Tenants

kippy

Enter name here wrote: »

And yes with tenants staying home, there is considerable wear and tear on my properties. Is the government going to offer me a handout to cover the extra losses on my properties. I think not.

Extra wear and tear on things like carpets, furniture, boilers, hot water systems just to name a few.

The other option is to evict them and face less wear and tear?
Do landlords not have wear and tear priced in to rents?

neckedit

Enter name here wrote: »

My properties are owned outright, so no risk to my business nor income stream. And I make no bones about it, in this current climate and the laws to protect the tenant and barely any to protect my investments I make no concessions. I ask this of you, buying a new car are you going to pay the same price for the demo in yard or take it on the chin just because it has had a few kms put on it.

First of all let me say congrats on your success and owning all you own properties with no mortgages on them. That's pretty cool and I respect that.

That been said, you are in a phenomenal position to help a few people out if they need it and can prove this to you.
But you would choose not too over extra wear and tear in your investments.

Good luck counting your millions.

Enter name here

neckedit wrote: »

First of all let me say congrats on your success and owning all you own properties with no mortgages on them. That's pretty cool and I respect that.

That been said, you are in a phenomenal position to help a few people out if they need it and can prove this to you.
But you would choose not too over extra wear and tear in your investments.

Good luck counting your millions.

As i said I am neither your bank or family. Why do you and many others consider it a LL's responsibility to support you? I am genuinely intrigued by this. Is your supermarket offering you money off your shopping, is your garage offering you money off your fuel, is your health fund offering you cheaper premiums?
When other industries take such action then I may reconsider my position, until then it remains the same.

mrslancaster

pwurple wrote: »

I gave my residential tenants temporary rent breaks where their work was impacted by COVID19. I spoke to the bank about it on my side and have had the mortgage reduced for a few months (went to interest only). Passed that onto the tenant as a reduction. No, I don't expect them to repay it afterwards. ...

Just wondering how this works.

Afaik if there's any change in the tenancy it should be notified to RTB & that includes a change to the rent amount.
Does that mean the rent can't be increased back after Covid19 as according to the RTB records it would not comply with the 12 month & 4% rule?

is it not necessary to register any change with RTB during this?

Grumpypants

It depends on your own situation. If you can give a reduction and want to, then do. But remember if you take a mortgage break your mortgage increases. Either your payments or time increases either way it costs you.

If one of them lost their job they are getting the covid payment which is €350 a week (x 5 weeks) is €1750 tax free a month. And the second person is working. So even on modest a 27k is bringing in 2k a month.

So if a family with 3750 incoming and only 2.5k going out on bills and rent and saving hundreds on childcare are "struggling", think about it.

Dav010

neckedit wrote: »

First of all let me say congrats on your success and owning all you own properties with no mortgages on them. That's pretty cool and I respect that.

That been said, you are in a phenomenal position to help a few people out if they need it and can prove this to you.
But you would choose not too over extra wear and tear in your investments.

Good luck counting your millions.

It is easy, and hard to resist, the feeling of being morally superior when it comes to what you think other people should do with their money in situations like this. The op has a mortgage to pay, that is what is most important to the op, the bank does not accept good deeds enlieu of mortgage repayments

Ironically, I think the second biggest barrier to any rent reductions, after mortgage payment, is the RPZ regs. The legislation meant to prevent rent rises above a certain level, is now preventing rent reductions.

mrslancaster

Dav010 wrote: »

...Ironically, I think the second biggest barrier to any rent reductions, after mortgage payment, is the RPZ regs. The legislation meant to prevent rent rises above a certain level, is now preventing rent reductions.

Do you mean if a rent reduction is given then it can't be changed back - if the property is in an RPZ?

So any reduction must be registered with RTB & that's the new rent for the next 12 months & the basis for any future rent?

another poster said to have a written agreement that its a temporary reduction but would that make any difference to the RTB?

Dav010

mrslancaster wrote: »

Do you mean if a rent reduction is given then it can't be changed back - if the property is in an RPZ?

