Sweden avoiding lockdown

Un1corn

cgcsb wrote: »

Sweden is basically in lockdown all the time. There's no point looking at from an Irish perspective. We have a party culture here, socialising is everything. In Dublin on a Saturday night walk from Rathmines northwards for about 4km and you'll hardly get through the crowds. There is nothing like that in Sweden. After 8 everything is closed anyway and the few night clubs are hard to find, mostly empty and clandestine in set up. Young Swedish people are to be found at home with a bottle of anti depressants and ultra grey scale tv drama.

I get what you are saying actually. My wife is from Taiwan which has 300 cases and 25 million people. Exceptional really. Sure they reacted immediately and have experience in Taiwan. But when I think of the people there all they do is sit at home year-round anyway. The virus has no chance.

biko

cgcsb wrote: »

Sweden is basically in lockdown all the time

Have you even been to Sweden?
Where did you go?

alwald

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My personal opinion is that we can't get rid of the virus so we should forget about that, it's about management and delay.

Thankfully C-19 decisions aren't based on someone's hunch or personal opinion but rather scientific evidence and research.

Joe_ Public

Forget his name but there was a retired doctor/scientist on sky yesterday, based in Cumbria, and he was asked how relieved he was to be in such a nice and remote part of the country. He replied that actually Cumbria was one of the worst hit areas outside London. Why? Dont think anyone can be sure but one factor could be people outside big conurbations dont see the risks so much and are invested with a false sense of security. Not saying thats necessarily applicable to Sweden, just found it interesting.

dk1982

biko wrote: »

Have you even been to Sweden?
Where did you go?

He's bang on with that assesment. My brother and family (his wife swedish) live there 7 years and I've visited plenty and cant argue with that.

alwald

alwald wrote: »

Thankfully C-19 decisions aren't based on someone's hunch or personal opinion but rather scientific evidence and research.

Well to the best of my knowledge the only virus we've eliminated is smallpox and that took decades of global public health measures, is less contagious than this coronavirus, and not contagious when asymptomatic.

I don't believe any country on the planet so far has suppressed coronavirus and kept it suppressed.

It might be possible for an island nation to do this but it would involve eliminating ALL international travel (including for trade) so it seems very unlikely.

As it stands and based on what we know of the science to date the only thing that will get rid of it is herd immunity via vaccination, and we don't know when that might happen, or if it can happen.

biko

dk1982 wrote: »

He's bang on with that assesment. My brother and family (his wife swedish) live there 7 years and I've visited plenty and cant argue with that.

He may as well be describing Mullingar (no offence Mullingarians)

I'm thinking maybe you both have been to smaller towns where there isn't much action.
Go out in one of the cities and you'll find a thriving pub and club life.

Widdensushi

biko wrote: »

Have you even been to Sweden?
Where did you go?

as said on here before Sweden comes alive in the summer months, they are lucky enough to get proper seasons ,restaurant s etc the seating is nearly all outside, quick pleasure craft spin to Denmark to load up on cheap booze.

Spencer Brown

Widdensushi wrote: »

as said on here before Sweden comes alive in the summer months, they are lucky enough to get proper seasons ,restaurant s etc the seating is nearly all outside, quick pleasure craft spin to Denmark to load up on cheap booze.

Ferry to Helsingor

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

Well to the best of my knowledge the only virus we've eliminated is smallpox and that took decades of global public health measures, is less contagious than this coronavirus, and not contagious when asymptomatic.

I don't believe any country on the planet so far has suppressed coronavirus and kept it suppressed.

It might be possible for an island nation to do this but it would involve eliminating ALL international travel (including for trade) so it seems very unlikely.

I believe New Zealand has come pretty close. Of course 'keeping it suppressed' remains to be seen...

dk1982

biko wrote: »

He may as well be describing Mullingar (no offence Mullingarians)

I'm thinking maybe you both have been to smaller towns where there isn't much action.
Go out in one of the cities and you'll find a thriving pub and club life.

Been to Malmo, Gothenburg, Helsinborg and Trollhattan (where they live) and havent found the nightlife particularly thriving. Granted some of those places I would have been there midweek. Theyre moving back here in July. They love alot about Sweden but compared to Ireland they miss having friendly neighbours and the bit of craic etc. Anyway I've gone way off topic.

alwald

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well to the best of my knowledge the only virus we've eliminated is smallpox and that took decades of global public health measures, is less contagious than this coronavirus, and not contagious when asymptomatic.

One of the closest viruses to C-19 is the Spanish flu and yes it was eliminated and isolation/social distancing were measures amongst others that contribute to it.

alwald

alwald wrote: »

One of the closest viruses to C-19 is the Spanish flu and yes it was eliminated and isolation/social distancing were measures amongst others that contribute to it.

That's completely untrue.

"Spanish flu" disappeared due to a combination of herd immunity and probably mutation. It was absolutely NOT eliminated by human actions, certainly not by the limited social distancing that took place.

biko

dk1982 wrote: »

Been to Malmo, Gothenburg, Helsinborg and Trollhattan (where they live) and havent found the nightlife particularly thriving. Granted some of those places I would have been there midweek. Theyre moving back here in July. They love alot about Sweden but compared to Ireland they miss having friendly neighbours and the bit of craic etc. Anyway I've gone way off topic.

Yeah, Ireland (Galway, Cork, Dublin) really is different from Sweden when it comes to the nightlife.
The harsh Swedish winters do cause people to become more isolated and more prone to go to house parties rather than out.

But for instance in Gothenburgh and Malmo the winters aren't as bad and usually the people go out a lot.

Go out on a payday weekend, every place will be mobbed

alwald

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's completely untrue.

"Spanish flu" disappeared due to a combination of herd immunity and probably mutation. It was absolutely NOT eliminated by human actions, certainly not by the limited social distancing that took place.

Probably and perhaps aren't scientific evidence so can you link a reputable scientific research to support your untrue and incomplete post.

alwald

alwald wrote: »

One of the closest viruses to C-19 is the Spanish flu and yes it was eliminated and isolation/social distancing were measures amongst others that contribute to it.

Spanish Flu was not eliminated, it ran its course and is still with us. Spanish flu is H1N1 which also caused the swine flu pandemic. A combination of residual immunity and the tendency of viruses to select for lower severity over time lessened the impact. Still has the potential to flare up such as in 2009

alwald

alwald wrote: »

Probably and perhaps aren't scientific evidence so can you link a reputable scientific research to support your untrue and incomplete post.

So what you are saying is tat you demand scientific evidence for others to back up thier posts, but your assertions need no support what so ever. A simple google search will tell you spanish flu was not eliminated

alwald

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Spanish Flu was not eliminated, it ran its course and is still with us. Spanish flu is H1N1 which also caused the swine flu pandemic. A combination of residual immunity and the tendency of viruses to select for lower severity over time lessened the impact. Still has the potential to flare up such as in 2009

This post is full of inaccuracies that it hurts just reading it.
Spanish flu was eliminated and the 2009 pandemic was caused by a transmission from a pig to human and not H2H.
You make it look like the virus was amongst humans for almost a century and then flared up again.

Gary kk

alwald wrote: »

This post is full of inaccuracies that it hurts just reading it.
Spanish flu was eliminated and the 2009 pandemic was caused by a transmission from a pig to human and not H2H.
You make it look like the virus was amongst humans for almost a century and then flared up again.

Lol your right it was not h2h

alwald

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So what you are saying is tat you demand scientific evidence for others to back up thier posts, but your assertions need no support what so ever. A simple google search will tell you spanish flu was not eliminated

same goes to you for googling social distancing during the Spanish flu.

alwald

Gary kk wrote: »

Lol your right it was not h2h

Lol read well to understand that's the origin and not the aftermath

alwald

alwald wrote: »

This post is full of inaccuracies that it hurts just reading it.
Spanish flu was eliminated and the 2009 pandemic was caused by a transmission from a pig to human and not H2H.
You make it look like the virus was amongst humans for almost a century and then flared up again.

Spanish FLu was H1N1. Swine Flu was H1N1. There were numerous outbreaks of H1N1 influenza viruses throughout the 20th century. Swine Flu was a variant of the same virus that caused Spanish Flu. There was no elimination of Spanish Flu, it just retreated into the background as it ran out of people to infect through herd immunity. Suppression on the scale being implemented now was not done for Spanish Flu. Subsequent flare ups may or my not have been descendants of the same strain, but they all belong to the same virus family and have a common origin

Gary kk

alwald wrote: »

Lol read well to understand that's the origin and not the aftermath

Ah sorry you meant human to human thought you meant to say H1N1.

alwald

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Spanish FLu was H1N1. Swine Flu was H1N1. There were numerous outbreaks of H1N1 influenza viruses throughout the 20th century. Swine Flu was a variant of the same virus that caused Spanish Flu. There was no elimination of Spanish Flu, it just retreated into the background as it ran out of people to infect through herd immunity. Suppression on the scale being implemented now was not done for Spanish Flu. Subsequent flare ups may or my not have been descendants of the same strain, but they all belong to the same virus family and have a common origin

That's better but let's break it into pieces:
1- Spanish flu was eliminated but the real cause for its elimination is not certain and most studies suggest that a combination of factors led to its suppression
2- H1N1 didn't retreat into the background as you make it look like if it was hiding in humans.
3- There is no scientific evidence of herd immunity but rather theories if you understand the difference between both

I can go on but that's enough as you can Google the rest yourself.

alwald

alwald wrote: »

That's better but let's break it into pieces:
1- Spanish flu was eliminated but the real cause for its elimination is not certain and most studies suggest that a combination of factors led to its suppression
2- H1N1 didn't retreat into the background as you make it look like if it was hiding in humans.
3- There is no scientific evidence of herd immunity but rather theories if you understand the difference between both

I can go on but that's enough as you can Google the rest yourself.

This is what happens when people get their 'knowledge' from Twitter threads.

alwald

alwald wrote: »

This is what happens when your brain blocks and can't contribute anymore.

I'll say it one more time.

Spanish flu was NOT "eliminated"

That is an active sentence that assumes that someone or some organisation or humanity as a whole "eliminated" it. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.

We eliminated smallpox. We did not eliminate Spanish Flu.

Like a lot of viral diseases it goes through the population and then either comes up against herd immunity or mutates into something less dangerous.

Social distancing helped curb some of the potential impact of the disease, it did not eliminate the virus.

ush

biko wrote: »

He may as well be describing Mullingar (no offence Mullingarians)

I'm thinking maybe you both have been to smaller towns where there isn't much action.
Go out in one of the cities and you'll find a thriving pub and club life.

Swedes look out the peephole before leaving their apartment, so as to avoid meeting neighbours on the stairs.

maninasia

Un1corn wrote: »

I get what you are saying actually. My wife is from Taiwan which has 300 cases and 25 million people. Exceptional really. Sure they reacted immediately and have experience in Taiwan. But when I think of the people there all they do is sit at home year-round anyway. The virus has no chance.

Taiwan recorded NO cases today.
Total of six deaths and never any lockdown.

But Taiwan has very strict quarantine systems for incoming people, also contract tracing and very high mask use amongst the population .

Taiwan is the opposite of Sweden as Taiwan is hyper densely populated it should be full of the virus but it's not due to early and serious action and being well prepared.

Sweden has a lot more space and many people live on their own . Is Sweden doing well though ?


Taiwan has 22 million population and just six deaths. Taiwan can function mostly normally with no lockdown .

Sweden is obviously going for a very high risk strategy involving thousands of deaths.

People in Taiwan don't sit at home lol, people are active there in general, huge busy cities, mountains for hiking, night markets, shops , cycling and running are very popular...Taiwan is only slightly less busy than normal now....It's still a busy place just no foreign tourists , no big festivals or meetings or sports events etc.

alwald

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll say it one more time.

Spanish flu was NOT "eliminated"

That is an active sentence that assumes that someone or some organisation or humanity as a whole "eliminated" it. THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.

We eliminated smallpox. We did not eliminate Spanish Flu.

Like a lot of viral diseases it goes through the population and then either comes up against herd immunity or mutates into something less dangerous.

Social distancing helped curb some of the potential impact of the disease, it did not eliminate the virus.

This is better than your previous post.
So you agree that there are studies showing that social distancing was a contributor, just like isolation, to curb/eliminate the H2H transmission.

As per elimination yes the H2H transmission was eliminated but the H1N1 was found 90 years later in pigs and infected humans again.

niallo27

First mention in Google.

By the summer of 1919, the flu pandemic came to an end, as those that were infected either died or developed immunity.

https://www.history.com/.amp/topics/world-war-i/1918-flu-pandemic#section_13