Sweden avoiding lockdown

thebaz

greyday wrote: »

personally I fear the Swedes may have become so complacent about the virus now that they may be in for more suffering than necessary.

People having being saying this since March, including me , but the fatalities from Covid since May have been a lot lower than many predicted , me included - The fatalities like in Ireland were high early days , cause virus got into Nursing homes , they admit this fault.
Perhaps some form of herd immunity is occuring , but the people seam much happier than the never-ending doom in ireland , that has created a division in society here , between extremists , people who want more lockdowns indefinityly , and those that are anti-lockdown - Ireland seams a really horrible place right now.

Scoondal

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

No matter what approach Sweden takes in the future, I will be glad that I am here in Sweden. I have been since day one of the virus. I personally, have still not met one single person who does not think as I do. People can link all they want to people on twitter who are anti the Swedish approach. I can’t find a single person who is not grateful that they are here. Old, young or with underlying conditions. Not one.
I know several people who currently have covid. I spoke to two of them today. They and their families are isolating at home. As with everyone else I know who has had covid, they blame no one.
This thread is meaningless. It has become a bickering theater for the few.

In the last few months, I have been told "things" whenever I mentioned Sweden regarding Covid19. It is good to hear the views of someone that is actually living in Sweden during this virus.

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

Oh really. Sanctimonious drivel.

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/continued-lockdown-may-cause-29-times-more-deaths-than-it-aims-to-prevent/ar-BB13GT5B



https://www.tctmd.com/news/mystery-missing-stemis-during-covid-19-pandemic

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/these-2-things-are-killing-more-young-people-than-covid-cdc-director-says/ar-BB17iype

https://7news.com.au/sunrise/on-the-show/hundreds-of-melbourne-doctors-call-for-immediate-end-to-harmful-lockdown-c-1379531

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-14/cancer-tests-operations-drop-up-to-50-per-cent-april-coronavirus/12622396

You are a one trick pony, Charlie; there is only one dismal song in your hymn book - the rest of pages are blank. Your posts comprise about 20% of all the posts in this thread and they are all just incredibly boring variations on the same theme 'Sweden bad, lockdown good' You have incurable tunnel vision, and are a seemingly endless stuck record, stuck record, stuck record...

There are potentialy more deaths at stake from other causes than would occur from SARS-2. Lockdown is an inappropriate response at this point. We now know it's a failed model and it's clear to all but the blind that the way forward should be issolation of the vulnerable, not isolation of everyone.

I know you are pissed off with Sweden now using lockdown, so I`ll ignore the jibes as understandable in the circumstances.


Did you look at that video that was posted here lately made by that right wing Argentinian nut job.
Did you notice anything about it ?
Did you hear what the one elderly lady she was able to find had to say ?
The vulnerable are isolated alright. They do not even have a time to shop separate from others in a country were wearing masks is discouraged.


You appear to be an expert on the subject so perhaps you can tel me what is the Swedish strategy to de-isolate all the vulnerable from the rest of society or is it intended to last forever ?

greyday

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

No matter what approach Sweden takes in the future, I will be glad that I am here in Sweden. I have been since day one of the virus. I personally, have still not met one single person who does not think as I do. People can link all they want to people on twitter who are anti the Swedish approach. I can’t find a single person who is not grateful that they are here. Old, young or with underlying conditions. Not one.
I know several people who currently have covid. I spoke to two of them today. They and their families are isolating at home. As with everyone else I know who has had covid, they blame no one.
This thread is meaningless. It has become a bickering theater for the few.

There are nearly 6000 who may disagree with you.

greyday

thebaz wrote: »

People having being saying this since March, including me , but the fatalities from Covid since May have been a lot lower than many predicted , me included - The fatalities like in Ireland were high early days , cause virus got into Nursing homes , they admit this fault.
Perhaps some form of herd immunity is occuring , but the people seam much happier than the never-ending doom in ireland , that has created a division in society here , between extremists , people who want more lockdowns indefinityly , and those that are anti-lockdown - Ireland seams a really horrible place right now.

The more it runs rampant in society the greater chance it gets into nursing homes, we would have no lockdowns if the risk to the vulnerable was not so great.

ILoveYourVibes

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

No matter what approach Sweden takes in the future, I will be glad that I am here in Sweden. I have been since day one of the virus. I personally, have still not met one single person who does not think as I do. People can link all they want to people on twitter who are anti the Swedish approach. I can’t find a single person who is not grateful that they are here. Old, young or with underlying conditions. Not one.
I know several people who currently have covid. I spoke to two of them today. They and their families are isolating at home. As with everyone else I know who has had covid, they blame no one.
This thread is meaningless. It has become a bickering theater for the few.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sweden-to-start-lockdowns-worlds-22864690

Im not sure how accurate it is. But it might be you are going into lockdown too.

It is the mirror though.

Spiderman0081

greyday wrote: »

There are nearly 6000 who may disagree with you.

If those 6000 were half as bitter as so many Irish have become, you may be right.

Vieira82

I'll just add what I mentioned a couple of posts before and was "brilliantly" told I wasn't addressing the issue. So here it goes again. Sweden cases are currently one week, one week and a half behind Ireland, we're literally seeing in Sweden the show we saw two weeks ago with NPHET first recommendation to level 5. This is Sweden practically going our level 3. Let's see if in a two weeks, or maybe less than that they ramp up to something similar to out level 5 or if they do get the best of it...

But.. as one can see cases are going up there, like it has been all across Europe and that means the herd immunity so many here defend failed that's over 5k people dead for nothing when similar countries even with same population that lockdown (Portugal for ex) have less dead and not even comparing with their geographic and cultural counterparts which then it's abysmal the difference...

It's quite astonishing that 5k people dead of this, literally, for nothing, is seen here as something so trivial, acceptable and even mockable... impressive really how some ppl really lost any touch with reality or any kind of humanity because of the "me, me, me" mentality...

Spiderman0081

Vieira82 wrote: »

I'll just add what I mentioned a couple of posts before and was "brilliantly" told I wasn't addressing the issue. So here it goes again. Sweden cases are currently one week, one week and a half behind Ireland, we're literally seeing in Sweden the show we saw two weeks ago with NPHET first recommendation to level 5. This is Sweden practically going our level 3. Let's see if in a two weeks, or maybe less than that they ramp up to something similar to out level 5 or if they do get the best of it...

But.. as one can see cases are going up there, like it has been all across Europe and that means the herd immunity so many here defend failed that's over 5k people dead for nothing when similar countries even with same population that lockdown (Portugal for ex) have less dead and not even comparing with their geographic and cultural counterparts which then it's abysmal the difference...

It's quite astonishing that 5k people dead of this, literally, for nothing, is seen here as something so trivial, acceptable and even mockable... impressive really how some ppl really lost any touch with reality or any kind of humanity because of the "me, me, me" mentality...

This is the perfect uneducated post to now end this thread.
Unfollow, click

Spiderman0081

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

No matter what approach Sweden takes in the future, I will be glad that I am here in Sweden. I have been since day one of the virus. I personally, have still not met one single person who does not think as I do. People can link all they want to people on twitter who are anti the Swedish approach. I can’t find a single person who is not grateful that they are here. Old, young or with underlying conditions. Not one.
I know several people who currently have covid. I spoke to two of them today. They and their families are isolating at home. As with everyone else I know who has had covid, they blame no one.
This thread is meaningless. It has become a bickering theater for the few.

You seem to know a lot of people who have covid. Doesn’t sound like a place that I’d like me or my family to be

Joe_ Public

cnocbui wrote: »

Oh really. Sanctimonious drivel.

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/continued-lockdown-may-cause-29-times-more-deaths-than-it-aims-to-prevent/ar-BB13GT5B



https://www.tctmd.com/news/mystery-missing-stemis-during-covid-19-pandemic

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/these-2-things-are-killing-more-young-people-than-covid-cdc-director-says/ar-BB17iype

https://7news.com.au/sunrise/on-the-show/hundreds-of-melbourne-doctors-call-for-immediate-end-to-harmful-lockdown-c-1379531

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-14/cancer-tests-operations-drop-up-to-50-per-cent-april-coronavirus/12622396

You are a one trick pony, Charlie; there is only one dismal song in your hymn book - the rest of pages are blank. Your posts comprise about 20% of all the posts in this thread and they are all just incredibly boring variations on the same theme 'Sweden bad, lockdown good' You have incurable tunnel vision, and are a seemingly endless stuck record, stuck record, stuck record...

There are potentialy more deaths at stake from other causes than would occur from SARS-2. Lockdown is an inappropriate response at this point. We now know it's a failed model and it's clear to all but the blind that the way forward should be issolation of the vulnerable, not isolation of everyone.

Whatever the merits or demerits of lockdowns, i find a lot of the stuff written in those articles quite questionable.

The doctor talking about "far more" people dying of suicide than covid might be applicable over a few weeks when transmission of the virus was low, but it's not applicable now and certainly not applicable overall.

And lockdowns do not cause treatments to decrease or deaths from other illnesses to increase, it is the rapid spread of the virus that achieves that. So of course treatments of other illnesses declined during the first lockdown, because that was the point - late march/april - when hospitals were closest to breaking point. And of course treatments had picked up again by June because transmission of the virus was checked and hospitals were under much less pressure - courtesy of the lockdown.

That's not to say mental health isn't a serious topic or that illnesses not being treated is acceptable, just i don't think what is being stated there is entirely accurate.

tobefrank321

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Still at 1 a day? Damn.

I've a feeling it will rise. Ours was at 1 or 2 a day up to this week.

99nsr125

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Whatever the merits or demerits of lockdowns, i find a lot of the stuff written in those articles quite questionable.

The doctor talking about "far more" people dying of suicide than covid might be applicable over a few weeks when transmission of the virus was low, but it's not applicable now and certainly not applicable overall.

And lockdowns do not cause treatments to decrease or deaths from other illnesses to increase, it is the rapid spread of the virus that achieves that. So of course treatments of other illnesses declined during the first lockdown, because that was the point - late march/april - when hospitals were closest to breaking point. And of course treatments had picked up again by June because transmission of the virus was checked and hospitals were under much less pressure - courtesy of the lockdown.

That's not to say mental health isn't a serious topic or that illnesses not being treated is acceptable, just i don't think what is being stated there is entirely accurate.

It's very simple, people fail to present because of
the hysterical fear of a flu we gave a different name to

mcsean2163

Vieira82 wrote: »

I'll just add what I mentioned a couple of posts before and was "brilliantly" told I wasn't addressing the issue. So here it goes again. Sweden cases are currently one week, one week and a half behind Ireland, we're literally seeing in Sweden the show we saw two weeks ago with NPHET first recommendation to level 5. This is Sweden practically going our level 3. Let's see if in a two weeks, or maybe less than that they ramp up to something similar to out level 5 or if they do get the best of it...

But.. as one can see cases are going up there, like it has been all across Europe and that means the herd immunity so many here defend failed that's over 5k people dead for nothing when similar countries even with same population that lockdown (Portugal for ex) have less dead and not even comparing with their geographic and cultural counterparts which then it's abysmal the difference...

It's quite astonishing that 5k people dead of this, literally, for nothing, is seen here as something so trivial, acceptable and even mockable... impressive really how some ppl really lost any touch with reality or any kind of humanity because of the "me, me, me" mentality...

.. people dead of this, literally, for nothing.....

Isn't that always the way, people die. Average age of covid19 death in Ireland was 82 which is higher than life expectancy.

My daughters gymnastics is cancelled, Dublin is not like Dublin....

It seems to me that people in Sweden acknowledge that life has an expiry and the deaths weren't for nothing. Children and people in general in sweden can enjoy living while they're alive and have a proper funeral if dead.

I was in Dublin with the kids and couldn't even take them to a McDonald's as eating outside is required. After a while all the small things start to add up.

Let's not forget, there's never been a coronavirus vaccine before, fingers crossed it'll work this time and soon.

Bit cynical

Vieira82 wrote: »

I'll just add what I mentioned a couple of posts before and was "brilliantly" told I wasn't addressing the issue. So here it goes again. Sweden cases are currently one week, one week and a half behind Ireland, we're literally seeing in Sweden the show we saw two weeks ago with NPHET first recommendation to level 5. This is Sweden practically going our level 3. Let's see if in a two weeks, or maybe less than that they ramp up to something similar to out level 5 or if they do get the best of it...

