Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Sweden avoiding lockdown
Options
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
caveat emptor wrote: »I know it's a skit but that's not Swedish she's speaking. It's Dutch.
Are Swedish people not allowed speak Dutch?
But I think the point still stands and it's a powerful display when restaurant staff are told they don't need masks, they just need to keep distance.
I'm sure those who disagree will say there was nobody at the tables to catch the bottles and glasses of drink lol. Christ imagine if you ordered a fry
0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
I don't know what Sweden have done exactly, but whatever it was, it was just as successful as other mid table peer countries in Europe, and better than many - and they have a relatively normal life.
All this nonsense about comparing them to Norway and Finland is just that, nonsense. Those countries prevented COVID getting in and taking hold in the first place - the same thing that happened in the likes of NZ and Aus and some Asian countries. Couple that with strict border controls FROM THE START and you can see how that could work.
The only stat you can rely on to any degree of comparison is excess deaths. I say this because for example the UK uses "a death within 28 days of a positive COVID test" as their metric, which even a primary school child will see is a ridiculous way to measure COVID deaths.
Excess deaths on the other hand, are clear - you are either alive or dead. If we have a lethal pandemic, this should show up in the excess death stats. If it doesn't there is no lethal pandemic. Simple. And indeed it does show up.
Below is excess deaths since the start of 2020 to date for UK countries and Sweden. You can make your own over at euromomo.com.
The reality is the strict lockdowns have TOTALLY FAILED to protect the vulnerable in our society, while destroying life as we know it, the economy, and pretty certainly a wave of deaths for undiagnosed illnesses and suicides for everyone else.
If lockdown as practiced here is such a roaring success as a strategy, Sweden should have 10x the deaths of any other European countries, especially as they are 85% urban and have a very large elderly population. They should have been decimated. The fact is they weren't. Any pro lockdowners first have to explain why the death toll in Sweden ISN'T 10x of say Belgium before they can say lockdowns, or at least lockdowns as we know them, work. They also have to PROVE that these extremely damaging and costly lockdowns actually save lives - not stack them up to be knocked down again when opening up. The null hypothesis, that the level of infections and deaths we have now would have happened anyway, is looking like the most likely explanation. That, or Swedes do something magical and different than the rest of us.
In Ireland we incentivised everyone to go mad for a few weeks at Christmas - "save Christmas" and COVID partied along with us. You couldn't have devised a better strategy to maxially spread COVID. Keep people locked down for months and then let them loose. What the hell did they expect to happen?
Considering they lived and are living a pretty normal life compared to us prisoners, we should find out exactly what they are doing and this should be the model we all use until the vaccines are rolled out.
0 -
-
WicklaBlaa wrote: »Does anyone have the figures for deaths per million in Sweden versus deaths per million in Ireland? I think Sweden have a much older population too.
An interesting comparison because it's the most locked down country (Ireland) versus the least locked down country (Sweden).
Ireland has had twice as many 'hard lockdown days' as Finland which had the 2nd longest hard lockdown in Europe.
Sweden are 19th in deaths per million from COVID. Ireland 39th. Rightmost column is deaths per 1m pop. Source : https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
EDIT: There is something off with the sorting, as you can see from the numbers, so there are a few low death per million countries sprinkled in.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Sweden are 19th in deaths per million from COVID. Ireland 39th. Rightmost column is deaths per 1m pop. Source : https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
EDIT: There is something off with the sorting, as you can see from the numbers. I will post an update.
Thanks - very interesting data.0 -
-
for the "2020 was just a normal year in Sweden" Gemma Bros
2020 has both the **most number of excess deaths** & **highest per capita excess deaths** than any year since the 1918-1919 pandemic.
https://twitter.com/drericding/status/13521330902153871360 -
Deleted User wrote: »I don't know what Sweden have done exactly, but whatever it was, it was just as successful as other mid table peer countries in Europe, and better than many - and they have a relatively normal life.
All this nonsense about comparing them to Norway and Finland is just that, nonsense. Those countries prevented COVID getting in and taking hold in the first place - the same thing that happened in the likes of NZ and Aus and some Asian countries. Couple that with strict border controls FROM THE START and you can see how that could work.
The only stat you can rely on to any degree of comparison is excess deaths. I say this because for example the UK uses "a death within 28 days of a positive COVID test" as their metric, which even a primary school child will see is a ridiculous way to measure COVID deaths.
