How will schools be able to go back in September?

Curlysue76

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

We tried implementing outdoor and indoor shoes in our school last winter to try and keep it cleaner during the day. The amount of flimsy and silly excuses we got were crazy.

We had outdoor and indoor shoes in our primary school 30 years ago. Completely forgot that. Never hear of it nowadays but if my kids school had brought it in I’d have no problem with it.

Mrsmum

I think for whatever reason people are getting casual about sanitation. Back at earlier stages, in my local supermarket, same as everywhere i'm sure, there were the spray bottles and paper towels to clean your trolley and the bin for the discarded towels was always well full if not overflowing with people queuing to use those items. But what I've observed the last few times is that the bin for the used towels is very empty and I watched people march straight past them. More people are wearing masks alright but not sure if that's the connection. There needs to be a back to basics message given out loud and clear again from the Government - wash your hands and clean, clean, clean.

xhomelezz

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Yes ignorant and stupid people will always be so, but it's not always the case.

The amount of people (adults) I have to tell many times a day to put on their mask in the first place, or please pull the mask up to cover your nose, please pull the mask down to cover your chin, the wire goes to the nose, press the wire, its on back to front, your ear loop is snapped etc etc they aren't all dumbasses either.

Also I have found that elderly people and children can struggle with masks too.

Seriously don't know where you live guys, out of all the people with masks I see in the shop, there might be one or two out of 20 doing it arse way. Anyway you must be very busy between all the posting here and educating all those people how to wear mask correctly. All these covid threads are full of made up stories. The other guy sounds like he doesn't do anything else apart from standing outside the shop and observing everyone with mask not able to do it correctly. Seriously

jimmytwotimes 2013

The agenda is clear from a couple of posters.

Blame masks.

People have gotten far too relaxed and we're headed for further restrictions.

A mile-long tailback into Dingle yesterday with tourist cars.

Popular tourist spots packed because people haven't imagination to pick a different spot where there wud be more space.

In any shop I've been in, you'd be lucky if half are wearing a mask. Funnily tho, vast majority are wearing them in Tesco. Probably because the precautions there are so visible and properly run with a man on the door insisting on hand sanitiser.

If there were on-the-spot fines on masks from Gardaí, people wud wear them.

It's a shame but we're only heading for further restrictions and schools closing soon after they open.

The guidelines in society or at school can't be open to interpretation.

No 'recommended' practices. Clear instructions with enforceable penalties are all people understand when it comes to most things.

average_runner

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

The agenda is clear from a couple of posters.

Blame masks.

People have gotten far too relaxed and we're headed for further restrictions.

A mile-long tailback into Dingle yesterday with tourist cars.

Popular tourist spots packed because people haven't imagination to pick a different spot where there wud be more space.

In any shop I've been in, you'd be lucky if half are wearing a mask. Funnily tho, vast majority are wearing them in Tesco. Probably because the precautions there are so visible and properly run with a man on the door insisting on hand sanitiser.

If there were on-the-spot fines on masks from Gardaí, people wud wear them.

It's a shame but we're only heading for further restrictions and schools closing soon after they open.

The guidelines in society or at school can't be open to interpretation.

No 'recommended' practices. Clear instructions with enforceable penalties are all people understand when it comes to most things.

There is no requirement to wear masks in supermarkets, it's a guideline so gardai cant fine some one.

drunkmonkey

xhomelezz wrote: »

The other guy sounds like he doesn't do anything else apart from standing outside the shop and observing everyone with mask not able to do it correctly. Seriously

Kinda comes with the territory when your a retailer. I've observed the general public a lot more than most during all this. They are not behaving like you claim and my friends in the trade are having the same experience.
Everything is gone out the window since masks, those wanting mandatory masks in schools are steering the Titanic right into an iceberg.
NPHET have said masks will not be mandatory in schools. They are not risk free.

xhomelezz

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Seriously go stand outside any shop and observe.

