How will schools be able to go back in September?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

scrubs33 wrote: »

I have some small work that needs done on the house and I contacted a few local builders. The earliest anyone will be able to start is mid October. So either schools will have to wait or pay through the nose to get them in earlier and that won’t be long eating through a budget.

Same here, November is the earliest I can get anyone. Everywhere is completely out the door with catching up on things.

Had to wait over a month for a slot to book the car in for a few small bits, that was the shortest wait I could find.

The usual tender process is like pulling teeth at the best of times, but with the way things are now its going to be impossible.

wirelessdude01

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Same here, November is the earliest I can get anyone. Everywhere is completely out the door with catching up on things.

Had to wait over a month for a slot to book the car in for a few small bits, that was the shortest wait I could find.

The usual tender process is like pulling teeth at the best of times, but with the way things are now its going to be impossible.

So are you now beginning to acknowledge the issues with this 'plan'?

Boggles

scrubs33 wrote: »

I have some small work that needs done on the house and I contacted a few local builders. The earliest anyone will be able to start is mid October. So either schools will have to wait or pay through the nose to get them in earlier and that won’t be long eating through a budget.

It's no surprise.

Building firms with ongoing projects need to get to certain points in the developments to draw on further finance.

I know 2 builders who had to put up their family homes as collateral just to get approved for financing of 2 relatively small developments.

Necessary rules that came in after the madness of the 2000s.

Alrigghtythen

Boggles wrote: »

That's super. But that advice does not apply to schools, does it?

In that plan they specifically and categorically say



"Physical separation is enough"

No problem, Mary the cleaner will come in the evening and kill all the Covid with her mop.

Pg3

As the public health restrictions are lifted and there are no longer detailed rules in place imposed by the State, everybody in society will now exercise their own judgement and take personal responsibility for decisions that they make about the risk of infection to themselves and to others in different situations. A risk assessment framework or checklist may be of assistance to individuals and families, as well as to organisations, businesses, schools, community groups etc. in making decisions about how to assess the risk of different activities and take actions to lower the risk of spreading infection. It is important that there is continued commitment across society from all arms of the State, organisations, employers, businesses and individuals to work together to collectively promote, support and encourage everyone in society to adhere to the core public health principles as effectively as possible, as often as possible, and in as many situations as possible, for the benefit of all.



Why do you think the schools are excluded?


Maybe we could get mary a dishwasher, uv light and a fogger?

Boggles

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Maybe we could get mary a dishwasher, uv light and a fogger?

"Maybe" never milked a cow.

Alrigghtythen

Boggles wrote: »

"Maybe" never milked a cow.

It'll be up to individual schools to determine what cleaning the funding provided will be spent on as the requirements in each individual school will vary.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So are you now beginning to acknowledge the issues with this 'plan'?

I always said that nothing they did would be perfect. A lot of responsibility has been pushed back on schools but we knew that was going to be the case.

A lot of these issues could have been addressed if planning had started out earlier.

What it means for the reopening, I don't know. Will schools have to delay opening or will they have to make do and go ahead regardless.

Boggles

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

It'll be up to individual schools to determine what cleaning the funding provided will be spent on as the requirements in each individual school will vary.

Of course, more mop heads for Mary.

There is no such thing as airborne transmission.

Be grand!

Alrigghtythen

Boggles wrote: »

Of course, more mop heads for Mary.

There is no such thing as airborne transmission.

Be grand!

You're the only one who seems to be determined to deny mary any other equipment than a mop

wirelessdude01

Is Mary the new Karen?

Boggles

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

You're the only one who seems to be determined to deny mary any other equipment than a mop

Absolutely not, I am taking the instruction from the "plan".

Are you aware that cleaning is best achieved using a general purpose detergent and warm water, clean cloths, mops and the mechanical action of wiping and cleaning, following by rinsing and drying

It even gives Mary clear instructions how to wipe.

Airborne transmission doesn't exist and Mary will kill all the covid with mechanical wiping.

I trust the document, you don't seem sure, why is that?

KerryConnor

Did it actually start with "are you aware"?
A bit like "please remember..."

Weird language to use in an official guidelines.

Boggles wrote: »

Absolutely not, I am taking the instruction from the "plan".



It even gives Mary clear instructions how to wipe.

Airborne transmission doesn't exist and Mary will kill all the covid with mechanical wiping.

I trust the document, you don't seem sure, why is that?

