Sweden avoiding lockdown

normanoffside

MOH wrote: »

The notion that Irish people were very compliant is ludicrous.

And that's not based on any media coverage, just what I saw around me on a regular basis.

Have you lived anywhere else to compare?

dubrov

charlie14 wrote: »

At a conservative estimate I reckon 9 out of 10 times lately my mention of herd immunity has been due to you and others abject refusal to accept that certain e-mails even exist.

I'm pretty sure you've mentioned that term 9 out of the last 10 times

charlie14

dubrov wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you've mentioned that term 9 out of the last 10 times

.... and as I said, I`m pretty sure that has been because of the comical farce of some attempting to ignore e-mails and facts that show it at the heart of the Swedish strategy from the outset.

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Those 2 sentences in bold are pretty horrifying Charlie

"But what will happen to the companies that make and market the vaccine if people discover they’ve been harmed by a product that was hastily brought to market? According to a law passed this spring, pretty much nothing. An amendment to the PREP Act, which was updated in April, stipulates that companies “cannot be sued for money damages in court” over injuries caused by medical countermeasures for Covid-19. Such countermeasures include vaccines, therapeutics, and respiratory devices. The only exception to this immunity is if death or serious physical injury is caused by “willful misconduct.” And even then, the people who are harmed will have to meet heightened standards for “willful misconduct” that are favorable to defendants."

https://theintercept.com/2020/08/28/coronavirus-vaccine-prep-act/

I know its futile, but why do you think above is the case? More importantly, if, traditionally and historically vaccines were solid & proper and helped people, would there even be a need for such to be instated in law?

Oh look

“The speed and scale of development and rollout do mean that it is impossible to generate the same amount of underlying evidence that normally would be available through extensive clinical trials and healthcare providers building experience,” reads a memo circulated to members by Vaccines Europe, a division of the European Federation of Pharmaceutical Industries and Associations.

The document says that this creates “inevitable” risks.

https://www.ft.com/content/12f7da5b-92c8-4050-bcea-e726b75eef4d

I hope you realize how wrong you are, and that if you dont want to / unwilling to change your views, then at least dont spread misinformation of "These vaccine are going through the same development phases as always "

Actual, tested, reliable vaccine is 3-5 years away. It is really that simple. And that is why Swedish strategy is much more superior than this yoyo lockdown nonsense we have and we ll be experiencing for years to come (assuming we dont come to our senses).

I have neither the time or the inclination to go down side-roads with you on vaccines.
If you are genuinely concerned on those points there is an excellent thread here with some extremely knowledgeable posters on the subject who I`m sure will be able to address your concerns.
Covid-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread.
I look forward to seeing how you get on there.


As to the highlighted.

All vaccines in development now will go through the same phases of testing, following the same safety protocols as usual.
At least three are now in phase 3 where they expect results within the next few months.

At that point they will deliver these results to the relevant authorities same as usual. The FDA in the USA being one example. If these authorities approve the vaccine they issue a licence allowing the vaccine to be marketed. Again,same as usual

Seeing this is a thread dealing with Sweden, fair to point out I believe that Sweden have more faith in procedures than yourself.
They have stated they hope to have 18 million vaccine dosages from various sources and intend to begin vaccinations early next year.

patnor1011

As usual, as usual...

Nowhere near as usual. Perhaps you did not hear stuff like a delayed response or long term damage. That is why every vaccine to this date was tested and subjects monitored for years.

SeaBreezes

https://twitter.com/JoannaTeglund/status/1310629469942673412?s=19

charlie14

patnor1011 wrote: »

As usual, as usual...

Nowhere near as usual. Perhaps you did not hear stuff like a delayed response or long term damage. That is why every vaccine to this date was tested and subjects monitored for years.

Exactly as usual.
The three phases of these vaccines development are, and have been, followed the same as always.


At least three vaccines are now in Phase 3, where upon completion if the companies involved are satisfied with the results they will apply to the relevant authorities for licensing.

Those authorities will evaluate the vaccine for safety and efficacy and if satisfied on both will issue a license. Same as always.
Many vaccines undergo a Phase 4. Formal ongoing studies after the vaccine is approved and licensed. I do not see any reason to believe that will be any different now.

dubrov

charlie14 wrote: »

Exactly as usual.
The three phases of these vaccines development are, and have been, followed the same as always.

How long do you think a Phase 3 trial normally takes?

begbysback

dubrov wrote: »

How long do you think a Phase 3 trial normally takes?

Can we stop using numeric phases please as it discriminates against those of us that can’t count, maybe we could go in alphabetical order like A B H I L instead?

TonyMaloney

https://twitter.com/johnmcclean_ie/status/1310919321800110080?s=20

the incredible pudding

Have to take the above numbers into context. Divide the above by 4 and you have ~352 per day on average for that period.
The cases are growing relative to the lull but it's not a 'huge' spike. It's a gradual increase.

tobefrank321

TonyMaloney wrote: »

https://twitter.com/johnmcclean_ie/status/1310919321800110080?s=20

Do you understand the Tuesday numbers are the total for the 4 previous days?

If we took the same approach in Ireland, our Tuesday number would be something like 1400.

As for the 10 deaths, that's also a total for 4 days, and many of those most likely died of something else but also had covid at time of death.

Regards new cases, we're doing much worse than the Swedes who never locked down. 400 new cases in Ireland is about the equivalent of 850 a day in Sweden.

TonyMaloney

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Do you understand the Tuesday numbers are the total for the 4 previous days?

If we took the same approach in Ireland, our Tuesday number would be something like 1400.

As for the 10 deaths, that's also a total for 4 days, and many of those most likely died of something else but also had covid at time of death.

Regards new cases, we're doing much worse than the Swedes who never locked down. 400 new cases in Ireland is about the equivalent of 850 a day in Sweden.

I'm not suggesting that our current case numbers are better than Sweden's.

This is simply evidence of the Virus is taking off in Sweden again. Significant growth in cases and positivity rate.

Tegnell really should've held off on the victory parade

bb1234567

Secondary waves are inevitable in Sweden,regions with much higher rates of seroprevalence such as Iran and Manaus are experiencing second and even third waves of infections . Sweden will more than likely not be an exception to this global pattern.

cnocbui

There might be treatments that have an an impact sooner than vaccines:

Australian nasal spray claims to reduce Covid-19 growth by 96%
A study on ferrets showed the product dubbed INNA-051, which could be used complementary to vaccines, lowered the levels of the virus that causes Covid-19 by up to 96 per cent, the company said.

Spiderman0081

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that our current case numbers are better than Sweden's.

This is simply evidence of the Virus is taking off in Sweden again. Significant growth in cases and positivity rate.

Tegnell really should've held off on the victory parade

Where was this victory parade held? Are there any photos?

Tenzor07

Getting back on topic..

There won't be another lockdown in Sweden..

While Ireland fumbles around with Lockdowns 1, 2, 3.5, 4.5, 5 And slowly causes the economy to shatter, the Swedes will continue on...

Bit cynical

bb1234567 wrote: »

Secondary waves are inevitable in Sweden,regions with much higher rates of seroprevalence such as Iran and Manaus are experiencing second and even third waves of infections . Sweden will more than likely not be an exception to this global pattern.

Do you have any data for this in Manaus? About two thirds of the population of the state of Amazonas live in Manaus but there does not seem to be an indication of a second wave in the state as a whole which you would expect if the capital is having a resurgence.

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-IE&mid=%2Fm%2F01hdky&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen

Widdensushi

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Getting back on topic..

There won't be another lockdown in Sweden..

While Ireland fumbles around with Lockdowns 1, 2, 3.5, 4.5, 5 And slowly causes the economy to shatter, the Swedes will continue on...

No lockdown in the first place

thebaz

How I wish Ireland acted like Sweden , basically asking its adults to behave in an adult manner , instead of our Nanny state NPHET dictating to every adult in the state how to live for the next 12 months , with FEAR inducing over-dramatics amplified by our mainstream media, instead of really looking at the facts - The death rate is not what we suspected back in March but this seams to have been lost on our supposed betters - Sweden , thankfully has not suffered the fate many of us feared last March , but this too is lost by NPHET and Glynn's in ther constant fear and doom lectures , ther is risk in most aspects of life , this is a virus , a virus that can not now be defeated by never ending lockdown. They talk about living with the virus, that is what Swededn are doing , asking its citizens to be responsible , yet 6 months on we are dictated to like naughty children. On a practical note - how many more ICU beds have they built in the past 6 months ?, have they investigated Vitamin D therapy ? - somehow I think the lack of ICU beds is the real problem here, a problem Sweden have addressed.

Tenzor07

Widdensushi wrote: »

No lockdown in the first place

No enforced lockdown like what we have in Ireland and UK, technically there was/is Lockdown measures in Sweden that businesses and citizens have cooperated with..

Tenzor07

thebaz wrote: »

How I wish Ireland acted like Sweden , basically asking its adults to behave in an adult manner , instead of our Nanny state NPHET dictating to every adult in the state how to live for the next 12 months , with FEAR inducing over-dramatics amplified by our mainstream media, instead of really looking at the facts - The death rate is not what we suspected back in March but this seams to have been lost on our supposed betters - Sweden , thankfully has not suffered the fate many of us feared last March , but this too is lost by NPHET and Glynn's in ther constant fear and doom lectures , ther is risk in most aspects of life , this is a virus , a virus that can not now be defeated by never ending lockdown. They talk about living with the virus, that is what Swededn are doing , asking its citizens to be responsible , yet 6 months on we are dictated to like naughty children. On a practical note - how many more ICU beds have they built in the past 6 months ?, have they investigated Vitamin D therapy ? - somehow I think the lack of ICU beds is the real problem here, a problem Sweden have addressed.

