Sweden avoiding lockdown

nw1dqsv7amx026

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ProfessorsBlogg/status/1299064185557602305?s=19

Was there something to note in this? A video of graphs set to dreary music and the sound of a movie reel?

I'm sure he could have something interesting to say but he needs to work on his presentations.

greyday

Just throwing it out there, some say herd immunity is the reason for the reduction in deaths even though the testing for antibodies seems to suggest this is not the case, is it possible the most vulnerable around the world have changed their behaviours to distance themselves from the rest of the population?

nw1dqsv7amx026

greyday wrote: »

Just throwing it out there, some say herd immunity is the reason for the reduction in deaths even though the testing for antibodies seems to suggest this is not the case, is it possible the most vulnerable around the world have changed their behaviours to distance themselves from the rest of the population?

Yes, I think that's a valid possibility. Certainly young people have gone back to their normal behaviour.
People who tested positive for the virus are also testing negative for antibodies.

Could also be that the majority of residents in nursing homes were infected and so the majority of people who were extremely vulnerable already died.
Those out in society who are less vulnerable but still vulnerable could be taking precautions.

I'd guess there are many factors at play and more than one possibility as to what is happening now and will happen.

It would be great if deaths and hospital admissions stayed łow at the same time as high positive tests.

greyday

Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: »

Yes, I think that's a valid possibility. Certainly young people have gone back to their normal behaviour.
People who tested positive for the virus are also testing negative for antibodies.

Could also be that the majority of residents in nursing homes were infected and so the majority of people who were extremely vulnerable already died.
Those out in society who are less vulnerable but still vulnerable could be taking precautions.

I'd guess there are many factors at play and more than one possibility as to what is happening now and will happen.

It would be great if deaths and hospital admissions stayed łow at the same time as high positive tests.

Agree with regards infections for those that don't get very sick, it would be good for the rest of the population in the long run even if we don't know what the long term consequences of contracting the virus will be.
Those that take precautions are less likely to get the virus than those who do not but it is the cautious ones that will most likely benefit in the long run if herd immunity through infections is achieved.

nw1dqsv7amx026

greyday wrote: »

Agree with regards infections for those that don't get very sick, it would be good for the rest of the population in the long run even if we don't know what the long term consequences of contracting the virus will be.
Those that take precautions are less likely to get the virus than those who do not but it is the cautious ones that will most likely benefit in the long run if herd immunity through infections is achieved.

Yes hopefully there are no long term consequences. Probably there will be a hopefully very small number who do have issues.
One of my colleagues had a very bad case in April but she fully recovered. Another has it at the moment, he has asthma and diabetes and has all the symptoms and says it's like being hit by a bus. He was talking precautions but it was the visit of a family friend to his house.

TonyMaloney

The pro Sweden argument falls on its face when long covid rears its ugly head.

And none of you ever, ever discuss it

Xtrail14

At least the moist pubs are open there.

tobefrank321

TonyMaloney wrote: »

The pro Sweden argument falls on its face when long covid rears its ugly head.

And none of you ever, ever discuss it

Define "Long Covid"? Bearing in mind the vast majority of people were infected and recovered in the last 3-4 months. And the vast majority appear to have no lasting side effects.

Just take some of the high profile people infected. A small minority unfortunately died, a small minority report lasting fatigue mostly, but the vast majority have reported no long term issues. Most are already back at work. Most of the soccer players are back playing at an elite level, eg Paulo Dybalo.

So you'll forgive us if we don't buy into the Long Covid scaremongering.

MadYaker

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Define "Long Covid"? Bearing in mind the vast majority of people were infected and recovered in the last 3-4 months. And the vast majority appear to have no lasting side effects.

Just take some of the high profile people infected. A small minority unfortunately died, a small minority report lasting fatigue mostly, but the vast majority have reported no long term issues. Most are already back at work. Most of the soccer players are back playing at an elite level, eg Paulo Dybalo.

So you'll forgive us if we don't buy into the Long Covid scaremongering.

It’s not scaremongering anymore unfortunately. But it does happen in a very small number of cases. I personally know one.

tobefrank321

MadYaker wrote: »

It’s not scaremongering anymore unfortunately. But it does happen in a very small number of cases. I personally know one.

I've no doubt it happens in a small number of cases. But long term to me means years. It looks like most people have overcome this with no lasting damage. That won't make the scaremongers happy I know as they want us all living permanently in fear.

TonyMaloney

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Define "Long Covid"? Bearing in mind the vast majority of people were infected and recovered in the last 3-4 months. And the vast majority appear to have no lasting side effects.

Just take some of the high profile people infected. A small minority unfortunately died, a small minority report lasting fatigue mostly, but the vast majority have reported no long term issues. Most are already back at work. Most of the soccer players are back playing at an elite level, eg Paulo Dybalo.