Alrigghtythen

Boggles wrote: »

Absolutely not, I am taking the instruction from the "plan".



It even gives Mary clear instructions how to wipe.

Airborne transmission doesn't exist and Mary will kill all the covid with mechanical wiping.

I trust the document, you don't seem sure, why is that?

The countrys roadmap covers all society

Another poster said that some money should be spent training cleaners to clean properly. Yet you seem offended with a procedure for cleaning.

Where in the document does it limit cleaning to mechanical wiping?

wirelessdude01

Boggles wrote: »

Absolutely not, I am taking the instruction from the "plan".



It even gives Mary clear instructions how to wipe.

Airborne transmission doesn't exist and Mary will kill all the covid with mechanical wiping.

I trust the document, you don't seem sure, why is that?

Guessing Mary will have to take part in an hour long webinar as well on mechanical wiping.

Did you ever read such rubbish.

wirelessdude01

Boggles wrote: »

Absolutely not, I am taking the instruction from the "plan".



It even gives Mary clear instructions how to wipe.

Airborne transmission doesn't exist and Mary will kill all the covid with mechanical wiping.

I trust the document, you don't seem sure, why is that?

Guessing Mary will have to take part in an hour long webinar as well on mechanical wiping.

Did you ever read such rubbish.

Boggles

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Where in the document does it limit cleaning to mechanical wiping?

How much is a robot that can wipe?

Murple

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Pg3

As the public health restrictions are lifted and there are no longer detailed rules in place imposed by the State, everybody in society will now exercise their own judgement and take personal responsibility for decisions that they make about the risk of infection to themselves and to others in different situations. A risk assessment framework or checklist may be of assistance to individuals and families, as well as to organisations, businesses, schools, community groups etc. in making decisions about how to assess the risk of different activities and take actions to lower the risk of spreading infection. It is important that there is continued commitment across society from all arms of the State, organisations, employers, businesses and individuals to work together to collectively promote, support and encourage everyone in society to adhere to the core public health principles as effectively as possible, as often as possible, and in as many situations as possible, for the benefit of all.



Why do you think the schools are excluded?


Maybe we could get mary a dishwasher, uv light and a fogger?

They may all be useful to have but it's bit of a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Imagine- pristine clean classroom and toys. All have been cleaned by dishwasher, uv light or fogged as appropriate. Children arrive in to the classroom. No social distancing required as its First Class. None really possible anyway as senior classes have been prioritised for the bigger classrooms as they need to be 1 metre apart. 30 children in the room sitting elbow to elbow and facing others for almost 6 hours. Wet day so no going out. The two windows on one wall opened to the max (the max being about 6-8 inches as they are fitted with safety catches. Classroom door can't be left open as one child is a flight risk.)
Is it going to matter that the toys etc. have been treated by uv light when the children are together in a confined space for almost 6 hours, behaving as any regular 6-7 year old behaves (take that as covering coughs if they remember, sanitising hands then picking nose within seconds, washing hands after the toilet only if they want to delay getting back to the classroom etc- they will try but they are little).

As for asking why should schools be excluded, well we are asking ourselves the same when 2m social distancing and wearing masks in indoor settings are recommended everywhere but schools.

Alrigghtythen

Murple wrote: »

They may all be useful to have but it's bit of a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Imagine- pristine clean classroom and toys. All have been cleaned by dishwasher, uv light or fogged as appropriate. Children arrive in to the classroom. No social distancing required as its First Class. None really possible anyway as senior classes have been prioritised for the bigger classrooms as they need to be 1 metre apart. 30 children in the room sitting elbow to elbow and facing others for almost 6 hours. Wet day so no going out. The two windows on one wall opened to the max (the max being about 6-8 inches as they are fitted with safety catches. Classroom door can't be left open as one child is a flight risk.)
Is it going to matter that the toys etc. have been treated by uv light when the children are together in a confined space for almost 6 hours, behaving as any regular 6-7 year old behaves (take that as covering coughs if they remember, sanitising hands then picking nose within seconds, washing hands after the toilet only if they want to delay getting back to the classroom etc- they will try but they are little).

As for asking why should schools be excluded, well we are asking ourselves the same when 2m social distancing and wearing masks in indoor settings are recommended everywhere but schools.

If the toys can't be cleaned effectively, they will be removed.

Schools arent excluded, the outcome of the risk assessment is different

Frankx

All sounds like window dressing to me

Sure the kids will be all bunching and hanging out in groups anyway outside of class

Alrigghtythen

Boggles wrote: »

How much is a robot that can wipe?

Are you letting Mary go?

Boggles

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Are you letting Mary go?

Hardly, Mary is an actual real person.

Not only is she the cleaner for my local school, she is also the lollipop lady.

Has been for 37 years.

No fancy robot can ever replace Mary.

She has some tongue on her though, and I can only imagine if the principal drags her in to watch a 'how to mechanically wipe a table' video on youtube, he will get fúcked from a height.

Alrigghtythen

Boggles wrote: »

Hardly, Mary is an actual real person.

Not only is she the cleaner for my local school, she is also the lollipop lady.

Has been for 37 years.

No fancy robot can ever replace Mary.

She has some tongue on her though, and I can only imagine if the principal drags her in to watch a 'how to mechanically wipe a table' video on youtube, he will get fúcked from a height.

And if a covid spreads through the school from half assed cleaning and the school are asked what basic training did you do in response to covid? What will be the response? The cleaner refused to cooperate and the principal was afraid of her so there was no training

Boggles

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

And if a covid spreads through the school from half assed cleaning and the school are asked what basic training did you do in response to covid? What will be the response? The cleaner refused to cooperate and the principal was a afraid of her so there wa no training

She has been a cleaner for 37 years. What do you think she will be able to learn off a 30 minute youtube video that she hasn't learned in you know 37 years actually cleaning?

Has there been a technological break through in the method of mechanical wiping since the 80s?

To be honest I'm more concerned about her getting sick from the airborne transmission that doesn't exist.

Alrigghtythen

Boggles wrote: »

She has been a cleaner for 37 years. What do you think she will be able to learn off a 30 minute youtube video that she hasn't learned in you know 37 years actually cleaning?

Has there been a technological break through in the method of mechanical wiping since the 80s?

To be honest I'm more concerned about her getting sick from the airborne transmission that doesn't exist.

How many other covid pandemics has she cleaned through?

Procedures like that are standard in many other industries that have to maintain a good level of hygiene. You seem horrified, but they are standard cleaning procedures.

Murple

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

And if a covid spreads through the school from half assed cleaning and the school are asked what basic training did you do in response to covid? What will be the response? The cleaner refused to cooperate and the principal was afraid of her so there was no training

It's far more likely to spread through the school as a result of overcrowded classrooms and lack of space between children than it is because the cleaning wasn't done according to the yet to be produced training video.

Alrigghtythen

Murple wrote: »

It's far more likely to spread through the school as a result of overcrowded classrooms and lack of space between children than it is because the cleaning wasn't done according to the yet to be produced training video.

If that's the outcome of the risk assessment at the school the securing extra space is the priority to go in tandem with enhanced cleaning

People have all sorts of different ideas and standards about how well and how often things should be cleaned.

Boggles

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

How many other covid pandemics has she cleaned through?

All of them since the 80s, including all the other viruses and diseases that love schools.

Again though, have we a different technology now on how to mechanically wipe a table than we did in the 80s?

You seem to think that there will be a crack team of super deep cleaners available to every school.

You need to start engaging with reality.

There is Mary and maybe her sister who helps out occasionally if there is an extra few quid to pay her, that is it.

s1ippy

Aside from resignation, what are the options for at-risk teachers and SNAs who cannot safely return? It was asked and not answered here:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2020-07-30/12/?highlight%5B0%5D=covid

Alrigghtythen

Boggles wrote: »

All of them since the 80s, including all the other viruses and diseases that love schools.

Again though, have we a different technology now on how to mechanically wipe a table than we did in the 80s?

You seem to think that there will be a crack team of super deep cleaners available to every school.

You need to start engaging with reality.

There is Mary and maybe her sister who helps out occasionally if there is an extra few quid to pay her, that is it.

Mary has been doing it for years and yet You dont seem to classify them as a team of crack cleaners?

Has mary used a fogger before?
Do they know what additional surfaces she will have to now clean with the reviewed enhanced cleaning programme determined?
Will she know how often to do each surface and the correct concentration of each chemical to use?
Does she know how to protect herself when cleaning?
If Mary's sick are there procedures that her sister can follow if she needs to step in to the role to cover?

What is the school spending the funding for enhanced cleaning on?

Boggles

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Has mary used a fogger before?

Yeah, she did a bit of DJing in the late 80s.