Sweden avoiding lockdown

coppergrass

321123 wrote: »

Just had a chat with my partner who is Swedish and listened to the press conference regarding the new recommendations for Uppsala.

Uppsala is a university town and the virus has gone from mostly just spreading among students to more the general public. So in order to stop the spread they have taken these steps.

It is a two week specific ask that people limit the social interaction to people they live with or relatives and that public transportation is avoided if it is not absolutely necessary to get to work that can't be done from home or to go to education.

Shops are asked to limit the customers if necessary but no specific limit is mentioned.

Anders Tegnell was asked about restaurants and bars and said that people should avoid meeting up there in larger groups but that family and close friends is fine as long as it is in smaller groups. And they have no plans to work towards closing or regulating them.

So nothing is being closed in Uppsala (not even nursing homes from visitors).

Judge for yourself if that sounds like a lockdown to you. Sounds more like Irish Level 1 or so to me (minus requirement for facemasks).

Hopefully it will have enough effect and Uppsala can go back to more normality in a few weeks. The aim is still to live with the virus on an overall level and in order to do that short targeted recommendations like these are going to be used.

Yep, that's pretty much it. It would barely register as a lockdown compared to many European countries right now. There are articles about it here and here.

Vieira82

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Do you have a plan to continue to pay our national debt after coronavirus and in the absence large corporations that will presumably leave after our corporation tax doubles?
If so, I'd love to hear it.

I wonder how your plan will affect life expectancy...

I sure do! but this is not the thread for it. Feel free to open a new thread about it and i'll be more than glad to expose my points there. thanks

tobefrank321

charlie14 wrote: »

Can we cut the BS for a start ?
Denying at this stage that herd immunity was not the major driver behind Sweden`strategy is like denying the sun rises from the east.
I know the theory behind acquired herd immunity. What I do not know, nor does anyone who predicted the time required to achieve it, We have had two experts here who were sure they knew Giesecke and Levitt where neither were within an ass`s roar of getting it right.
Even if you went for it as I`ve said to you already, not only have the predictions,modelling figures and the one example who thought they had achieved it been near that roar either.


Nobody know if it can be achieved, let alone measure if enough have level of immunity required, what level they have or how long it would last.
It`s a vague theory with no scientific basis.

How many viruses have we gained acquired herd immunity for in this short term you are talking about ?

And round we go again.

They discussed it back in march. Several countries and health authorities discussed herd immunity back in march, then rejected it as an approach. The UK took the herd immunity approach, far more so than the Swedes, then rejected it. The idea that we'd still be discussing herd immunity approach in the UK is farcical.

You say their approach is herd immunity and then you say they are now locking down.

What is their CURRENT approach? Not 7 months ago, now. Simple question.

I think at this stage if you say herd immunity is their current approach, we're done, because it feels like you're on some sort of wind up.

Finally, you are pinning your hopes on a miracle vaccine - I think you need to read this for a realistic view of a vaccine and its potential effectiveness.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1022/1173108-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness/

People have unrealistic expectations of a vaccine, particularly one that had limited testing in the high risk categories.

ShayNanigan

With all the talk about how Sweden has handled this well, I haven't seen much discussion about the fact that they pretty much adopted the policy to kill off old people. I can confirm this from what my Swedish contacts (friends, family) have told me. People in nursing homes didn't even get to see a doctor, instead the nurses were told over the phone to give the patients morphine instead of even discussing giving them supplemental oxygen. Not a chance to get treatment let alone go to the hospital. To top it off, many deaths weren't registered as Covid deaths, keeps the statistics clean. I think it's quite a cruel way of dealing with things.

An article from June but apparently it's still going on:

https://www.bioedge.org/bioethics/questions-raised-about-swedens-covid-19-policy-on-nursing-homes/13479

They just announced they're removing the special recommendations for over-70s and risk groups:

https://www.thelocal.se/20201022/sweden-scraps-coronavirus-recommendations-for-over-70s

tobefrank321

ShayNanigan wrote: »

With all the talk about how Sweden has handled this well, I haven't seen much discussion about the fact that they pretty much adopted the policy to kill off old people. I can confirm this from what my Swedish contacts (friends, family) have told me. People in nursing homes didn't even get to see a doctor, instead the nurses were told over the phone to give the patients morphine instead of even discussing giving them supplemental oxygen. Not a chance to get treatment let alone go to the hospital. To top it off, many deaths weren't registered as Covid deaths, keeps the statistics clean. I think it's quite a cruel way of dealing with things.

