Sweden avoiding lockdown

average_runner

normanoffside wrote: »

Indeed, what’s happening is the problem, I.e. people like you panicking and asking for things to be locked up again.

Do you not think Sweden also had a lot of cases at first?
Do you not see that was part of the strategy?

We don’t ven have high case numbers compared to a lot of European countries yet our bars and Restaurants either never opened or have been closed again.

That’s so far from a Swedish strategy it’s not even funny.

How can you compare Ireland to sweden. Sweden has the highest number of people living on their own, double the amount than in Ireland.

Sweden are notorious for following government guidelines while we are notorious for breaking them. Not just covid but in general.

Covid only affected 2 cities in Sweden as it's very remote country, ireland is not

normanoffside

average_runner wrote: »

How can you compare Ireland to sweden. Sweden has the highest number of people living on their own, double the amount than in Ireland.

So why did they have more infections than Us? They kept pubs and restaurants opened, people could still go to work on Public transport etc...

average_runner wrote: »

Sweden are notorious for following government guidelines while we are notorious for breaking them. Not just covid but in general.

That's just rubbish of a making in your own head. Please show some evidence that this is true.

average_runner wrote: »

Covid only affected 2 cities in Sweden as it's very remote country, ireland is not

Again more rubbish, Sweden has ahigher urban population than Ireland (85% i Sweden to 63% In ireland

I've inserted my links there to prove the density thing- Sweden as a country may have an overall lower population density than Ireland but that because a huge amount of the country is uninhabitable- nobody lives there.

zanador

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I think it's sad how protesters are dismissed as nutjobs. Not everyone is suited to covid19 lockdown rules and not everyone has suffered the same.

For some it's been a great time to work from home and spend more time with the kids. For others it means job loss, business destruction, etc.

Sometimes all people need is to know they are being listened to and their concerns being considered.

Dismissing the concerns of anti maskers etc out of hand is mean. Like a psychologist, listening and consideration are probably more humane options

I think you're right and the nut-job protestors are preying on these people who are vulnerable at the moment.

There is a distinction between the two.

charlie14

mcsean2163 wrote: »

There is a difference in how under 60s are treated in Mexico in a normal year. Correlation doesn't imply causation etc.

There are differences in every country as to how certain sectors of their population are treated.
I may have missed it, but I am not aware of any other country where 29% of those who died were in the 35-55 age group ?

From what we have seen so far their is a correlation between this virus and deaths.
The vast majority of deaths are in the elderly age groups.
The 35-55 aged group make up a small percentage of Covid-19 deaths, with the vast majority of those having had underlying conditions.

The link you provided on Covid-19 deaths in Mexico shows 2,450 deaths (29%) in the 35-55 age group, with 1171 of those death (47%) having none of the underlying condition of obesity, diabetes or asthma.
There may be other reasons for such a high percentage of deaths in that age group, but at face value they do not follow the correlation between deaths and this virus we are seeing to date in Europe.

charlie14

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

Would you please, for the sake of not boring everyone to death, entertain the idea of letting go your hatred of the term “herd immunity”
I live in Stockholm. If I didn’t have the habit of wanting to read what people’s thoughts are in Ireland I would never hear the words herd immunity mentioned, in English or in Swedish. Not a single person I know in my day to day life has now or ever talked about the term you are so obviously obsessed with. I eat out for lunch every single day at work. I am happy to contribute to an industry that is in need of help. People don’t eat out or drink at coffee shops because it helps contribute to the herd immunity strategy. I and my colleagues do so for the sake of normalcy and knowing by doing so it keeps businesses ticking over.

Not true. I have no problem with the term herd immunity. Just the strategy undertaken to achieve it.
You on the other-hand do seem to have a major problem with the term.

I do not recall anyone in Ireland using the term "herd immunity" in any context other than in relation to Sweden.
So perhaps rather than have a go at me for using the term, with you living in Sweden you should consider doing so nearer home. And perhaps having done so much sooner than now if the term bothers you so much. Especially as another poster here is so found of saying, you cannot put the genie back in the bottle.

13th. March Giesecke was telling his then employers AP3 that it would all be over in 1 or 2 months by which time Sweden would have acquired herd immunity.
14th. March Tegnell was telling his Finnish counterpart Mika Salminen "One point would be to keep school open to reach herd immunity faster"
April 27th.Karin Ulrika Olofdotter Sweden`s ambassador to America in an interview broadcast by America`s National Public Radio stated "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early a next month"

charlie14

normanoffside wrote: »

So why did they have more infections than Us? They kept pubs and restaurants opened, people could still go to work on Public transport etc...




