How will schools be able to go back in September?

Alrigghtythen

coffeyt wrote: »

Not sure a lot of schools would have a dishwasher but I think the fogger should definitely be looked at, as far as I know they can do a decent room in a couple of mins.

Some would have them in the staff rooms but if they dont they can buy one out if the funding being provided


The Minor Works Grant is based on a flat rate of €5,500 plus a per capita rate of €18.50 for each pupil (€74 in the case of pupils in special schools or special classes). The
enhanced element of the minor work grant will match this (therefore doubling the minor works grant to schools).


The table below provides an illustrative example of the value of the minor works grant for primary schools of various sizes.
School Size Current Minor Works Grant Enhanced COVID -19 element Total Minor Works Grant
60 €6,610 €6,610 €13,220
100 €7,350 €7,350 €14,700
200 €9,200 €9,200 €18,400
300 €11,050 €11,050 €22,100
400 €12,900 €12,900 €25,800
500 €14,750 €14,750 €29,500
Calculations in this table based on number of mainstream pupils only;

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Some would have them in the staff rooms but if they dont they can buy one out if the funding being provided


The Minor Works Grant is based on a flat rate of €5,500 plus a per capita rate of €18.50 for each pupil (€74 in the case of pupils in special schools or special classes). The
enhanced element of the minor work grant will match this (therefore doubling the minor works grant to schools).


The table below provides an illustrative example of the value of the minor works grant for primary schools of various sizes.
School Size Current Minor Works Grant Enhanced COVID -19 element Total Minor Works Grant
60 €6,610 €6,610 €13,220
100 €7,350 €7,350 €14,700
200 €9,200 €9,200 €18,400
300 €11,050 €11,050 €22,100
400 €12,900 €12,900 €25,800
500 €14,750 €14,750 €29,500
Calculations in this table based on number of mainstream pupils only;

A dishwasher doesn't come in under the minor works scheme 🙄

Will Yam

downthemiddle wrote: »

Congratulations. I’m sure it’s well earned. Teachers get a payrise on October 1st. I’m sure you’ll be equally delighted for them.

Whatever about working teachers, it’s gobsmacking that retired schoolteachers would get a rise in their pensions.


Especially as state oaps have beeen denied an increase because “the country can’t afford it”

Alrigghtythen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

A dishwasher doesn't come in under the minor works scheme 🙄

If,after risk assessing, it is what your school team decides is needed to clean items and prevent spread of covid and included it as part of the response plan, it is. It could also be covered by this grant

• A COVID-19 capitation grant to fund the cost of enhanced cleaning regimes within schools.


The depart have given school the flexibility to look at what is need in thier individual school. It states it many times in the road map

The range of additional supports available to Primary Schools are:
• An enhanced Minor Works Grant to support full implementation of COVID-19 response plans;
• Employing an aide to help with the school re-opening logistics;
• Increased management support to schools;
• Extending the current pilot supply panel for substitute teachers on a nationwide basis; and
• Additional financial supports to provide for additional cleaning, hand hygiene and PPE costs under the COVID-19 Response Plans.

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If,after risk assessing, it is what your school team decides is needed to clean items and prevent spread of covid and included it as part of the response plan, it is. It could also be covered by this grant

• A COVID-19 capitation grant to fund the cost of enhanced cleaning regimes within schools.


The depart have given school the flexibility to look at what is need in thier individual school. It states it many times in the road map

The range of additional supports available to Primary Schools are:
• An enhanced Minor Works Grant to support full implementation of COVID-19 response plans;
• Employing an aide to help with the school re-opening logistics;
• Increased management support to schools;
• Extending the current pilot supply panel for substitute teachers on a nationwide basis; and
• Additional financial supports to provide for additional cleaning, hand hygiene and PPE costs under the COVID-19 Response Plans.

I await a report on the RTE news so regarding the spike in dishwasher sales and the resultant scarcity.

Alrigghtythen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I await a report on the RTE news so regarding the spike in dishwasher sales and the resultant scarcity.

Yes, that right. There no solutions and nothing can be done.

