Sweden avoiding lockdown

Mervyn Skidmore

tobefrank321 wrote: »

You mean like an apology for being wrong? From governments and senior health professionals? Like the one issued by Sweden with regards to nursing homes?
The one we're still waiting for from the Irish government?

As for facts, they couldn't be clearer. A large number of countries are in deep trouble. Pretending otherwise won't work.

I was making a general observation not aimed at anything in particular. Must have hit a nerve though.

kippy

MadYaker wrote: »

I’m not surprised this is happening to them. All I’m wondering is why it didn’t happen sooner and why did they think this wouldn’t happen?

It probably didn't happen sooner as people were more compliant with the restrictions they did have in place earlier in the year. However as with what has happened in every country these compliance levels dropped as the year went on and in the absence of stricter restrictions which gives people less options this is the inevitable consequence.

BryanMartin21

odyssey06 wrote: »

Why would that matter?

Sweden didnt lockdown and are having a massive second wave about to overwhelm their ICU capacity and the inevitable spike in deaths that will follow.

At least Switzerland avoided wave 1 and if they repeat the spring lockdown will flatten wave 2 to a lower peak... instead of letting it rip.

Sweden having a second wave? That is not correct. This is the first wave for Sweden. Seems to be completely in line with other European countries.

sydthebeat

MadYaker wrote: »

Despite there being literally no evidence for that and the UK doing a fairly big u turn on the same strategy? What made them so confident? Some of their politicians and scientists did seem a bit arrogant pontificating to the world a few months back. Still sad to see though.

You're very far behind the times

odyssey06

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Sweden having a second wave? That is not correct. This is the first wave for Sweden. Seems to be completely in line with other European countries.

That must be news to the thousands of people who died in the first wave in Spring in Sweden.
And it just had its worst November for deaths since the Spanish flu - the second wave.
So I'm not sure what you mean.

sydthebeat

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/swedish-expert-backtracks-on-herd-immunity-for-ireland-1.4362844

thank god our powers that be didnt listen to this fool back in September.

pretty much everything he says in that clip is wrong

JimmyVik

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Sweden having a second wave? That is not correct. This is the first wave for Sweden. Seems to be completely in line with other European countries.

Throw up the chart for deaths there til we have a look. ITs beside the cases button on your screenshot.

BryanMartin21

odyssey06 wrote: »

That must be news to the thousands of people who died in the first wave in Spring in Sweden.
And it just had its worst November for deaths since the Spanish flu - the second wave.
So I'm not sure what you mean.

Let's see your data or are you just talking ****e?

BryanMartin21

JimmyVik wrote: »

Throw up the chart for deaths there til we have a look. ITs beside the cases button on your screenshot.

Now back under your bridge.

greyday

100 Deaths notified today with nearly 10K infections, the second wave looks as if it will be worse than the first if things don't change quickly.

BryanMartin21

greyday wrote: »

100 Deaths notified today with nearly 10K infections, the second wave looks as if it will be worse than the first if things don't change quickly.

First wave.

CrabRevolution

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Now back under your bridge.

But you just proved him right..?
The first wave was that massive spike in deaths shown around April/May in your graph. The 2nd wave is the massive spike they're currently experiencing.

Unless you're just arguing that the first wave never ended and this is actually the 9th month of one big wave.

odyssey06

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Let's see your data or are you just talking ****e?

It's not my data.
You just posted the data showing two spikes in deaths, April-May and November.

You'll have to explain how that doesn't make two distinct waves, because at the moment, your posts appear to contradict themselves.
Not sure why you have to resort to needless digs, just explain what you mean.

greyday

That seems to be what he is arguing, experts all over Europe would disagree with him though.

wadacrack

Sweden's approach been a disaster , hopefully they can get it under control.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1339939089710235651

greyday

wadacrack wrote: »

Sweden's approach been a disaster , hopefully they can get it under control.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1339939089710235651

But Frank said their numbers were sustainable, what gives?

JimmyVik

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Now back under your bridge.

LOL.
Dod you even look at that image.
Are you saying we are on the first wave of the virus but the second wave of deaths

greyday

https://www.thelocal.se/20201218/swedish-prime-minister-stefan-lofven-press-conference-coronavirus

New measures with more to come if they don't work

odyssey06

greyday wrote: »

https://www.thelocal.se/20201218/swedish-prime-minister-stefan-lofven-press-conference-coronavirus
New measures with more to come if they don't work

Summarising main points - seems about a mix of our Level 2-3?