Excess deaths on the other hand, are clear - you are either alive or dead. If we have a lethal pandemic, this should show up in the excess death stats. If it doesn't there is no lethal pandemic. Simple. And indeed it does show up.
Below is excess deaths since the start of 2020 to date for UK countries and Sweden. You can make your own over at euromomo.com.
The reality is the strict lockdowns have TOTALLY FAILED to protect the vulnerable in our society, while destroying life as we know it, the economy, and pretty certainly a wave of deaths for undiagnosed illnesses and suicides for everyone else.
If lockdown as practiced here is such a roaring success as a strategy, Sweden should have 10x the deaths of any other European countries, especially as they are 85% urban and have a very large elderly population. They should have been decimated. The fact is they weren't. Any pro lockdowners first have to explain why the death toll in Sweden ISN'T 10x of say Belgium before they can say lockdowns, or at least lockdowns as we know them, work. They also have to PROVE that these extremely damaging and costly lockdowns actually save lives - not stack them up to be knocked down again when opening up. The null hypothesis, that the level of infections and deaths we have now would have happened anyway, is looking like the most likely explanation. That, or Swedes do something magical and different than the rest of us.
In Ireland we incentivised everyone to go mad for a few weeks at Christmas - "save Christmas" and COVID partied along with us. You couldn't have devised a better strategy to maxially spread COVID. Keep people locked down for months and then let them loose. What the hell did they expect to happen?
Considering they lived and are living a pretty normal life compared to us prisoners, we should find out exactly what they are doing and this should be the model we all use until the vaccines are rolled out.
But we do know what Sweden did during their first wave and what they are doing now.
During their first wave they choose to ignore lockdown and go with the advice of Tegnell`s Public Health Authority and chase herd immunity instead. When it was obvious from their antibody test results this had failed, beginning of their second wave Tegnell attempted to rewind the clock back to March and do the same again.
With rising numbers in October he lifted restrictions on care homes, told the vulnerable it was again fine to mingle with the general population, and was going to increase the numbers allowed at public gatherings to 500.
The regional authorities saw it for the insanity it was, and as soon as they had the authority to do so imposed their own local lockdowns.
This forced the government to sideline Tegnell and his PHA, bring in new pandemic laws and mandatory restrictions punishable by fines or imprisonment.
You make it sound as if there was some reason that prevented Sweden from following the same course as their Nordic neighbours.
There wasn`t. It was a choice they made.
To date pro rata Norway have 9% of Sweden`s Covid deaths, Denmark 32% and Finland 11%.
You make the point that with the UK, even a primary school child will see as a ridiculous way to measure Covid deaths using "a death within 28 days of a positive COVID test"
Would that not make Sweden`s method of measuring Covid deaths equally as ridiculous in the eyes of that primary school child as they use the same metric?
Euronomos charts can be confusing when it comes to actual figures.For annual deaths Statistica is much more clear cut.
Sweden annual death 2020 are 97,941 as opposed to 88,766 for 2019. An increase of 10.34% . Contrary to your belief, and unless you can point to anything else over the last 41 weeks, ( for the first 11 deaths were below the normal level), in Sweden that resulted in those 9,175 excess deaths then I believe it is very clear the figures show their is a lethal pandemic.
I do not know which of the two Swedish strategies you believe we should be looking at or emulating, but with Sweden pro rata having 80% more Covid deaths and 40% more confirmed cases than Ireland, I would not see it as in any way a sensible suggestion.0 -
-
Deleted User wrote: »Sweden are 19th in deaths per million from COVID. Ireland 39th. Rightmost column is deaths per 1m pop. Source : https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
EDIT: There is something off with the sorting, as you can see from the numbers, so there are a few low death per million countries sprinkled in.
Covid is a disease which kills over 90% in the over 65 category.
Sweden has about 50% more over 65s than Ireland.
If we had the same proportion of 65s as Sweden, our deaths per million would be about 1000.
Whereas Sweden appear to be past the peak in terms of notified deaths we appear to be in the middle of the peak and so our deaths per million will outpace them for another few weeks.
In the end, the chances of an elderly person dying in Sweden will be about the same as Ireland.
Which is unsurprising because we made the same mistakes as the Swedes which was a failure to control borders and quarantine people properly.
Lockdowns without proper border control have been proven failures and a waste of time and money.0 -
Advertisement
-
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement