Sweden avoiding lockdown

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

There were some more local restrictions recommended as far as I'm aware a while back.

One local Official described this as 'effectively a lockdown.'

One poster on this thread has repeatedly used this quote as evidence that Sweden is Lockdown.

That's where most of the noise is coming from.

It was Johan Nojd infection disease doctor for the region of Uppsala and he termed it local lockdown for the region.
Uppsala was the first region to break from the PHA recommendations to be followed shortly by many of the other regions. The result was that it forced the Swedish government to become more involved and the PHA being sidelined.

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It depends on what you consider lockdown.

It’s the 5th strictest global lockdown according to this metric.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/ireland-under-strictest-lockdown-in-eu-claims-oxford-report-1086454.html

It was 2nd globally until certain schools opened recently.



If Ireland isn’t in lockdown nowhere is in lockdown

If it depends on what you consider lockdown Fintan, does that mean someone can be just a bit pregnant.

charlie14

Bit cynical wrote: »

I'm afraid people hoping for an Irish-style lockdown in Sweden are going to be disappointed. Currently their daily fatalities are about half those of Ireland and falling at a faster rate the past few weeks according to this logarithmic chart.

Unfortunately their new case numbers are going in the opposite direction with positivity over 11%.

cnocbui

greyday wrote: »

Do you think Ireland is on a full lockdown?

Not a parent of school age children, I take it.

Wolf359f

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It depends on what you consider lockdown.

It’s the 5th strictest global lockdown according to this metric.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.breakingnews.ie/amp/ireland/ireland-under-strictest-lockdown-in-eu-claims-oxford-report-1086454.html

It was 2nd globally until certain schools opened recently.



If Ireland isn’t in lockdown nowhere is in lockdown

That's a weird report, they factor in the following as how severe a lockdown is:
Income support
Debt/contract relief
Fiscal measures
International support
Public information campaigns

So does more income support mean it's a harder lockdown or a more generous government?

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

It was Johan Nojd infection disease doctor for the region of Uppsala and he termed it local lockdown for the region.
Uppsala was the first region to break from the PHA recommendations to be followed shortly by many of the other regions. The result was that it forced the Swedish government to become more involved and the PHA being sidelined.

“It’s more of a lockdown situation—but a local lockdown,” Dr. Johan Nojd, who leads the infectious diseases department in the city of Uppsala, told the Telegraph.

In a statement provided to TIME, however, a spokesperson for the Public Health Agency of Sweden rejected that characterization.

“It is not a lockdown but some extra recommendations that could be communicated locally when a need from the regional authorities is communicated and the Public Health Agency so decides,” the spokesperson said.

So. Not actually a lockdown. But sure that's just Time Magazine.

This is the best bit.

Representatives from the city of Uppsala did not immediately respond to TIME’s request for further comment.

humberklog

charlie14 wrote: »

I have no idea which thread or threads you are a moderator on, but hopefully you do so with a bit more civility and moderation than you display in that post.
If you do not wish to discuss points made then that is your choice. Making narky remarks accusing others of killing discourse is needless semantics

And yet you state you're not a "look over there" merchant?

Breath in Charlie, hold it. Breath out. Have a think about self awareness and breath in again.

And breath out. All the way out.

PM sent.

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

“It’s more of a lockdown situation—but a local lockdown,” Dr. Johan Nojd, who leads the infectious diseases department in the city of Uppsala, told the Telegraph.

In a statement provided to TIME, however, a spokesperson for the Public Health Agency of Sweden rejected that characterization.

“It is not a lockdown but some extra recommendations that could be communicated locally when a need from the regional authorities is communicated and the Public Health Agency so decides,” the spokesperson said.

So. Not actually a lockdown. But sure that's just Time Magazine.

This is the best bit.

Representatives from the city of Uppsala did not immediately respond to TIME’s request for further comment.

The worst bit is you jump on the first thing you see and post it without doing even the most basic research.
Even looking at the present recommendation on mask wearing in various regions compared to that of the Public Health Authority, should have given you the hint that for some time now the Public Health Authority are not exclusively calling the shots anymore.

Did Time Magazine or The telegraph not mention that from the beginning of October the Public Health Authority could call it whatever they wanted, but they could do nothing about it.
Did Time Magazine or The Telegraph also happen to mention that what Dr Johan Nojd the infection disease doctor for the region of Uppsala termed "a lockdown situation-but a local lockdown" went ahead on 20th. October with the same being introduced in Skane, Stockholm, Ostergotland and Vastra Gotaland from 27th.-29th.October. Followed shortly afterward by practically every other region.
So..... if it was a local lockdown on October 20th. what does that make it when all the regions had adopted it?

charlie14

humberklog wrote: »

And yet you state you're not a "look over there" merchant?

Breath in Charlie, hold it. Breath out. Have a think about self awareness and breath in again.

And breath out. All the way out.

PM sent.

Where was the "look over there" ?
You actually called the present situation in Sweden mild level 3.
The title of the thread is Sweden avoiding lockdown .In the same vein as earliers I said to Fintan, calling it mild level 3 lockdown, yet somehow not lockdown, is like saying someone is mildly pregnant.

I never was much into that wellness palaver. I find spending less money for a few decent bottles of Bordeaux has a grand mellowing effect with a whole lot less effort.

humberklog

charlie14 wrote: »

Where was the "look over there" ?
You actually called the present situation in Sweden mild level 3.
The title of the thread is Sweden avoiding lockdown .In the same vein as earliers I said to Fintan, calling it mild level 3 lockdown, yet somehow not lockdown, is like saying someone is mildly pregnant.

I never was much into that wellness palaver. I find spending less money for a few decent bottles of Bordeaux has a grand mellowing effect with a whole lot less effort.

We're at one on the "wellness" issue. Which I like to call a "psychopath's charter".

But I'm popping you in the Ignore list so there's little point in quoting me for a response from now on in.

biko

biko wrote: »

Sweden is at 12000 deaths but is still 3 weeks away from "one year with covid", give that the first person to die was the 11 March and would have got it 2 weeks before that.

We're coming up on "a year with covid".
Approx one year ago the first person to die got infected and cases in Europe started.
It's a year since Anders Tegnell said the virus won't come to Sweden, or if it does it won't cause problems.

Deaths 12826

Boggles

biko wrote: »

We're coming up on "a year with covid".
Approx one year ago the first person to die got infected and cases in Europe started.
It's a year since Anders Tegnell said the virus won't come to Sweden, or if it does it won't cause problems.

Deaths 12826

In the autumn there will be a second wave. Sweden will have a high level of immunity and the number of cases will probably be quite low, But Finland will have a very low level of immunity

Finland had roughly 400 deaths in their 2nd Wave, Sweden have had roughly 7000.

He would have been fired by any other country at this stage.

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

The worst bit is you jump on the first thing you see and post it without doing even the most basic research.
Even looking at the present recommendation on mask wearing in various regions compared to that of the Public Health Authority, should have given you the hint that for some time now the Public Health Authority are not exclusively calling the shots anymore.

Did Time Magazine or The telegraph not mention that from the beginning of October the Public Health Authority could call it whatever they wanted, but they could do nothing about it.
Did Time Magazine or The Telegraph also happen to mention that what Dr Johan Nojd the infection disease doctor for the region of Uppsala termed "a lockdown situation-but a local lockdown" went ahead on 20th. October with the same being introduced in Skane, Stockholm, Ostergotland and Vastra Gotaland from 27th.-29th.October. Followed shortly afterward by practically every other region.
So..... if it was a local lockdown on October 20th. what does that make it when all the regions had adopted it?

It's quite clear. Some new restrictions which can be recommended if felt necessary.

“It is not a lockdown but some extra recommendations that could be communicated locally when a need from the regional authorities is communicated and the Public Health Agency so decides,”

If you yourself point out that the Swedish Parliament had to pass new legislation to commence a lockdown, and that legislation was only passed in January, and that legislation hasn't even been enacted yet, then, as usual, you're plainly talking out your hoop.

Mask wearing has nothing to do with a lockdown. It's just another recommended practice.

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

Where was the "look over there" ?
You actually called the present situation in Sweden mild level 3.
The title of the thread is Sweden avoiding lockdown .In the same vein as earliers I said to Fintan, calling it mild level 3 lockdown, yet somehow not lockdown, is like saying someone is mildly pregnant.