So any reduction must be registered with RTB & that's the new rent for the next 12 months & the basis for any future rent?

another poster said to have a written agreement that its a temporary reduction but would that make any difference to the RTB?

I guess the RTB will have to rule on that. If the reduction counts as a rent review and the lower rent as the new rental level on which future reviews are based, the LL gets shafted for their good deed.

PhilOssophy

Dav010 wrote: »

As famously said by Polonius, neither a borrower Nor a lender be.

You are in a lucky situation, which makes it easy for you to be generous with other people’s money. You can’t take a holiday from the bank, payments are just suspended for 3 months, but interest accrues over the remainder of the term, and the 3 months mortgage has to be paid back.

I am a borrower with a very large mortgage I will have you know.

Where was a being generous with other people's money - the OP asked a question and I answered it as I see it. Is that not the idea of his thread?

I am fully aware of the suspension of payments rules. I might need to take it up for all I know.

neckedit

Enter name here wrote: »

As i said I am neither your bank or family. Why do you and many others consider it a LL's responsibility to support you? I am genuinely intrigued by this. Is your supermarket offering you money off your shopping, is your garage offering you money off your fuel, is your health fund offering you cheaper premiums?
When other industries take such action then I may reconsider my position, until then it remains the same.

I am truly happy you are neither.

Banks have offered me a break, which I accepted but will continue to pay interest at my choice.

Fuel has come down from 128.9 a litre to 106.9 at my local station. A saving passed on by the vendors as barrel prices plummeted.

Grocery stores continue to have offers in store and let's face it in this climate are doing a pretty good job of keeping thing going.... but let's face it.... they will always make a few Bob.

Listen, I'm not saying your wrong and I'm right, this is just how I see the world at the minute.

James 007

Give them a rent reduction according to the RPZ Regs, I think 4% reduction, & tell them its a Covid reduction only, when the person has a job back raise it back the 4% again. But only give them this temporary reduction based on the below:

Scenario 1:
Based on your own calculation of what they are earning (one adult earning wage, one adult on covid payment of 350euro). If you feel they should be capable of paying then hold off on the above for now. If not give them the 4% reduction.

Scenario 2:
After 12 weeks the Covid payment ends. This is where they may have the difficultly in making payment. If you find that they are okay to make payment for Scenario 1, you could imply that the 4% reduction will kick in once Covid payment ceases.

pwurple

mrslancaster wrote: »

Just wondering how this works.

Afaik if there's any change in the tenancy it should be notified to RTB & that includes a change to the rent amount.
Does that mean the rent can't be increased back after Covid19 as according to the RTB records it would not comply with the 12 month & 4% rule?

is it not necessary to register any change with RTB during this?

I am not permanently making a change to rent, it is a temporary break and I expect to revert to normal afterwards. Extraordinary circumstances. No impact to the rental agreement etc. Faffing about with 4%’s is just playing silly beggars in my opinion. You’re just causing hardship to people and hiding behind beaurcracy. Good communication with the tenant, treating them fairly and expect to be treated fairly in return.


For those who mention wear and tear, I am actually seeing a little of that. More use on the kitchen appliances for example, so I do the usual, they buy the kettle or whatever and send me the receipt, then I reimburse them. A broken water heater too. The problem is the maintenance companies are also closed. So, I can’t get a repair done unless it is emergency. But the tenants are understanding of the circumstances.

Dav010

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Where was a being generous with other people's money - the OP asked a question and I answered it as I see it. Is that not the idea of his thread?

I am fully aware of the suspension of payments rules. I might need to take it up for all I know.

Here. Taking a mortgage “holiday” will cost the op, and a reduction in rent may not be reversible, meaning the op will be financially worse off and may effect ability to pay mortgage.

PhilOssophy wrote: »

If you need to take a holiday from the bank to help them out, I would say do it.