Who's the stupid and ignorant one, the mask wearer who follows no other protocols or the person who doesn't wear a mask but follows all other guidelines.
You make out people who don't wear a mask are stupid, that's just good old fashioned racism.

Well, that's not what I said. But carry on.

jimmytwotimes 2013

average_runner wrote: »

There is no requirement to wear masks in supermarkets, it's a guideline so gardai cant fine some one.

That's why I said a fine would make people wear them

wirelessdude01

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

No 'recommended' practices. Clear instructions with enforceable penalties are all people understand when it comes to most things.

But then you have the 'I know my rights bro' people who think all rules infringe on their civil liberties. For the likes of schools we need to be able to enforce mandatory use of hand sanitiser, under the current guidelines we need to be able to enforce mandatory use of masks where they are deemed necessary by the school. The above should have no ifs, buts or maybes.

khalessi

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There not simple procedures, I've yet to see someone use them correctly while following the basic advice. You need to stand outside a shop for a few minutes to see what's actually happening.

What do you regard as proper wearing?

I spent 4 hours in LV on Saturday and saw sd queuing and proper mask wearing even among children under the age of 10, for the most part. The few offenders were mainly men who took the amish approach protecting their chin, the I need to talk and take it off and look ma I dont breathe through my nose so it's ok to expose it. They were in the minority. The kids I foiund interesting as there was one family in the same place as me for an hour and their kids 3 of them never took the masks off, an donly one touched the mask briefly, they played, chatted and walked along. They were I would guess 5. 7 or 8 and 9/10, it was pretty impressive.

No one will get it perfect like no one washes their hands properly unless they are shown. How many people knew the Ayliffe technique before Covid19. It was always my way of spotting medical people in public bathrooms as it is second nature to do.

We should not be advocating the not wearing of masks, the more practice the better people get. The better we promote it, the more people realise the above methods are not correct.

WIth kids practice at home make it a game. Millions of children around the world wear them no bother because they are used to it. If kids can do then adults can. It is not rocket science.

average_runner

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

That's why I said a fine would make people wear them

Dont think that would work, gardai haven't got the numbers for enforcing it on public transport

xhomelezz

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Kinda comes with the territory when your a retailer. I've observed the general public a lot more than most during all this. They are not behaving like you claim and my friends in the trade are having the same experience.
Everything is gone out the window since masks, those wanting mandatory masks in schools are steering the Titanic right into an iceberg.
NPHET have said masks will not be mandatory in schools. They are not risk free.

Seriously? Gonna put my life vest on so.

jimmytwotimes 2013

They don't have numbers to catch everybody speeding either but the prospect of being caught is enough for a lot (not all) of people.

If a guard could land on a bus or walk into a shop and fine whoever they see not complying, we'd definitely see more compliance.

People have gotten so lax on masks it's sad. No desire to keep virus down, no consideration for other people.

Fines won't cover every situation but they'd certainly make people think twice. People hate getting hit in the pocket

drunkmonkey

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

If there were on-the-spot fines on masks from Gardaí, people wud wear them.

No they wouldn't. What happens when you don't pay the fine? Jail? Won't happen, government can't risk mass disobedience.

While we're on the subject of the Guards why don't they have to wear a mask when piling into a car together while my builder mate can only out two people in his 5 seater van due to h&s guidelines.

Rules make no sense they way they've been rolled out. Maybe we give all the students a toasted sandwich at sus time and they'll be grand.

average_runner

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

They don't have numbers to catch everybody speeding either but the prospect of being caught is enough for a lot (not all) of people.

If a guard could land on a bus or walk into a shop and fine whoever they see not complying, we'd definitely see more compliance.

People have gotten so lax on masks it's sad. No desire to keep virus down, nó consideration for other people.

Fines won't cover every situation but they'd certainly make people think twice. People hate getting hit in the pocket

Just need shops to say no mask no entry.

jimmytwotimes 2013

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No they wouldn't. What happens when you don't pay the fine? Jail? Won't happen, government can't risk mass disobedience.

While we're on the subject of the Guards why don't they have to wear a mask when piling into a car together while my builder mate can only out two people in his 5 seater van due to h&s guidelines.

Rules make no sense they way they've been rolled out. Maybe we give all the students a toasted sandwich at sus time and they'll be grand.

€135 fine has been introduced in France.

If they can do it....

average_runner

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

€135 fine has been introduced in France.

If they can do it....

Big marches and riots in Germany over masks.
French have a bigger police force

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

Just need shops to say no mask no entry.

I pointed out yesterday that's what I have seen this weekend in two different shops. Staff stopping people from entering without masks.

khalessi

average_runner wrote: »

Just need shops to say no mask no entry.

I was queuing to get into Penneys the other day and a couple walked in ignoring the sd queuing and he had his mask under his nose. The security pointed it out to another staff member, who went after them asked them to go back out and queue and put the mask on properly if they were going into the store. All very polite and resulted in people joining queue and mask on properly, no fuss.

I realise not everyone will be so polite when this is said to them but it is a start.

jimmytwotimes 2013

average_runner wrote: »

Big marches and riots in Germany over masks.
French have a bigger police force

Amazed we observe any laws at that rate

PhilOssophy

Thread is in the TLDR category, but I think we have reached the point where it seems the only 2 things we don't want to do is school and work. Crowds of young people thrashing Kilkee, another crowd dispersed in Portugal, house parties all over the place. We were afraid to do the leaving cert 2 months ago but there has been no problem doing absolutely everything and anything since?

We need to get back to school and college come what may and for the Covid payment to end.

If the teacher needs to be in a glass box at the front of the classroom, wearing a face shield, whatever - it has to be done.

drunkmonkey

average_runner wrote: »

Just need shops to say no mask no entry.

This is the problem, you've ignored all other health advice, it"s become all about the mask.
How about no entry without cleaning your hands. How about not standing on top of other people just because you've a mask.

If schools don't look after the basics they are screwed, the mask is an add on not a replacement for other guidelines.

drunkmonkey

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Amazed we observe any laws at that rate

We turn people on each other instead, schools are a perfect example. We've turned the people who would like to socialize against parents. Guards don't need to be involved they can kick back and watch us beat each other.

khalessi

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Thread is in the TLDR category, but I think we have reached the point where it seems the only 2 things we don't want to do is school and work. Crowds of young people thrashing Kilkee, another crowd dispersed in Portugal, house parties all over the place. We were afraid to do the leaving cert 2 months ago but there has been no problem doing absolutely everything and anything since?

We need to get back to school and college come what may and for the Covid payment to end.

If the teacher needs to be in a glass box at the front of the classroom, wearing a face shield, whatever - it has to be done.

Actually most people want school to reopen but it is farcical to think that we have so many requirements in line with NPHET and international health policy re masks sd etc and yet none apply to schools unlike schools around Europe which everyone keeps telling us to be more like as they are open albeit with restrictions.

khalessi

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is the problem, you've ignored all other health advice, it"s become all about the mask.
How about no entry without cleaning your hands. How about not standing on top of other people just because you've a mask.

If schools don't look after the basics they are screwed, the mask is an add on not a replacement for other guidelines.

Why would you assume schools wont look after the basics?

We are trying in regards the impossible sd requirement and hand hygiene and cough etiquette has long been a thing in primary schools along with insisting the children stop picking their noses as it is yuck

jimmytwotimes 2013

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is the problem, you've ignored all other health advice, it"s become all about the mask.
How about no entry without cleaning your hands. How about not standing on top of other people just because you've a mask.

If schools don't look after the basics they are screwed, the mask is an add on not a replacement for other guidelines.

Clearly

Nobody is saying, wear a mask and forget all other methods used to stop spread of virus. Do we have to mention them all while we're discussing the mask issue?

Obviously cover cough, don't touch face, sanitise/wash hands regularly, wear mask, follow SD

One isn't exclusive of the others and won't be presented as such at schools.

We have proof that masks don’t work. We flattened the curve and kept it flat for a couple of months without masks. Nobody was wearing them in supermarkets or anywhere and we weren’t all catching Covid.

In fact, since more started wearing masks, the numbers have began increasing. Very possibly due to incorrect mask usage and constant fidgeting at your face while wearing it.

I know a lot of people that hate wearing the mask so much that they just won’t go to places were masks are required.

The stats in Ireland show that kids won’t die of Covid anyways. Waste of time making their lives miserable with masks.

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

We have proof that masks don’t work. We flattened the curve and kept it flat for a couple of months without masks. Nobody was wearing them in supermarkets or anywhere and we weren’t all catching Covid.

In fact, since more started wearing masks, the numbers have began increasing. Very possibly due to incorrect mask usage and constant fidgeting at your face while wearing it.

I know a lot of people that hate wearing the mask so much that they just won’t go to places were masks are required.

The stats in Ireland show that kids won’t die of Covid anyways. Waste of time making their lives miserable with masks.

We flattened the curve by closing everything down and instigating a lockdown.
Numbers increasing as people not wearing masks and not sd when socialisiing house parties etc as they are mingling again and lockdown eased

wirelessdude01

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Thread is in the TLDR category, but I think we have reached the point where it seems the only 2 things we don't want to do is school and work. Crowds of young people thrashing Kilkee, another crowd dispersed in Portugal, house parties all over the place. We were afraid to do the leaving cert 2 months ago but there has been no problem doing absolutely everything and anything since?

We need to get back to school and college come what may and for the Covid payment to end.

If the teacher needs to be in a glass box at the front of the classroom, wearing a face shield, whatever - it has to be done.

We already know DCU and UCD are online until after Christmas at a minimum.

wirelessdude01

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If schools don't look after the basics they are screwed, the mask is an add on not a replacement for other guidelines.

Don't think any of us teachers want them as a replacement, more so in addition to.

wirelessdude01

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If schools don't look after the basics they are screwed, the mask is an add on not a replacement for other guidelines.

Don't think any of us teachers want them as a replacement, more so in addition to.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

I know a lot of people that hate wearing the mask so much that they just won’t go to places were masks are required.

Jesus, imagine been that contrary.

jimmytwotimes 2013

We're all different but I don't see how people get so personally aggrieved over having to wear a mask. Fairly simple thing to do I'd have thought.

They're not being asked to give a kidney.

drunkmonkey

khalessi wrote: »

Why would you assume schools wont look after the basics?

We are trying in regards the impossible sd requirement and hand hygiene and cough etiquette has long been a thing in primary schools along with insisting the children stop picking their noses as it is yuck

I think they'll try but it's an impossible ask of them especially heading into winter with the usuals sniffles. Teachers were first out and last in and I've a feeling there more paranoid than most and rightly so.
I really don't see how they can pull it off, I'm guessing we'll see shutdowns in the first few hours not weeks.
Shops mask or no mask I take the strategy of in and out as quick as I can, know exactly what I'm going in for and hopefully back out the door in 5 minutes. (I'm basing that on it takes 20 minutes to become a close contact). That's a whole different ball game than a class environment so the risk is times 1000 of infection.

I'm very concerned of the Government strategy, this should have all been tested through the summer. I'm not overly concerned about my kids getting it, bringing it home is worrying though.

wirelessdude01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know a lot of people that hate wearing the mask so much that they just won’t go to places were masks.

Imagine being that stubborn.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Imagine being that stubborn.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, if it's not an essential visit then people who don't want the hassle (whatever their reason might be) will avoid it altogether.

I don't go anywhere unless I've no other choice these days. I don't bring my younger kids to the shops and haven't since March because it isn't necessary for me.