An article from June but apparently it's still going on:

https://www.bioedge.org/bioethics/questions-raised-about-swedens-covid-19-policy-on-nursing-homes/13479

They just announced they're removing the special recommendations for over-70s and risk groups:

https://www.thelocal.se/20201022/sweden-scraps-coronavirus-recommendations-for-over-70s

Not this again. We've been over this countless times on this thread. It has been standard procedure in every western european country including Ireland, unfortunately. I raised a question about it on here early in the pandemic and was roundly condemned, the argument being it was cruel to prolong the lives of people in nursing homes. At this stage I have come around to that way of thinking.

The average age of death from covid 19 in Ireland is about 82. The average age of those in ICU is about 62. The average hospitalisation age is about 48. Its similar in every western country including US and Canada. Nursing home residents are rarely brought to hospital or ICU for treatment for covid 19, especially during a spike. There was a huge effort to save younger lives at the expense of the elderly, including in Ireland. Tough decisions were made in every country.

So saying Sweden was the exception in this regard has been discredited and is complete bullsh*t.

Bit cynical

ShayNanigan wrote: »

They just announced they're removing the special recommendations for over-70s and risk groups:

https://www.thelocal.se/20201022/sweden-scraps-coronavirus-recommendations-for-over-70s

However this has nothing to do with nursing homes and over-70s are still free to take whatever precautions they think necessary according to their own requirements.

"It is not the case that elderly people should start taking the bus as normal. Everyone should act with great care, you shouldn't go out and crowd in shops unnecessarily, you should avoid rush hour. There will be a risk for individuals. We will see that a few people will get sick, but we have to find a balance," he said."

I think also we need to recognize that Sweden had about the same cumulative death rate among the various age groups as Ireland to date.

charlie14

tobefrank321 wrote: »

And round we go again.

They discussed it back in march. Several countries and health authorities discussed herd immunity back in march, then rejected it as an approach. The UK took the herd immunity approach, far more so than the Swedes, then rejected it. The idea that we'd still be discussing herd immunity approach in the UK is farcical.

You say their approach is herd immunity and then you say they are now locking down.

What is their CURRENT approach? Not 7 months ago, now. Simple question.

I think at this stage if you say herd immunity is their current approach, we're done, because it feels like you're on some sort of wind up.

Finally, you are pinning your hopes on a miracle vaccine - I think you need to read this for a realistic view of a vaccine and its potential effectiveness.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1022/1173108-covid-19-vaccine-effectiveness/

People have unrealistic expectations of a vaccine, particularly one that had limited testing in the high risk categories.

The only one going around here is you, and avoiding answering a simple question in doing so.
You are a fan of naturally acquired herd immunity as a cure-all. I asked how many viruses we have gained acquired herd immunity for in this short time you believe it is possible to do so with this virus.
It would also help if you did not attribute statements to me I didn`t make.


I never mentioned the U.K. Never even alluded to the U.K. Nor did not say I believed Sweden were still following their herd immunity strategy.
I said that denying that herd immunity was (as in past tense) not the major driver behind Sweden`s strategy is like denying the sun rises from the east.


So to be crystal clear I believe the authorities in Sweden recognised when the antibody tests results were so far off the modelling figures that like Annika Linde, (Anders Tegnell predecessor), it was a pipe dream.
It would not surprise me to hear that was around the time they struck the deal with AstraZeneca for 6 million vaccines and an option on 2 million more.
Sweden now are like everyone else, hooping to control the rise in numbers and with the change in who gets a say now regional areas are now looking at ways of doing that, similar to Upsalla this week.

On vaccines I`m not expecting a sudden miracle. You are on the vaccine thread and if you have seen any of my posts there than you know that.
Far as I am concerned any help they give will be better than what we have now, which is sweet damn all, and are the only viable way to combat this virus.


This is not a vaccine thread. As you know yourself there is a very good thread dealing with that, and while I would disagree on the testing of vulnerable categories, this is not the place to discuss this. Post up that link there. There are a lot of people on there much better informed than me who I believe will happily discuss it with you.


There is something at the very end of that link that is relevant to this acquired herd immunity theory though. While the numbers are still small it is pointed out that recent research has confirmed that it is possible for someone to become reinfected with Covid-19.

charlie14

Bit cynical wrote: »

However this has nothing to do with nursing homes and over-70s are still free to take whatever precautions they think necessary according to their own requirements.

"It is not the case that elderly people should start taking the bus as normal. Everyone should act with great care, you shouldn't go out and crowd in shops unnecessarily, you should avoid rush hour. There will be a risk for individuals. We will see that a few people will get sick, but we have to find a balance," he said."

I think also we need to recognize that Sweden had about the same cumulative death rate among the various age groups as Ireland to date.

I think we also need to recognise that none of the other Scandinavian countries had anywhere close to Sweden`s cumulative death rate among the various age groups.

Bit cynical

charlie14 wrote: »

I think we also need to recognise that none of the other Scandinavian countries had anywhere close to Sweden`s cumulative death rate among the various age groups.

However there are also large differences among the Scandinavian countries. Stockholm is probably closer to Amsterdam, Brussels or London than Oslo for example.

Bit cynical

charlie14 wrote: »

So to be crystal clear I believe the authorities in Sweden recognised when the antibody tests results were so far off the modelling figures that like Annika Linde, (Anders Tegnell predecessor), it was a pipe dream.

Would we not, if herd immunity were the goal, expect a rapid U-turn when those anti-body results came out (I think back in May)?


Instead they simply continued on. Either herd immunity was not the goal or else they did not believe that antibodies were a good indicator of immunity (as turned out to be the case).

tobefrank321

Regards Uppsala, its population is 172,000, 1.6% of the entire Swedish population.

Compared to Ireland where 100% of the population are under much stricter restrictions.

Bit cynical

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Regards Uppsala, its population is 172,000, 1.6% of the entire Swedish population.

Compared to Ireland where 100% of the population are under much stricter restrictions.

And, of course, that 1.6% have nothing like the restrictions Ireland has or had even during the lightest period since the epidemic.

Vieira82

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Not this again. We've been over this countless times on this thread. It has been standard procedure in every western european country including Ireland, unfortunately. I raised a question about it on here early in the pandemic and was roundly condemned, the argument being it was cruel to prolong the lives of people in nursing homes. At this stage I have come around to that way of thinking.

The average age of death from covid 19 in Ireland is about 82. The average age of those in ICU is about 62. The average hospitalisation age is about 48. Its similar in every western country including US and Canada. Nursing home residents are rarely brought to hospital or ICU for treatment for covid 19, especially during a spike. There was a huge effort to save younger lives at the expense of the elderly, including in Ireland. Tough decisions were made in every country.

So saying Sweden was the exception in this regard has been discredited and is complete bullsh*t.

That is 100% a lie. Other countries do not or did not have these policies at all under covid or regular times. It's an extreme situation ONLY when the patient has no other chance of survival. And not used if a person just gets sick

Actually in Portugal we had a number of care homes with cases and always there was a huge drive to save everyone and clean the care home.

One particular case back in April became famous as of the 10 workers 9 got infected and so the care home was down to one worker and the director literally doing everything they could to save the residents. Portuguese Health Officials where swamped trying to control outbreaks in the region but in the end they where able to move the elderly to other facilities while the place was deep cleaned.

This did not happen in Sweden and maybe it doesn't happen in Ireland, I don't know. But two wrongs don't make it right... and 100% that was not the norm to care for the elderly anywhere else during the first wave.

tobefrank321

Vieira82 wrote: »

That is 100% a lie. Other countries do not or did not have these policies at all under covid or regular times. It's an extreme situation ONLY when the patient has no other chance of survival. And not used if a person just gets sick

Actually in Portugal we had a number of care homes with cases and always there was a huge drive to save everyone and clean the care home.

