Sweden avoiding lockdown

Bit cynical

Daily deaths flat at negligible levels for last two months in Sweden without any significant restrictions. Bars open, no travel restrictions, no masks etc. Don't know where people are getting the idea that the situation is dire in that country.

Diarmuid

charlie14 wrote: »

Who can tell anymore with Sweden and figures.
.

Ah yeah. When reality doesn't match your worldview., it's reality that's wrong, not you.

topper75

23 are + in the Swedish ICUs.
24 are + in Ireland right now.

We have only HALF their population.

Is there anything to be said for another lockdown and getting every Irish person to stay at home Father?

SeaBreezes

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Charlie this 1 is for you

Particular parts at 12:40 and 13:19.

Charlie when will we have that? Also, what are your thoughts about Swedish average weekly covid deaths number at 3 for the past 6 weeks? Pretty good?

Ivor Cummins the nutritionist? 🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣


Dr Dominic Pimenta fact checks all Ivors pseudoscience again and again. Ivors running scared, refuses to debate with him despite repeated offers. Ivor is all about making money.. not so hot on facts.

One of the fact checks is below for anyone interested.


https://twitter.com/DrDomPimenta/status/1306950058391281665?s=20

charlie14

Diarmuid wrote: »

Ah yeah. When reality doesn't match your worldview., it's reality that's wrong, not you.

Well Gunga Din if you are able to access and make any sense of daily up to date Swedish numbers for new cases and deaths from Covid-19, then your a better man than me on that front.

Easily enough to know, (and I would greatly appreciate the info), so perhaps you would be good enough to post these figures on a daily basis.

charlie14

topper75 wrote: »

23 are + in the Swedish ICUs.
24 are + in Ireland right now.

We have only HALF their population.

Is there anything to be said for another lockdown and getting every Irish person to stay at home Father?

Ireland 1,811 deaths, Sweden 5,883 deaths with only TWICE the population perhaps ?

charlie14

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Ivor Cummins the nutritionist? ����������


Dr Dominic Pimenta fact checks all Ivors pseudoscience again and again. Ivors running scared, refuses to debate with him despite repeated offers. Ivor is all about making money.. not so hot on facts.

One of the fact checks is below for anyone interested.


https://twitter.com/DrDomPimenta/status/1306950058391281665?s=20

So that is what that posters latest "great reveal" was.
Tbh after listening to his Giesecke, Trump and other dodgy facts clips I took a look at the length of his latest and figured life was to short to waste it on what was highly likely to be just more of the same dross.

321123

charlie14 wrote: »

Well Gunga Din if you are able to access and make any sense of daily up to date Swedish numbers for new cases and deaths from Covid-19, then your a better man than me on that front.

Easily enough to know, (and I would greatly appreciate the info), so perhaps you would be good enough to post these figures on a daily basis.

https://covidstatistik.se/

There you go, it is updated 14:01 (GMT+1) Tuesday-Friday and contains all the Swedish data. You can break out deaths, cases, tests, ICU and excess mortality by reporting day, week, day of death, week of death etc.

Interesting to see that when Worldometer (which is no official body, just a private hobby site) is wrong then Sweden must be fudging/hiding the numbers. Check the official sources instead, the reporting is there and very good.

topper75

charlie14 wrote: »

Ireland 1,811 deaths, Sweden 5,883 deaths with only TWICE the population perhaps ?

Doesn't explain what I posted though.

If lockdowns worked, then those ICU numbers I posted would simply not be possible.

cnocbui

321123 wrote: »

https://covidstatistik.se/

There you go, it is updated 14:01 (GMT+1) Tuesday-Friday and contains all the Swedish data. You can break out deaths, cases, tests, ICU and excess mortality by reporting day, week, day of death, week of death etc.

Interesting to see that when Worldometer (which is no official body, just a private hobby site) is wrong then Sweden must be fudging/hiding the numbers. Check the official sources instead, the reporting is there and very good.

He's been pointed at official figures, and where they are reported, several times, but prefers to keep going on about world meters not being arsed to get the data themselves as some proof that Sweden is up to no good, which seems to be his entire raison d'être.

charlie14

321123 wrote: »

https://covidstatistik.se/

There you go, it is updated 14:01 (GMT+1) Tuesday-Friday and contains all the Swedish data. You can break out deaths, cases, tests, ICU and excess mortality by reporting day, week, day of death, week of death etc.

Interesting to see that when Worldometer (which is no official body, just a private hobby site) is wrong then Sweden must be fudging/hiding the numbers. Check the official sources instead, the reporting is there and very good.

