Sweden avoiding lockdown

321123

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Shes definately not a fan of Tegnell but backs up ALL her stats.

No arguing with the statistical truth.

She just takes the stats of people that have died with and/or of Covid. Then to that she goes to the palliative care registry and just take anyone getting palliative care with Covid. What she misses/refuses to understand is that everyone dying in Sweden 30 days after a positive Covid test or with suspected Covid are classified as dead with Covid. So in the total death toll are already including the patients in the palliative register that died with/off Covid. She just is not smart enough to understand this.

Linking to Joanna on Twitter is like linking to the anti-5G people's stats for Covid. It just paints you in bad colours.

Allinall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

We both know that CT paid up to November 2020 is for 2019.

Large companies
Large companies can pay their preliminary CT in two instalments when their accounting period is longer than seven months.

The first instalment is due on the 23rd of the sixth month of the accounting period. The amount due is either:

50% of the CT liability for the previous accounting period
45% of the CT liability for the current accounting period.
The second instalment is due on the 23rd of the eleventh month. This will bring the preliminary tax up to 90% of the final tax due for the current accounting period.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/corporation-tax-for-companies/corporation-tax-payment-and-filing/when-is-preliminary-ct-due.aspx

Most companies pay prior year tax for the current period, as its too difficult to estimate the 45% of current.

As I said, in 2020 so far we have been collecting CT 2019 tax.

I dont know if you left this part conveniently out of your post, I ll give you benefit of the doubt.

In my experience most companies have a 31st December year end.

This means that at least 90% of their CT liability for 2020 will be paid in 2020.

Similar for any company with a July onwards year end.

the incredible pudding

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Shes definately not a fan of Tegnell but backs up ALL her stats.

No arguing with the statistical truth.

Her stats are nonsense, or rather her interpretation of them are. It's very easy to draw nonsense from stats. We had courses in Psychology where you're taught the dangers and pitfalls of this.

She's stating that every death that had paliative care involved was a death from Covid whether or not it was marked as such (and there are some there). She has absolutely no basis for this.
If you actually look at the stats using her own very source, there were more deaths the previous year where paliative care took place than this year. (4335 vs 4154). Does this mean that the years before (that actually had more deaths with Paliative care associated involved) were covered up too? Is this part of the secret deliberate 'Senicide' you keep spouting on about?
It's chem-trails in the sky are brainwashing your children levels of b**l**** that's frankly obscene and distasteful.

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Speechless. You cant answer 1 question.

Very poor.

Charlie, is below correct?

Ireland deaths with covid 1,800. Population 4,900,000. 0.04%

Sweden deaths with covid 5,800. Population 10,230,000. 0.06%

I have already told you on numerous occasion.

Despite your silly little attempts at mathematical gymnastics, Ireland has 1,806 deaths due to Covid-19. Sweden 5,890.
Allowing for population size that means Sweden has 2,278 more deaths (63%) due to Covid-19 than Ireland.


Any chance you will cop yourself on anytime soon and answer questions put to you rather than these childish transparent attempts at evasion and distraction ?

charlie14

321123 wrote: »

The areas in Stockholm that was the hardest hit in the spring (Rinkeby/Tensta) now have the lowest numbers. The current spread comes from the wealthy inner city areas (Östermalm) and the rich suburban areas out on the islands (Vaxholm). Both areas with little covid in the spring (compared to rest of Stockholm). It is interesting to read comments from so called "experts" that clearly haven't an actual clue on the situation in Sweden.

That may indeed be the case regarding Stockholm, but with Stockholm being the epicenter of Sweden`s infections, does it not fly in the face of all these theories on immunity that have been doing the rounds on this thread to explain the drop in cases for the months prior to this upsurge ?


As far as I know you are living in Sweden so perhaps you may know if this is correct or not.
I read recently in The Local.se that when calculating the Ro number Sweden disregards those who have tested positive with mild conditions.

Vieira82

charlie14 wrote: »

I have already told you on numerous occasion.

Despite your silly little attempts at mathematical gymnastics, Ireland has 1,806 deaths due to Covid-19. Sweden 5,890.
Allowing for population size that means Sweden has 2,278 more deaths (63%) due to Covid-19 than Ireland.


Any chance you will cop yourself on anytime soon and answer questions put to you rather than these childish transparent attempts at evasion and distraction ?

Add to this you can't ever make a direct comparison. Countries with very different demographics. Sweden only comparable to other Nordic countries, Ireland can only be compared to the UK (similar demographic and culture) Same way you can't go and compare southern European countries with northern European countries Why? There's way more elderly in Spain and Italy for ex.