I'm sure there are many people still avoiding non essential trips etc and there are benefits to that approach.

iamwhoiam

One of the problems now is the lack of strong leadership . In the beginning and up till very lately we sat down at 6 and watched the News . We hung on the R rate , the figures and the calm but authoritative voice of Tony
We waited to hear what Leo and Simon had to say , we listen and we agreed . We did as told , we stayed in , we scrubbed our hand if we so much as walked around the block . We had trust in them , we were led by them and we stayed within our guidelines
Now many are not listening , grown tired of the News and the R and the figures
We are not shocked into being careful , we are not stunned with deaths and ICU figures
Therin lies the problem , if the community was careful and spread contained the schools could open more safely
Then if Covid is not in the community the schools will be far safer
We have no real , strong , insistent leadership telling us that message and ensuring we get that message
If we want the schools open the community has to be far more intolerant of any breaches of the guidelines .

drunkmonkey

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Don't think any of us teachers want them as a replacement, more so in addition to.

Your ignoring all the risks improper use can cause, I'm saying I see it daily in retail I think you've an impossible job if your going to try and seek compliance in a school environment.

Think about what happens if someone has it and their mask usage throughout the day. Think about everything else they do, think about lunchtime when there gone to spar. If someone has it in school it's going to spread mask or no mask.

I'd go as far as saying there should be mandatory temperature checks on they way on but then how do you pick up the asymptomatic if there a big danger as we're lead to believe.

drunkmonkey

iamwhoiam wrote: »

One of the problems now is the lack of strong leadership . In the beginning and up till very lately we sat down at 6 and watched the News . We hung on the R rate , the figures and the calm but authoritative voice of Tony
We waited to hear what Leo and Simon had to say , we listen and we agreed . We did as told , we stayed in , we scrubbed our hand if we so much as walked around the block . We had trust in them , we were led by them and we stayed within our guidelines
Now many are not listening , grown tired of the News and the R and the figures
We are not shocked into being careful , we are not stunned with deaths and ICU figures
Therin lies the problem , if the community was careful and spread contained the schools could open more safely
Then if Covid is not in the community the schools will be far safer
We have no real , strong , insistent leadership telling us that message and ensuring we get that message
If we want the schools open the community has to be far more intolerant of any breaches of the guidelines .

If they wanted to show leadership they would control all our borders. It's going to happen it's just how much collateral damage is done first. Schools should not open until that's sorted out, we've still a chance not to completely squander lockdown but it's getting harder every day open borders continue.

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

The stats in Ireland show that kids won’t die of Covid anyways. Waste of time making their lives miserable with masks.

So parents should only be worried about their children contracting a given illness if it's likely to kill them in the near future?

If your kid (if you have one) developed severe eczema would you refuse to bring them to the doctor because it's just a bit of an itch?

Bananaleaf

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

The poster I replied to implied that the surge was caused by the schools abandoning mask wearing and that we would see the same here if kids didn't wear them.

I was pointing out, in the case that they mentioned, it was actually due to teachers infecting students across multiple classes.

I don't think there was any one factor involved but it probably wasn't just due to the fact that masks weren't being worn.

Masks can actually cause more trouble if they aren't used correctly, I think weighing it up their benefits would be questionable in a school setting.

Thanks for the reply.

This is the problem the PP schools will be facing though. I interact with 150+ students per week. On any given day I might see 120+ of them. In various different classes of 30. Different year groups, different subjects.

From students perspective, they would be in a room without SD with up to 10 different teachers every day.

I agree with you on the masks. They aren't the answer and yes a lot of people are not using them correctly. I see people come out of the shops and hang them on their rear view mirror. Just swooshing the virus around their car, with all the windows closed as they drive home. But for PP, even at that, it has to be better than nothing.

Windows need to be open in classrooms all day (I know a lot have minimal ventilation via the windows due to how they are installed) but for a lot of classrooms masks are the "least bad option" (to quote Breda O'Brien on the subject of opening of schools altogether, never mind the use of masks)

xhomelezz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We have proof that masks don’t work. We flattened the curve and kept it flat for a couple of months without masks. Nobody was wearing them in supermarkets or anywhere and we weren’t all catching Covid.

In fact, since more started wearing masks, the numbers have began increasing. Very possibly due to incorrect mask usage and constant fidgeting at your face while wearing it.