Thanks for that. I have been asking and looking for something like this for a long time. Still not sure on those 12 deaths that were taken off.
Is the mention in The Local.se correct that if someone does not pass within 30 days of being confirmed as Covid-19 positive then the death is not attributed to Covid-19 do you know ?


I do not know why Worldometers have more or less given up on posting Sweden`s numbers, but if it is just a hobby site then from what I at least have seen of it, it seems pretty thorough and accurate in regard to other countries. Especially European

thebaz

charlie14 wrote: »

Ireland 1,811 deaths, Sweden 5,883 deaths with only TWICE the population perhaps ?

Given the Swedish strategy , I think most would have expected even greater number of deaths in Sweden , thankfully this did not happen.

321123

charlie14 wrote: »

Thanks for that. I have been asking and looking for something like this for a long time. Still not sure on those 12 deaths that were taken off.
Is the mention in The Local.se correct that if someone does not pass within 30 days of being confirmed as Covid-19 positive then the death is not attributed to Covid-19 do you know ?


I do not know why Worldometers have more or less given up on posting Sweden`s numbers, but if it is just a hobby site then from what I at least have seen of it, it seems pretty thorough and accurate in regard to other countries. Especially European

The removed deaths was due to some historical reporting issues in Kronoberg County. Apparently they had double reported some deaths before which was found out and fixed. The actual death rate reported yesterday was 3 new deaths since Friday.

I think it is 30 days after positive test or if the doctor assesses it to be Covid (so if you test positive, go into ICU and then die there after 40 days it is still Covid) but not entirely sure. The 30 day rule is to make sure that people dying in nursing homes or at home also are included.

Worldometer has a system that reads from a variety of official sources. However since Sweden reports deaths for the day prior (today they will report the deaths and cases reported in to them yesterday) Worldometer doesn't know what to do since Worldometer is programmed to add today's cases to today (while Sweden today reports yesterday's figures). So the death number, cases and critical (which is ICU) will be correct on Worldometer, however the plus part in red (i.e today's change) is wrong and Worldometer therefore just populates it with 5 for some reason.

biko

Not sure why people keep comparing Sweden to Ireland, but not to Portugal or Greece that have the same population as Sweden.

Greece 420 dead
Portugal 2,032 dead, neighbour to Spain with an enormous 32,486 dead
Sweden 5,883 dead

charlie14

topper75 wrote: »

Doesn't explain what I posted though.

If lockdowns worked, then those ICU numbers I posted would simply not be possible.

Those ICU numbers are really only due to a rise in infections over the last 10-14 days.
If lockdown is such a failure in preventing deaths than how do you explain the disparity between Sweden and not just Ireland but especially between Sweden and its Scandinavian neighbours who all used it ?

dubrov

biko wrote:

Not sure why people keep comparing Sweden to Ireland, but not to Portugal or Greece that have the same population as Sweden.

biko wrote:

Greece 420 dead Portugal 2,032 dead, neighbour to Spain with an enormous 32,486 dead Sweden 5,883 dead

When you look around Europe there appears to be little correlation between death rate and severity of lockdown imposed.

Seweryn

321123 wrote: »

https://covidstatistik.se/

There you go, it is updated 14:01 (GMT+1) Tuesday-Friday and contains all the Swedish data. You can break out deaths, cases, tests, ICU and excess mortality by reporting day, week, day of death, week of death etc.

Where is the increase in deaths per million for 2020 shown in comparison with the last 3 or 5 years average for the months in question? Without that simple analysis we don't even know if there is any increase in deaths. And the death causes are very easy to manipulate and very difficult to question.

thebaz

biko wrote: »

Not sure why people keep comparing Sweden to Ireland, but not to Portugal or Greece that have the same population as Sweden.

Because the vast majority of us are living in Ireland - doubt people in Portugal are comparing ther strategy to the Irish one.

charlie14

dubrov wrote: »

When you look around Europe there appears to be little correlation between death rate and severity of lockdown imposed.

If you look at the Scandinavian countries there is on lockdown and no lockdown.
The case was made here that the disparity in deaths due to Covid-19 was due to the greater percentage of those aged 65 and over in Sweden as opposed to Ireland, but even that when applied to the other Scandinavian countries does not stand up.

dubrov

charlie14 wrote: »

If you look at the Scandinavian countries there is on lockdown and no lockdown.
The case was made here that the disparity in deaths due to Covid-19 was due to the greater percentage of those aged 65 and over in Sweden as opposed to Ireland, but even that when applied to the other Scandinavian countries does not stand up.