Comparing Ireland to Sweden is the same as comparing Ireland to Timbukto or the Maldives... very very different countries in many aspects and of course it also depends on what decisions politicians take...

However compare Sweden to Norway, Denmark and Finland and Sweden looks like a covidapocalipse.

On the other hand if you compare Ireland to the UK then you can clearly see how we're doing much better. However population density is astronomical in the UK and low in Ireland. So while it is the most approachable direct comparison in this case it's still very flawed.

Ad to that Ireland being an Island which means way less chances of cross boarder infection like it happens in mainland Europe where the virus "hapilly" danced from country to country back in March and only there was the suspension of the Schengen agreement this spread stop. But by then everyone was dealing with outbreaks in their own countries...

Bit cynical

charlie14 wrote: »

That may indeed be the case regarding Stockholm, but with Stockholm being the epicenter of Sweden`s infections, does it not fly in the face of all these theories on immunity that have been doing the rounds on this thread to explain the drop in cases for the months prior to this upsurge ?

Easy enough to come up with an explanation why an afluent sector in Stockholm managed to avoid infection: perhaps they were in a better position to work from home during the height of the outbreak. Now that it appears the main outbreak is over, they are coming out and resuming normal activity. However, because they avoided infection in the first place, they lack immunity and so are vulnerable which is why infections are happening among these people now.

charlie14

Bit cynical wrote: »

Easy enough to come up with an explanation why an fluent sector Stockholm managed to avoid infection: perhaps they were in a better position to work from home during the height of the outbreak. Now that it appears the main outbreak is over, they are coming out and resuming normal activity. However, because they avoided infection in the first place, they lack immunity and so are vulnerable which is infections are happening among these people now.

That indeed may be so, but does it not negate the theories that based on the numbers of infections in a particular area, (or indeed country), that because of the numbers infected, an exponential number of others have also been infected and thus the total number has reached or exceeded what is required to provide so called herd immunity.

charlie14

Vieira82 wrote: »

Add to this you can't ever make a direct comparison. Countries with very different demographics. Sweden only comparable to other Nordic countries, Ireland can only be compared to the UK (similar demographic and culture) Same way you can't go and compare southern European countries with northern European countries Why? There's way more elderly in Spain and Italy for ex.

Comparing Ireland to Sweden is the same as comparing Ireland to Timbukto or the Maldives... very very different countries in many aspects and of course it also depends on what decisions politicians take...

However compare Sweden to Norway, Denmark and Finland and Sweden looks like a covidapocalipse.

On the other hand if you compare Ireland to the UK then you can clearly see how we're doing much better. However population density is astronomical in the UK and low in Ireland. So while it is the most approachable direct comparison in this case it's still very flawed.

Ad to that Ireland being an Island which means way less chances of cross boarder infection like it happens in mainland Europe where the virus "hapilly" danced from country to country back in March and only there was the suspension of the Schengen agreement this spread stop. But by then everyone was dealing with outbreaks in their own countries...

Very true. When the comparison is made with the other Nordic countries the disparity in deaths from Covid-19 is many times greater.
Attempts have been made here to explain the disparity between Ireland and Sweden based on the numbers over 65 years of age who passed in both countries.
While that theory may stand up to scrutiny when comparing Ireland and Sweden, it falls flat when applied to Sweden and any of its other Nordic neighbours

Vieira82

charlie14 wrote: »

Very true. When the comparison is made with the other Nordic countries the disparity in deaths from Covid-19 is many times greater.
Attempts have been made here to explain the disparity between Ireland and Sweden based on the numbers over 65 years of age who passed in both countries.
While that theory may stand up to scrutiny when comparing Ireland and Sweden, it falls flat when applied to Sweden and any of its other Nordic neighbours

also something Ic forgot to mention it's also heavily cultural. Nordics are way more distant than the Irish or Southern Europeans. Literally there's people joking around online on how Nordic Countries have been doing social distancing for ages because it's true, look at how Fins queue on the bus, try and greet a Swede or Norwegian, there is a natural lack of physical contact between individuals, they don't kiss, hug each other and any scene you'd see normally in an Irish pub is completely alien to Nordics.

This of course helps explain the few cases in Nordic Countries and makes Swedish cases even more alarming.

dubrov

Lads, can you give the argument over percentages a rest? Neither of you are wrong.

cnocbui

Vieira82 wrote: »

also something Ic forgot to mention it's also heavily cultural. Nordics are way more distant than the Irish or Southern Europeans. Literally there's people joking around online on how Nordic Countries have been doing social distancing for ages because it's true, look at how Fins queue on the bus, try and greet a Swede or Norwegian, there is a natural lack of physical contact between individuals, they don't kiss, hug each other and any scene you'd see normally in an Irish pub is completely alien to Nordics.