The Covid situation was/is the World Cup, the Grand National and the Olympics for the Medics on the NPHET Junta, they get to wheel out policy based on what MAY happen in the future using graphs based on maths from professors that spend their entire lives in academia... And passed onto a spineless Government which follow the recommendations to the letter, only now passed through yet another layer of wasteful bureaucracy for the sake of optics.. Only Varadkar had a go at not following the NPHET rules to the letter..now beat down by the increase in testing cases you won't get anyone else in FFFG standing up to the NPHETS rulings..

charlie14

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Do you understand the Tuesday numbers are the total for the 4 previous days?

If we took the same approach in Ireland, our Tuesday number would be something like 1400.

As for the 10 deaths, that's also a total for 4 days, and many of those most likely died of something else but also had covid at time of death.

Regards new cases, we're doing much worse than the Swedes who never locked down. 400 new cases in Ireland is about the equivalent of 850 a day in Sweden.

From what I can make of Sweden`s figures.
On the 22nd.Sweden had 89,436 confirmed cases. 29th it`s 92,466. 20 deaths in that time.
There appears to be serious concerns over Stockholm.
Last week 923 cases there compared to 537 for the previous week.
From 23,656 tests last week 4.!% were positive (923)
Week before, 27,062 the week before 2.2% were positive (537)

charlie14

Tenzor07 wrote: »

No enforced lockdown like what we have in Ireland and UK, technically there was/is Lockdown measures in Sweden that businesses and citizens have cooperated with..

Student`s in Sweden, similar to our own, to not appear too co-operative.
64 confirmed cases in one university and at least 10 in another according to Swedish media.

normanoffside

charlie14 wrote: »

Student`s in Sweden, similar to our own, to not appear too co-operative.
64 confirmed cases in one university and at least 10 in another according to Swedish media.

But I thought the Swedes were 100% compliant unlike the uncivilised Irish?

bb1234567

Bit cynical wrote: »

Do you have any data for this in Manaus? About two thirds of the population of the state of Amazonas live in Manaus but there does not seem to be an indication of a second wave in the state as a whole which you would expect if the capital is having a resurgence.

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-IE&mid=%2Fm%2F01hdky&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen

Not data as such I just heard in some news articles there was a resurgence of deaths and cases
https://www.dw.com/en/brazils-hard-hit-manaus-faces-coronavirus-second-wave/av-55075262
Honestly I havn't looked into it properly yet which I probably should have

charlie14

Bit cynical wrote: »

Do you have any data for this in Manaus? About two thirds of the population of the state of Amazonas live in Manaus but there does not seem to be an indication of a second wave in the state as a whole which you would expect if the capital is having a resurgence.

https://news.google.com/covid19/map?hl=en-IE&mid=%2Fm%2F01hdky&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen

21st. September Published by MedRxiv titled : Covid-19 herd immunity in the Brazilian Amazon.

From test results carried out in June, researchers said they showed 44% of the population of Manaus was seropositive. They adjusted for this dropping in the months since, but at the time of publishing they estimated that 66% of the city`s population had herd immunity.

27th. September because of rising numbers, bars and riverside beaches closed, restrictions on restaurants and shopping hours, and a 30 day ban on parties and gatherings.

Bit cynical

charlie14 wrote: »

27th. September because of rising numbers, bars and riverside beaches closed, restrictions on restaurants and shopping hours, and a 30 day ban on parties and gatherings.

Yes I have read that too, but what I'm looking for is actual numbers relating to a rise in daily cases, a graph or something like that for the city. As I pointed pointed out earlier, not much is changing in Amazonas state of which Manaus is the capital and makes up two-thirds of the population.

Bit cynical

charlie14 wrote: »

21st. September Published by MedRxiv titled : Covid-19 herd immunity in the Brazilian Amazon.

From test results carried out in June, researchers said they showed 44% of the population of Manaus was seropositive. They adjusted for this dropping in the months since, but at the time of publishing they estimated that 66% of the city`s population had herd immunity.

27th. September because of rising numbers, bars and riverside beaches closed, restrictions on restaurants and shopping hours, and a 30 day ban on parties and gatherings.

But what are the actual figures for this rise and why are they not impacting on the numbers for Amazonas state as a whole, two-thirds of which live in Manaus?

charlie14

Bit cynical wrote: »

Yes I have read that too, but what I'm looking for is actual numbers relating to a rise in daily cases, a graph or something like that for the city. As I pointed pointed out earlier, not much is changing in Amazonas state of which Manaus is the capital and makes up two-thirds of the population.

I can not find one either, but if they have started closing bars and riverside beaches, as well as restrictions on restaurants, parties, gathering and shopping hours, then I would imaging the numbers are rising. Not something you would expect if 66% have immunity.