• Sweden will recommend face masks on public transport at certain times, said Prime Minister Stefan Löfven as he announced a series of new coronavirus measures on Friday afternoon.
• Sweden will also lower the limit for groups at restaurants to four people per group, and will ban alcohol sales from 8pm, said Löfven. A cap on the number of people in shops, shopping centres and gyms will also be rolled out.
• "If that does not have the planned effect, the government will also plan to close those businesses," said Löfven.
• Schools for over-16s will also continue online classes beyond Christmas, until January 24th. And all non-essential public services run by the state, municipalities and regions will close with immediate effect, and will remain closed until January 24th – this includes for example swimming pools, sports centres and museums, said Löfven.

greyday

odyssey06 wrote: »

Summarising main points - seems about a mix of our Level 2-3?

• Sweden will recommend face masks on public transport at certain times, said Prime Minister Stefan Löfven as he announced a series of new coronavirus measures on Friday afternoon.
• Sweden will also lower the limit for groups at restaurants to four people per group, and will ban alcohol sales from 8pm, said Löfven. A cap on the number of people in shops, shopping centres and gyms will also be rolled out.
• "If that does not have the planned effect, the government will also plan to close those businesses," said Löfven.
• Schools for over-16s will also continue online classes beyond Christmas, until January 24th. And all non-essential public services run by the state, municipalities and regions will close with immediate effect, and will remain closed until January 24th – this includes for example swimming pools, sports centres and museums, said Löfven.

Soft lockdowns have not worked in most Countries but Swedes think they are different, I genuinely hope those in charge are held to account for their inaction.

BryanMartin21

CrabRevolution wrote: »

But you just proved him right..?
The first wave was that massive spike in deaths shown around April/May in your graph. The 2nd wave is the massive spike they're currently experiencing.

Unless you're just arguing that the first wave never ended and this is actually the 9th month of one big wave.

Massive spike on deaths!? 1 per week per 100k of population. That is a "massive" spike?! 200 in a week or 10,000 in a year.

For context, 9,000 die of cancer in Ireland per year, a country of 4 million,a fifth the population of Sweden.

Kermit.de.frog

For context, 9,000 die of cancer in Ireland per year, a country of 4 million,a fifth the population of Sweden.

Sweden has a population of roughly 10 million.

Ireland has a population of 5 million.

BryanMartin21

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Sweden has a population of roughly 10 million.

Apologies, correct.

100 deaths in a week with covid is not a wave with a population of 10m.

xhomelezz

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Apologies, correct.

100 deaths in a week with covid is not a wave with a population of 10m.

Just out of curiosity, what's the obsession with waves? Does it matter if it's wave one or two?

BryanMartin21

xhomelezz wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what's the obsession with waves? Does it matter if it's wave one or two?

I'm not the one saying Sweden is having a second wave. It frames a discussion however when talking about their strategy to date.

jimmycrackcorm

xhomelezz wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what's the obsession with waves? Does it matter if it's wave one or two?

What matters is managing a wave, how long the effects of a particular wave are and if you can reduce subsequent waves. If you lock down hard enough you can reduce that for the first wave, which we've seen. But it's not sustainable, and the point is how to deal with second and subsequent waves so that the effects can be reduced, in terms of deaths, infection rates and economic impact.

CrabRevolution

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

I'm not the one saying Sweden is having a second wave. It frames a discussion however when talking about their strategy to date.

Your original claim was that Sweden is currently enduring its first wave, but now you're saying that the virus isn't serious enough for its effects to be called a 'wave' even though that's what just about all authorities, experts and the media are calling it?

I don't think I'm alone here in struggling to understand what your point is.

greyday

Sweden had 100 deaths a day during thr first wave and are probably above that now in the second wave.

jimmycrackcorm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Your original claim was that Sweden is currently enduring its first wave, but now you're saying that the virus isn't serious enough for its effects to be called a 'wave' even though that's what just about all authorities, experts and the media are calling it?

I don't think I'm alone here in struggling to understand what your point is.

You aren't alone. A wave has a peak and troughs before and after and his posted attachment shows that:



If it quacks and walks like a duck rises and ebbs like a wave?
Perhaps though the argument is that it won't come down this time...

odyssey06

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

If it quacks and walks like a duck rises and ebbs like a wave?
Perhaps though the argument is that it won't come down this time...

I would't waste time second guessing this opaque nonsense.