Sweden avoiding lockdown

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

You appear to a problem with comprehension.

I already said what it is. A O.E.C.D. health report where the data is at a minimum 5 years out of date.
Other than just another of your distraction attempts, I have no idea what relevance it has on Sweden avoiding lockdown.

Especially where a post on statistics from Eurostat, (a Directorate-General of the European Commission), off Sweden having over 50% single household occupancy was "classic trolling misinformation", I believe was the term you used ?
Something you then ignored when another poster pointed out to you the source and something you have repeatedly continued to ignore when asked for an explanation.

On the subject of housing figures. You never actually challenged me on that accusation, made months ago.

Another poster Greyday did. I ignored him because Of his reply regarding the deaths of children caused by the UK government cutting foreign aid.

Why? Possibly because you look after your own first and not locking down is a death sentence to the old and vulnerable, there are over 50K dead in the UK from the virus and you would like multiples of that to keep people alive in other Countries where their life expectancy is shocking and their lives in general are full of suffering


His attitude that children should be left to starve because their life expectancy is shocking and their lives in general are full of suffering was simply disgusting, and so I ignored his challenge.

It says everything about you that you didn't even try and defend yourself and hid behind that type of poster.

I stand over everything I said. I presented it as an example of your misinformation.

1.8 of 10.3 million Swedish citizens live alone. A rate of 17%. This 1.8 million, or 17% live in 1.8 million of the 4.7 million housing stock. A rate of 38%. By way of contrast, approximately 8-10% of Irish people live alone. So, around 83% of Swedish people live in family clusters as compared to around 90% in Ireland.

You simply misrepresent the Eurostat Data on housing stock (50% single occupancy) to make it appear that 50% of Swedish people live alone (true rate, around 17%, depending on website stats) giving them some incredible advantage in the fight against transmission where as the true rate, depending on different site statistics is around 17%.

Glad to be able to clear that all up.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/524909/sweden-number-of-single-person-households/#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20households%20in,amounted%20to%20around%201.8%20million.

sheepysheep

beauf wrote: »

I get Page not found?

Is this what your looking for?

https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/state/docs/2018_healthatglance_rep_en.pdf

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

It's a 2018 report. How can it be 5 years out of date?

It won't be out of date in 10 years time because the data will be available for comparison with 2020, 2022, 2024 reports when they arrive.

Comparisons made by, you know, researchers looking for insights.

You don't like the data so your attack it's veracity. Typical fake news approach.

It`s 2018 report where the overwhelming data is from 2016 or earlier.
This is 2021. 2021-2016 = 5.

It may not be out of date in 10 years time, but if this 2020 report is compiled using the same parameters as the 2018 report, then again the vast majority of the data will be from 2018 or earlier.
I have no thoughts either way on the data. My question to you was what relevance, (other than further attempts at distraction), a report where the vast majority of the data is from 2016, or earlier, has in relation to a Covid-19 thread titled Sweden avoiding lockdown ?

For someone who accuses others of being alt-right you spend a lot of time on here shouting that fake news slogan of the far right Trumpists. Sound as if you are a major fan of The Donald.

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

What race does he belong to?

Limerick :rolleyes:




At least you didn`t attempt to defend the bullying

biko

American epidemiologist about Sweden's strategy

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1364869473765908481?s=19

cnocbui

biko wrote: »

American epidemiologist about Sweden's strategy

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1364869473765908481?s=19

Ding seems to be considered a right Charlie by many of his peers:

But as Feigl-Ding’s influence has grown, so have the voices of his critics, many of them fellow scientists who have expressed ongoing concern over his tweets, which they say are often unnecessarily alarmist, misleading, or sometimes just plain wrong. “Science misinformation is a huge problem right now—I think we can all appreciate it—[and] he’s a constant source of it,” said Saskia Popescu, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at George Mason University and the University of Arizona who serves on FAS’s COVID-19 Rapid Response Task Force, a separate arm of the organization from Feigl-Ding’s work.

Tara Smith, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at Kent State University, suggested that Feigl-Ding’s reach means his tweets have the power to be hugely influential. “With as large of a following as he has, when he says something that’s really wrong or misleading, it reverberates throughout the Twittersphere,” she said.
Misinterpretations, caveats, and sensationalism

Critics point to numerous problems. Not too long after his “holy mother of God” tweet, for example, Feigl-Ding took to Twitter to discuss a titillating but non-peer-reviewed paper that some readers interpreted as evidence that SARS-CoV-2 was engineered in a lab; once the authors retracted the preprint, he deleted a series of tweets from the middle of the thread.