That is just one case. When you look at Europe as a whole the picture is quite different.

KindOfIrish

biko wrote: »

Not sure why people keep comparing Sweden to Ireland, but not to Portugal or Greece that have the same population as Sweden.

Greece 420 dead
Portugal 2,032 dead, neighbour to Spain with an enormous 32,486 dead
Sweden 5,883 dead

May I suggest that we speak about deaths for 2020 in year 2022? Present statistics are totally useless.

Att vara en hest

Almost every death in Sweden is for people 80+ years of age... Yes, the number is higher than other countries but it's simply due to COVID spreading in to elderly / nursing homes.

In my experience most elder Swedes live in their own homes, they'll only go to a nursing home if they are very sick already. In the GENERAL POPULATION, the amount of deaths in Sweden is same or similar as most other European countries despite no 'full lockdown'. In fact, nursing homes did get a "proper" lockdown early in Sweden and it still managed to sneak its way in there.

A clear "under mortality" was reported for July compared to other years since many of the people who wouldn't have made it through the summer passed away early.

biko

KindOfIrish wrote: »

May I suggest that we speak about deaths for 2020 in year 2022? Present statistics are totally useless.

This is pretty much Sweden's attitude too.

cnocbui

biko wrote: »

This is pretty much Sweden's attitude too.

And once again, they are right.

The CDC has once again affirmed SARS-2 is subject to airborne transmission. The virus is just going to do it's thing and lockdowns can only delay the inevitable, not prevent it. The choices are cause lots and lots of deaths from the non-SARS-2 health and mental issues caused by lockdowns or have a lower mortality rate from SARS-2 and carry on with life.

charlie14

dubrov wrote: »

That is just one case. When you look at Europe as a whole the picture is quite different.

Not really.

Of the 44 countries in Europe, Sweden is the 5th highest per capita for deaths due to Covid-19.

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

And once again, they are right.

The CDC has once again affirmed SARS-2 is subject to airborne transmission. The virus is just going to do it's thing and lockdowns can only delay the inevitable, not prevent it. The choices are cause lots and lots of deaths from the non-SARS-2 health and mental issues caused by lockdowns or have a lower mortality rate from SARS-2 and carry on with life.

With it being again affirmed as being airborne transmitted is that not a point that argues in favour of face masks ?
Also in regard to lockdown, could the same not be said about Ebola virus, and does your argument not totally ignore the getting stronger by the day possibility of vaccines ?
With all this non Covid-19 health and mental issue some seem to be totally ignoring the ever increasing evidence, of not just short to medium term health issue with catching this virus, but also the long-term implications

kippy

cnocbui wrote: »

And once again, they are right.

The CDC has once again affirmed SARS-2 is subject to airborne transmission. The virus is just going to do it's thing and lockdowns can only delay the inevitable, not prevent it. The choices are cause lots and lots of deaths from the non-SARS-2 health and mental issues caused by lockdowns or have a lower mortality rate from SARS-2 and carry on with life.

For the umpteenth time. The Swedes have restrictions in place. They also have a totally different demographic and health service.
Letting the virus do its thing will mean life cannot carry on.
At the very best the virus needs to be managed in its spread and restrictions are a part of this.
Delaying the virus allows time for a vaccine and/or not overwhelming the health service.

dubrov

charlie14 wrote: »

Not really.

Of the 44 countries in Europe, Sweden is the 5th highest per capita for deaths due to Covid-19.

Sweden's death rate is still below the Belgium, UK, Italy and Spain all of which had much stricter lockdowns.
Compare death rate against strictness of lockdown and there is very little relationship.

Of course, the death rate stats are recorded differently in each country so maybe it is a waste of time trying to compare at all.

humberklog

KindOfIrish wrote: »

May I suggest that we speak about deaths for 2020 in year 2022? Present statistics are totally useless.

So you're suggesting there's no conversation on Sweden's Covid death rates on a live chat board in a thread about Sweden's handling of the situation until 2022?

charlie14

dubrov wrote: »

Sweden's death rate is still below the Belgium, UK, Italy and Spain all of which had much stricter lockdowns.
Compare death rate against strictness of lockdown and there is very little relationship.

Of course, the death rate stats are recorded differently in each country so maybe it is a waste of time trying to compare at all.

I wouldn`t look at 5th out of 44 where 43 used lockdown a great positive for no lockdown. Even more-so when you consider at least 3 of the other 4 countries with a higher figures than Sweden.
Belgium is generally accepted as having over-counted, the UK played around with the Swedish approach for too long before imposing lockdown and Italy`s was originally an example of how not to do it.