One particular case back in April became famous as of the 10 workers 9 got infected and so the care home was down to one worker and the director literally doing everything they could to save the residents. Portuguese Health Officials where swamped trying to control outbreaks in the region but in the end they where able to move the elderly to other facilities while the place was deep cleaned.

This did not happen in Sweden and maybe it doesn't happen in Ireland, I don't know. But two wrongs don't make it right... and 100% that was not the norm to care for the elderly anywhere else during the first wave.

At the peak in Ireland, there were days when 50, 60 or even 100 died here, the vast majority elderly and most from nursing homes.

Only about 10 people a day ended up in ICU, the average age being 62.

If you look at this document : https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_20201021%20-Website.pdf

Out of 519 in total who ended up in ICU, only 7 were over 85.

The elderly were not sent to ICU in significant numbers.

Its obvious most died in their nursing homes. And to deny them morphine at the end would have been extremely cruel, and hopefully didn't happen. When old people are given morphine in Ireland to enable a peaceful death, its called humanitarian. When the same is done in Sweden its called murder. Such hypocritical bullsh*t is tiresome. We're coming across as a nation of finger pointers at this stage.

Vieira82

tobefrank321 wrote: »

At the peak in Ireland, there were days when 50, 60 or even 100 died here, the vast majority elderly and most from nursing homes.

Only about 10 people a day ended up in ICU, the average age being 62.

If you look at this document : https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_20201021%20-Website.pdf

Out of 519 in total who ended up in ICU, only 7 were over 85.

The elderly were not sent to ICU in significant numbers.

Its obvious most died in their nursing homes. And to deny them morphine at the end would have been extremely cruel, and hopefully didn't happen. When old people are given morphine in Ireland to enable a peaceful death, its called humanitarian. When the same is done in Sweden its called murder. Such hypocritical bullsh*t is tiresome. We're coming across as a nation of finger pointers at this stage.

You're understanding bananas while others are trying to talk apples with you. This is the problem with Swedish care homes:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

Not terminally ill people being given morphine, but people on first stages of the disease being DENIED healthcare and then dying of it.

Those two things are completely different. One is caring for a dying person another is blatant eugenics which would not be the first time it's an issue in Sweden by the way...

tobefrank321

Vieira82 wrote: »

You're understanding bananas while others are trying to talk apples with you. This is the problem with Swedish care homes:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

Not terminally ill people being given morphine, but people on first stages of the disease being DENIED healthcare and then dying of it.

Those two things are completely different. One is caring for a dying person another is blatant eugenics which would not be the first time it's an issue in Sweden by the way...

The same happened in Ireland. Feel like you just ignored what happened in Ireland in March, April and May. People dying en masse in nursing homes, not getting near a hospital.

Look at the stats in the document I linked, less than half of deaths occurred in hospital. 44% of those who died over 85. 7 over 85s out of 519 total in ICU.

Same story, elderly denied access to hospital in order to keep space free for the young. It happened here too.

tobefrank321

Vieira82 wrote: »

You're understanding bananas while others are trying to talk apples with you. This is the problem with Swedish care homes:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

Not terminally ill people being given morphine, but people on first stages of the disease being DENIED healthcare and then dying of it.

Those two things are completely different. One is caring for a dying person another is blatant eugenics which would not be the first time it's an issue in Sweden by the way...

But why believe me, when you can have an account from someone with real life experience of this.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5894594/family-appeal-inquiry-nursing-home-covid-19-death/

On March 17, Florence’s daughter, Linda Maples, got a call from staff at the home to tell her that four residents and two staff had picked up the virus but her mum was fine.

But on April 9, her family were told she had a temperature and was refusing to eat or drink.

Former hospital cleaner Florence — who was known as the Queen of Sheba at the nursing home because she always had her make-up on — was later confirmed to have Covid.

The family wanted Florence to be sent to hospital but were told by staff that hospitals weren’t accepting patients from nursing homes as they were trying to free up beds for an expected surge of Covid cases.

Her relatives spent the next two weeks outside the nursing home watching her slowly “get worse” through the window.

'ABSOLUTELY HEARTBREAKING'
Emotional Ann Marie said: “The last morning we had camped out. We all stayed in our cars outside the window. It was about quarter past five in the morning and I went over the window to check on her and something was wrong.

