Everything will change after Coronavirus

Greentopia

Liana Billions Dwarf wrote: »

7th for happytimes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report), lowest of all Nordics, and behind Ned & Swiss.

Yes still comfortably within the top ten though and will remain so IMO for many reasons outlined here: https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2020/the-nordic-exceptionalism-what-explains-why-the-nordic-countries-are-constantly-among-the-happiest-in-the-world/

Stockholm has also dropped out of the top20 cities in recent times for the 1st time in decades. Oh and the women only music festival (for protection from assault - dozens happened back in 2017), has now been found guilty of discrimination against others.

Stockholm is still a wonderful city in my experience and a joy to travel around in. I have friends living there, some with kids who tell me they wouldn't move back here to high rents and childcare costs. It's clean and efficiently run and gets 10% of European tourists.
I think some of the problems there are down to the Moderaterna right wing governance and mishandling of social problems, especially in the immigrant populated suburbs. This has caused an increase in support for the populist SD party.

Liana Billions Dwarf wrote: »

2019 'Blasts' are up 60% from previous year, and complex social problems have emmerged across many deprived areas, for which there are no simple soloutions according to the (new) task force establised to deal with this new issue. Demnark reinstated border checks not long ago, due to security issues.

It sounded like a grand place back in the 80/90's, these days, still not really bad, but also not as good as is sometimes painted.

Yes like I said it's not perfect and has it's problems, and there are reasons why I don't want to grow old there, but many problems have been sensationalised and downright lies told about to demonise the country and discredit it's generally left leaning policies, in the US in particular.

Integration of immigrants and refugees was a problem even back in the 90s when I first weren't there.
I think if they can successfully get though the present corona crisis without massive loss of life while saving their economy the Social Democrats will reap the rewards in the next election and be returned again to power.

freshpopcorn

Things will settle down after a while.
Some will fret for ages but they always have something on their minds.

Celebrities will probably try and bring a book out it. I can’t see an end to celebrity culture.

Green issues will be interesting people will probably start going on holidays once they can afford to again. I would question the cruise industry.
All this calling for no packaging on food products might be forgotten.

Hairdressers and barbers will have a surge but I would question will they be as much spent on weekly trip to the hairdressers, nail salon, etc.

I know some people and the go to cafes and restaurants several times a week/day. I think some of these people will learn they can manage at home.

AllForIt

Arghus wrote: »

Things won't be same after this.

Governments across the world are spending billions upon billions to fight this and at the same time economies are retracting at a furious rate that has never been seen before in history.

This is going to have a profound effect on economic, monetary and social policy across the entire globe, even if it all ends quicker than could otherwise be expected. To think otherwise is be oblivious to reality.

OP here.

I was not suggesting there won't be consequences due to coronavirus, as many on the thread have alluded to in respect of the economy and so on. Of course there will be, small businesses being the worst hit I'd imagine, conceivably some going under.

Neither was I suggesting that I hope no good comes of it either. If ppl can work from home great, but I'm imagine those would be mostly IT jobs where there isn't much difference between sitting in front of a computer at home than in an office. Note some ppl might not actually like this as beneficial it would be in terms of reducing work traffic. Some might of course for practical reasons.

What I was specifically talking about is the kind of commentary I've seen of late, for e.g., Kevin McGuire a UK journalist and no surprise a Labour man, called for an immediate UK election when the virus has passed. I've no doubt whatsoever that he was absolutely serious, and his rational was that somehow the public mood has changed about how the country should be run.

Sorry Kevin, but the virus doesn't affect one's mental faculties, unfortunately for you.

ILoveYourVibes

Perhaps directly after. Some things like wearing a mask etc shaking hands.

But we have had pandemics before. Things did not change.

Greentopia

pgj2015 wrote: »

the 20k comment was just about how i am now happier than i ever was working for someone else. i believe anyone with a bit of cop on and hard work can become rich by working for themselves.

Yes but you said your goal was to become rich. You don't get rich on a salary of 20k in this country.

I work for myself (as well as a small p/t job working for someone else) and could earn more if I wanted, but I value my quality of life more than I do earning more money. To earn more means more time at work and if I work 7 days a week as you say you do then that effects my quality of life. For me there's more to life than work. A lot more. Money is just a necessary evil for me in order to live the life I want to live.
I choose to want less so that I don't have to work as much as I would if I wanted a lavish lifestyle. It's a trap that I have no intention of getting into.

Time is far more valuable than money. Time with my fiancee and friends. Time gardening and reading and knitting. Time travelling. No amount of money can replace lost time.

And it's a fallacy that anyone can become rich if they just work hard enough. There's such a thing as unearned privilege and generational wealth that makes it a lot easier for some to become wealthy. Irish society is not a level playing field.

