Sweden avoiding lockdown

tobefrank321

biko wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TouristInSpace/status/1343921201303982080?s=20

That's not all.
Social Democrat Morgan Johansson, Minister for Justice and Migration, also went to at least one shopping mall.
https://www.en24news.com/2020/12/the-nurses-protest-where-morgan-johansson-was-shoppingen.html

Mask wearing is not compulsory in shopping malls in Sweden.
Another fail for you.

tobefrank321

Vieira82 wrote: »

glad to know your employer at least allows you to have Christmas

Grow up FFS.

Mike Murdock

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Mask wearing is not compulsory in shopping malls in Sweden.
Another fail for you.

Ever heard of Leading by Example?

Hoboo

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Mask wearing is not compulsory in shopping malls in Sweden.
Another fail for you.

You serious?

Regardless of it being compulsory or not you can't recognise the breakdown in the message and the action, and the consequential repercussions?

Really?

tobefrank321

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Ever heard of Leading by Example?

Why would he lead by example when mask wearing in shopping centres is not government policy?

tobefrank321

Hoboo wrote: »

You serious?

Regardless of it being compulsory or not you can't recognise the breakdown in the message and the action, and the consequential repercussions?

Really?

What message are you referring to?

biko

tobefrank321 is now trying to change the discussion to the minor "no mask" issue instead of addressing the bigger issue that Swedish government ministers (including the PM himself) flaunt the don't go to malls rule their PM has set.

zerosugarbuzz

People seem notably angrier on boards today, I wonder if it’s the pending lockdown looming over us.

tobefrank321

biko wrote: »

tobefrank321 is now trying to change the discussion to the minor "no mask" issue instead of addressing the bigger issue that Swedish government ministers (including the PM himself) flaunt the don't go to malls rule their PM has set.

People go to malls at christmas shocker.
Most people consider christmas shopping essential so good luck asking people to stay away at christmas.

biko

tobefrank321 wrote: »

People go to malls at christmas shocker.
Most people consider christmas shopping essential so good luck asking people to stay away at christmas.

That is what the Swedish PM did ask of the Swedish people, and then didn't even adhere to himself.
No wonder they have so many dead in Sweden, it's a land of idiots governed by idiots.

Mike Murdock

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Why would he lead by example when mask wearing in shopping centres is not government policy?

It's called common sense, Frank.

Not that I would expect that clown Lofven to show any of that given his talk-out-of-both sides of his mouth approach to the pandemic.

tobefrank321

biko wrote: »

That is what the Swedish PM did ask of the Swedish people, and then didn't even adhere to himself.
No wonder they have so many dead in Sweden, it's a land of idiots governed by idiots.

They advised people to avoid shopping centres. They didn't order them to do it. There's a difference.
As for hypocrisy, we've had plenty examples among Irish politicians. Those idiots too?

zerosugarbuzz

Out of curiosity does anyone know the % of excess deaths in Sweden this year compared to Ireland?

tobefrank321

I would call our own "Golfgate" worse hypocrisy.

Everything some posters accuse the Swedes of happened here too. Ita really tiresome at this stage.

You can have the best intentions in the world but if your strategy is sh*t you're going to end up with lots of dead people. So far a large number of central, eastern and southern european countries thought they were doing the right thing with harsh lockdowns in the spring. They are going to end up with the worst outcomes in the world.

Germany actually had 1240 notified deaths yesterday, and they are closing in on 6000 in icu. That despite posting deaths daily over the christmas.

Unsustainable hard lockdowns in a number of countries will end up killing more people than if they had went for more sustainable measures.

tobefrank321

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Out of curiosity does anyone know the % of excess deaths in Sweden this year compared to Ireland?

Honestly no because it will be well into 2021 before we know that.

Some anti swedish poster will be along shortly to tell you Sweden had an excess of 10% for the month of November over a normal year. They won't tell you Ireland had an excess of 40% for April though or that most countries in Europe had higher than normal excess deaths for various months and will have for the year.

zerosugarbuzz

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Honestly no because it will be well into 2021 before we know that.