In March, Feigl-Ding tweeted a graph from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as evidence that young people were “just as likely to be hospitalized as older generations,” but failed to mention an important detail about the age ranges represented in the graph’s bars, which didn’t actually support that claim.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90581545/eric-feigl-ding-covid-19-twitter

And there's lot's more criticism of him besides that sample.

cnocbui

charlie14 wrote: »

Limerick :rolleyes:

At least you didn`t attempt to defend the bullying

Racist. I'll make sure to bully him and tell him what I really think of him if i happen to bump into the git when down the shops.

FintanMcluskey

biko wrote: »

American epidemiologist about Sweden's strategy

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1364869473765908481?s=19

Ah, so now the Americans are in a position to critique Sweden

is_that_so

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ah, so now the Americans are in a position to critique Sweden

No, that's just the attention-seeking Eric looking for something to tweet!

sheepysheep

Here are two excellent pieces of research on the whole covid event. They contain about as much data as you could hope to digest.

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

This uses a very snazzy graph for comparing excess deaths. Its interactive and allows anyone to compare any number of countries.

The second is a FT report.

https://www.ft.com/content/a2901ce8-5eb7-4633-b89c-cbdf5b386938

It also has a global vaccine tracker and a link to an interactive tool where you are invited to compare up to 6 different countries at a time.

It also provides excess death figures in standalone graphs where Sweden is again compared with a host of other countries.

There's a lot of info in here.

humberklog

Without re-quoting Biko's post of Eric Ding's Tweet- I find myself confused.

There's a vid of the Swedish PM questioning the reasoning for introducing measures because of the results they'd give. Which would kinda mean that Sweden are still taking a more relaxed approach to locking down. This would tally with what I can read and see regarding Sweden. For the most part it looks like Ireland on a mild dose of Level 3 but with little adherence to the wearing of face masks.

However a few months ago on this thread a few posters were saying that Sweden is going into lock down. So much so that there were posts saying that the thread should either be renamed or indeed locked as it was apparent that "Sweden avoiding lockdown" was no longer correct.

So is Sweden still a fairly open society (like the PM has suggested) or is it now on full lock down like some posters have said?

It does get a bit confusing when people's second guesses gets mixed up in the noise with relevant facts.

greyday

humberklog wrote: »

Without re-quoting Biko's post of Eric Ding's Tweet- I find myself confused.

There's a vid of the Swedish PM questioning the reasoning for introducing measures because of the results they'd give. Which would kinda mean that Sweden are still taking a more relaxed approach to locking down. This would tally with what I can read and see regarding Sweden. For the most part it looks like Ireland on a mild dose of Level 3 but with little adherence to the wearing of face masks.

However a few months ago on this thread a few posters were saying that Sweden is going into lock down. So much so that there were posts saying that the thread should either be renamed or indeed locked as it was apparent that "Sweden avoiding lockdown" was no longer correct.

So is Sweden still a fairly open society (like the PM has suggested) or is it now on full lock down like some posters have said?

It does get a bit confusing when people's second guesses gets mixed up in the noise with relevant facts.

Do you think Ireland is on a full lockdown?

DylanJM

humberklog wrote: »

Without re-quoting Biko's post of Eric Ding's Tweet- I find myself confused.

There's a vid of the Swedish PM questioning the reasoning for introducing measures because of the results they'd give. Which would kinda mean that Sweden are still taking a more relaxed approach to locking down. This would tally with what I can read and see regarding Sweden. For the most part it looks like Ireland on a mild dose of Level 3 but with little adherence to the wearing of face masks.

However a few months ago on this thread a few posters were saying that Sweden is going into lock down. So much so that there were posts saying that the thread should either be renamed or indeed locked as it was apparent that "Sweden avoiding lockdown" was no longer correct.

So is Sweden still a fairly open society (like the PM has suggested) or is it now on full lock down like some posters have said?

It does get a bit confusing when people's second guesses gets mixed up in the noise with relevant facts.

Non essential retail, gym and indoor dining all still open from what my friend over in Stockholm tells me. Don't think there's any internal travel restrictions or curfews either. Can still meet in small groups (up to 8?).

FintanMcluskey

greyday wrote: »

Do you think Ireland is on a full lockdown?

It depends on what you consider lockdown.

It’s the 5th strictest global lockdown according to this metric.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/ireland-under-strictest-lockdown-in-eu-claims-oxford-report-1086454.html

It was 2nd globally until certain schools opened recently.

Ireland now has a score of 85.19. This is down from a high of 87.96 earlier in February, before in-person classes resumed in special education schools.

If Ireland isn’t in lockdown nowhere is in lockdown

humberklog

greyday wrote: »

Do you think Ireland is on a full lockdown?

Well we're on Level 5 which is as high as our dial goes.
So without the tools for a "Full Lock Down China Style!" To me "full lockdown" is simply the most severe level a country thinks it can push it. That level varies from country to country.
It's a bit like Spinal Tap's amps going to 11 We've got the dial up as far as we think the speakers will go.
5+ is the new 11 just without the jokes.

But hey, that's just what I think (as you asked). Do you think we're on full lock down Greyday?...or more relevantly to the question I was asking when you unhelpfully answered my question with a question- what level of lock down is Sweden is on?

Boggles

humberklog wrote: »

what level of lock down is Sweden is on?

God knows.

The problem with Sweden at the moment is half the country are sick of restrictions and the other half want something done about the deaths and hospitalizations.

Public health and Governance are just basically screaming at people to please adhere whilst bringing in minimal restrictions.

Exponential growth of the 3rd Wave has started and will peak in 4-6 weeks, probably accelerated by a big public holiday next week.

More deaths, more hospitalizations, more restrictions and in all likely hood less adherence by those who are fed up.

So the level right now is somewhere between a rock and a hard place.

humberklog

Boggles wrote: »

God knows.

The problem with Sweden at the moment is half the country are sick of restrictions and the other half want something done about the deaths and hospitalizations.

So not unlike the rest of European citizens but just on the other end of the telescope.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

God knows.

The problem with Sweden at the moment is half the country are sick of restrictions and the other half want something done about the deaths and hospitalizations. .

Where exactly have you got this from?

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Where exactly have you got this from?

The news.

It's a deeply divided country over the response which is becoming more split.

It's why governance are buckling and bringing in legally binding restrictions.

humberklog

Boggles wrote: »

The news.

It's a deeply divided country over the response which is becoming more split.

It's why governance are buckling and bringing in legally binding restrictions.

But those legally binding restriction have been brought in and enforced back in October/November if you were to believe some here posting back then and like I've said- people's second guesses of the future have been muddying the facts of the present.

From what I've been listening to there is some unhappiness with the government's position but that kinda ebbs and flows. But for it to be "deeply divided" I'd think that you'd see some unrest on the streets or at the very least a far more pronounced public show of descent by a large amount of its citizens and frankly- that's not happening.

Every country's government has supporters and detractors and so far Sweden isn't any different in that.

People aren't forming mobs on the streets (joke intended) looking for restrictions and wanting to pop the heads of the ruling classes onto spikes lining the roads.

charlie14

humberklog wrote: »

Without re-quoting Biko's post of Eric Ding's Tweet- I find myself confused.

There's a vid of the Swedish PM questioning the reasoning for introducing measures because of the results they'd give. Which would kinda mean that Sweden are still taking a more relaxed approach to locking down. This would tally with what I can read and see regarding Sweden. For the most part it looks like Ireland on a mild dose of Level 3 but with little adherence to the wearing of face masks.

However a few months ago on this thread a few posters were saying that Sweden is going into lock down. So much so that there were posts saying that the thread should either be renamed or indeed locked as it was apparent that "Sweden avoiding lockdown" was no longer correct.

So is Sweden still a fairly open society (like the PM has suggested) or is it now on full lock down like some posters have said?

It does get a bit confusing when people's second guesses gets mixed up in the noise with relevant facts.

Well the title of the thread is Sweden avoiding lockdown, so Sweden now on "mild dose of level 3" does leave the title no longer correct.
So perhaps the title should be changed to When is lockdown in Sweden not lockdown, or even with the latest mandatory restrictions for cafes and restaurants and the PHA preparing rules that will further cut the maximum number of people allowed in stores and supermarkets, What will Sweden`s next level of lockdown be.

We were being told here from early on that Sweden would never need to go to any level of lockdown because the population was so good at following guidelines and recommendations. That has now be shown as a fallacy, even though I do have sympathy for them in that regard with the complete hodge-podge of mixed messaging they are getting especially on mask wearing.

From a video posted here earlier they are no great shakes at social distancing either but here again nobody in authority seem to be able to make up their mind if it is one and a half meters or two meters.

humberklog

charlie14 wrote: »

Well the title of the thread is Sweden avoiding lockdown, so Sweden now on "mild dose of level 3" does leave the title no longer correct.

Way to go Charlie, why not just zap the virus with a good dose of "charlie14 semantics"?

If it kills the virus as successfully as it kills discourse then big pharma can go suck a large one.

Boggles

humberklog wrote: »

But those legally binding restriction have been brought in and enforced back in October/November

10th of Jan this new legislation was enacted.

No powers existed to curtail and close private business before that, AFAIK, it was basically all voluntary.

humberklog wrote: »

if you were to believe some here posting back then and like I've said- people's second guesses of the future have been muddying the facts of the present.

I'm largely basing my opinions on what Swedish Governance and Swedish Public Health says, which is fairly biased but has undergone a significant mood change since the turn of the year.

humberklog wrote: »

From what I've been listening to there is some unhappiness with the government's position but that kinda ebbs and flows.

If that were the case, parliament would have not been called back for the first time in 15 years during winter break, to pass laws on private business closures.

Also probably even more telling is new financial packages were introduced for businesses who are forced to close, particularly sole traders.

There doesn't need to be people on the streets rioting, all political parties do their own polling. They know exactly what the mood is.

On the plus side, they are reporting some record temps for Spring, should help them a bit.

God Bless Global Warming.

the incredible pudding

Boggles wrote: »

10th of Jan this new legislation was enacted.

No powers existed to curtail and close private business before that, AFAIK, it was basically all voluntary.

Not quite true. They had emergency legislation brought in from the middle of April which wasn't used and expired. After those expired, they had plans to bring in the ability to grant the government those types of powers again in cases of emergency (most countries have this, Sweden don't) but they were going to take a long time to get through the very, very slow instrument that is the Swedish bureaucratic process. This was fast tracked when the second wave started and further fast tracked at it's peak when it looked like the ICUs might be overrun. Thankfully they weren't and numbers dropped. They are now trending up again so thus the increased warnings. I'd say the message from the government and the governmental bodies was more severe back in December tbh (especially after the King's speech) but hope people take notice at the recent stern warnings.

Anyhow, they had powers to close any place that wasn't adhering to the public health restrictions under the public health act (e.g. some bars were temporarily closed in Södermalm back in March until they sorted their place out and cordoned off what was necessary). These restrictions (number of people at a table, not allowing bar service, distance between tables, last orders etc.) have gotten stricter in December and now just a little bit more so.

Boggles wrote: »

God Bless Global Warming.

It was like -16 for like a month so I'll take the warmer weather now!

Elsewhere - there is very little that is 'locked down' in Sweden currently (it could change) but I have no desire to engage on more semantics on the matter. There's no value in it.

Bit cynical

Boggles wrote: »

God knows.
Exponential growth of the 3rd Wave has started and will peak in 4-6 weeks, probably accelerated by a big public holiday next week.

More deaths, more hospitalizations, more restrictions and in all likely hood less adherence by those who are fed up.

I'm afraid people hoping for an Irish-style lockdown in Sweden are going to be disappointed. Currently their daily fatalities are about half those of Ireland and falling at a faster rate the past few weeks according to this logarithmic chart.

sheepysheep

humberklog wrote: »

Without re-quoting Biko's post of Eric Ding's Tweet- I find myself confused.

There's a vid of the Swedish PM questioning the reasoning for introducing measures because of the results they'd give. Which would kinda mean that Sweden are still taking a more relaxed approach to locking down. This would tally with what I can read and see regarding Sweden. For the most part it looks like Ireland on a mild dose of Level 3 but with little adherence to the wearing of face masks.

However a few months ago on this thread a few posters were saying that Sweden is going into lock down. So much so that there were posts saying that the thread should either be renamed or indeed locked as it was apparent that "Sweden avoiding lockdown" was no longer correct.

So is Sweden still a fairly open society (like the PM has suggested) or is it now on full lock down like some posters have said?

It does get a bit confusing when people's second guesses gets mixed up in the noise with relevant facts.

There were some more local restrictions recommended as far as I'm aware a while back.

One local Official described this as 'effectively a lockdown.'

One poster on this thread has repeatedly used this quote as evidence that Sweden is Lockdown.

That's where most of the noise is coming from.

sheepysheep

Bit cynical wrote: »

I'm afraid people hoping for an Irish-style lockdown in Sweden are going to be disappointed. Currently their daily fatalities are about half those of Ireland and falling at a faster rate the past few weeks according to this logarithmic chart.

From this Graph their excess deaths have also gone negative for this time of year too.

Will have to try this again.

99nsr125

sheepysheep wrote: »

There were some more local restrictions recommended far as I'm aware a while back.

One local Official described this as a 'effectively a lockdown.'

One poster on this thread has repeatedly used this quote as evidence that Sweden is Lockdown.

That's where most of the noise is coming from.

Also Sweden is always two weeks away from lockdown
and
Two weeks away from being overwhelmed

Has been.in that state for the last 12 months apparently but it nevet seems to happen . . . . . .

sheepysheep

99nsr125 wrote: »

Also Sweden is always two weeks away from lockdown
and
Two weeks away from being overwhelmed

Has been.in that state for the last 12 months apparently but it nevet seems to happen . . . . . .

Yes, It was going to be 400 deaths per day before Christmas if I remember correctly.

charlie14

humberklog wrote: »

Way to go Charlie, why not just zap the virus with a good dose of "charlie14 semantics"?

If it kills the virus as successfully as it kills discourse then big pharma can go suck a large one.

I have no idea which thread or threads you are a moderator on, but hopefully you do so with a bit more civility and moderation than you display in that post.
If you do not wish to discuss points made then that is your choice. Making narky remarks accusing others of killing discourse is needless semantics