“Then her mouth just dropped to her chest and she just took this gasp in. I rang the nurses station and told everyone.

“The nurse came in and went and got the head nurse and they told us that Florence was on her last ­transition and I told my mam that I didn’t want her to die alone.

“So I was going to put on the full PPE and go in and then my aunt came back and they were only ­letting one of us go in so Linda went in.

“The rest of us stood ­outside watching every minuscule breathe she took and it was just absolutely heartbreaking.

“Not once could my mam go in and tell my nana she loved her. She only got to do that two weeks before she died.

“The last time she spoke to her was on a WhatsApp video call.”

STAFF UNDER 'SEVERE PRESSURE'
Florence had six kids, with son Jimmy left to watch his mother pass away on a video call from Australia.

Ann Marie said: “I actually held the phone in the window with Jimmy on FaceTime watching his mother die.

“That was the hardest thing I think I’ve ever had to do.

“He was in tears on the phone. Anyone who thinks that this disease is easy, it hasn’t hit them.

“You only truly know what it’s like when it affects your family.”

Ann Marie said the nursing home “tried their best” to accommodate the family and used WhatsApp calls to allow them see their grandmother but said the workers were under “severe pressure” with no supports.

The family are furious with how the Government handled the virus outbreak in nursing homes and are devastated that Tara Winthrop Clinic’s plea for help fell on deaf ears at the start of the pandemic.

Vieira82

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The same happened in Ireland. Feel like you just ignored what happened in Ireland in March, April and May. People dying en masse in nursing homes, not getting near a hospital.

Look at the stats in the document I linked, less than half of deaths occurred in hospital. 44% of those who died over 85. 7 over 85s out of 519 total in ICU.

Same story, elderly denied access to hospital in order to keep space free for the young. It happened here too.

Right! So because the same thing hapenned in Ireland! your argument now is that it's normal for this to happen and we should continue to do so.

Shouldn't you be AGAINST this instead of defending and actually be appalled at what they let happen in Ireland and not literally wishing/defending a continuation of the same?

Gotta love how big your heart is...

tobefrank321

Vieira82 wrote: »

Right! So because the same thing hapenned in Ireland! your argument now is that it's normal for this to happen and we should continue to do so.

Shouldn't you be AGAINST this instead of defending and actually be appalled at what they let happen in Ireland and not literally wishing/defending a continuation of the same?

Gotta love how big your heart is...

How on earth did you get that from what I said?

Do I run the HSE? I have no control over what happened. The HSE made monumental mistakes, the main one, ignoring nursing homes. But at least the Swedes apologized for a similar mistake, you'll be waiting for one in Ireland.

Your posting style is starting to resemble Charlies. You are caught out on one thing so you move to something else. When you are caught out on that you move back to the original issue. And so on.

I simply pointed out to you that what happened in Sweden also happened here. But the Swedes were decent enough to give morphine to those dying in pain, whereas that may not even have happened here in every case.

Vieira82

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How on earth did you get that from what I said?

Do I run the HSE? I have no control over what happened.

Your posting style is starting to resemble Charlies. You are caught out on one thing so you move to something else. When you are caught out on that you move back to the original issue. And so on.

I simply pointed out to you that what happened in Sweden also happened here. But it now seems the Swedes were decent enough to give morphine to those dying in pain, whereas that may not even have happened here.

No you DID NOT simply point out. You started your argument stating "it's normal everywhere what hapenned in Sweden.

I proved you wrong.

Then you went on to justify it was common in Sweden.

I proved you wrong.

Then you went on a whataboutism stating it happenned in Ireland so therefore Sweden is unimportant.

I proved how heartless you are for advocating for this and now you are out of arguments and opt for a defensive (oh it's not my responsability) and an ad hominem (you and such user are the same).

glad I proved you wrong and how flimsy your argument "since March" was

tobefrank321

Vieira82 wrote: »

Right! So because the same thing hapenned in Ireland! your argument now is that it's normal for this to happen and we should continue to do so.

Shouldn't you be AGAINST this instead of defending and actually be appalled at what they let happen in Ireland and not literally wishing/defending a continuation of the same?

Gotta love how big your heart is...

And before you post any more nonsense about nursing homes, you should educate yourself on what happened across Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52094491

tobefrank321

Vieira82 wrote: »

No you DID NOT simply point out. You started your argument stating "it's normal everywhere what hapenned in Sweden.

I proved you wrong.

Then you went on to justify it was common in Sweden.

I proved you wrong.

Then you went on a whataboutism stating it happenned in Ireland so therefore Sweden is unimportant.

I proved how heartless you are for advocating for this and now you are out of arguments and opt for a defensive (oh it's not my responsability) and an ad hominem (you and such user are the same).

glad I proved you wrong and how flimsy your argument "since March" was

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52094491

Read the article. Educate yourself.

Vieira82

tobefrank321 wrote: »

And before you post any more nonsense about nursing homes, you should educate yourself on what happened across Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52094491

I do not need to reply to you anymore... you clearly lost the argument and are now just in an ad hominem rampage because you have nothing else. Have a great life

Vieira82

tobefrank321 wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52094491

Read the article. Educate yourself.

Your link: 30th of March

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836 -> this report is from 19th of May.

Like I said, ad hominem and grasping constantly to nothing to try and be right.

you know, it does not hurt to assume you're wrong about something

tobefrank321

Vieira82 wrote: »

I do not need to reply to you anymore... you clearly lost the argument and are now just in an ad hominem rampage because you have nothing else. Have a great life

good luck

charlie14

Bit cynical wrote: »

Would we not, if herd immunity were the goal, expect a rapid U-turn when those anti-body results came out (I think back in May)?


Instead they simply continued on. Either herd immunity was not the goal or else they did not believe that antibodies were a good indicator of immunity (as turned out to be the case).

Tegnell was still talking up the possibility picking numbers out of the sky as far as I recall for the first antibody test result. It was the second antibody test results that put a stop to the idea. The results from France and Spain also showed the strategy was going nowhere.
Swede`sdo not strike me as people who are big on U-turns, but it would be interesting when the approach was made to AstraZeneca on vaccines.


I do not see how antibody test results are a great indicator of acquired herd immunity. Amazonas claimed on their test results they had achieved it but three days after that claim they reimposed restrictions due to rising numbers.

charlie14

Bit cynical wrote: »

However there are also large differences among the Scandinavian countries. Stockholm is probably closer to Amsterdam, Brussels or London than Oslo for example.

I would see more similarities between Sweden and its Nordic neighbours than between Ireland and Sweden.

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

I would see more similarities between Sweden and its Nordic neighbours than between Ireland and Sweden.

So Ireland failed to protect its most vulnerable citizens in the same way Sweden did.

The similarities will become evident when the trial takes place for both nations in The Hague.

Sweden’s hearing won’t take as long, they won’t be tried for removing its citizens civil liberties

99nsr125

Thats me wrote: »

The idea of lockdown is to "flatten the curve" to avoid overloading health system with infected patients. Unlikely situation would be any better if hospitals would be overcrowded by COVID-19 patients. Hard to prove obvious things though.

Flattening the curve you understand doesn't save anyone. Doesn't reduce the final number of cases or deaths or hospitalizations and so on. It just makes it appear like we have a handle on it when in reality we simply never have.

99nsr125

charlie14 wrote: »

The only one going around here is you, and avoiding answering a simple question in doing so.
You are a fan of naturally acquired herd immunity as a cure-all. I asked how many viruses we have gained acquired herd immunity for in this short time you believe it is possible to do so with this virus.
It would also help if you did not attribute statements to me I didn`t make.

Snip

Actually that was me you gave that response too and it very effectively proves you are in fact going around in circles.

Notably however, I never claimed herd immunity as a cure-all but our most likely, most realistic and best chance as vaccine development is a decades long process and countless diseases that devastated us in the past still circulate. Bubonic plague, TB , leprosy even mumps, measles and polio all still circulate.

There is no eradicating Covid, indeed there have been waves of flu in the past that hit the world but we didn't give them a separate name. The moniker makes the hysteria without it we would have the normal trolleywatch figures instead.