It's a bit mad that you are sneering at a way to wash toys. What solution do you think would work most effectively?

iamwhoiam

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I await a report on the RTE news so regarding the spike in dishwasher sales and the resultant scarcity.

I wash plastic toys in the dishwasher all the time . The babys toys come out gleaming and are washed at 60 or 75 degrees
I had Duplo from my own lot and when it came out of the attic it had black spots in the grooves . Into the dishwasher at 75 degrees and it came out spotless
Its a very effective way to clean toys at a high heat

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I await a report on the RTE news so regarding the spike in dishwasher sales and the resultant scarcity.

You'll find the same situation with cleaners for the schools.

All the businesses that have since opened under the guidelines and increased cleaning in other areas means schools are really going to struggle to find anyone available to even do this work.

average_runner

My boys school have their act together already and some nice changes to make the boys happy.

Start time 845-915.
No school bags or school books to leave the school
Homework will be on an app.
Kids can wear school tracksuit instead of uniform
PE still.going ahead as too important for the kids
Lunch time staggered

More info to come in two weeks.

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

My boys school have their act together already and some nice changes to make the boys happy.

Start time 845-915.
No school bags or school books to leave the school
Homework will be on an app.
Kids can wear school tracksuit instead of uniform
PE still.going ahead as too important for the kids
Lunch time staggered

More info to come in two weeks.

My homework will be going online as well. Will keep them in tune with Google classroom as well if we have to shutdown at any stage. I brought it up on our zoom staff meeting this week and you'd think I had 12 ears with the faces when I said it.

Also we've staggered drop off as well. Split the school in half for breaks. PE going ahead as well but we've to come up with some system for cleaning equipment used(doubt hula hoops will fit in the new dishwasher 😜).

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

You'll find the same situation with cleaners for the schools.

All the businesses that have since opened under the guidelines and increased cleaning in other areas means schools are really going to struggle to find anyone available to even do this work.

In full agreement with you on that point. Our cleaner handed in her notice a few weeks back as she got a better paying cleaning gig with bigger hours.

Alrigghtythen

We might have to fly in cleaners from bulgaria

average_runner

This a good read. All about kids are not super so spreaders.

khalessi

coffeyt wrote: »

I know friend of one has gotten a large industrial one for his pub but think it's only used when the pub is empty. You can get small hand held one's which might be an option for younger children's toys etc.

Is that like steam cleaning? Sounds like a fab idea for cleaning the toys.

khalessi

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If,after risk assessing, it is what your school team decides is needed to clean items and prevent spread of covid and included it as part of the response plan, it is. It could also be covered by this grant

• A COVID-19 capitation grant to fund the cost of enhanced cleaning regimes within schools.


The depart have given school the flexibility to look at what is need in thier individual school. It states it many times in the road map

The range of additional supports available to Primary Schools are:
• An enhanced Minor Works Grant to support full implementation of COVID-19 response plans;
• Employing an aide to help with the school re-opening logistics;
• Increased management support to schools;
• Extending the current pilot supply panel for substitute teachers on a nationwide basis; and
• Additional financial supports to provide for additional cleaning, hand hygiene and PPE costs under the COVID-19 Response Plans.

Dishwasher is great but in the scheme of things it would be considered a luxury item. We have one in our staffroom that we bought and paid to have fitted. We have quite a number of junior senior and first classes, so washing their toys would take most of the evening, though it is a good idea, and no one will stay to wash the toys well into the evening, when they have a night of correcting and planning ahead of them.

coffeyt

khalessi wrote: »

Is that like steam cleaning? Sounds like a fab idea for cleaning the toys.

As I said I'm not totally up to date on them have just seen the large industrial ones online (very expensive I assume)

A quick Google brings up some smaller options:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Cordless-Rechargeable-Electrostatic-Sterilization/dp/B08CB51VVQ/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=fogger&qid=1596225663&sr=8-16

I guess some more research would find the best options.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zuvo-Sanitiser-Portable-Disinfecting-Capacity/dp/B08CDW4NC3/ref=pd_vtp_60_2/258-9778022-0357557?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B08CDW4NC3&pd_rd_r=8a22e7c1-2669-402c-8e74-d4646ff0960a&pd_rd_w=IH3Ig&pd_rd_wg=8AlKU&pf_rd_p=768b5a93-0842-4c9d-8f7f-107f5eb91a6d&pf_rd_r=S6S7GADHSDXV9BC5VFTP&psc=1&refRID=S6S7GADHSDXV9BC5VFTP
This one gives details on time it takes to work and area it would cover.