Also some people have restrictions not of their own making that prevent them from "becoming rich" even if they wanted to. Being born into generational poverty infers many disadvantages such as developmental and educational from the moment children are born that decreases the likelihood of being able succeed in life. Not make it impossible, just far less likely.

Also family problems or relatives that need looking after, disabilities and health problems, lack of access to startup facilities... it's not as black and white as "work hard and you will become rich".

ILoveYourVibes

Greentopia wrote: »

Time is far more valuable than money. Time with my fiancee and friends. Time gardening and reading and knitting. Time travelling. No amount of money can replace lost time..

This is true. But you would be mistaken to think a lot of rich people don't have as much or more free time as yourself.

Greentopia

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This is true. But you would be mistaken to think a lot of rich people don't have as much or more free time as yourself.

Not from what I've seen and heard in my half century on this planet, but am sure there must be some who are not workaholics who don't get to enjoy the fruits of their labours.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Yeah... moving stuff from one place to another may be physically demanding but doesn't mean that the amount you sweat equates to how much you contribute to a company.

Move to Russia if you want communism.

Russia? What decade are you living in?

pgj2015

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes but you said your goal was to become rich. You don't get rich on a salary of 20k in this country.

I work for myself (as well as a small p/t job working for someone else) and could earn more if I wanted, but I value my quality of life more than I do earning more money. To earn more means more time at work and if I work 7 days a week as you say you do then that effects my quality of life. For me there's more to life than work. A lot more. Money is just a necessary evil for me in order to live the life I want to live.
I choose to want less so that I don't have to work as much as I would if I wanted a lavish lifestyle. It's a trap that I have no intention of getting into.

Time is far more valuable than money. Time with my fiancee and friends. Time gardening and reading and knitting. Time travelling. No amount of money can replace lost time.

And it's a fallacy that anyone can become rich if they just work hard enough. There's such a thing as unearned privilege and generational wealth that makes it a lot easier for some to become wealthy. Irish society is not a level playing field.

Also some people have restrictions not of their own making that prevent them from "becoming rich" even if they wanted to. Being born into generational poverty infers many disadvantages such as developmental and educational from the moment children are born that decreases the likelihood of being able succeed in life. Not make it impossible, just far less likely.

Also family problems or relatives that need looking after, disabilities and health problems, lack of access to startup facilities... it's not as black and white as "work hard and you will become rich".

as i said the 20k was me saying i would be happier making that self employed than 2 million as an employee, it was related to someone saying that the wealthy people they know arent happy. the 20k was made up.

I still believe anyone can become rich that came from nothing, a lot of people get rich that way. anyone with a good head on their shoulders and drive can be rich if they put their mind to it. you can agree or disagree but the proof is all around you if you look.

mrsWhippy

Greentopia wrote: »

Time is far more valuable than money. Time with my fiancee and friends. Time gardening and reading and knitting. Time travelling. No amount of money can replace lost time.

Well can you go back and warn them in Wuhan?

jill_valentine

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Perhaps directly after. Some things like wearing a mask etc shaking hands.

But we have had pandemics before. Things did not change.

The Black Death very famously heralded massive social shifts, it essentially ended the feudal system that had lasted about a thousand years until then.

Here is an article about the long term effects of Spanish Flu -
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-spanish-flu-economic-lessons-to-learn-from-the-last-truly-global-pandemic-133176

- And in more recent history, HIV/AIDS had major sociopolitical effects across the western world that we tend to forget simply because we now take the post AIDs world for granted.

TuringBot47

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Russia? What decade are you living in?

You'll have to explain that one...
Unless you're mixing up the Soviet Union with Russia.

ILoveYourVibes

jill_valentine wrote: »

The Black Death very famously heralded massive social shifts, it essentially ended the feudal system that had lasted about a thousand years until then.

Here is an article about the long term effects of Spanish Flu -
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-spanish-flu-economic-lessons-to-learn-from-the-last-truly-global-pandemic-133176

- And in more recent history, HIV/AIDS had major sociopolitical effects across the western world that we tend to forget simply because we now take the post AIDs world for granted.

I stand corrected

FloatingVoter

jill_valentine wrote: »

The Black Death very famously heralded massive social shifts, it essentially ended the feudal system that had lasted about a thousand years until then.

Here is an article about the long term effects of Spanish Flu -
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-spanish-flu-economic-lessons-to-learn-from-the-last-truly-global-pandemic-133176

- And in more recent history, HIV/AIDS had major sociopolitical effects across the western world that we tend to forget simply because we now take the post AIDs world for granted.

Yeah, circa 1983 AIDS was a gay disease isolated to them in the big bad cities. It spread of course through shared needles and hookups into middle America, Middle Ireland, middle ****ing everywhere. The intolerance and base ignorance kickstarts a liberal mindset that rocked every generation. The ones that got Obama elected, Equality and Choice here. That is in the living memory of anyone over the age of 40.
I saw my own father turn from an old fashioned homophobe into someone willing to listen to David Norris without shouting at the TV in the space of 10 years.

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

I think the break from all this stuff will have the opposite effect to what you propose. Levels of consumerism and debauchery are going to be off the scale when this is over. There is a massive amount of pent up energy and emotion thats going to be released and people aren't go to release it by living within their means and recycling all their waste. Capitalism is human nature.

Yeah I'm fearing that this is the way it's going to go alright. We're not going to all come out of this with measured heads singing Kumbayah as if we just defeated the aliens.

Many people are going to come out of this feeling a debt owed to them - "I put my life on hold for X months, fúcking sure I'm going to go mad now".

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah I'm fearing that this is the way it's going to go alright. We're not going to all come out of this with measured heads singing Kumbayah as if we just defeated the aliens.

Many people are going to come out of this feeling a debt owed to them - "I put my life on hold for X months, fúcking sure I'm going to go mad now".

Funnily enough, the country would shut down if all the reopened at once. Everyone would be on the piss.

FloatingVoter

Deleted User wrote: »

Funnily enough, the country would shut down if all the reopened at once. Everyone would be on the piss.

I started five minutes ago.

zerosugarbuzz

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Yeah, circa 1983 AIDS was a gay disease isolated to them in the big bad cities. It spread of course through shared needles and hookups into middle America, Middle Ireland, middle ****ing everywhere. The intolerance and base ignorance kickstarts a liberal mindset that rocked every generation. The ones that got Obama elected, Equality and Choice here. That is in the living memory of anyone over the age of 40.
I saw my own father turn from an old fashioned homophobe into someone willing to listen to David Norris without shouting at the TV in the space of 10 years.

Goo god, from bad to worse, I feel for you!

FloatingVoter

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Goo god, from bad to worse, I feel for you!

Thanks for your concern. Now read a history book. AIDS wasn't and still isn't funny. It's impact on peoples attitudes was the only positive thing that arose from it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

TuringBot47 wrote: »

You'll have to explain that one...
Unless you're mixing up the Soviet Union with Russia.

I think you are. Why would someone move to Russia if they wanted communism when Russia isn't communist?

TuringBot47 wrote: »

That's what capitalism supply and demand does.
Cleaners and drivers can be easily replaced.
People with specialist skills less so.
But with the state enforcing a legal minimum hourly rate.

So in some cases, unrestrained capitalism needs to be curtailed eg. with monopoly commissions.

Which may be one of the downfalls of capitalism - a specialist skill is not nessecarily an essential one.

One of the other reasons people don't take up these jobs is pride and when you list them as being "easily replaced", you leave them open to being abused financially by their employers and more likely to quie and go back on the dole. Or less likely to come off it.

If you pay peanuts, as they say...

Sunny Disposition

plodder wrote: »

Which was it in your case?

Luck, definitely.

justmehere

AllForIt wrote: »

No it won't, life will go back to normal.

Socialists and leftists seem to think that society will change in some fundamental way when this is all over.

It's always the politically disadvantaged that would suggest something like this. They are currently wetting themselves to use this crisis to further their political objectives.

Any changes will be trivial. No seismic change.

Can't wait to get back to normal.

It's already starting to go back to normal...
"Clothes retailer Next has been forced to stop taking orders on its website this morning (14/04/20) just hours after the site reopened.

Its website exceeded capacity at 8.30am today and the company confirmed it will not be taking orders until tomorrow."
So yes, while the likes of Eddie Hobbs et al. will milk the fear factor, the hard facts show that demand has not evaporated. All reports (IMF etc.) indicate things will be pretty much back to normal by next year.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8215645/Next-says-start-selling-online-Tuesday.html

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO

JL555

justmehere wrote: »

It's already starting to go back to normal...
"Clothes retailer Next has been forced to stop taking orders on its website this morning (14/04/20) just hours after the site reopened.

Its website exceeded capacity at 8.30am today and the company confirmed it will not be taking orders until tomorrow."
So yes, while the likes of Eddie Hobbs et al. will milk the fear factor, the hard facts show that demand has not evaporated. All reports (IMF etc.) indicate things will be pretty much back to normal by next year.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8215645/Next-says-start-selling-online-Tuesday.html

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO

Oh yes, good Ol' Eddie is emerging from the long grass rubbing his hands together, another fortune to be made from the hungry public.

AllForIt

https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/coronavirus/2020/04/coronavirus-moment-change-our-way-life

Another example of the type of nonsense I'm seeing. The author is the same man I was talking about on the Everyday Racism thread, who try's to convince everyone they are subconsciously racist. :rolleyes: