Sweden avoiding lockdown

charlie14

sheepysheep wrote: »

Had a look. Those were two very longwinded posts.

Clarify what you want addressed and I will.

I already did.

I repeatedly challenged you on Eurostat which you ignored. You lied that I had, and given two of the post numbers it appears you could not find them.
Strange from someone so adapt at going through the posts of others and being hypocritical about theirs.


You have now further shown just how deceitful and dishonest a poster you are. After ignoring my many challenges to you repeatedly re-posting a section of one of my posts as to why you altered it, It now re-appears (Post #8715) as originally posted with no explanation other than your familiar attempts at deflection when caught out.


You have shown yourself repeatedly to be a lying deceitful posted with no boundaries as to how low a level you will go too attempting to further your agenda.
I have already wasted far to much time with you and have no interest on wasting any more on your rubbish.

charlie14

With a 14 day rolling average of over 540 per 100,000 nationally and high levels of test positivity it probably does not make much difference, but I would be skeptical of Sweden`s authorities believing they are experiencing a third wave for the last few weeks rather than just an upsurge from their present wave.

W.H.O. European Director Hans Kluge has said that after a 6 week decline in numbers for Europe, last week they began to rise giving cause to believe they were now experiencing a third wave.
If Sweden was to experience a third wave, then I would have thought it would be on the basis of the their first and second
where they were a few weeks behind most of Europe rather than a few weeks ahead ?

Bit cynical

humberklog wrote: »

Although it is a thread on Sweden, Norway and Finland keep getting thrown into the mix.

Both those countries have done exceptionally well. Does anyone know what they've done right? Were they early mask and distance adopters? Do they foriegn holiday less? Did they have swifter, harsher and prolonged lockdowns (for what "lockdown" means in that country), what did they do to protect the elderly and vulnerable?

I think European countries have more to learn about what to do from those countries than what not to do from Sweden.

The problem is that Norway and Finland have actually had fewer internal restrictions than Sweden, so if we're looking to justify lockdowns in Ireland, sadly, we have to look elsewhere.

They have low BAME populations compared to Sweden and many other European countries and they are more peripheral geographically. They put more restrictions on foreign arrivals than other countries and as we have seen earlier in the thread, they don't have the same tradition of Alpine skiiing in late winter which brought a lot of the virus into Sweden in the early days. These are some of the reasons they have been able to get away with lower restrictions than Sweden and still have fewer deaths.

Here's a chart of stringency of measures of the three countries and Ireland. Ireland is among the highest for restrictions in the EU and Finland the lowest. Finland also has the lowest rates of deaths in the EU from Covid.

biko

Sweden hitting 13K dead any day now.

Bit cynical

Sweden currently about the same number of deaths per capita as the EU as a whole. Sadly, however, the figure for the EU is rising more sharply than in Sweden at present.

humberklog

biko wrote: »

Sweden hitting 13K dead any day now.

Just over it now (13003) according to Worldometre.

charlie14

biko wrote: »

Sweden hitting 13K dead any day now.

They have already passed that figure of 13K.dead. By last Friday it was 13,003.

Bit cynical

Current daily deaths in Sweden lowest per capita in EU apart from Denmark, Finland and Cyprus. This despite, according to Biko, restrictions being far less than Ireland.

charlie14

Bit cynical wrote: »

Current daily deaths in Sweden lowest per capita in EU apart from Denmark, Finland and Cyprus. This despite, according to Biko, restrictions being far less than Ireland.

Of the 30 EU/EEA countries Sweden with a 14 day new cases rate of 527.64 per 100,000 is the 6th highest.

Ireland`s rate is 162.41 per 100,000, so Biko`s theory does stand up in regard to infections

biko

Anders Tegnell have received a lot of hate mail says FHM director Johan Carlson.

A Swedish paper factchecked a sample from December and noted that out of 87 so called hate mails that month to Anders perhaps 8 were could be considered containing hate, the rest were regular criticism.
One mail could be considered threatening.

When you are the figurehead for Sweden's strategy and have overseen all those dead, I would have thought more people would have written angry mails.
https://kvartal.se/artiklar/fhm-drar-hatkortet/

CalamariFritti

charlie14 wrote: »

They have already passed that figure of 13K.dead. By last Friday it was 13,003.

Which continues to be exactly in line with our deaths when aligned to the two countries' age profiles.

Boggles

biko wrote: »

Anders Tegnell have received a lot of hate mail says FHM director Johan Carlson.