We are all in this together, it is tough for everyone at the moment but sacrifices are being made all round.
)

Dav010

James 007 wrote: »

Give them a rent reduction according to the RPZ Regs, I think 4% reduction, & tell them its a Covid reduction only, when the person has a job back raise it back the 4% again. But only give them this temporary reduction based on the below:

Scenario 1:
Based on your own calculation of what they are earning (one adult earning wage, one adult on covid payment of 350euro). If you feel they should be capable of paying then hold off on the above for now. If not give them the 4% reduction.

Scenario 2:
After 12 weeks the Covid payment ends. This is where they may have the difficultly in making payment. If you find that they are okay to make payment for Scenario 1, you could imply that the 4% reduction will kick in once Covid payment ceases.

Does the RTA or new emergency legislation allow for the new rent level to be viewed as temporary and reviewable within a 12 month period?

Graham

I don't think there's any need to adjust rents permanently yet, or rewrite contracts based on any formula.

The expectation appears to be more of a deferral of rent rather than a reduction:

The emergency measures being announced today complement those announced by the 5 main retail banks yesterday, in relation to the flexibility – such as 3 month mortgage breaks – which will be offered to those with buy-to-let mortgages whose tenants have been impacted by the virus. It is the Government’s expectation that landlords will pass that flexibility on their tenants. Tenants are encouraged to engage with their landlords as quickly as possible if they are facing difficulties.

While tenants will be expected to pay rent during this period, income supports and Rent Supplement is available to those struggling to do so. These supports are provided by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. Any rent arrears built up will be payable, but landlords have been asked to show forbearance and reach local arrangements in such circumstances.

Any other approach has potential to confuse

neckedit

Dav010 wrote: »

It is easy, and hard to resist, the feeling of being morally superior when it comes to what you think other people should do with their money in situations like this. The op has a mortgage to pay, that is what is most important to the op, the bank does not accept good deeds enlieu of mortgage repayments

Ironically, I think the second biggest barrier to any rent reductions, after mortgage payment, is the RPZ regs. The legislation meant to prevent rent rises above a certain level, is now preventing rent reductions.

I am not at all trying to be morally superior to any one.
And I'm not telling anyone what they should do. I am simply saying if we all get some breaks let's pass them on. Personally I have accepted a break from a large personal loan from the bank. This ensures I can pay my rent... I suppose there is a certain Irony in that as I may come across anti landlord, which I am not BTQ

cannotlogin

I think you get what you give.

My landlord never raised my rent in the last number of years. I suspect mainly because I've never given him a minute hassle.

There's no way in hell I won't be paying him the full rent during this period, even if it means dipping into savings.

bigpink

bigpink wrote: »

If one good thing of this Covid19 i hope it ruins nasty smug landlords

How would it without thousands of renters dropping dead. In reality people still need to live inside.

I rented a property out for a few years, never again and anyone moving that asks me I tell them the same thing, how much stress for limited return to do want?

mrslancaster

mrslancaster wrote: »

Do you mean if a rent reduction is given then it can't be changed back - if the property is in an RPZ?

So any reduction must be registered with RTB & that's the new rent for the next 12 months & the basis for any future rent?

another poster said to have a written agreement that its a temporary reduction but would that make any difference to the RTB?

The last paragraph as a guestimate. If you reduce, it's a new agreement and probable what any future increase will be based on.

JimmyVik

OP. Given whats going on at the moment why not give them a break.
I understand you cannot reduce the rent or you might be stuck on a lower rent and you never know what legislation to screw you over is around the corner.

So why not tell them they can use 1 fifth of their deposit for the next 5 months.
So they are paying the full rent but only 4/5 of it is coming out of their pocket at the moment.
After 5 months they have zero deposit left which then has to be built back up by them.
Then tell them they can build the deposit back up for the following 10 months after that.
eg full rent plus 10% for 10 months. And then their deposit is back.

That way nobody is out of pocket and they got a 5 month reduction which they make up over the following 10 months and you are all back square.

Obviously choose figures that suit you and get it all in writing and record every payment etc.

vr7

vr7 wrote: »

Have an issue where tenants have asked for a rent reduction.

A family of 4 live in the property which comprises of 2 adults and 2 kids. They are great tenants who look after the property and never miss a payment. 1 of the adults has lost their job due to covid 19.

Should I reduce rent wit a review after a few months, freeze rent and look for all arrears to be paid once covid issue is over.

Any help would be appreciated.

Personally and it's only that, I would offer to take something off their hands or maybe, maybe repay their shopping or something.

I don't say that as I think it's the only option or even morally correct, I say it as good tenants are worth making an effort to keep so from a pure business point I think it's worth it.

Morally, the covid payment may not be covering the person's income abd the soul could always use a little good will and karma but of course we all know landlords don't actually have souls

Salary Negotiator

If the tenant has lost their job then they should be apply for and claiming all social welfare payments they are eligible for first. If, having claimed these, they are still unable to afford the rent then the landlord should look at a temporary reduction.

At the minute the way option is to ask the landlord to reduce the rent (no application forms etc), but the supports are there for a reason and should be availed of.

RinusLaptop76

Enter name here wrote: »

My properties are owned outright, so no risk to my business nor income stream. And I make no bones about it, in this current climate and the laws to protect the tenant and barely any to protect my investments I make no concessions. I ask this of you, buying a new car are you going to pay the same price for the demo in yard or take it on the chin just because it has had a few kms put on it.

Like many other businesses, also slumlords will see their business//income being affected by this crisis. Greed is rooted deep apparently.

overkill602

A lot of LLs do remember the last time the rents dropped SW sent letters to it recipients to ask the LL to reduce due to market conditions i saw one of the letters.
then as rents started to rise a 2 year freeze, rent control and a host of other anti LL regulation even threats to bang up LLs

That elephant is still in the room especially with the formation of a new govt history has a chance to repeat itself vilifying LLs is still popular doesnt cost votes.

They may need them more because there will be no money to build social housing dont want to think what that might bring maybe we will need super cockoo funds to come in on free land deals with zero taxes, anything is better than our home grown slum LL

the landlord has to be profession and protect his business there are more taxes and risks than there was before the last crash

I just paid €1100 a replacement immersion water tank in normal times it would have been half that the contractor had to provide protective gear, getting a quick replacement unit cost 2x and more man hours.

Del2005

Dav010 wrote: »

Does the RTA or new emergency legislation allow for the new rent level to be viewed as temporary and reviewable within a 12 month period?

This could be a big deal. If a landlord has done a rent review is it even legal for them to do a 2nd one now even to reduce the rent? With the way the RTB goes I could see tenants getting large payouts for illegal rent reviews if the landlord gives them a reduction.

Graham

I think a landlord would be a bit daft to do a rent review. Allow a deferral of rent if necessary

pwurple

Del2005 wrote: »

This could be a big deal. If a landlord has done a rent review is it even legal for them to do a 2nd one now even to reduce the rent? With the way the RTB goes I could see tenants getting large payouts for illegal rent reviews if the landlord gives them a reduction.

Don't do a rent review.

Rent remains the same , temporary measure is in place.

Del2005

pwurple wrote: »

Don't do a rent review.

Rent remains the same , temporary measure is in place.

Would the RTB agree with that though? A temporary rent reduction is a review.

Edgware

In the anti landlord policy pursued by P.R.T.B. I wouldnt reduce the rent as on the lease as P.R.T.B. will hammer you on the 4% if you attempt to increase it again.
However there is nothing to stop landlords coming to informal agreements with tenants that would give some relief. Good tenants are hard to find and it might be worth it to show some flexibility rather than end up with an empty property

Mrs OBumble

Del2005 wrote: »

Would the RTB agree with that though? A temporary rent reduction is a review.

Doesn't have to be a rent reduction: just accept part payments and have a verbal agreement that you won't pursue arrears up to a certain level.