This of course helps explain the few cases in Nordic Countries and makes Swedish cases even more alarming.

Is that so?

Oliver Gee simply can't come to grips with Swedes and their fascination with hugging. And he's not alone.
In France, they kiss you on the cheek. In Maori tribes of New Zealand, they nuzzle noses. And in Sweden, they hug. A lot.

https://www.thelocal.se/20140325/i-cant-embrace-swedes-obsession-with-the-hug

321123

Vieira82 wrote: »

also something Ic forgot to mention it's also heavily cultural. Nordics are way more distant than the Irish or Southern Europeans. Literally there's people joking around online on how Nordic Countries have been doing social distancing for ages because it's true, look at how Fins queue on the bus, try and greet a Swede or Norwegian, there is a natural lack of physical contact between individuals, they don't kiss, hug each other and any scene you'd see normally in an Irish pub is completely alien to Nordics.

This of course helps explain the few cases in Nordic Countries and makes Swedish cases even more alarming.

I'm Irish living in Stockholm. You're having an absolute laugh! Jesus ****in Christ how I laughed.

People hug eachother here, people go out and party, sometime really hard, people talk to eachother in daily life as much as Irish people. I know my apartment block neighbors by name after 6 months here, didn't even talk to them in Dublin... How many people in Dublin strike up conversation on the LUAS or DART on the way to work?

People are not as much for random banter/small talk and nice greeting phrases as the Irish, bit less chivalry too and a bit harder to make loose friendships. But the difference isn't as big as you are making it, far from.

A big difference however is that sharing accomodation with someone that isn't family or boyfriend/girlfriend is uncommon and strange. Ask a Swede that lives by him/herself in a 2 bed apartment about renting out a room and they will wonder what drugs you're taking. Most working professionals would live in an apartment by themselves. The idea of having their own apartment is as strong for a Swedish 20-year old as for an Irish person to have a house with a little garden.

Vieira82

cnocbui wrote: »

Is that so?

https://www.thelocal.se/20140325/i-cant-embrace-swedes-obsession-with-the-hug

right trying to prove yourself right with a stock image of a swimming event... that's really gonna make you look absolutely correct

Now here's a more realistic photo dated to three years ago:



From Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/5blfam/finnish_bus_queue_personal_space_is_important/

Vieira82

cnocbui wrote: »

Is that so?

https://www.thelocal.se/20140325/i-cant-embrace-swedes-obsession-with-the-hug

Also from your same source: https://www.thelocal.se/20130702/48816

Vieira82

321123 wrote: »

I'm Irish living in Stockholm. You're having an absolute laugh! Jesus ****in Christ how I laughed.

People hug eachother here, people go out and party, sometime really hard, people talk to eachother in daily life as much as Irish people. I know my apartment block neighbors by name after 6 months here, didn't even talk to them in Dublin... How many people in Dublin strike up conversation on the LUAS or DART on the way to work?

People are not as much for random banter/small talk and nice greeting phrases as the Irish, bit less chivalry too and a bit harder to make loose friendships. But the difference isn't as big as you are making it, far from.

A big difference however is that sharing accomodation with someone that isn't family or boyfriend/girlfriend is uncommon and strange. Ask a Swede that lives by him/herself in a 2 bed apartment about renting out a room and they will wonder what drugs you're taking. Most working professionals would live in an apartment by themselves. The idea of having their own apartment is as strong for a Swedish 20-year old as for an Irish person to have a house with a little garden.

Got friends living in Oslo, Norway, they lived in Bergen for five years, total in Norway for 10 years now. One of my best friends in Ireland is Swedish from Stockholm and another of my friends is Finnish married to a Brazilian living in São Paulo now. Hey but I guess I'll change my mind and take your word for it

321123

Vieira82 wrote: »

Got friends living in Oslo, Norway, they lived in Bergen for five years, total in Norway for 10 years now. One of my best friends in Ireland is Swedish from Stockholm and another of my friends is Finnish married to a Brazilian living in São Paulo now. Hey but I guess I'll change my mind and take your word for it

And you live in Stockholm I assume? You have your second hand information (which for sure has accuracy) and I live in Sweden.

There is a difference between Nordic people and the Irish, but far from as large as you are trying to make it.

charlie14

dubrov wrote: »

Lads, can you give the argument over percentages a rest? Neither of you are wrong.

My point had little to do with percentages

More the posters usual antics to avoid uncomfortable truths attempting to downplay the reality of the difference in the numbers of lives lost.

Bit cynical

charlie14 wrote: »

That indeed may be so, but does it not negate the theories that based on the numbers of infections in a particular area, (or indeed country), that because of the numbers infected, an exponential number of others have also been infected and thus the total number has reached or exceeded what is required to provide so called herd immunity.

Well I don't think anyone has claimed herd immunity as such, however if a section of a population isolates themselves then you might get partial immunity in the non-isolating section, causing fall in infections in that section after an initial rise. Then, when the isolating section emerges from isolation, the formerly isolating group pick up the infection and the pattern repeats but with this smaller group.

Ginger n Lemon

321123 wrote: »

I'm Irish living in Stockholm. You're having an absolute laugh! Jesus ****in Christ how I laughed.

People hug eachother here, people go out and party, sometime really hard, people talk to eachother in daily life as much as Irish people. I know my apartment block neighbors by name after 6 months here, didn't even talk to them in Dublin... How many people in Dublin strike up conversation on the LUAS or DART on the way to work?

People are not as much for random banter/small talk and nice greeting phrases as the Irish, bit less chivalry too and a bit harder to make loose friendships. But the difference isn't as big as you are making it, far from.

A big difference however is that sharing accomodation with someone that isn't family or boyfriend/girlfriend is uncommon and strange. Ask a Swede that lives by him/herself in a 2 bed apartment about renting out a room and they will wonder what drugs you're taking. Most working professionals would live in an apartment by themselves. The idea of having their own apartment is as strong for a Swedish 20-year old as for an Irish person to have a house with a little garden.

That point is the last straw Swedish strategy critics are hanging on to. They try to make Irish out to be this bunch of imbeciles that can't follow guidelines and if given freedom would go and lick every door handle.

While Swedes are portrayed as these law abiding citizens, with high IQ, with 3 legs and 5 arms who are completely different to the Irish.

Its laughable.

321123

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

That point is the last straw Swedish strategy critics are hanging on to. They try to make Irish out to be this bunch of imbeciles that can't follow guidelines and if given freedom would go and lick every door handle.

While Swedes are portrayed as these law abiding citizens, with high IQ, with 3 legs and 5 arms who are completely different to the Irish.

Its laughable.

Completely agree.

SeaBreezes

the incredible pudding wrote: »

Her stats are nonsense, or rather her interpretation of them are. It's very easy to draw nonsense from stats. We had courses in Psychology where you're taught the dangers and pitfalls of this.

She's stating that every death that had paliative care involved was a death from Covid whether or not it was marked as such (and there are some there). She has absolutely no basis for this.
If you actually look at the stats using her own very source, there were more deaths the previous year where paliative care took place than this year. (4335 vs 4154). Does this mean that the years before (that actually had more deaths with Paliative care associated involved) were covered up too? Is this part of the secret deliberate 'Senicide' you keep spouting on about?
It's chem-trails in the sky are brainwashing your children levels of b**l**** that's frankly obscene and distasteful.

When you attack the poster, you've lost the argument.
And the years not over yet.

I too, find the stats obscene and distasteful.

Ginger n Lemon

321123 wrote: »

Completely agree.

BTW very jealous of you.

Here we have lost all sense. We still have queues to every shop, even though masks are mandatory.

We have people driving alone in a car wearing a mask.

We have daily News sessions where health experts blame the public of how dumb and useless we all are.

And last but not least, govt shuts businesses down giving 0 notice. Like literally - ordered restaurants to shut down overnight even though those poor fkers bought food for weekend service... while announcing they have no idea where covid is transmitted.

Help.

SeaBreezes

321123 wrote: »

Completely agree.

Just curious how your partners grandparents are getting on? What is life like for them at the moment? Same as normal?

cnocbui

I had to pop along to a local Aldi this afternoon for something. Just outside there was a large throng of local HS students having a feed. None had masks, of course, and the social distancing was about 20cm. Great to see. We are all Swedish.

the incredible pudding

SeaBreezes wrote: »

When you attack the poster, you've lost the argument.
And the years not over yet.

I too, find the stats obscene and distasteful.

I attacked her usage of the stats which have no basis. I have no strong opinion on the woman other than she has a very clear agenda. You have done nothing to argue in the contrary. I have little time for this kind of xenophobia.

The timespans she was using were from October 2019 - October 2020 so all inclusive for a year including Corona time so "the year's not over yet" doesn't fly here I'm afraid as the numbers from the previous year October 2018 - October 2019 were in fact higher. If you're going to use statistics to back up an argument you might want to do a little homework and fact check rather than taking on wholescale a snapshot that fits your narrative - Otherwise it's just lies damned lies and statistics.