So you'll forgive us if we don't buy into the Long Covid scaremongering.

So you're advocating for a Swedish style "lockdown" (herd-immunity) while still needing me to define what long-covid is?

That's not a good look.
Would you not spend some time doing a little reading before making such assertions?

I'm not going to give you a synopsis on long-covid - there's a huge amount of articles and studies out there just waiting to be googled.

btw it took Dybala over six weeks to get over the virus and he's barely kicked a ball since
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/5516942/paulo-dybala-not-100-per-cent-coronavirus/

tobefrank321

TonyMaloney wrote: »

So you're advocating for a Swedish style "lockdown" (herd-immunity) while still needing me to define what long-covid is?

That's not a good look.
Would you not spend some time doing a little reading before making such assertions?

I'm not going to give you a synopsis on long-covid - there's a huge amount of articles and studies out there just waiting to be googled.

btw it took Dybala over six weeks to get over the virus and he's barely kicked a ball since
https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/5516942/paulo-dybala-not-100-per-cent-coronavirus/

That article is from June. He has since played several times for Juve, helping them win Serie A and also in the Champions League. You can't do that if you are seriously ill or with diminished lung capacity.

In fact if anything he's played some of his best football post covid.

https://www.90min.com/posts/paulo-dybala-s-return-from-the-transfer-list-should-be-rewarded-with-a-new-contract

There's a difference between Swedens approach and advocating herd immunity. The Swedes are so far off herd immunity even they don't mention it any more. They have numerous restrictions in place such as working from home. But they have advocated not shutting everything down and essentially living with the virus and appear to now have the balance right. They don't shut the country down because there's a spike somewhere, unlike us.

TonyMaloney

I'm well aware of Sweden's approach, thanks.

See, I read about it.

tobefrank321

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I'm well aware of Sweden's approach, thanks.

See, I read about it.

Tell us what restrictions they advise people to follow then.

99nsr125

TonyMaloney wrote: »

The pro Sweden argument falls on its face when long covid rears its ugly head.

And none of you ever, ever discuss it

What do you mean long covid ?

Bob Z

99nsr125 wrote: »

What do you mean long covid ?

the long term effects of cv19. we dont really what they are how long term they are because cv19 is so new to us. we dont know what effects will be in a year or two because theres no one that had it a year or two ago

321123

I'm Irish, I live in Stockholm with my Swedish partner. We moved here from Dublin during the Easter weekend (when Covid was at its peak in Sweden).

Since it's so much talk about Sweden right now I figured my take on it could be interesting.

I'm back in Dublin at the moment (after self-quarantining of course) and it is like night and day. The Swedes seem to mostly think that Covid is over (even my partner's grandparents live their life much like before). There are no masks, no restrictions besides on large gatherings (so no nightclubs, no concerts and no crowds at sports), the amount of people in restaurants and bars are similar to when I was here last September, schools and daycare are open with no restrictions, there are not domestic or international travel restrictions (or quarantine) and people are just not worried. Out of 10 articles in a random newspaper maybe 1 is related to Covid. You see signs in stores asking people to not stand to close to eachother in the queue (which people mostly are adhering to), there are announcements in the subway and people are asked to consider home working if possible and not deemed to affect your mental health, but that is about it.

On the other hand I just cannot ignore the death rate. If taken more proper action the numbers for sure would have been lower. Sweden has very good healthcare so they for sure should have been able to do better! Also considering that most people live their life like Covid now is done with I'm not sure and actually a bit worried over how a proper potential uptick in cases will affect the country. But so far it doesn't seem to happen, just keep my fingers crossed that it will stay like this...

Testing now is good. If you want a test you can just go and get one straight away with no waiting and without going through the equivalent of a GP or pay anything. But until June it was hard to get a test if you weren't sick. In my opinion the testing was handled very poorly until June really.

Worth mentioning is that the daily numbers for Sweden on Worldometer are incorrect. Sweden only reports figures Monday-Friday and Worldometer seems to just put 5 deaths per day for some reason. This week 11 deaths were reported so adjusting by size that is like if Ireland would report 5 deaths in a week. Case wise Sweden now has lower cases per 100 000 on a rolling two week average than Ireland:
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

I'm happy to answer questions on my take on Sweden's handling of Covid and life during Covid in Sweden versus Ireland.

Silentcorner

It sounds like a common sense approach from all quarters, government, media etc...thanks for the account.

I don't know what to make of it all, but I'd be very concerned of the long term effect of the media coverage of all this, the long term impacts on people who are afraid to meet family members, afraid to live modest existences...these are people who are long past nightclubs, football matches and concerts etc...it's no way to live your life to be afraid of visiting your grandkids or a coffee shop.

Beechwoodspark

Curious to know is the average Swedish person angry/sad/couldn’t care about their death rate compared to other nations?

GT89

The Irish need to take the same approach as Sweden and now. No more masks and reopen the pubs now it can be done tommorrow with the stroke of a pen.

road_high

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Curious to know is the average Swedish person angry/sad/couldn’t care about their death rate compared to other nations?

Seen as it’s on a par with much of Europe I doubt they think any differently than anywhere else.

GT89

Any advice on moving to Sweden as if there's a second lockdown in Ireland I think that's I will be doing

road_high

GT89 wrote: »

The Irish need to take the same approach as Sweden and now. No more masks and reopen the pubs now it can be done tommorrow with the stroke of a pen.

Won’t be possible I’m afraid. Far too much hysteria and paranoia going coupled with gutless politics.

321123

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Curious to know is the average Swedish person angry/sad/couldn’t care about their death rate compared to other nations?

Mostly sad that the spread got into the nursing homes. There is this take in Ireland that Swedish people don't care about the deaths but I find that not true mostly. However it is also this take that by keeping society open other stuff like cancer, suicides, personal bankruptcies, mental health issues etc can be kept down which sort of is a trade-off. Personally I don't know where I stand on this honestly. I get both perspectives. However I'm sure that Swedish kids will be way better off than Irish kids seeing how schools and everyday life is in Sweden for kids compared to Ireland. For a normal kid there is no difference what so ever in everyday life and school now compared to this time last year. Schools for 6-15 year olds stayed open all spring also.

However majority of people are happy with the strategy of avoiding lockdown though (think I red 2/3) but there are a lot of people who aren't too. My partner's younger sister is very critical for example and think Sweden should have locked down and needs to tighten restrictions now.

Beasty

Threads merged

mcsean2163

What does threads merged mean?

bb1234567

321123 wrote: »

Mostly sad that the spread got into the nursing homes. There is this take in Ireland that Swedish people don't care about the deaths but I find that not true mostly. However it is also this take that by keeping society open other stuff like cancer, suicides, personal bankruptcies, mental health issues etc can be kept down which sort of is a trade-off. Personally I don't know where I stand on this honestly. I get both perspectives. However I'm sure that Swedish kids will be way better off than Irish kids seeing how schools and everyday life is in Sweden for kids compared to Ireland. For a normal kid there is no difference what so ever in everyday life and school now compared to this time last year. Schools for 6-15 year olds stayed open all spring also.

However majority of people are happy with the strategy of avoiding lockdown though (think I red 2/3) but there are a lot of people who aren't too. My partner's younger sister is very critical for example and think Sweden should have locked down and needs to tighten restrictions now.

Thanks for posting. It's so so interesting to hear local perspective. This feels a bit like a reddit AME How do Swedes feel about the 'reputation' that the approach has garnered them globally, do they some of the population feel guilty with the accusations of recklessness or is there maybe a perception that they seem to have managed to weather the storm better than others and a sense of pride associated with that? I could understand both feelings tbh.

Bit cynical

321123 wrote: »

However majority of people are happy with the strategy of avoiding lockdown though (think I red 2/3) but there are a lot of people who aren't too. My partner's younger sister is very critical for example and think Sweden should have locked down and needs to tighten restrictions now.

It is very valuable to get the perspective of other countries, particularly Sweden which has taken a different approach to Ireland.

Another poster a few weeks ago said that it was more or less over as far as the average Swede is concerned and your post tends to back that up. Here in Ireland of course, it is very much still top of the agenda for most news programmes.

321123

bb1234567 wrote: »

Thanks for posting. It's so so interesting to hear local perspective. This feels a bit like a reddit AME How do Swedes feel about the 'reputation' that the approach has garnered them globally, do they some of the population feel guilty with the accusations of recklessness or is there maybe a perception that they seem to have managed to weather the storm better than others and a sense of pride associated with that? I could understand both feelings tbh.

It links to what the person themselves feel about the strategy. The people who are for it don't care what others think or wonders how we in Ireland for example can tolerate this semi-lockdown and panic state. I meet people in Stockholm that genuinely feel sorry for us Irish (in the same way that people in Ireland who are for the Irish strategy feel sorry for the Swedish). The people against the strategy are quick to share negative foreign news articles or Twitter posts from foreign experts who highlights the level of recklessness and/or the unethical aspect of letting the virus spread (or atleast not working enough towards suppressing it).

321123

Bit cynical wrote: »

It is very valuable to get the perspective of other countries, particularly Sweden which has taken a different approach to Ireland.

Another poster a few weeks ago said that it was more or less over as far as the average Swede is concerned and your post tends to back that up. Here in Ireland of course, it is very much still top of the agenda for most news programmes.

I agree with that. Most people think it's over or atleast that it has passed a stage now where it is acceptable to live like normal again (like attend house parties) without feeling guilty.

Walking around in central Stockholm feels like normal besides less tourists (still a fair few from mostly Germany). Only foreign looking people are wearing masks (Asians).