Sweden avoiding lockdown

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope, in Ireland that decision was only made when hospitals were at max capacity. In Sweden that decision was made despite hospitals having capacity.

You honestly have no clue what you're talking about. When hospitals were almost empty here in the late spring/early summer, people were still dying in droves in nursing homes. Only 8 over 85s made it to ICU in Ireland. Something like 750 over 80 year olds died here, likely higher now.

tobefrank321

biko wrote: »

Not only them.
Swedish journalist Kristoffer Viita thinks it's great old people die off and leave their apartments behind.

https://nyadagbladet.se/inrikes/svt-journalist-jublar-over-att-gamla-dor-av-coronaviruset/

You should have read some of the posts on here back in February/March. They were along the lines of "This will reduce the pensions bill"

Just because a small minority hold an opinion, doesn't mean everyone in the country holds that opinion.

tobefrank321

There's over 2 million over 65s in Sweden. Something like 6500 over 65s have died there or about 0.3% of the elderly population.

The other 99.7% survived.

So much for a cull of their elderly!

In Ireland there are about 650,000 over 65s. Something like 2000 over 65s died here or about 0.3% of the elderly population.

99.7% of our elderly population also survived.

The same percentage of elderly survived in both countries.

If the Swedes are culling their elderly, we are doing the same.

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

You honestly have no clue what you're talking about. When hospitals were almost empty here in the late spring/early summer, people were still dying in droves in nursing homes. Only 8 over 85s made it to ICU in Ireland. Something like 750 over 80 year olds died here, likely higher now.

There's so many things with such a short post, it's also hilarious how you yet again walk away from previous mistakes and claims as if they never happened.


1) There's a difference between a deliberate, premeditated & universal policy to not admit patients from nursing homes regardless of capacity, or patient prognosis - and not admitting patients when you're over capacity, or on an individual basis not admitting those patients who are regarded as deriving no benefit from critical care.


2) Youre conflating 'hospital care' with 'icu care'. That's dishonest.


3) You're arbitrarily picking 'over 85's' only. That's also dishonest.








For someone who cares about 'honesty' and 'credibility', why are you yet again showing that you have neither?

tobefrank321

biko wrote: »

Sweden turns down offer of help from Norway.
https://direkte.vg.no/nyhetsdognet/news/sverige-takker-nei-til-norsk-corona-hjelp.KlTDhbP3H

Because they don't need help yet.

Do any of you bother with even the slightest research?

Sweden have something like 260 covid ICU patients. They have the ability to increase ICU to 1100 if required. Currently they have about 4500 spare beds if it comes to it. They have a long way to go to fill ICU capacity.

So even if Stockholm ICU was filled, why would they send covid patients abroad rather than somewhere else in Sweden?

biko

tobefrank321 wrote: »

You should have read some of the posts on here back in February/March. They were along the lines of "This will reduce the pensions bill"

Just because a small minority hold an opinion, doesn't mean everyone in the country holds that opinion.

Anyone here knows full well not everyone is Sweden holds this opinion but he did, and maybe still does.

biko

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Because they don't need help yet.

Do any of you bother with even the slightest research?

You should be telling Norway this. I'm sure they'll be happy to get your help. Or maybe they'll say no.

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

There's so many things with such a short post, it's also hilarious how you yet again walk away from previous mistakes and claims as if they never happened.


1) There's a difference between a deliberate, premeditated & universal policy to not admit patients from nursing homes regardless of capacity, or patient prognosis - and not admitting patients when you're over capacity, or on an individual basis not admitting those patients who are regarded as deriving no benefit from critical care.

If you read back over the thread I covered this, ie a policy of blanket refusing nursing homes patients in hospitals both here and in the UK.

Amnesty International have been particularly critical in the UK

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/10/uk-older-people-in-care-homes-abandoned-to-die-amid-government-failures-during-covid-19-pandemic/

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Because they don't need help yet.

Do any of you bother with even the slightest research?

Sweden have something like 260 covid ICU patients. They have the ability to increase ICU to 1100 if required. Currently they have about 4500 spare beds if it comes to it. They have a long way to go to fill ICU capacity.

So even if Stockholm ICU was filled, why would they send covid patients abroad rather than somewhere else in Sweden?

Oh my lord.

Sweden has the potential to increase ICU capacity. We do not know to how much, we do not know how long it will take. What we do know is that they are at current ICU capacity in certain regions, and you're lying about them not being at capacity because you've come this far through life without gaining even a basic understanding of the concept of time.

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

If you read back over the thread I covered this, ie a policy of blanket refusing nursing homes patients in hospitals both here and in the UK.

Amnesty International have been particularly critical in the UK

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/10/uk-older-people-in-care-homes-abandoned-to-die-amid-government-failures-during-covid-19-pandemic/

Why are you ignoring points 2 and 3?


Why are you ignoring the images?


A lie of omission is still a lie, why are you still posting without any care about honesty or credibility?


Bringing up the UK is risible. You made a claim about Ireland, and now you're referring to the UK.


Stop being dishonest. Stop lacking any credibility.

tobefrank321

biko wrote: »

Anyone here knows full well not everyone is Sweden holds this opinion but he did, and maybe still does.

He's obviously a nutcase. They are in every country.

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are you ignoring points 2 and 3?


Why are you ignoring the images?


A lie of omission is still a lie, why are you still posting without any care about honesty or credibility?


Bringing up the UK is risible. You made a claim about Ireland, and now you're referring to the UK.


Stop being dishonest. Stop lacking any credibility.

You haven't read the thread. I've covered all this several times. Its not my fault you're too lazy to go back over it. Go back and read all my posts on this thread and then we'll talk.

tobefrank321

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh my lord.

Sweden has the potential to increase ICU capacity. We do not know to how much, we do not know how long it will take. What we do know is that they are at current ICU capacity in certain regions, and you're lying about them not being at capacity because you've come this far through life without gaining even a basic understanding of the concept of time.

ok - you're a windup merchant - say hello to ignore.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are you ignoring points 2 and 3?


Why are you ignoring the images?


A lie of omission is still a lie, why are you still posting without any care about honesty or credibility?


Bringing up the UK is risible. You made a claim about Ireland, and now you're referring to the UK.


Stop being dishonest. Stop lacking any credibility.

dont bother

frank lost any credibility in this thread ages ago.

he patently lies now.

Widdensushi

biko wrote: »

On March 8 this year - three days before the World Health Organization declared the covid-19 outbreak a pandemic - the Indian government ordered telecom operators to send text messages with basic information about the disease to the country's about 1.3 billion mobile phones.

In Norway, it took a little longer, they sent mass messages with corona info on March 12th.

In Sweden it was sent today December 14th...

Compare the message from Denmark to Sweden's

What about Ireland?

sydthebeat

Widdensushi wrote: »

What about Ireland?

thread title?

Widdensushi

sydthebeat wrote: »

thread title?

Just wondering if we got any messages, as it is being pointed out Sweden was late sending them.

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

You haven't read the thread. I've covered all this several times. Its not my fault you're too lazy to go back over it. Go back and read all my posts on this thread and then we'll talk.

Someone posted about a localised Swedish policy to not admit any nursing home residents to hospital.


You responded saying Ireland was the same.


When queried on your claim, you then changed the goalposts entirely to "over 85's only" and "ICU only, not hospitalisations" and then claimed I need to 'read the thread' to see where you've covered this extensively.


Why are you addicted to being dishonest?


Why are you addicted to diminishing any remaining vestiges of credibility you may have left?


Both behaviours seem pathological at this stage.

Ginger n Lemon

sydthebeat wrote: »

dont bother

frank lost any credibility in this thread ages ago.

he patently lies now.

according to you?

I think Frank posts more factual useful info than some posters here in 20 + pages...

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

ok - you're a windup merchant - say hello to ignore.

I had €2,000 in my bank account 6 months ago.


I have €0 in my bank account now.


I have the potential to earn an unspecified figure in an unspecified time in the future.


You: "Your bank account isn't empty right now, because in the future it probably won't be empty"


Also you: "You're a windup merchant for understanding time"

charlie14

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Because they don't need help yet.

Do any of you bother with even the slightest research?

Sweden have something like 260 covid ICU patients. They have the ability to increase ICU to 1100 if required. Currently they have about 4500 spare beds if it comes to it. They have a long way to go to fill ICU capacity.

So even if Stockholm ICU was filled, why would they send covid patients abroad rather than somewhere else in Sweden?

In Sweden at the moment it does not appear to be hospital or ICU beds that are the problem. It`s lack of nurses to staff them.
They had as many hospitalised and in ICU during the first wave, but did not need to appeal to the private sector to lend them staff.

sydthebeat

Widdensushi wrote: »

Just wondering if we got any messages, as it is being pointed out Sweden was late sending them.

you must not have been one of the 1.6 million people to watch this then:

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/leos-speech-sets-new-tv-record-as-16-million-tune-in-39057364.html

sydthebeat

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

according to you?

I think Frank posts more factual useful info than some posters here in 20 + pages...

as youre basically franks mimic, im not at all surprised

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

you must not have been one of the 1.6 million people to watch this then:

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/leos-speech-sets-new-tv-record-as-16-million-tune-in-39057364.html

They also must not have been living in Ireland when An Post delivered a covid-19 information booklet in late March to every single household in the country

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They also must not have been living in Ireland when An Post delivered a covid-19 information booklet in late March to every single household in the country

Lol

They did in their rear end

We certainly never got one anyway.. nor did any of the neighbours

sydthebeat

lawred2 wrote: »

Lol

They did in their rear end

We certainly never got one anyway.. nor did any of the neighbours

funny that, absolutely everyone i know got one and your the first person ive heard complain that they didnt get one

what did An Post say when you followed it up?

Yes, I'm sure you went and asked all your neighbours if they remembered getting a leaflet in the 2minutes betweem my post and my reply.

Or, I'm sure you asked all your neighbours 9 months ago whether they received an information leaflet that you hadn't heard about at the time and hadn't received.

Yup, both of those possibilities seem pretty reasonable.

Or else, it was binned by you or someone in your household as it wasn't particularly memorable or useful during our first heavy lockdown. Which sounds more reasonable to the casual observer?

charlie14

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

according to you?

I think Frank posts more factual useful info than some posters here in 20 + pages...

Your really not doing Frank any favours.


Your "factual" posts have been in the main questionable, and all your predictions have been shown as incorrect.

Ginger n Lemon

sydthebeat wrote: »

as youre basically franks mimic, im not at all surprised

I do have to say you are extremely hostile.

I am unsure why?

One thing is certain the stuff posted here in this thread over last few weeks is just empty vessel like. Remember the post about "Tegnelled" ?

Cringe.

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes, I'm sure you went and asked all your neighbours if they remembered getting a leaflet in the 2minutes betweem my post and my reply.

Or, I'm sure you asked all your neighbours 9 months ago whether they received an information leaflet that you hadn't heard about at the time and hadn't received.

Yup, both of those possibilities seem pretty reasonable.

Or else, it was binned by you or someone in your household as it wasn't particularly memorable or useful during our first heavy lockdown. Which sounds more reasonable to the casual observer?

I don't really care what you find reasonable