Some anti swedish poster will be along shortly to tell you Sweden had an excess of 10% for the month of November over a normal year. They won't tell you Ireland had an excess of 40% for April though or that most countries in Europe had higher than normal excess deaths for various months and will have for the year.

Thanks. I’d be interested to see how many died in both countries last year as opposed to this year, is it possible to see this basic information anywhere online?

kippy

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I would call our own "Golfgate" worse hypocrisy.

Everything some posters accuse the Swedes of happened here too. Ita really tiresome at this stage.

You can have the best intentions in the world but if your strategy is sh*t you're going to end up with lots of dead people. So far a large number of central, eastern and southern european countries thought they were doing the right thing with harsh lockdowns in the spring. They are going to end up with the worst outcomes in the world.

Germany actually had 1240 notified deaths yesterday, and they are closing in on 6000 in icu. That despite posting deaths daily over the christmas.

Unsustainable hard lockdowns in a number of countries will end up killing more people than if they had went for more sustainable measures.

It's very difficult to tell with a lot of this. Human behaviour is very difficult to gauge for a variety of factors.
No doubt in years to come there will be a tonne of studies done on the various things that countries did and the reaction of the population to them.

biko

tobefrank321 wrote: »

They advised people to avoid shopping centres. They didn't order them to do it. There's a difference.

This is what Loven said

We live in a time of trial. It will get worse. Do your duty. Take responsibility for stopping the spread of infection. Make the right choice - for yourself, for society and for Sweden.

And the Minister for Health (that also did not adhere to her own words)

Do not find loopholes - take your responsibility and do everything you can. It is not voluntary - it is our common duty

tobefrank321 wrote: »

As for hypocrisy, we've had plenty examples among Irish politicians. Those idiots too?

Yes, don't you think so yourself?

biko

So far five Social Democrat government members have flaunted the Prime Ministers call, including himself.


The question is - is there anyone in Swedish government that adhered to the Prime Minister's call?

greyday

243 deaths with 9K infections, unfortunately Frank Tegnells assertions regarding herd immunity is costing lives on an awful scale all over Europe, Sweden have not avoided anything and the lockdown only seems to have caused the infection rate to stagnate rather than drop.

biko

Sweden is probably at 9000 deaths now, but the reporting drags on because of the holidays.

tobefrank321

243 notified deaths today. More deaths from the 6 day lag over the christmas period. I was expecting it to be worse but they will probably be reporting high numbers for the next week due to the christmas period.

tobefrank321

I see greyday calls me Frank Tegnell. Given that he/she subscribes to the same strategy as Arlene Foster, I will be calling him/her Arlene Greyday from now on

biko

Half of elderly that have died so far were not checked by a physician.
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/halften-undersoktes-inte-av-lakare-innan-de-dog/

josip

biko wrote: »

That is what the Swedish PM did ask of the Swedish people, and then didn't even adhere to himself.
No wonder they have so many dead in Sweden, it's a land of idiots governed by idiots.

Whilst there are many criticisms one can level against the Swedes, being idiots isn't one of them.
The high number of deaths in Sweden is due to a lack of empathy and compassion rather than a lack of intelligence.
They would definitely be aware of what's happening and the case numbers, but are prepared to accept them.

It's hard to identify the origins of this coldness or detachment, it's the most "I'm alright Jack" country I've experienced.
Also important to clarify that this cold superiority is a facet of only the southern and central Swedes.
Swedes from the far north, in truth Lapps or partially Lapps, are a much warmer, more convivial people.
So I don't believe any of the "shapen by the climate" theories.

biko

Yes, of course not every Swede is an idiot.
For instance many self-isolated when the government would not endorse it.
Many used masks when the government would not endorse it.


Sweden joined others in banning UK planes a week ago.
But at least one slipped through because general incompetence.
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/coronaviruset/brittiskt-plan-landade-pa-arlanda-trots-flygforbud/

Now Sweden's government is lifting the ban and allowing people in. But people from UK must have a kinda recent negative Covid test.

Swedish citizens can travel freely back from UK with no tests.
There is also no demand for self-isolation upon arrival, just a recommendation.

biko

International fame for Sweden
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-30/swedish-pm-criticized-for-shopping-tour-in-middle-of-covid-surge

A number of the most senior members of Sweden’s government, including the prime minister, have been caught apparently ignoring their own Covid guidelines.

Prime Minister Stefan Lofven and Justice Minister Morgan Johansson were among those named in Swedish media this week for seeming to flout restrictions they insist must be followed if the country is to rein in the coronavirus.

charlie14

tobefrank321 wrote: »

FFS. You've lost the plot. I was putting the Danish numbers in the context of what they would be in Ireland so people understand what out of control means.
The Danish numbers are obviously out of control. Take your head out of the sand for once.

Many countrys numbers are out of control. Why do you insist on denying this?

NI and Germany are the latest countries to be added to the failed lockdown experiment. Germany close to 1000 deaths yesterday. If this keeps up they'll end up one of the worst in Europe in a couple of months.

Do you not think you have overplayed the false outrage at this stage Frank. As well as transparent it`s becoming tedious.

What you did was compare the trend in Denmark to Sweden. When you were shown the stats it didn`r seem such a great example any more, so you then switched to comparing Denmark to Ireland.

"The Danish numbers are obviously out of control".

What does that say about Sweden`s numbers Frank ?
Let me guess. Still sustainable!
And you tell me to get my head out of the sand.:)

tobefrank321

charlie14 wrote: »

Do you not think you have overplayed the false outrage at this stage Frank. As well as transparent it`s becoming tedious.

What you did was compare the trend in Denmark to Sweden. When you were shown the stats it didn`r seem such a great example any more, so you then switched to comparing Denmark to Ireland.

"The Danish numbers are obviously out of control".

What does that say about Sweden`s numbers Frank ?
Let me guess. Still sustainable!
And you tell me to get my head out of the sand.:)

I DID NOT COMPARE DENMARKS NUMBERS TO IRELANDS SO STOP TALKING BS.

I PUT DENMARKS NUMBERS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE IRISH POPULATION TO DEMONSTRATE WHAT OUT OF CONTROL MEANS.

I'll give you one last chance to demonstrate you're not a wind up merchant before sticking you on ignore where you probably belong and will be in good company.

Denmark has posted two record days of 30 deaths in the last week, continue to post high cases and their icu number has jumped to 130 and will continue to rise.

Like I said you're a head in the sand merchant, willing to talk about Denmark when they are going well, unwilling to talk about them when they aren't. No wonder I think you're on one big wind up!

charlie14

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I DID NOT COMPARE DENMARKS NUMBERS TO IRELANDS SO STOP TALKING BS.

I PUT DENMARKS NUMBERS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE IRISH POPULATION TO DEMONSTRATE WHAT OUT OF CONTROL MEANS.

I'll give you one last chance to demonstrate you're not a wind up merchant before sticking you on ignore where you probably belong and will be in good company.

Denmark has posted two record days of 30 deaths in the last week, continue to post high cases and their icu number has jumped to 130 and will continue to rise.

Like I said you're a head in the sand merchant, willing to talk about Denmark when they are going well, unwilling to talk about them when they aren't. No wonder I think you're on one big wind up!

I haven`t a clue what you are attempting to prove anymore, and I doubt you do either.
Not long ago it was Sweden not using lockdown was sustainable, but even Sweden don`t agree with that anymore.
They are now recommending face masks as well, but in their normal mickey mouse way. Attempting to gloss over they got that wrong as well and it not even coming into effect until January 7th.


Your latest belief is that Denmark`s numbers are out of control.
Sweden didn`t post numbers for today but for the previous 6 days, even if they are most likely incomplete, they have had 41,336 new infections and 448 deaths.
Denmark have for the same period had 14,889 new infections and 142 deaths.
Allowing for population difference in that 6 day period, Sweden had 58% more new infections and 79% more deaths than Denmark.

I have asked you this already but you have failed to answer.
You believe Denmark`s numbers are out of control so how can you believe Sweden`s are not ?