A Swedish paper fact checked a sample from December and noted that out of 87 mails that month to Anders perhaps 8 were could be considered containing hate, the rest were regular criticism.
One mail could be considered threatening.

When you are the figurehead for Sweden's strategy and have overseen all those dead, I would have thought more people would have written angry mails.
https://kvartal.se/artiklar/fhm-drar-hatkortet/

I think the people who criticize Tegnell are the ones that take the brunt with help from state at times. Any acknowledgement of failure of Tegnell means failure of governance. Even at that, I can't see how that lad is still in a job.

Also it seems to be living through a period of bizarro world at the moment.

Stockholm school sends pupil home for wearing face mask

A mother has told The Local her 13-year-old son was banned from attending classes at an international school in the Stockholm region until he agreed to remove the mask he was wearing. She is now complaining to the local municipality.

“I was fuming,” she said. “I am deeply shocked by these measures and find it unacceptable. It should be a matter of choice. I don’t think one should be prevented from wearing a mask.”

The school explained in an emailed statement to The Local that although the school could not comment on individual cases, on the subject of masks, it followed the advice of the Stockholm region’s infectious diseases unit, Smittskydd Stockholm.

cnocbui

biko wrote: »

Anders Tegnell have received a lot of hate mail says FHM director Johan Carlson.

A Swedish paper factchecked a sample from December and noted that out of 87 so called hate mails that month to Anders perhaps 8 were could be considered containing hate, the rest were regular criticism.
One mail could be considered threatening.

When you are the figurehead for Sweden's strategy and have overseen all those dead, I would have thought more people would have written angry mails.
https://kvartal.se/artiklar/fhm-drar-hatkortet/

Perhaps the Swede's have more collective intelligence than to be blaming deaths during a pandemic on an official doing his best. If they and the western world had a bit more intelligence, any and all hatred would be directed at China.

humberklog

I think Sweden had about 146 deaths declared this week (Sun-Sun on Worldometer). Ireland at about 112. I know a lot of ours are from Jan and Feb too and I don't know if that's the case in Sweden.

On the face of it those numbers for Sweden aren't too bad and I feel are better than some posters here would have guessed at.

Importantly though according to Biko's post Tegnell and the Government still have the will of the people behind them to a large extent.
And that is an important and often overlooked point.

cnocbui

The Irish government doesn't have my will behind it for it's cowardly forever-lockdown totalitarian policies, dictated by the unelected.

PatrickSmithUS

Bit cynical wrote: »

No and to be honest it is speculation on my part. The indirect deaths I would expect to see over the next couple of years rather than in the immediate period of the lockdown itself.

A very strict lockdown I would actually expect to see fewer deaths during the lockdown itself not just Covid-19 deaths but road traffic accidents, other infections like influenza, workplace accidents etc.

This did not transpire sadly. Though the new strain might have more to do with that.

biko

humberklog wrote: »

Importantly though according to Biko's post Tegnell and the Government still have the will of the people behind them to a large extent.
And that is an important and often overlooked point.

That's not what my post was about.
It was that FHM claims to have received hate mail which when checked in fact turns out to be criticism and angry people venting.

This is classed as hate by FHM

"Now you are well happy Tegnell when an infection record is set every day. Congratulations! You are a disaster for Sweden and you must go Tegnell. Leave so more can survive. "

"You are ready for 40 years in prison or life"

The worst is

You should be executed live on TV

cnocbui

Was that last threat from the Irish clown who had to flee the country due to threats because of his criticisms of Swedens policies?

humberklog

biko wrote: »

That's not what my post was about.

Yeah, I should've been clearer in my post. I meant the content linked in your post would lead me to think that there's still no meaningful kickback against Tegnell/Gov.

StefanFal

cnocbui wrote: »

Was that last threat from the Irish clown who had to flee the country due to threats because of his criticisms of Swedens policies?

Just to note any threats he received were from Irish and other expats telling him to keep his mouth shut.

It was just too hard to take him serious. One post he is referring to Tegnell as "The Emperor with no clothes" and the next he's curling up to his Swedish husband with their "little fur ball" cat. Gobsh1te....

biko

humberklog wrote: »

Yeah, I should've been clearer in my post. I meant the content linked in your post would lead me to think that there's still no meaningful kickback against Tegnell/Gov.

At the start of the pandemic the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency (that have a lot of responsibility during the pandemic) had an approval rating of 62%.
In January 2021 it was 35%.

Tegnell's Public Health Agency went from 64% till 56%

But yeah, in times of crises people tend to stick to the current administration.
They really want to believe Tegnell and Co are doing a good job, the alternative is pretty scary.
https://omni.se/en-grymt-stor-majoritet-tycker-vi-gor-ett-bra-jobb/a/GaBlGx
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/kraftigt-fortroendetapp-for-msb-efter-eliassons-resa-/

AlekSmart

biko wrote: »

At the start of the pandemic the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency (that have a lot of responsibility during the pandemic) had an approval rating of 62%.
In January 2021 it was 35%.

Tegnell's Public Health Agency went from 64% till 56%

But yeah, in times of crises people tend to stick to the current administration.
They really want to believe Tegnell and Co are doing a good job, the alternative is pretty scary.
https://omni.se/en-grymt-stor-majoritet-tycker-vi-gor-ett-bra-jobb/a/GaBlGx
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/kraftigt-fortroendetapp-for-msb-efter-eliassons-resa-/

Do we have any similiar vox-pop on the HSE ?

biko

Seek and you shall find (maybe in the Irish threads).

humberklog

humberklog wrote: »

I think Sweden had about 146 deaths declared this week (Sun-Sun on Worldometer). Ireland at about 112. I know a lot of ours are from Jan and Feb too and I don't know if that's the case in Sweden.

When I posted this on Sunday Sweden hadn't updated their figures for a couple of days so today they've released new fatality numbers and as of today that stands at 13,172 and compare that to the 7th of March- 13,003.

So that's 169 recorded deaths in the last 9 days. Whilst that's not near "best in class" it's still not the kinda figures some doomsayers were predicting*.

*I won't say "hoping for" as that would be disingenuous but by the tone of some of the posts here it often reads that some posters certainly aren't wishing Sweden to do well from here on in.

TonyMaloney

humberklog wrote: »

When I posted this on Sunday Sweden hadn't updated their figures for a couple of days so today they've released new fatality numbers and as of today that stands at 13, 172 and compare that to the 7th of March- 13003.

So that's 169 recorded deaths in the last 9 days. Whilst that's not near "best in class" it's still not the kinda figures some doomsayers were predicting*.

*I won't say "hoping for" as that would be disingenuous but by the tone of some of the posts here it often reads that some posters certainly aren't wishing Sweden to do well from here on in.

Sweden reports deaths differently to the rest of the world.
Where we release numbers based on the date the HSE were notified about them, Sweden report the actual date the deaths occurred on.

This is a slow process, and depending on how bad things are, it can mean that they're up to one month behind.
They're currently about two weeks behind, and as cases have been rising steadily, as sure as night follows day, deaths will be rising too.

It's because of this reporting anomaly that Sweden's charts always look like their deaths are in decline, even when they're at their very worst.

cnocbui

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Sweden reports deaths differently to the rest of the world.
Where we release numbers based on the date the HSE were notified about them, Sweden report the actual date the deaths occurred on.

This is a slow process, and depending on how bad things are, it can mean that they're up to one month behind.
They're currently about two weeks behind, and as cases have been rising steadily, as sure as night follows day, deaths will be rising too.

It's because of this reporting anomaly that Sweden's charts always look like their deaths are in decline, even when they're at their very worst.

Cobblers.

charlie14

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Which continues to be exactly in line with our deaths when aligned to the two countries' age profiles.

Seriously are we back to this again.
Comparing Ireland to Sweden where it suits, while ignoring the fact that when the same age metric profile is applied to Sweden’s Nordic neighbours it is most definitely not “aligned”

Bit cynical

charlie14 wrote: »

Seriously are we back to this again.
Comparing Ireland to Sweden where it suits, while ignoring the fact that when the same age metric profile is applied to Sweden’s Nordic neighbours it is most definitely not “aligned”

However I don't think anyone has argued that the other Nordic countries have not done well. They've done very well along with Cyprus, Estonia, Greece. The problem is that you can't condemn Sweden simply for not being the very best in the EU.

The original prediction, remember, was that they were going to have multiples of the deaths of other EU countries if they did not lock down like those other countries. Only when this did not happen did critics move on to comparing Sweden with with the very best performing in the EU.

greyday

Looks like Sweden may be entering their 3rd wave.

Boggles

greyday wrote: »

Looks like Sweden may be entering their 3rd wave.

Looks like it.

https://www.thelocal.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/coronavirus-data-explorer-16-768x542.png