I don't think the data bears out what you are saying.

It looks more the gap between Ireland and Sweden is increasing as time goes on. Go back a few weeks and Sweden was only a few days behind Ireland now it is more like three weeks as Ireland accelerates upwards.



Also I don't think restrictions in Sweden are anywhere near the equivalent of level 3 in Ireland though they still have the option of imposing such restrictions. Sweden is less restrictive than Ireland has ever been throughout the outbreak.

The problem in Ireland is that at level 5 we've run out of rope. There's nowhere to go.

Happydays2020

Bit cynical wrote: »

I don't think the data bears out what you are saying.

It looks more the gap between Ireland and Sweden is increasing as time goes on. Go back a few weeks and Sweden was only a few days behind Ireland now it is more like three weeks as Ireland accelerates upwards.



Also I don't think restrictions in Sweden are anywhere near the equivalent of level 3 in Ireland though they still have the option of imposing such restrictions. Sweden is less restrictive than Ireland has ever been throughout the outbreak.

The problem in Ireland is that at level 5 we've run out of rope. There's nowhere to go.

What happened on Sept 1 that suddenly saw things increase sharply?

gozunda

Happydays2020 wrote: »

What happened on Sept 1 that suddenly saw things increase sharply?

back to school?

dubrov

Happydays2020 wrote:

What happened on Sept 1 that suddenly saw things increase sharply?

I think you mean early August. The increase had started long before September

FintanMcluskey

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Charlie. You are 1 hell of a poster, thats for sure.

This thread has focused on Swedish covid deaths significantly all the way up to end of June, when co incidentally their deaths have floored (and remained on the floor since).

Now that their deaths are non existent you get ultra hostile and, I am not even sure the point you are trying to make - deaths are not relevant? or daily deaths should not be mentioned from neither Ireland or Sweden? If I post Sweden has 1 daily death with covid per day I am an insensitive fool?

I know you wont answer - but do you have any idea why Swedish deaths with covid are so low since June?

It is bizarre.

Can you only begin to imagine the morale in Sweden, the confidence in its citizens. Smiling at strangers on the train or in a shop. The build up to Christmas. The markets, the lights.

Ireland have obliterated the nation from an economic, morale and healthcare viewpoint and posters are talking about the “misery” about to befall Sweden.

What is this about??! Someone needs to explain it to me.

Vieira82

mcsean2163 wrote: »

.. people dead of this, literally, for nothing.....

Isn't that always the way, people die. Average age of covid19 death in Ireland was 82 which is higher than life expectancy.

My daughters gymnastics is cancelled, Dublin is not like Dublin....

It seems to me that people in Sweden acknowledge that life has an expiry and the deaths weren't for nothing. Children and people in general in sweden can enjoy living while they're alive and have a proper funeral if dead.

I was in Dublin with the kids and couldn't even take them to a McDonald's as eating outside is required. After a while all the small things start to add up.

Let's not forget, there's never been a coronavirus vaccine before, fingers crossed it'll work this time and soon.

Typical self-centered comment. Is not people always die is the fact they could AVOIDED 5k people dying. But well... let me feel so sorry for your daughter missing gymnastics class my heart goes out to you and her... and not to 5k extra people dead...

When you can... search you heart for a bit of humanity, if you still have it in you ok? thank you

Vieira82

Bit cynical wrote: »

I don't think the data bears out what you are saying.

It looks more the gap between Ireland and Sweden is increasing as time goes on. Go back a few weeks and Sweden was only a few days behind Ireland now it is more like three weeks as Ireland accelerates upwards.



Also I don't think restrictions in Sweden are anywhere near the equivalent of level 3 in Ireland though they still have the option of imposing such restrictions. Sweden is less restrictive than Ireland has ever been throughout the outbreak.

The problem in Ireland is that at level 5 we've run out of rope. There's nowhere to go.

That graphic is very good in showing where the testing in both countries changed, when they stopped actually having daily briefings in Sweden just before the beginning of September.

And the graphic shows precisely what I am stating, that Sweden is a few weeks behind, they're where Ireland was at the end of September.

They are indeed taking the right decision with this local lockdowns however we'll have to see if that really will change anything.

In any way case or form the heard immunity bs is more than debunked, if it really had worked they would not be having a second wave.

Vieira82

And on this same note, this video from two weeks ago is now hilariously innacurate...

j@utis

I want to move to Sweden

Vieira82

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ireland have obliterated the nation from an economic, morale and healthcare viewpoint and posters are talking about the “misery” about to befall Sweden.

What is this about??! Someone needs to explain it to me.

Have you actually openned the blinds of your Irish house lately and looked outside of your own little Irish bubble?

The whole world is passing through it. Even countries that had very low cases suffered economically and by consequence socially. Ireland is not the rotten egg of lockdowns there's plenty of other countries to choose from at the moment. Literally the only exception that is still banging the bucks is China and that's because the whole western world depends on China and everything from masks to respirators are made in...

*drumroll

China. So they are actually the only major economy that will grow this year. And also this news report from 11 days ago:

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/great-wall-golden-weekend-crowds-intl-hnk-scli/index.html

And also this:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54504785

So could we stop with the theatrics, the egocentrism and actually get out of our little bubbles and understand this is a global problem with consequences that will be felt for the next decades without a doubt... the sooner people get this in their heads, the quicker we'll stop bickering about Sweden and actually start thinking of how as a nation Ireland will face this...

biko

This graph from a random major hospital region in Sweden
Blue is infected patient. Green is infected staff.

https://www.regionorebrolan.se/sv/Halsa-och-vard/Corona/Lagesbilder-och-statistik/1/

Drumpot

Norway and Finland have vastly superior success at managing this virus. In Scandinavia, Sweden is nowhere near being the country that managed the virus the best. Asides from people wanting less restrictions, Why are Sweden constantly Being held up as a good option to follow? Surely Norway and Finland and even Iceland are vastly superior countries to try and emulate?

There are more factors affecting how Scandinavian countries are faring with the virus. Remember the UK trying to follow swedens approach, that didn’t work out well did it? I don’t believe it’s wise to presume that what works in Sweden will work in Ireland Without understanding why scandanavian countries have in general managed really well.

dubrov

Drumpot wrote:

Norway and Finland have vastly superior success at managing this virus. In Scandinavia, Sweden is nowhere near being the country that managed the virus the best. Asides from people wanting less restrictions, Why are Sweden constantly Being held up as a good option to follow? Surely Norway and Finland and even Iceland are vastly superior countries to try and emulate?

Sweden took a much lighter approach than other countries so definitely warrant a lot more attention.

Norway and Finland took similar, although slightly lighter approaches than ourselves with much better results.

Drumpot

dubrov wrote: »

Sweden took a much lighter approach than other countries so definitely warrant a lot more attention.

Norway and Finland took similar, although slightly lighter approaches than ourselves with much better results.

I understand the lighter approach Sweden took, but we need to understand why it’s working before suggesting we should follow it. As I’ve said numerous times Sweden have fared the worst in Scandinavia, why are they being singled out for praise when there are countries around them doing so much better?

Nobody seems to have any good information properly analyzing why Scandinavian countries are doing well. Rather then find out what are potential factors that make it work (cultural , geographical, other etc), people keep pointing at Sweden not because they are managing it well in comparison to their neighbors who were more cautious but because people want less restrictions and swedens approach is most desirable.

Vieira82

Drumpot wrote: »

I understand the lighter approach Sweden took, but we need to understand why it’s working before suggesting we should follow it. As I’ve said numerous times Sweden have fared the worst in Scandinavia, why are they being singled out for praise when there are countries around them doing so much better?

Nobody seems to have any good information properly analyzing why Scandinavian countries are doing well. Rather then find out what are potential factors that make it work (cultural , geographical, other etc), people keep pointing at Sweden not because they are managing it well in comparison to their neighbors who were more cautious but because people want less restrictions and swedens approach is most desirable.

Absolutely spot on! Well said.

dubrov

Some are saying Sweden's approach is a massive success. Some are saying it's a big failure.

In the summer, it looked good but with good vaccine candidates appearing and cases rising again, it is beginning to look bad again.

It is way too early to call either way