Vieira82

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

That point is the last straw Swedish strategy critics are hanging on to. They try to make Irish out to be this bunch of imbeciles that can't follow guidelines and if given freedom would go and lick every door handle.

While Swedes are portrayed as these law abiding citizens, with high IQ, with 3 legs and 5 arms who are completely different to the Irish.

Its laughable.

huh absolutely no! That's is not the case at all. Just that there are differences between Swedish and Irish. Look dude, I'm Portuguese living in Ireland for a decade now. always used the bus and when I moved to Ireland I got a bit shocked to see that the person in the bus stop with me was having a conversation with me, not small talk actual conversation. Happened with different people multiple times and no we don't do this in Portugal. Same for something so nice as say hi to the bus driver. We simply do not do this in Portugal. Still remember Jonh the retired truck driver that knew all the roads around Ireland and used to take the bus to go for a pint at his favorite pub. Or Mary that was taking the bus after coming from mass.

Same thing there's differences between Irish and Swedes and IT IS NOT that Irish are a bunch of dumbasses and Swedish are these law abiding citizens, is just that physical contact is perceived different from one country to the other.

Actually the Irish of the three cultures mentioned are the friendliest obviously and it is great to see how social interactions occur to the Irish naturally, be it in a Dublin pub or a remote shop in Alihies. There's always time for a good chat and is normal to have such chats. You could go on about any subject and always end in a smile

Try that in Portugal you will have a ten hour long moan about how bad the country is with added extreme gesticulations and a passionate theatrical performance! I normally joke about how can you know the economy is better in Portugal you just have to walk into a shop and ask the shopkeeper how things are. During the economic crash he'll reply "YOU DON'T EVEN ASK ME! EVERYTHING IS BAD! i BARELY HAVE MONEY TO SCRATCH MY ASS! TODAY? TODAY I MADE ONE SALE. THIS COUNTRY IS GOING DOWN THE DRAIN! SHOULD SELL THIS TO THE SPANISH!!!" And ends by spitting in the ground.

Now ask him when the economy is better and he'll go "ah yes, times are bad indeed. There's no sales like it used to be. My kids have no future. Spain is taking everything from us. We're doomed. But it's fine. He says all of this while not taking the eyes off the newspaper his reading.

Try that in Sweden they'll look at you awkwardly and wonder "why is this person talking to me" Small talk is very rare in Nordic countries. Heck a few years ago my friend from Oslo came to visit in Portugal with two Norwegian friends, it was incredible how they could not understand small talk or looked with discomfort any questions about Norway. It genuinely felt I was offending him by trying to engage in small talk.

Is it really that hard to understand that different countries do have different social behaviors that lead to different social interactions?

And on that topic, if everyone thought Sweden was law abiding then damn... their numbers don't look good at all for such law abiding people! In such cases the number prove the exact opposite in that case how they are not law abiding citizens at all! And on that same topic, the Irish are actively giving them a lesson of citizenship!

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

That point is the last straw Swedish strategy critics are hanging on to. They try to make Irish out to be this bunch of imbeciles that can't follow guidelines and if given freedom would go and lick every door handle.

While Swedes are portrayed as these law abiding citizens, with high IQ, with 3 legs and 5 arms who are completely different to the Irish.

Its laughable.

Now now, that is hardly the last straw critics of Swedish strategy have.

On the imbeciles.
That would have been unlikely to have happened in Galway a few days ago with that crowd at the Spanish Arch.
Not a lot of door handles around there.


With the Shop Street crowd and those attending the numerous house parties the Garda broke up, I would not bet against it.

tobefrank321

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JoannaTeglund/status/1311723594230235138?s=19

She sounds like an absolute loon. Not sure why you feel the need to keep posting her tweets as if it adds anything factual to this.

She implied Sweden was the only country in the world that used assisted dying for elderly covid 19. That's false.

She quotes the died of covid figure for the US and then died of covid 19 and with covid 19 in Sweden and comes up with a higher figure for Sweden than the US. She didn't compare like with like.

She's just posting bogus stats at this stage.

Real Donald Trump

tobefrank321 wrote: »

She sounds like an absolute loon. Not sure why you feel the need to keep posting her tweets as if it adds anything factual to this.

She implied Sweden was the only country in the world that used assisted dying for elderly covid 19. That's false.

She quotes the died of covid figure for the US and then died of covid 19 and with covid 19 in Sweden and comes up with a higher figure for Sweden than the US. She didn't compare like with like.

She's just posting bogus stats at this stage.

Proper loon indeed, she's probably getting her information from Rte :pac: