How will schools be able to go back in September?

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

Yes and who covers this 48 hours - SET - two days taken from those children who need it the most when 1 teacher is absent. This doesn’t a/c for any other illness with longer absences.

So leave the schools closed for 4 years then?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Presume if there is a case in a 2nd level school, the school would have to shut. They're all going to mix with options etc.

Primary level it might be easier to keep them apart as each group doesn't share numerous teachers or rooms

?

wirelessdude01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And get tested and get the all clear within 48 hours if not covid

Have you read the document? We aren't allowed in if we have a sniffle. Nothing to do with Covid.

tscul32

seamus wrote: »

It really seems like our principals have been doing nothing to prepare.

I know 3 principals and all of them have been working on plans since well before the summer break. Ranging from trying to source sanitiser before every school in the country is looking for it, ordering ppe just in case it's required, to planning a partial return and trying to ensure that they can work with the sister school to ensure that siblings would be all in/out on the same days. Now ppe is not required and a full return is the plan so those plans were a waste of time. These principals have run themselves ragged over the past few months.

jimmytwotimes 2013

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Presume if there is a case in a 2nd level school, the school would have to shut. They're all going to mix with options etc.

Primary level it might be easier to keep them apart as each group doesn't share numerous teachers or rooms

?

There should be no need to close a full school due to a single case. Just isolate their contacts

wirelessdude01

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Have you read the document? We aren't allowed in if we have a sniffle. Nothing to do with Covid.

If it’s just a sniffle it will be gone in 48 hours. If it’s more that that shouldn’t be in school anyway

lulublue22

Deleted User wrote: »

So leave the schools closed for 4 years then?

Christ almighty - that’s exactly what I am advocating :rolleyes: Since when is the choice an either or - full return or close schools for 4 years .

Can you show where anyone is advocating the schools to close for 4 years. Pure emotive nonsense. Posters can point out flaws in plans without that equating to keeping the schools closed for 4 years

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

Christ almighty - that’s exactly what I am advocating :rolleyes: Since when is the choice an either or - full return or close schools for 4 years .

Can you show where anyone is advocating the schools to close for 4 years. Pure emotive nonsense. Posters can point out flaws in plans without that equating to keeping the schools closed for 4 years

We won’t find all the risk mitigation strategies until we go back. It’s a leap, but it has to be taken

jimmytwotimes 2013

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There should be no need to close a full school due to a single case. Just isolate their contacts

The contacts at 2nd level aren't manageable.

Johnny in first year shares a room with 23 classmates, he has 30 different classmates across his options, he shares a room with 8 different teachers each day and 15 in total during the week, those teachers then teach their classes (meeting on average 150 students each week themselves), he walks the corridors between each class, eats in the canteen, shares toilet facilties and arrives on a bus with 55 other students from his locality each morning.

Trace that

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

In a sense of isolation it’s not a second wave. Plus they f’d up suppression.And the WHO don’t agree, and they know more than a 6 year old

Yeah WHO got everything right ahead of time.

• human to human transmission
• airborne transmission
• DEFINITION of a pandemic

And how did they fvck up suppression?
Oh yeah, you are right.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1278676127687598081?s=20

Peter Flynt

Deleted User wrote: »

There should be no need to close a full school due to a single case. Just isolate their contacts

Which would be virtually everyone in a secondary school as they change teachers and classmates every 40 minutes to an hour.

drunkmonkey

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Have you read the document? We aren't allowed in if we have a sniffle. Nothing to do with Covid.

It's winter there will be sniffles, it will close schools down, the creches have had to recognize there's allergies and sniffles and not exclude kids because of them, schools will have to do the same or they may just call a halt to it now as there only messing.

lulublue22

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Presume if there is a case in a 2nd level school, the school would have to shut. They're all going to mix with options etc.

Primary level it might be easier to keep them apart as each group doesn't share numerous teachers or rooms

?

Easier to keep apart in school but with up to 32 in a class no SD in class possible. Then for those children on school transport no way to keep separate from other classes due to space constraints. Also guidelines at primary indicate SET will be in and out of classes supervising for absent class teachers. As far as I can tell from reading the guidelines the gov’s response seems to be based on tbe theory that children don’t transmit the disease to any great extent and that air bourne transmission is not a cause for concern.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

If it’s just a sniffle it will be gone in 48 hours. If it’s more that that shouldn’t be in school anyway

This actually reminds me of my school days.

Some people just don't get it.

IGNORE LIST

jimmytwotimes 2013

lulublue22 wrote: »

Easier to keep apart in school but with up to 32 in a class no SD in class possible. Then for those children on school transport no way to keep separate from other classes due to space constraints. Also guidelines at primary indicate SET will be in and out of classes supervising for absent class teachers. As far as I can tell from reading the guidelines the gov’s response seems to be based on tbe theory that children don’t transmit the disease to any great extent and that air bourne transmission is not a cause for concern.

Forgot buses and 30+ in alot of classes. Tnx

lulublue22

Deleted User wrote: »

We won’t find all the risk mitigation strategies until we go back. It’s a leap, but it has to be taken

I agree to an extent I just wish we didn’t take such a big leap. Look if it all goes well then I’ll be the first to hold my hand up. I really don’t want to go back to closed schools. I’d prefer a more gradual opening with the intent to steadily increase attendance pretty much like our lock down reopening. Either way I will never agree to SET being used to cover absences. That’s a disgrace.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah WHO got everything right ahead of time.

• human to human transmission
• airborne transmission
• DEFINITION of a pandemic

And how did they fvck up suppression?
Oh yeah, you are right.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1278676127687598081?s=20

Human transmission was known prior to the who being involved. Airborne transmission has been acknowledged but also acknowledged as only being a small factor in transmissions. If it was only airborne, based on what we know, this would be far less serious as it would be far less infectious

kingbhome

Is it possible that if one kid gets covid in school, the school gets closer down and anyone in that class or has had close contact with that kid will all have to be taken to quarantine, and all definitely vaccinated!

Peter Flynt

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Which would be virtually everyone in a secondary school as they change teachers and classmates every 40 minutes to an hour.

A contact is 15 minutes at 2 meters. As long as sanitation is good why would it be different for secondary school kids?

Lillyfae

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

The contacts at 2nd level aren't manageable.

Johnny in first year shares a room with 23 classmates, he has 30 different classmates across his options, he shares a room with 8 different teachers each day and 15 in total during the week, those teachers then teach their classes (meeting on average 150 students each week themselves), he walks the corridors between each class, eats in the canteen and arrive on a bus with 55 other students from his locality each morning.

Trace that

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Which would be virtually everyone in a secondary school as they change teachers and classmates every 40 minutes to an hour.

Obviously this has to stop as we don't have the luxury of this anymore. Do the subject in blocks instead of 40 minutes at a time. Don't school administration make timetables for the students anyway once or twice a year? This is not a problem.

Some of the issues being raised here

Peter Flynt

Deleted User wrote: »

A contact is 15 minutes at 2 meters. As long as sanitation is good why would it be different for secondary school kids?

40 minutes > 15 minutes

lulublue22

Deleted User wrote: »

A contact is 15 minutes at 2 meters. As long as sanitation is good why would it be different for secondary school kids?

Please tell me you don’t still believe that schools with their current class sizes can implement the 2 m distance rule? A full return to school in Ireland has negated ( in many cases a 1 m SD don’t mind say 2m. Also masks are not compulsory nor is temp check.

wirelessdude01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If it’s just a sniffle it will be gone in 48 hours. If it’s more that that shouldn’t be in school anyway

Point being that teachers would have always went in with and just worked away with sniffles and coughs and colds. I know myself I had something or other from pretty much the end of Sept to Christmas last year. I missed one day as I just couldn't have made it though that Friday. Other teachers are similar. We aren't allowed this year. Could be 4 teachers out the same days and no subs to be got. These are the practicalities of the situation we have been presented with.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

And get tested and get the all clear within 48 hours if not covid

You think in December the turn around time for a test will be 48 hours?

downthemiddle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So leave the schools closed for 4 years then?

I’m assuming you are being deliberately obtuse at this stage. However for the benefit of all the experts who haven’t read the document I’ll try once again.
At primary level when a teacher is absent, covid or otherwise,it has become common practice to split the class amongst other classes. With pods and bubbles this is no longer acceptable. The DES have created 180 positions to cover these absences in just over 400 schools. The other 2900 schools will have to make alternative arrangements.
The DES have instructed schools, when a sub is not available, to use Special Education Teachers to cover these absences. I believe this is ethically and morally wrong.
Perhaps those advocates for the DES plan for returning to school can explain why this is acceptable.

Peter Flynt

Peter Flynt wrote: »

40 minutes > 15 minutes

Not if they are different classes

jimmytwotimes 2013

Lillyfae wrote: »

Some of the issues being raised here

What would be your main concerns for schools returning in the Irish context?

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

Please tell me you don’t still believe that schools with their current class sizes can implement the 2 m distance rule? A full return to school in Ireland has negated ( in many cases a 1 m SD don’t mind say 2m. Also masks are not compulsory nor is temp check.

Contacts within a class will be isolated. May be possible to create pods within a class also but will be location dependent. The suggestion however is that a single case will take out a school

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

You think in December the turn around time for a test will be 48 hours?

Less I’d say.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Less I’d say.

Please do explain?

downthemiddle

downthemiddle wrote: »

I’m assuming you are being deliberately obtuse at this stage. However for the benefit of all the experts who haven’t read the document I’ll try once again.
At primary level when a teacher is absent, covid or otherwise,it has become common practice to split the class amongst other classes. With pods and bubbles this is no longer acceptable. The DES have created 180 positions to cover these absences in just over 400 schools. The other 2900 schools will have to make alternative arrangements.
The DES have instructed schools, when a sub is not available, to use Special Education Teachers to cover these absences. I believe this is ethically and morally wrong.
Perhaps those advocates for the DES plan for returning to school can explain why this is acceptable.

So what’s your solution then if not to leave schools closed? Compromises and difficult choices will be required. But the alternative is not to open the schools at all

Lillyfae

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

What would be your main concerns for schools returning in the Irish context?

People who don't want them to be opening very loosely following guidelines hoping that there will be another outbreak. Or not bothering at all so they can point the finger and say "I told you so"

xhomelezz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Contacts within a class will be isolated. May be possible to create pods within a class also but will be location dependent. The suggestion however is that a single case will take out a school

So you'll have 30 kids in class, 1 m SD if lucky, no proper air ventilation, no masks sitting there for 40 minutes. You split them to say 6 pods by 5 students. One of them will be positive in that environment.. how many out of 30 have a chance to contract virus? 1 pod?? You can send home all of them.

lulublue22

Deleted User wrote: »

Contacts within a class will be isolated. May be possible to create pods within a class also but will be location dependent. The suggestion however is that a single case will take out a school

I’m not sure where you are getting a single case could take out a school ? I would expect if covid is as transmissible as public health experts claim , our class size and poorly ventilated classes then it will take out a class. I presume after that it’s potential to spread will depend on factors such as child on school transport , siblings etc at primary. In secondary movement across pods due to subject choice may result in a wider spread.? who knows.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Please do explain?

Because currently we are averaging just over 24 hours, and have capacity to complete 100k per week. Because the measures that remain in place and the wider public awareness will prevent the type of surge seen in March. Less opportunity for infections less infections. Because the same measures that reduce COVID will also reduce other respiratory infection such has already been seen in the Australian flu season.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-23/coronavirus-restrictions-cause-flu-cases-to-drop-australia/12480190

#Science

lulublue22

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’m not sure where you are getting a single case could take out a school ? I would expect if covid is as transmissible as public health experts claim , our class size and poorly ventilated classes then it will take out a class. I presume after that it’s potential to spread will depend on factors such as child on school transport , siblings etc at primary. In secondary movement across pods due to subject choice may result in a wider spread.? who knows.

The suggestion being made here was one case could take out an entire school. I was arguing it doesn’t need to. Schools will need to keep detailed records though

Murple

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-52550470

According to this, they have groups of 12 children.

"Danish education law stipulates a maximum class size of 28 students for primary and lower secondary schools." That's not far off our numbers.

https://pure.au.dk/ws/files/32351405/bingley-jensen-walker-classsize-asb.pdf

So we need double the capacity to follow the Danish model.

Reading the article you linked, you'll find that the maximum is 28 (there is no maximum in this country) but generally a new class is started at 24 pupils. That's why they have 12 pupils in as half the class. In this country, 28 would be considered 'one of the smaller classes' rather than the biggest a class could get.

khalessi

lulublue22 wrote: »

Yes because the only illness any teacher is going to get will be covid. :rolleyes:
If you think supervision of classes by SET is not going to be necessary you are deluded.

Speaking as an SET in the last 7 years of working in thise area I can think of only one year where I wasn't out covering classes a few days a week, whether for the day or for a few hours, because subs were not available.

It will be interesting to see how much that increases this coming year.

Loafing Oaf

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’m not sure where you are getting a single case could take out a school ? I would expect if covid is as transmissible as public health experts claim , our class size and poorly ventilated classes then it will take out a class. I presume after that it’s potential to spread will depend on factors such as child on school transport , siblings etc at primary. In secondary movement across pods due to subject choice may result in a wider spread.? who knows.

Well if every teacher who had been teaching that child over the previous week had to self-isolate you could easily be talking about a quarter to a third of the school's staff. I'd say you may as well close the school in that scenario...

lulublue22

Lillyfae wrote: »

People who don't want them to be opening very loosely following guidelines hoping that there will be another outbreak. Or not bothering at all so they can point the finger and say "I told you so"

I sincerely hope that’s not directed at teachers. Not alone do I have reason to ensure to the best of my ability that I don’t bring covid into my home I also enjoy a very positive relationship with the children I teach. I would personally be very concerned for any of the children I teach and would do everything in my power to mitigate the risk of covid in my class / school. I mean really not implement guidelines which admittedly are ****e in the hope of being able to say I told you so. Despite public opinion schools and teachers will rise to the challenge as Leo so eloquently put it. We always do. Perhaps people can focus on the I’m going on holidays brigade cos I deserve it . If schools close it won’t be due to any half arse attempts by teachers. I think I’ve heard it all now.

scrubs33

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

The contacts at 2nd level aren't manageable.

Johnny in first year shares a room with 23 classmates, he has 30 different classmates across his options, he shares a room with 8 different teachers each day and 15 in total during the week, those teachers then teach their classes (meeting on average 150 students each week themselves), he walks the corridors between each class, eats in the canteen, shares toilet facilties and arrives on a bus with 55 other students from his locality each morning.

Trace that

Leaving Cert Maths Higher Level 2022 Question 1:D:D

Murple

Lillyfae wrote: »

People who don't want them to be opening very loosely following guidelines hoping that there will be another outbreak. Or not bothering at all so they can point the finger and say "I told you so"

So if there is an outbreak in a school, you'll be placing the blame on the teachers and the school as it will have been their fault for not following guidelines.
You actually think that teachers will risk the health of their class, themselves and their own family just "so they can point the finger and say 'I told you so'"? Did you think that through before you posted it?

xhomelezz

Just after seeing U-turn on PUP payments and travel abroad. Let's see for how long this plan will last..

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

A contact is 15 minutes at 2 meters. As long as sanitation is good why would it be different for secondary school kids?

Not all the time

In Germany there is a case of someone getting it from someone passing the salt

In China

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/a-woman-gave-coronavirus-to-71-people-by-doing-this/ar-BB16GeIH

ldy4mxonucwsq6

kingbhome wrote: »

Is it possible that if one kid gets covid in school, the school gets closer down and anyone in that class or has had close contact with that kid will all have to be taken to quarantine, and all definitely vaccinated!

School won't close unless it's deemed necessary and directed to by Health authorities.

Contacts can be tested.

There is no vaccine as yet and if/when there is it will likely be needed before they come in contact with a case and obviously by consent.

Lillyfae

lulublue22 wrote: »

I sincerely hope that’s not directed at teachers. Not alone do I have reason to ensure to the best of my ability that I don’t bring covid into my home I also enjoy a very positive relationship with the children I teach. I would personally be very concerned for any of the children I teach and would do everything in my power to mitigate the risk of covid in my class / school. I mean really not implement guidelines which admittedly are ****e in the hope of being able to say I told you so. Despite public opinion schools and teachers will rise to the challenge as Leo so eloquently put it. We always do. Perhaps people can focus on the I’m going on holidays brigade cos I deserve it . If schools close it won’t be due to any half arse attempts by teachers. I think I’ve heard it all now.

Murple wrote: »

So if there is an outbreak in a school, you'll be placing the blame on the teachers and the school as it will have been their fault for not following guidelines.
You actually think that teachers will risk the health of their class, themselves and their own family just "so they can point the finger and say 'I told you so'"? Did you think that through before you posted it?

I have not mentioned teachers. There are other responsible parties. Parents, principals, BoM. It's been referenced here. There are schools who have done no preparation whatsoever.

lulublue22

Deleted User wrote: »

The suggestion being made here was one case could take out an entire school. I was arguing it doesn’t need to. Schools will need to keep detailed records though

That will depend on the availability and turn around of testing. You mentioned 24 hours a family member was waiting 48 hours last week. 48 h now when cases and demand are realtively low don’t inspire me with confidence. On the other hand perhaps capacity is there and will be ramped up for the winter months.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Lillyfae wrote: »

There are schools who have done no preparation whatsoever.

Name the schools

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

People who don't want them to be opening very loosely following guidelines hoping that there will be another outbreak. Or not bothering at all so they can point the finger and say "I told you so"

PLease explain who would those people be?

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

I have not mentioned teachers. There are other responsible parties. Parents, principals, BoM. It's been referenced here. There are schools who have done no preparation whatsoever.

WHich schools have done no prep and when did they contact the Netherlands to let you know?