That's just rubbish of a making in your own head. Please show some evidence that this is true.


Again more rubbish, Sweden has ahigher urban population than Ireland (85% i Sweden to 63% In ireland

I've inserted my links there to prove the density thing- Sweden as a country may have an overall lower population density than Ireland but that because a huge amount of the country is uninhabitable- nobody lives there.

On your first point, is it not likely that the answer in in the second sentence.
On your second, I doubt many Swede`s would contradict what the poster said.
On your third, Sweden has over 50% single household occupancy compared to Ireland`s 22%.

eddie73

We wont know for a couple of years who got this right, but unfortunately for Sweden and the rest of the critically thinking global community, they don't control the narrative on this pandemic.

There are aspects of the Swedish approach that are ambitious as they are commendable. Their people would obey to the letter of the law what they are told to do and therefore, their level of personal responsibility would get them over the line. I wonder could we say the same about ourselves here?

normanoffside

charlie14 wrote: »

On your first point, is it not likely that the answer in in the second sentence.
On your second, I doubt many Swede`s would contradict what the poster said.
On your third, Sweden has over 50% single household occupancy compared to Ireland`s 22%.

Yes

I think Irish people are very complaint as was shown during our Lockdown.
We now have lockdown Fatigue.
Swedes haven't had to face these restriction.

Third point was about Urban/Rural dwelling not about single occupancy dwellings.

eddie73

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes

I think Irish people are very complaint as was shown during our Lockdown.
We now have lockdown Fatigue.
Swedes haven't had to face these restriction.

Third point was about Urban/Rural dwelling not about single occupancy dwellings.

Their lack of lock down fatigue is a very interesting point and something that the global community should take note of. Imagine if a 2nd, 3rd or 4th lock down were asked of the people in Lombardy or Madrid? How long would it last for? Would the population be given an amnesty from the banks re loans, rents and mortgages? Would they be on emergency government welfare indefinitely?

Time for lock down exponents to take note of these points.

The quickest vaccine ever was for the mumps. All 4 years plus the groundwork that went into it before hand.

https://www.history.com/news/mumps-vaccine-world-war-ii

If the Coronavirus vaccine gets through in 18 months, it will have skipped a number of big viruses including HIV in terms of the speed at which the vaccine was developed.

There is a huge point that people all seem to be overlooking too.

The most important way that you can prepare for the eventuality/possibility of getting infected by Covid 19 is to get yourself in very good physical shape.

Quit smoking, drinking to excess, eating processed and junk food. Take up exercise. Sleep well.

If younger people invested in this lifestyle now, by the time they are in their senior years, they will have prevented very many illnesses or at least dramatically improved their chances of fighting the illness. That would include covid 19.

We can't rely on the health services, pharmaceuticals, governments etc to stay well or get well if we get sick. Not for everything.

charlie14

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes

I think Irish people are very complaint as was shown during our Lockdown.
We now have lockdown Fatigue.
Swedes haven't had to face these restriction.

Third point was about Urban/Rural dwelling not about single occupancy dwellings.

Large numbers were not very complaint when asked voluntarily to social distance and avoid large crowds before the lockdown.
One of the reason behind lockdown was the behaviour the weekend before lockdown.
If we now have lockdown fatigue it will be due to many of the same cohort not following recommendations when lockdown was lifted.


Whether the occupancy is urban or rural, with over 50% single household occupancy as opposed to 22%, the possibility of household transmissions ( where many of ours are) and from there to community transmission will be greatly reduced.

normanoffside

charlie14 wrote: »

Large numbers were not very complaint when asked voluntarily to social distance and avoid large crowds before the lockdown.
One of the reason behind lockdown was the behaviour the weekend before lockdown.
If we now have lockdown fatigue it will be due to many of the same cohort not following recommendations when lockdown was lifted.

.

That was curtain twitching Hysteria at it's max, stoked by an hysterical media. Pictures published of people queuing for ice creams with no perspective of distance between people (they could ahve been 5m apart but you wouldn't know)

All of those scenes were outdoors which we now know is a very low risk environment and led to silly requirement which served no purpose (not to travel more the 2km from home).

I'm sure those kinds of scenes would have happened anywhere but the Swedish authorities used some common sense and didn't stoke the Hysteria.

The fact that our Government's policy was led by pictures and videos on twitter says it all.

charlie14

normanoffside wrote: »

That was curtain twitching Hysteria at it's max, stoked by an hysterical media. Pictures published of people queuing for ice creams with no perspective of distance between people (they could ahve been 5m apart but you wouldn't know)

All of those scenes were outdoors which we now know is a very low risk environment and led to silly requirement which served no purpose (not to travel more the 2km from home).

I'm sure those kinds of scenes would have happened anywhere but the Swedish authorities used some common sense and didn't stoke the Hysteria.

The fact that our Government's policy was led by pictures and videos on twitter says it all.

The pubs and nightclubs that were jammed to the rafters the weekend before lockdown.
Do you believe that was the media employing stand-ins ?

You appear to believe there were no restrictions in Sweden as regards numbers and social distancing in Sweden.

normanoffside

charlie14 wrote: »

The pubs and nightclubs that were jammed to the rafters the weekend before lockdown.
Do you believe that was the media employing stand-ins ?

No I agreed with that. Clearly that would have been a high risk of transmission. By the way the pubs closed themselves, not the government long before the Government brought in the restrictions

charlie14 wrote: »

You appear to believe there were no restrictions in Sweden as regards numbers and social distancing in Sweden.

No I don't

charlie14

eddie73 wrote: »

Their lack of lock down fatigue is a very interesting point and something that the global community should take note of. Imagine if a 2nd, 3rd or 4th lock down were asked of the people in Lombardy or Madrid? How long would it last for? Would the population be given an amnesty from the banks re loans, rents and mortgages? Would they be on emergency government welfare indefinitely?

Time for lock down exponents to take note of these points.

The quickest vaccine ever was for the mumps. All 4 years plus the groundwork that went into it before hand.

https://www.history.com/news/mumps-vaccine-world-war-ii

If the Coronavirus vaccine gets through in 18 months, it will have skipped a number of big viruses including HIV in terms of the speed at which the vaccine was developed.

There is a huge point that people all seem to be overlooking too.

The most important way that you can prepare for the eventuality/possibility of getting infected by Covid 19 is to get yourself in very good physical shape.

Quit smoking, drinking to excess, eating processed and junk food. Take up exercise. Sleep well.

If younger people invested in this lifestyle now, by the time they are in their senior years, they will have prevented very many illnesses or at least dramatically improved their chances of fighting the illness. That would include covid 19.

We can't rely on the health services, pharmaceuticals, governments etc to stay well or get well if we get sick. Not for everything.

Leading a health lifestyle will in general improve your chances of staying health and prolong your life but in the short to medium term it will do sweet f a as regards Covid-19.
There are various vaccines in Phase 3 development. Many of which we will know their value by years end or earlier.
Even Sweden has a commitment from AstraZeneca on 6 million vaccines with an option on 2 million more, and are in negotiations with other companies for a further 10 million and intend to commence vaccinations early next year.

charlie14

normanoffside wrote: »

No I agreed with that. Clearly that would have been a high risk of transmission. By the way the pubs closed themselves, not the government long before the Government brought in the restrictions



No I don't

Not saying they were not socially responsible for doing so, but what were their options after the government asked them to.
Stay open until the legislation was voted through and annoy the hell out of an Garda Síochána for a few days which would mean the same Garda Síochána living with them for year to come

Spiderman0081

charlie14 wrote: »

Leading a health lifestyle will in general improve your chances of staying health and prolong your life but in the short to medium term it will do sweet f a as regards Covid-19.
There are various vaccines in Phase 3 development. Many of which we will know their value by years end or earlier.
Even Sweden has a commitment from AstraZeneca on 6 million vaccines with an option on 2 million more, and are in negotiations with other companies for a further 10 million and intend to commence vaccinations early next year.

Why say “Even Sweden”?
Is Sweden anti vaccine from your understanding?

charlie14

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

Why say “Even Sweden”?
Is Sweden anti vaccine from your understanding?

I never said Sweden was actually anti vaccine.
I have said that perhaps due to narcolepsy linked to the 2009 Swedish swine flu vaccine, Tegnell and Carlson, who shipped criticism on that, were not keen on following the vaccine route.

Either way, especially from Geisecke`s contribution to the discussion as early as March, and the influence he appeared to have with Tegnell and Carlson (often referring to them as my boys it seems), whether you wish to ignore it or not, it was all about organically acquired herd immunity back then

The "even Sweden" meant that imo the thinking on vaccination, (mainly due to the antibody test results on which a lot of this immunity theory was based ),that now even in Sweden it is recognised that this the best hope of fighting this virus.

eddie73

charlie14 wrote: »

Leading a health lifestyle will in general improve your chances of staying health and prolong your life but in the short to medium term it will do sweet f a as regards Covid-19.
There are various vaccines in Phase 3 development. Many of which we will know their value by years end or earlier.
Even Sweden has a commitment from AstraZeneca on 6 million vaccines with an option on 2 million more, and are in negotiations with other companies for a further 10 million and intend to commence vaccinations early next year.

Strongly disagree with this.

Michael Osterholm, who wrote the book on this whole thing, used this as his mantra right through the pandemic. Ahead of everything else in fact.
If you are in good physical shape, you stand a much much greater chance of coming through to the other side of infection than if you are in poor physical health.

Waiting for a vaccine is a very long shot. Time and safety are massively compromised if you rush a vaccine through. Remember, this is something that goes directly into your blood and passes through the blood brain barrier without any mediation.
Exercising social distancing is good, but if your job relies on people under your roof, then what?

The safety net should have exercise, diet and sleep as the foundations.

charlie14

eddie73 wrote: »

Strongly disagree with this.

Michael Osterholm, who wrote the book on this whole thing, used this as his mantra right through the pandemic. Ahead of everything else in fact.
If you are in good physical shape, you stand a much much greater chance of coming through to the other side of infection than if you are in poor physical health.

Waiting for a vaccine is a very long shot. Time and safety are massively compromised if you rush a vaccine through. Remember, this is something that goes directly into your blood and passes through the blood brain barrier without any mediation.
Exercising social distancing is good, but if your job relies on people under your roof, then what?

The safety net should have exercise, diet and sleep as the foundations.

These vaccine are going through the same development phases as always with the same safety protocols. The difference now is the amount of resources being devoted to them..
Whenever someone comes up with "time and safety are massively compromised if you rush" my first thought is the exact same thing was more than likely said about the Model T Ford.
As I said earlier, we will know with some of these vaccines within a matter of months what they can do, so there is no long shot there.





If you are in good physical shape and you do not have any underlying condition or within certain age groups you have a great chance of surviving this virus.
If you are not, even if it was physically possible for all of the rest, for the vast majority how fit they get will not greatly change their odds of survival if the catch this virus, whereas a vaccine quite possibly would.
There is also the consideration of how long it would take for those even capable of reaching that stage of good physical shape.

There is also the consideration that regardless of how fit you are, (and it is increasingly looking so), that contracting this virus can have long term effects for your health.
To each their own, but for me the vaccine route outweighs the physically fit one I`m afraid.

mcsean2163

Akrasia wrote: »

If the concerns were valid then they would be given consideration, but the people who go to these protests are mainly conspiracy theorists who have completely lost touch with reality, and their deranged views should not be pandered to or given legitimacy

Time for Truth Donegal-Derry group On Facebook is full of misinformation and people sharing false stories about people getting lung infections because of their masks

If that's how psychologists/ psychiatrists approached their patients...

Respect and listening are key IMHO.

mcsean2163

charlie14 wrote: »

There are differences in every country as to how certain sectors of their population are treated.
I may have missed it, but I am not aware of any other country where 29% of those who died were in the 35-55 age group ?

From what we have seen so far their is a correlation between this virus and deaths.
The vast majority of deaths are in the elderly age groups.
The 35-55 aged group make up a small percentage of Covid-19 deaths, with the vast majority of those having had underlying conditions.

The link you provided on Covid-19 deaths in Mexico shows 2,450 deaths (29%) in the 35-55 age group, with 1171 of those death (47%) having none of the underlying condition of obesity, diabetes or asthma.
There may be other reasons for such a high percentage of deaths in that age group, but at face value they do not follow the correlation between deaths and this virus we are seeing to date in Europe.

Ok, another clue. Japan.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20198796v1

<i>Conclusions and Relevance: COVID-19 infection may have spread widely across the general population of Tokyo despite the very low fatality rate. Given the temporal correlation between the rise in seropositivity and the decrease in reported COVID-19 cases that occurred without a shut-down, herd immunity may be implicated. Sequential testing for serological response against COVID-19 is useful for understanding the dynamics of COVID-19 infection at the population-level.</i>


Mexico, Japan and Slovakia. Spot the difference. There's something obvious and it's nothing to do with 5g or space aliens.

bb1234567

1 in 3 people in Japan is over 60, it is impossible, just impossible, that Tokyo is at herd immunity with under 1000 deaths, unless some other kind of virus is circulating there to the one in the rest of the world

patnor1011

bb1234567 wrote: »

1 in 3 people in Japan is over 60, it is impossible, just impossible, that Tokyo is at herd immunity with under 1000 deaths, unless some other kind of virus is circulating there to the one in the rest of the world

Could be also diet thing. Japan eats tons of vegetables and seafood. Slovakia again vegetables. We here tend to think that couple spoons of boiled peas, carrot or turnip are all we need.
Also according to latest cdc best current estimates IFR of over 70 is just 0.054 and 50-69 years 0.005

MOH

normanoffside wrote: »

That was curtain twitching Hysteria at it's max, stoked by an hysterical media. Pictures published of people queuing for ice creams with no perspective of distance between people (they could ahve been 5m apart but you wouldn't know)

All of those scenes were outdoors which we now know is a very low risk environment and led to silly requirement which served no purpose (not to travel more the 2km from home).
.

The notion that Irish people were very compliant is ludicrous.

And that's not based on any media coverage, just what I saw around me on a regular basis.

eddie73

charlie14 wrote: »

These vaccine are going through the same development phases as always with the same safety protocols. The difference now is the amount of resources being devoted to them.

.

If there is less time being given to the vaccine trial in terms of outcome, the safety protocols are way off despite the resources they are being given.

Whenever someone comes up with "time and safety are massively compromised if you rush" my first thought is the exact same thing was more than likely said about the Model T Ford.

What was "likely" said about the Model T Ford is a discussion for another day.
Americans could just as easily been Gung ho over the car.

As I said earlier, we will know with some of these vaccines within a matter of months what they can do, so there is no long shot there.


How can you say this in clinical terms?

For the vast majority how fit they get will not greatly change their odds of survival if the catch this virus, whereas a vaccine quite possibly would.
There is also the consideration of how long it would take for those even capable of reaching that stage of good physical shape.

It would take around 6 weeks for noticeable change to happen levels of fitness after weight loss and cardio gains. 6 months would see a transformation. Can you say the same thing about waiting time for a vaccine? Every young and middle aged person should start exercising and eating well this morning, as a mater of urgency.

There is also the consideration that regardless of how fit you are, (and it is increasingly looking so), that contracting this virus can have long term effects for your health.

You can say the same thing about every single disease out there, but people aren't obsessed with these stats the same way that Coronavirus has captured the imagination.

To summarize my points, exercise, diet and good sleep are Osterholm's best case advice for now in terms of safeguarding the population from the potentially worst effects of this virus. Mask wearing and avoiding indoor congregations if possible would be strongly advisable likewise.

Crashing the global economy and waiting for a vaccine is not a long term solution for this crisis.

JimmyVik

bb1234567 wrote: »

1 in 3 people in Japan is over 60, it is impossible, just impossible, that Tokyo is at herd immunity with under 1000 deaths, unless some other kind of virus is circulating there to the one in the rest of the world

Anyone who has ever worked in Japan will tell you never ever believe anything the Japanese tell you. They will lie like nobodies business to give their boss the answer that is expected. And then their boss will lie up the chain. It is expected.

There is even a name for the behavior it is so ingrained in Japanese culture.
Cant think of it off the top of my head now. Its a good few years since I worked there.

charlie14

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Ok, another clue. Japan.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20198796v1

<i>Conclusions and Relevance: COVID-19 infection may have spread widely across the general population of Tokyo despite the very low fatality rate. Given the temporal correlation between the rise in seropositivity and the decrease in reported COVID-19 cases that occurred without a shut-down, herd immunity may be implicated. Sequential testing for serological response against COVID-19 is useful for understanding the dynamics of COVID-19 infection at the population-level.</i>


Mexico, Japan and Slovakia. Spot the difference. There's something obvious and it's nothing to do with 5g or space aliens.

Short on time at the moment to go through all that, but first thought is how is that relative to so many in the 35-55 age group dying due to Covid-19 in Mexico.

Second thought : Spain population 47 million, 735,000 cases and a large country-wide survey showing no sign of herd immunity,
Japan population 126 million, 82,000 cases and they have herd immunity based on a much smaller survey.
Something just does not add up. Especially with, as another poster has pointed out, the elderly statistics for Japan.

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

I don`t see where this superior strategy is evident.

Sweden have 60% more Codid-19 deaths per capita.
Economical their GDP for the last quarter was 40% inferior.
Their confirmed cases are rising. Especially in Stockholm, their epicenter,which has to raise questions on claims which were being made by some on herd immunity.

Could you tell the advantages of Irish strategy over Swedish, other than Ireland had 0.04% of population die with covid while Sweden had 0.06%? Which strategy will yield more unemployment? Which strategy is more sustainable in the long term?

Also could you please stop saying "herd immunity"? You've mentioned it in every 2nd post over the last week.... genuinely like a broken record now.

Ginger n Lemon

charlie14 wrote: »

These vaccine are going through the same development phases as always with the same safety protocols. The difference now is the amount of resources being devoted to them..
Whenever someone comes up with "time and safety are massively compromised if you rush" my first thought is the exact same thing was more than likely said about the Model T Ford.
As I said earlier, we will know with some of these vaccines within a matter of months what they can do, so there is no long shot there.





If you are in good physical shape and you do not have any underlying condition or within certain age groups you have a great chance of surviving this virus.
If you are not, even if it was physically possible for all of the rest, for the vast majority how fit they get will not greatly change their odds of survival if the catch this virus, whereas a vaccine quite possibly would.
There is also the consideration of how long it would take for those even capable of reaching that stage of good physical shape.

There is also the consideration that regardless of how fit you are, (and it is increasingly looking so), that contracting this virus can have long term effects for your health.
To each their own, but for me the vaccine route outweighs the physically fit one I`m afraid.

Those 2 sentences in bold are pretty horrifying Charlie

"But what will happen to the companies that make and market the vaccine if people discover they’ve been harmed by a product that was hastily brought to market? According to a law passed this spring, pretty much nothing. An amendment to the PREP Act, which was updated in April, stipulates that companies “cannot be sued for money damages in court” over injuries caused by medical countermeasures for Covid-19. Such countermeasures include vaccines, therapeutics, and respiratory devices. The only exception to this immunity is if death or serious physical injury is caused by “willful misconduct.” And even then, the people who are harmed will have to meet heightened standards for “willful misconduct” that are favorable to defendants."

https://theintercept.com/2020/08/28/coronavirus-vaccine-prep-act/

I know its futile, but why do you think above is the case? More importantly, if, traditionally and historically vaccines were solid & proper and helped people, would there even be a need for such to be instated in law?

Oh look

“The speed and scale of development and rollout do mean that it is impossible to generate the same amount of underlying evidence that normally would be available through extensive clinical trials and healthcare providers building experience,” reads a memo circulated to members by Vaccines Europe, a division of the European Federation of Pharmaceutical Industries and Associations. 

The document says that this creates “inevitable” risks.

https://www.ft.com/content/12f7da5b-92c8-4050-bcea-e726b75eef4d

I hope you realize how wrong you are, and that if you dont want to / unwilling to change your views, then at least dont spread misinformation of "These vaccine are going through the same development phases as always "

Actual, tested, reliable vaccine is 3-5 years away. It is really that simple. And that is why Swedish strategy is much more superior than this yoyo lockdown nonsense we have and we ll be experiencing for years to come (assuming we dont come to our senses).

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Could you tell the advantages of Irish strategy over Swedish, other than Ireland had 0.04% of population die with covid while Sweden had 0.06%? Which strategy will yield more unemployment? Which strategy is more sustainable in the long term?

Also could you please stop saying "herd immunity"? You've mentioned it in every 2nd post over the last week.... genuinely like a broken record now.

The post you are replying to listed the advantage to date.
60% less deaths and a better GDP. Even with lockdown.
With some workers in Sweden being regarded as being on forlough rather than being unemployed, then on unemployment figures it is difficult to make comparisons.
Bloomberg estimated at one stage that when those on furlough were included the true figure for Sweden was 17%. Same as here then as far as I recall. But you already know all this.
Ireland`s income tax returns were down by just 2% during lockdown, so rather than having to yet again repeat the above to you, why not do a bit of research yourself and tell me how the Swedish income tax returns were for the same period ?

On herd immunity, a very pot, kettle, black remark from someone who has posted the same Giesecke video interview so often that if it was a record the needle would have worn through at this stage.

At a conservative estimate I reckon 9 out of 10 times lately my mention of herd immunity has been due to you and others abject refusal to accept that certain e-mails even exist. Let alone show that from the outset herd immunity was at the heart of the Swedish strategy.
Those e-mails along with Annika Linde`s comments after the results of the first antibody results, and Karin Ulrika Olofdotter`s April interview on America`s National Public Radio now make it comically farcical to claim otherwise.