I know a lot of people that hate wearing the mask so much that they just won’t go to places were masks are required.

The stats in Ireland show that kids won’t die of Covid anyways. Waste of time making their lives miserable with masks.

Thank fcuk you are not sitting in government. We would be all screwed. Posting something like this is actually dangerous. Not only for my mental health, but imagine somebody will actually believe it

brian78

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We have proof that masks don’t work. We flattened the curve and kept it flat for a couple of months without masks. Nobody was wearing them in supermarkets or anywhere and we weren’t all catching Covid.

In fact, since more started wearing masks, the numbers have began increasing. Very possibly due to incorrect mask usage and constant fidgeting at your face while wearing it.

I know a lot of people that hate wearing the mask so much that they just won’t go to places were masks are required.

The stats in Ireland show that kids won’t die of Covid anyways. Waste of time making their lives miserable with masks.

So you mean if my son infected Covid-19 in school , and he will not infected me (I have Diabetes) or his grandma (78 years old)? It's not himself , that's all my family and people around us.

PhilOssophy

Point might have been made already but if everybody is wearing masks and hand sanitisers etc are properly installed, rooms ventilated etc I don't see how this can spread in the class room.
If there is a confirmed case, the whole school gets tested. That could surely be done easily enough? I'm not buying the "its not safe" argument any more. If students don't want to go back there should be an online option, if teachers don't want to go back they can be substituted and there is a Covid payment available to them like everybody else.

Benimar

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Point might have been made already but if everybody is wearing masks and hand sanitisers etc are properly installed, rooms ventilated etc I don't see how this can spread in the class room.
If there is a confirmed case, the whole school gets tested. That could surely be done easily enough? I'm not buying the "its not safe" argument any more. If students don't want to go back there should be an online option, if teachers don't want to go back they can be substituted and there is a Covid payment available to them like everybody else.

Minister Norma Foley 'It is not envisaged that masks will be worn'

I don't think its unreasonable for teachers to be concerned that students won't be keeping social distance, nor wearing masks. If it was me, I'd be concerned!

xhomelezz

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Point might have been made already but if everybody is wearing masks and hand sanitisers etc are properly installed, rooms ventilated etc I don't see how this can spread in the class room.
If there is a confirmed case, the whole school gets tested. That could surely be done easily enough? I'm not buying the "its not safe" argument any more. If students don't want to go back there should be an online option, if teachers don't want to go back they can be substituted and there is a Covid payment available to them like everybody else.

The problem is amount of the kids in the classroom. If you put too many of them in, none of the measures will work at the end. None of the measures is bulletproof, so you have to apply about all of them together, yet social distancing is all forgotten.

PhilOssophy

Benimar wrote: »

Minister Norma Foley 'It is not envisaged that masks will be worn'

I don't think its unreasonable for teachers to be concerned that students won't be keeping social distance, nor wearing masks. If it was me, I'd be concerned!

They should be. Fully agree. Makes no sense. Another thought, what happened in the likes of Denmark where schools are back ages? I didn't hear anything about them all closing? Surely there are learnings from what they did?

PhilOssophy

xhomelezz wrote: »

The problem is amount of the kids in the classroom. If you put too many of them in, none of the measures will work at the end. None of the measures is bulletproof, so you have to apply about all of them together, yet social distancing is all forgotten.

Then use the school halls, use the local GAA club, halve the classes, get substitute/retired teachers to help out. It can be done!

xhomelezz

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Then use the school halls, use the local GAA club, halve the classes, get substitute/retired teachers to help out. It can be done!

I still think they should open, no doubt. But put just half of the students at the same time in. That would allow schools follow safety guidelines from the start. All in is a no go imo. Unless they gonna be able to put up another school building beside the old one we have.

downthemiddle

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Then use the school halls, use the local GAA club, halve the classes, get substitute/retired teachers to help out. It can be done!

No subs to be had. As a retired teacher you would, in many cases, be in the high risk category.