannias and Ikea furniture due to their own lockdowns.
Not Swedens fault.

charlie14

hi5 wrote: »

Swedens economy is set to take a plunge because the rest of the world has stopped buying Volvos, Scannias and Ikea furniture due to their own lockdowns.
Not Swedens fault.

Are you saying the rest of the world is not buying trucks cars and furniture because of their own lockdowns ?
If you are then would that not, in Europe alone, have quite a few countries in the same position as Sweden ?

Truth is Sweden`s economy will take a hit same as everyone else because they do not live in an economic bubble, but a global economy.
The one area I can see them taking a disproportionate hit in is tourism.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Germany has 3 times the death rate per million that Poland has.
The Netherlands has 3 times that of Germany.
Belgium has 7 times that of Germany.
Sweden has 5 times that of Denmark.

Gee, I guess all those neighbouring states have a lot of questions to answer because none of them are close to being the same.

charlie14 wrote: »

Why are you running around the world comparing countries that have nothing socially, geographically or culturally in common with Sweden ?
Why not post comparisons to those that have ?

Their Nordic neighbours for example.

I did that. Would you care to comment on how there is a significant disparity between Germany and it's immediate neighbours but, we we should only focus on Sweden and assert their failings?

This conversation should only be had, five years from now, because it's not over yet, for any country in Europe.

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

I did that. Would you care to comment on how there is a significant disparity between Germany and it's immediate neighbours but, we we should only focus on Sweden and assert their failings?

This conversation should only be had, five years from now, because it's not over yet, for any country in Europe.

If you did then why did you not post it, rather than do it for Ireland who have little or nothing in common with Sweden ?
I did it on the four Nordic countries and it was not difficult to pick the odd one out.

Of course it is not over yet, but there is nothing Sweden achieved from no lockdown that will be of benefit to them going forward.
All they have achieve, as some media outlets have said, is made themselves pariahs plus having multiples of deaths in comparison to their neighbours.

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

It is difficult to know lately just what the actual daily deaths from Covid-19 are in Sweden.

Last week there were days as far as I recall where there were large numbers on Wordometers but they do not seem to be there now. The overall number is the same, so it looks as if some have been added to days further back.

Ah Charles, first you doubt Swedish minister for finance predictions, now Swedish covid figures? Some things never change in this thread

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

I can see your point, but every time I see similar reminds me of the banking crisis.
During that period our GDP contracted by 25% and unemployment figures were off the scale. Saving the banks according to Eurostat cost the Irish taxpayer 41 Billion euro and that did not include the 15 Billion from the National Pension Fund.
I know many may not see it as I do, but for me the present situation compared to what it cost just to save banks puts it in perspective for me

Yes. You are spot on. You are one of a kind. :rolleyes:

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

Sweden has had 45% more deaths per head of population than Ireland and that percentage still increasing.

Charlie, for the last time

0.04% of Irish population died with covid

0.05% of Swedish population died with covid

Seriously :rolleyes:

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ah Charles, first you doubt Swedish minister for finance predictions, now Swedish covid figures? Some things never change in this thread

Sweden`s Covid-19 figures speak for themselves. No matter how some try dressing them up.

But knew there was something you had again avoided. Your post just reminded me.
The I.M.F. who know a fair bit about Irish economics from direct experience are forecast no difference in GDP between Ireland and Sweden this year and have us performing better than Sweden in 2021.
Surprised you missed that. RTE even covered it.

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

Sweden`s Covid-19 figures speak for themselves. No matter how some try dressing them up.

But knew there was something you had again avoided. Your post just reminded me.
The I.M.F. who know a fair bit about Irish economics from direct experience are forecast no difference in GDP between Ireland and Sweden this year and have us performing better than Sweden in 2021.
Surprised you missed that. RTE even covered it.

Charles our June unemployment is 22.5%.

28% 26% 22.5%.

You really gonna keep banging the "Sweden economy doing just as bad as Ireland" drum?

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Charles our June unemployment is 22.5%.

28% 26% 22.5%.

You really gonna keep banging the "Sweden economy doing just as bad as Ireland" drum?

Knew there was something else you had avoided on the I.M.F.
They are calling Ireland unemployment figures to average out at 12.1% this year, dropping to 7.9% early next year. Covered by RTE as well.


On Sweden`s unemployment figures, are those in Sweden not employed because of the pandemic included in their unemployment figures ?
There was a post on here who reckons they are not. Reckoned they are classified as being on furlough and as such not included in unemployment figures.

biko

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Charlie, for the last time

0.04% of Irish population died with covid

0.05% of Swedish population died with covid

Seriously :rolleyes:

That's a nice way of attempting to say 1700 have died so far of 5 million,
and 5300 have died of 10 million.

Is that you Ann Linde?

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Charlie, for the last time

0.04% of Irish population died with covid

0.05% of Swedish population died with covid

Seriously :rolleyes:

I did mention that no matter how you dress them up they still speak for themselves. Not just that they have 45% more deaths to date, but when compared to their like for like Nordic neighbours who used lockdown, their Covid-19 deaths are 700% greater.

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

Knew there was something else you had avoided on the I.M.F.
They are calling Ireland unemployment figures to average out at 12.1% this year, dropping to 7.9% early next year. Covered by RTE as well.


On Sweden`s unemployment figures, are those in Sweden not employed because of the pandemic included in their unemployment figures ?
There was a post on here who reckons they are not. Reckoned they are classified as being on furlough and as such not included in unemployment figures.

So we are to listen to IMF rather than ministers for finance in each country? Charlie you really are losing it.

Also stop tuning in to RTE, they dont even announce age of people dying with covid anymore...

Ginger n Lemon

biko wrote: »

That's a nice way of attempting to say 1700 have died so far of 5 million,
and 5300 have died of 10 million.

Is that you Ann Linde?

And 50,000 died in Brazil. 0.02%

Its not a nice way of saying anything, its called reality.

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

So we are to listen to IMF rather than ministers for finance in each country? Charlie you really are losing it.

Also stop tuning in to RTE, they dont even announce age of people dying with covid anymore...

So the I.M.F`s economic and unemployment forecast, RTE news, Sweden`s Public Health Agency figures of Covid-19 deaths, any comparison to Sweden and it`s Nordic neighbours, Sweden having the 5th highest death toll in Europe, Sweden`s former state epidemiologist who said "herd immunity was a dream with no basis in reality, and any mention of Sweden`s antibody tests results should all be ignored because they contradict anything that doesn`t fit your narrative.


Did I miss anything ?

charlie14

biko wrote: »

That's a nice way of attempting to say 1700 have died so far of 5 million,
and 5300 have died of 10 million.

Is that you Ann Linde?

Even Linde eventually admitted that lockdown would have saved lives and that herd immunity was nothing but a dream with no basis in reality.
Something Ginger and a few others are still not prepared to do.

Danno

Morrisp wrote: »

That means 900 more people died .you put price on lives these people ?

Sweden has a FAR higher proportion of elderly than Ireland does. Perfectly plausible for them to have a higher number of this scale.

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

So the I.M.F`s economic and unemployment forecast, RTE news, Sweden`s Public Health Agency figures of Covid-19 deaths, any comparison to Sweden and it`s Nordic neighbours, Sweden having the 5th highest death toll in Europe, Sweden`s former state epidemiologist who said "herd immunity was a dream with no basis in reality, and any mention of Sweden`s antibody tests results should all be ignored because they contradict anything that doesn`t fit your narrative.


Did I miss anything ?

When you said RTE news you lost all credability.

Sad case.

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

So the I.M.F`s economic and unemployment forecast, RTE news, Sweden`s Public Health Agency figures of Covid-19 deaths, any comparison to Sweden and it`s Nordic neighbours, Sweden having the 5th highest death toll in Europe, Sweden`s former state epidemiologist who said "herd immunity was a dream with no basis in reality, and any mention of Sweden`s antibody tests results should all be ignored because they contradict anything that doesn`t fit your narrative.


Did I miss anything ?

I gotta repost this again. Damn you really did say RTE news :D:D oh Charles... going from Statista gdp predictions to RTE news. I m almost lost for words.

charlie14

Danno wrote: »

Sweden has a FAR higher proportion of elderly than Ireland does. Perfectly plausible for them to have a higher number of this scale.

That may have been applicable when like ourselves they made a complete mess of care homes, but when Sweden were still reporting deaths in the 500 -600 range weekly Anders Tegnell said care homes were only accounting for around 30 of that number.
At that stage I cannot see any other explanation for many of those deaths other community transmission due to the virus being allowed to run free.

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

When you said RTE news you lost all credability.

Sad case.

I said RTE reported the I.M.F`s projections on Ireland`s GDP and unemployment for this year and next. Not that they made them up.
Do try and keep up.
It is getting tiresome having to keep reminding you to stop posting the first rubbish that enters your head rather than reading and at least attempting to comprehend posts first before doing so.

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I gotta repost this again. Damn you really did say RTE news :D:D oh Charles... going from Statista gdp predictions to RTE news. I m almost lost for words.

Damn. Apologies.

I knew there was another internationally highly respected source of data and financial projections that you didn`t want mentioned because their data does not suit your narrative.


Anybody else I can add to that lengthy list ?

biko

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Its not a nice way of saying anything, its called reality.

Your method is a bit disassociated and sterile.

How about we say a town of Abbeyleix is dead in Ireland.
A town of Kinsale's size dead in Sweden.

If we say that a nursing home typically houses 30 old people,
then Ireland has cleared out 57 homes
and Sweden has cleared out 177 homes

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

Damn. Apologies.

I knew there was another internationally highly respected source of data and financial projections that you didn`t want mentioned because their data does not suit your narrative.


Anybody else I can add to that lengthy list ?

Paschal said, in April, that he predicts GDP to fall by 10.5% and unemployment to peak at 22%.

In reality - we had 28% unemployment in April, 26% in May and 22.5% in June. 3 months have ended with each more than his "peak" prediction.

If you gonna keep posting IMF prediction for Ireland and disregard Paschal altogether then good luck to you.

But you need some critical thinking, look at reports coming out from ESRI as at 18th of May

"Professor McQuinn said that output will likely contract by 12% in 2020 and the tax take will be down €59.3 billion to just €51 billion."

https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/2020-will-see-largest-annual-decline-in-irish-gdp--esri/

Can you really keep banging the IMF drum? did you do economics in university? I am fearful that you really do not understand the financial impact on Ireland as a result of our lockdown, and even more fearful that you are naive enough to believe that Sweden will be "just as worse off as here"... Sweden's unemployment in April was 7.9%. Ours was 28%. Thats nearly 4 times higher... do you think in May they magically jumped to our 26% level? do you think unemployment has nothing to do with GDP figures or strength of the economy?