Alrigghtythen

khalessi wrote: »

Dishwasher is great but in the scheme of things it would be considered a luxury item. We have one in our staffroom that we bought and paid to have fitted. We have quite a number of junior senior and first classes, so washing their toys would take most of the evening, though it is a good idea, and no one will stay to wash the toys well into the evening, when they have a night of correcting and planning ahead of them.

In the scheme if things it's a luxury item? That's gas.


My child caught covid because the toys weren't washed


School response: we risk assessed it and though it was an appropriate item suitable for cleaning but we didnt buy it because it was a luxury item we weren't prepared to spend 200 euro, although we have one for our own cups.

There be an decrease in the number if toys and all selected will have to be easy to clean. The dishwasher could be turned on with the toys at the same time tge person with the fogger is fogging the classroom. No need to stay all night

khalessi

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

In the scheme if things it's a luxury item? That's gas.


My child caught covid because the toys weren't washed


School response: we risk assessed it and though it was an appropriate item suitable for cleaning but we didnt buy it because it was a luxury item we weren't prepared to spend 200 euro, although we have one for our own cups.

I dont expect you to understand you haven't so far. Do you feel like donating one or just add constant sarcasm. I sure you saw the mod note about teacher bashing so please if you have nothing to add step away. Ta muchly

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

In the scheme if things it's a luxury item? That's gas.


My child caught covid because the toys weren't washed


School response: we risk assessed it and though it was an appropriate item suitable for cleaning but we didnt buy it because it was a luxury item we weren't prepared to spend 200 euro, although we have one for our own cups.

There be an decrease in the number if toys and all selected will have to be easy to clean. The dishwasher could be turned on with the toys at the same time tge person with the fogger is fogging the classroom. No need to stay all night

Or maybe just maybe after essential works were completed and the bill settled there just wasn't any money left.

Alrigghtythen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Or maybe just maybe after essential works were completed and the bill settled there just wasn't any money left.

If you clean Lego with a fogger you'll have to turn over all the individual pieces to make sure you get all sides. Whats the alternative? Remove the Lego or get some one to wash it in a basin or?

Lego is only an example, apply the same principle to any small bits of equipment

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Or maybe just maybe after essential works were completed and the bill settled there just wasn't any money left.

You see Alrighty just doesnt understand. A dishwasher these days should be standard but we had to buy one ourselves. I spend a couple of thousand every year subsidising my classroom and that is never seen. It is assumed that everything a child uses comes from the school, but not all of it does and most teachers I know subsidise their classrooms. The gas thing is as most teachers here know, you spend the money here and there throughout the year as you need stuff so you dont see it add up.

am_zarathustra

average_runner wrote: »

This a good read. All about kids are not super so spreaders.

It is not all about kids not being super spreaders. It's literally a list of papers, only a handful of which are peer reviewed. I'd have failed any science exam or project if I'd have hander this is. The only decent journal I see, with an actually publish paper (not preprint which means unchecked or I checkable) is the last on in the Journal of Infection in which it state in the introduction

"There are more children than adults with asymptomatic infections, milder conditions, faster recovery, and a better prognosis. Some concealed morbidity characteristics also bring difficulties to the early identification, prevention and control of COVID-19. COVID-19 screening is needed in the pediatric fever clinic, and respiratory and digestive tract nucleic acid tests should be performed. Efforts should be made to prevent children from becoming a hidden source of transmission in kindergartens, schools or families."

There is no way the group doing this "listing" I guess (because it's not a meta-analysis) does not have an agenda. I had a quick look at a couple of the papers outside of the ones in recognisable journals and there are tiny numbers involved.

Curious the only large scale analysis that actually reaches an acceptable p-value, a basic value most epidemiologically valid studies should pass, is regarded as low quality by this group despite every other eminent scientist in the area stating it's by far and away the best study so far given the numbers involved and the quality of the contact tracing.

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If you clean Lego with a fogger you'll have to turn over all the individual pieces to make sure you get all sides. Whats the alternative? Remove the Lego

For the moment that's what we have decided to do until we can put together a workable solution for cleaning.

Alrigghtythen

khalessi wrote: »

You see Alrighty just doesnt understand. A dishwasher these days should be standard but we had to buy one ourselves. I spend a couple of thousand every year subsidising my classroom and that is never seen. It is assumed that everything a child uses comes from the school, but not all of it does and most teachers I know subsidise their classrooms. The gas thing is as most teachers here know, you spend the money here and there throughout the year as you need stuff so you dont see it add up.

Maybe you dont understand what a pre and post covid school will need to look like and the changes that will be necessary. But as I understand it the training hasn't been released yet, but there will be changes because there has to be.

morebabies

Does anyone know if asthma in a child that usually requires at least one emergency dept visit over the autumn/ winter period falls into the high risk category for children returning to school in Ireland? I have 2 children like this, but I obviously know children with much more severe illnesses like CF, who should be prioritised for the (annoyingly vague) remote learning option and I don't want to be seen as abusing the system for teachers who will already be under severe pressure. Any input would be appreciated.

Alrigghtythen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

For the moment that's what we have decided to do until we can put together a workable solution for cleaning.

Sorry but you really need to reconsider that, if you are serious, please. Fogger is brilliant for desks, chairs, floor, walls, etc. Bit unless your going to line all the equipment up and then turn it over to ensure 360 sanitation, there are better strategies

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Maybe you dont understand what a pre and post covid school will need to look like and the changes that will be necessary. But as I understand it the training hasn't been released yet, but there will be changes because there has to be.

Once again the elephant in the room is money. We all would like certain things but we don't get everything we want or would like. If we had then there wouldn't be a single teacher on here showing what's wrong with that document.

If it's a choice between hand sanitizer and a dishwasher, which would you get? That could be the choice.

khalessi

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Maybe you dont understand what a pre and post covid school will need to look like and the changes that will be necessary. But as I understand it the training hasn't been released yet, but there will be changes because there has to be.

Maybe having spent years working in the area of infectious diseases I might, but thank you for your worry, the sarcasm is dripping off you get a towel

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Sorry but you really need to reconsider that, if you are serious, please

Staff decided. I'm part of the group tasked with trying to come up with a practical and sustainable solution for cleaning shared resources.

am_zarathustra

coffeyt wrote: »

As I said I'm not totally up to date on them have just seen the large industrial ones online (very expensive I assume)

A quick Google brings up some smaller options:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Cordless-Rechargeable-Electrostatic-Sterilization/dp/B08CB51VVQ/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=fogger&qid=1596225663&sr=8-16

I guess some more research would find the best options.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zuvo-Sanitiser-Portable-Disinfecting-Capacity/dp/B08CDW4NC3/ref=pd_vtp_60_2/258-9778022-0357557?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B08CDW4NC3&pd_rd_r=8a22e7c1-2669-402c-8e74-d4646ff0960a&pd_rd_w=IH3Ig&pd_rd_wg=8AlKU&pf_rd_p=768b5a93-0842-4c9d-8f7f-107f5eb91a6d&pf_rd_r=S6S7GADHSDXV9BC5VFTP&psc=1&refRID=S6S7GADHSDXV9BC5VFTP
This one gives details on time it takes to work and area it would cover.

Good idea for big rooms or heavy use areas.

If it's small objects would primary school consider a UV cabinet, a couple of minutes kills all covid, it's used medically to disinfect. I've used them in labs, every safe, will only turn on when closed! A dentist friend of mine bought one for her surgery that filter air and disinfects it with UV light as it does. Covid seems particularly sensitive to UV light and it wouldn't damage the toys? I'm post primary and I'm gonna take a look at the cost of the air filters but for toys or would be very fast and very effective