I never was much into that wellness palaver. I find spending less money for a few decent bottles of Bordeaux has a grand mellowing effect with a whole lot less effort.

How incredibly left wing of you. Sitting around quaffing wine and moaning about the Tories while children starve as a result of your precious lockdowns.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/25/uk-foreign-aid-budget-cut-chancellor-announces

charlie14

humberklog wrote: »

We're at one on the "wellness" issue. Which I like to call a "psychopath's charter".

But I'm popping you in the Ignore list so there's little point in quoting me for a response from now on in.

Good description actually as I associate it with with the following of the Kardashian`s and other such fodder for the for the financially gullible.


I have yet to put anyone on the ignore list, but on the principle of fair play being good sport, I will do the same.

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

It's quite clear. Some new restrictions which can be recommended if felt necessary.

“It is not a lockdown but some extra recommendations that could be communicated locally when a need from the regional authorities is communicated and the Public Health Agency so decides,”

If you yourself point out that the Swedish Parliament had to pass new legislation to commence a lockdown, and that legislation was only passed in January, and that legislation hasn't even been enacted yet, then, as usual, you're plainly talking out your hoop.

Mask wearing has nothing to do with a lockdown. It's just another recommended practice.

As per usual you are staring at a particular tree while attempting to ignore the woods.
From the beginning of October the Public Health Authority could call it a moonshot for all the difference it made.


The infection disease doctor for the Uppsala region called it "a lockdown situation- but a local lockdown" and it was adopted by Uppsala on the 20th Oct. followed by four other regions within 9 days and shortly afterward by FAIK practically ever other region and there was nothing the Public Health Authority could do about it. Easy enough to just look on it as a local lockdown when it is just one region. Not so easy when all region are doing it. More like national would you not think ?


The only reason that the Swedish parliament had to sit in emergency session during Christmas was due to them letting the same legislation lapse at the end of June. I thought it a strange statement by a government minister when asked the reason for the reinstatement of that legislation being along the lines that it is better to have a particular tool in your toolbox when you need it, rather than having to go looking for one.
For me it just sounded a tad careless to just discard a tool and then realising you may indeed need it and then have to go and buy it again.


The face mask recommendations are another mish mash not being helped by the Public Health Authority. Some regional authorities are saying wear in crowded spaces and at all times on public transport, including Stockholm while the Public Health Authority are saying only between 7-9 am and 4-6pm on public transport.

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

How incredibly left wing of you. Sitting around quaffing wine and moaning about the Tories while children starve as a result of your precious lockdowns.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/25/uk-foreign-aid-budget-cut-chancellor-announces

Done a bit more digging around my posts have we ?
I do not have the time to deal with this post right now, but when I do I will deal with it and another recent one of yours in the same vein.

Btw, you are very much all over the place as to your assumption on my political persuasion. One post I am apparently "alt-right", the next I`m apparently "incredibly left wing.

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

As per usual you are staring at a particular tree while attempting to ignore the woods.
From the beginning of October the Public Health Authority could call it a moonshot for all the difference it made.


The infection disease doctor for the Uppsala region called it "a lockdown situation- but a local lockdown" and it was adopted by Uppsala on the 20th Oct. followed by four other regions within 9 days and shortly afterward by FAIK practically ever other region and there was nothing the Public Health Authority could do about it. Easy enough to just look on it as a local lockdown when it is just one region. Not so easy when all region are doing it. More like national would you not think ?


The only reason that the Swedish parliament had to sit in emergency session during Christmas was due to them letting the same legislation lapse at the end of June. I thought it a strange statement by a government minister when asked the reason for the reinstatement of that legislation being along the lines that it is better to have a particular tool in your toolbox when you need it, rather than having to go looking for one.
For me it just sounded a tad careless to just discard a tool and then realising you may indeed need it and then have to go and buy it again.


The face mask recommendations are another mish mash not being helped by the Public Health Authority. Some regional authorities are saying wear in crowded spaces and at all times on public transport, including Stockholm while the Public Health Authority are saying only between 7-9 am and 4-6pm on public transport.

Nope. That's just a load (maybe all) of regions recommending some new restrictions.

Here are the Oct restrictions.

Residents of the university city of Uppsala are advised:

to avoid using public transport whenever possible
not to spend time interacting with people they don't live with
work from home when possible
not to attend parties or social events
Shops and sports clubs will also be asked to do everything they can to avoid crowding.

The new local recommendations will be in place for the next fortnight.

So, a fortnight of nothing like Level 5 here. No Lockdown. No business closures.

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/7579119

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

Done a bit more digging around my posts have we ?
I do not have the time to deal with this post right now, but when I do I will deal with it and another recent one of yours in the same vein.

Btw, you are very much all over the place as to your assumption on my political persuasion. One post I am apparently "alt-right", the next I`m apparently "incredibly left wing.

Nope. You see yourself as left wing. I see you as adopting alt-right tactics, in pretty much every post.

I'm pretty consistent that you're a Troll.

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

Plagiarism is considered a violation of academic integrity.

An academic integrity you were attempting to attach to your own analysis in relation to Sweden from a report that made no such analysis.

The report was crystal clear as to the methodology, the parameters and the resulting findings on Sweden`s excess Covid deaths.

I think every college student knows what Plagiarism is.

Definition: the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Citing a research article and saying have a look lads is not plagiarism.

More of your BS.

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

Unfortunately their new case numbers are going in the opposite direction with positivity over 11%.

Actually, they're experiencing negative excess deaths at the moment, as of 7thFeb.

AlmightyCushion

sheepysheep wrote: »

Actually, they're experiencing negative excess deaths at the moment, as of 7thFeb.

The data for the 7th is for deaths registered up to the 19/02, which is only 12 days later. it takes time for deaths to show up in official figures. It is possible there were deaths on the 7th that have not been registered yet. It took until the end of January, possibly early February, before all deaths for 2020 were registered. Early January they had registered about 95,000 deaths for 2020, it is now at over 98,000. So, it is possible that the number of deaths registered for the 7th will increase over the coming couple of weeks.

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

Nope. You see yourself as left wing. I see you as adopting alt-right tactics, in pretty much every post.

I'm pretty consistent that you're a Troll.

You have no idea what my political persuasions are. Surprising as I would have thought from all your digging around of my posts you would at least have some idea.

But for the crack like, shall we have a look at your good self when it comes to this alt-right anti science you keep accusing me of being.

You support a strategy of immoral naturally acquired herd immunity, an authority that is not in agreement with its own Academy of Sciences or its own primary research institute on face masks and you also have an inane love of the Fake News Trump slogan. Very Trump like as well with baseless accusations (lies).

All that and you call me a Troll :eek:

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

I think every college student knows what Plagiarism is.

Definition: the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Citing a research article and saying have a look lads is not plagiarism.

More of your BS.

As I hadn`t a college student handy to share their vast in-depth knowledge of plagiarism in my earlier post, I went with, "A violation of academic integrity". Still stands

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

Actually, they're experiencing negative excess deaths at the moment, as of 7thFeb.

No idea what that has to do with my post. I referenced rising case numbers and rising positivity %.



Sweden had lower than normal deaths for the first 12 weeks of 2020, and as that graph shows, again later in the year, but ended up with 9,175 excess deaths (10.3%) where practically all were attributed to Covid-19 in The Economist report you posted.

Unless you believe that this pandemic is over and there will be no further deaths due to it, then I don`t see what relevance that graph has. Especially in relation to my post you are replying to.

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

Nope. That's just a load (maybe all) of regions recommending some new restrictions.

Here are the Oct restrictions.

Residents of the university city of Uppsala are advised:

to avoid using public transport whenever possible
not to spend time interacting with people they don't live with
work from home when possible
not to attend parties or social events
Shops and sports clubs will also be asked to do everything they can to avoid crowding.

The new local recommendations will be in place for the next fortnight.

So, a fortnight of nothing like Level 5 here. No Lockdown. No business closures.

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/7579119

The complete list as published by The Local se.

1. Avoid travelling on public transport.
2. Avoid unnecessary travel outside the region or part of a region affected.
3. Avoid visiting people in risk groups or who live in care facilities.
4. Avoid indoor environments where people gather, such as shops, shopping centres, museums, libraries, swimming pools and gyms. Only supermarkets and pharmacies are excluded.
5. Avoid meetings, concerts, lectures, sports training and competitions.
6. Avoid bars, restaurants and cafes.
7. Avoid physical contact with everyone apart from those you live with.
Jonan Nojd the infection disease doctor for Uppsala "They are rather far reaching this time.It`s more of a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown."

After the 19th Oct the PHA had little or no say in whether regions adopted these recommendations. A bit more than a local lockdown when a regions are involved.
20th October Uppsala adopted it`s on recommendations. Followed shortly afterwards by all other regions.
If any region dropped them after a fortnight then I am unaware of them doing so, but you appear to believe they did ?

Contrary to that list the PHA during that time nationally were telling the vulnerable it was now fine to again mingle with the general population, lowered restrictions on care home visits and were proposing to raise the number for public gathers to 500.
Not that difficult to see I believe why the regions went with their own recommendations rather than those of the PHA, or how it resulted in the government having to step up and the PHA being sidelined.

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

As I hadn`t a college student handy to share their vast in-depth knowledge of plagiarism in my earlier post, I went with, "A violation of academic integrity". Still stands

No, it doesn't.

Plagiarism is an actual thing. It's well understood.

"A violation of academic integrity" could mean anything, which is of course why you posted it.

It allows you to back out of your original accusation without withdrawing the remarks.

You should have asked your under 12's. I'd say a few of them would have explained the concept to you.

Please feel free to post what I plagiarised.

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

The complete list as published by The Local se.

1. Avoid travelling on public transport.
2. Avoid unnecessary travel outside the region or part of a region affected.
3. Avoid visiting people in risk groups or who live in care facilities.
4. Avoid indoor environments where people gather, such as shops, shopping centres, museums, libraries, swimming pools and gyms. Only supermarkets and pharmacies are excluded.
5. Avoid meetings, concerts, lectures, sports training and competitions.
6. Avoid bars, restaurants and cafes.
7. Avoid physical contact with everyone apart from those you live with.
Jonan Nojd the infection disease doctor for Uppsala "They are rather far reaching this time.It`s more of a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown."

After the 19th Oct the PHA had little or no say in whether regions adopted these recommendations. A bit more than a local lockdown when a regions are involved.
20th October Uppsala adopted it`s on recommendations. Followed shortly afterwards by all other regions.
If any region dropped them after a fortnight then I am unaware of them doing so, but you appear to believe they did ?

Contrary to that list the PHA during that time nationally were telling the vulnerable it was now fine to again mingle with the general population, lowered restrictions on care home visits and were proposing to raise the number for public gathers to 500.
Not that difficult to see I believe why the regions went with their own recommendations rather than those of the PHA, or how it resulted in the government having to step up and the PHA being sidelined.

So, all these business are still open. Thanks for clearing that up.

Sweden has always had restrictions.

No evidence of Government enforced lockdown submitted in that waffle.

A nation cannot be both in Lockdown and contemplating one. Unless its schrodinger's lockdown you're presenting a case for.

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

No, it doesn't.

Plagiarism is an actual thing. It's well understood.

"A violation of academic integrity" could mean anything, which is of course why you posted it.

It allows you to back out of your original accusation without withdrawing the remarks.

You should have asked your under 12's. I'd say a few of them would have explained the concept to you.

Please feel free to post what I plagiarised.

A violation of academic integrity is one of those "things" recognised as plagiarism. I have already posted how you attempted to do just that with The Economist data.

sheepysheep

charlie14 wrote: »

You have no idea what my political persuasions are. Surprising as I would have thought from all your digging around of my posts you would at least have some idea.

But for the crack like, shall we have a look at your good self when it comes to this alt-right anti science you keep accusing me of being.

You support a strategy of immoral naturally acquired herd immunity, an authority that is not in agreement with its own Academy of Sciences or its own primary research institute on face masks and you also have an inane love of the Fake News Trump slogan. Very Trump like as well with baseless accusations (lies).

All that and you call me a Troll :eek:

Fake news is just another expression for misinformation, spin, lies and deceit. Which is what you do in almost every post.

Feel free to post some of my lies.