How will schools be able to go back in September?

jimmytwotimes 2013

markodaly wrote: »

It would be like asking an Arts student to design a rocket ship, they cannot because they have no experience or qualification in it. Teachers are the same, they are qualified to teach, that's it. Running something, other than a class? Nope.

Can you perform any function outside of your specific qualifications? Are all professionals lost once they meet something they didn't specifically train for?

deiseindublin

Jimmy - I know it's tempting but we shouldn't feed the trolls. Fair enough if somebody has something to actually add, but it's pointless replying to a handful of posters, that ruin the thread for those that actually want to contribute AND know something about schools.

Being a smart arse with a chip on one's shoulder doesn't qualify one as knowing how best to reopen schools, this thread is a testament to that.

am_zarathustra

Have many people experienced schools insisting themselves on masks? I know it's early days but all I'm hearing is third party whispers so hard to know the general sentiment out there

deiseindublin

I'd imagine it's actually a case of schools implementing the guidelines, as they say to use masks where 1m is not possible. It's probably not possible in 95% of our schools so they're only doing as Norma et al told them.

Voltairey

My school have a policy that they're going with which aligns with the science from as long ago as March. Example: if you require a mask you need to produce a medical certificate stating why. Aside from being a violation of our right to privacy, this discourages people who want to protect vulnerable people from wearing them.

I'm in (what I hope would be regarded as) the high-risk category (recent transplant patient) and feel my options to return safely are limited. I emailed a list of suggestions to my principal since the guidance came out and I spent all week last week attempting to set up my class to be safe, but the space just isn't there for the 27 students, even with pods. There is nowhere to walk in the room and it's a fire hazard. I have tried consulting with the unions to find out if there is any way of making it safer. I have a letter of resignation on standby and I'm lucky to be in a position to be able to support myself for the foreseeable with online work I have been able to make a profit off, but I'm sad to be leaving what I had intended to be my vocation.

Murple

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

There may be localised closures and the measures taken by that individual school reviewed. Summer holidays next year could be staggered by province

Just to clarify, are you saying that if there is a Covid outbreak or cluster in a school, that the school will be somehow responsible?
Shove 30 people into a room for 6 hours where they have little space to move but if there is a cluster of cases of a highly infectious disease (that we've been told for months to avoid transmission by maintaining 2m distance from everyone) then it must be down to neglectful practices by the school?
I'm beginning to think Alrigghtythen that you work in the Department of Education.

average_runner

Murple wrote: »

Just to clarify, are you saying that if there is a Covid outbreak or cluster in a school, that the school will be somehow responsible?
Shove 30 people into a room for 6 hours where they have little space to move but if there is a cluster of cases of a highly infectious disease (that we've been told for months to avoid transmission by maintaining 2m distance from everyone) then it must be down to neglectful practices by the school?
I'm beginning to think Alrigghtythen that you work in the Department of Education.

If that 30 people stay in that pod then it should be easy to isolate them

Alrigghtythen

Murple wrote: »

Just to clarify, are you saying that if there is a Covid outbreak or cluster in a school, that the school will be somehow responsible?
Shove 30 people into a room for 6 hours where they have little space to move but if there is a cluster of cases of a highly infectious disease (that we've been told for months to avoid transmission by maintaining 2m distance from everyone) then it must be down to neglectful practices by the school?
I'm beginning to think Alrigghtythen that you work in the Department of Education.

If the school do not implement measures and take preventative steps, yes they will be responsible

lulublue22

average_runner wrote: »

If that 30 people stay in that pod then it should be easy to isolate them

How can those on school transport isolate ?

Charles Babbage

markodaly wrote: »

So... I see the Dept. of Education have released their plans and everyone is happy....

...and we have seen a barage of complaints.
Look, I guess some of it is warranted, but again teachers seem most vocal (surprise, surprise) about all the 'what if' scenario's.

I stand by my first post about this topic, that there is no leadership in education anymore and the Dept. of Eduation, the Unions are all so closed minded, and nuerted by decades of inertia and backwards thinking that they cannot even if they wanted to, 'get on with it'.

It would be like asking an Arts student to design a rocket ship, they cannot because they have no experience or qualification in it. Teachers are the same, they are qualified to teach, that's it. Running something, other than a class? Nope.

All the same I would hazard a guess that your average teacher is more familiar with the layout and associated problems of their own school than randomers on the Internet are.

Yes the health experts are the qualified people in this matter, but their advice is 2m distancing and so forth and people familiar with the detail are merely pointing out that this isn't possible in their particular location.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Voltairey wrote: »

My school have a policy that they're going with which aligns with the science from as long ago as March. Example: if you require a mask you need to produce a medical certificate stating why. Aside from being a violation of our right to privacy, this discourages people who want to protect vulnerable people from wearing them.

Your employer really doesn't have a right to your medical information. Same applies if someone can't wear a mask in school due to medical reasons, they aren't obliged to give any further information on the actual medical reason.

It's confidential health care data and your medical cert if anything at all should just read "Voltairey is required to wear a mask for medical reasons" or if you can't wear a mask "Voltairey cannot wear a mask for medical reasons".

Your GP will tell you the same, it's none of the schools business at all and they should give you the cert with the above on it.

Risteard81

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I think all staff and all students from 3rd up should be wearing masks

Why are you opposed to teachers and pupils breathing?


Masks should be illegal in almost all settings.

Murple

Voltairey wrote: »

My school have a policy that they're going with which aligns with the science from as long ago as March. Example: if you require a mask you need to produce a medical certificate stating why. Aside from being a violation of our right to privacy, this discourages people who want to protect vulnerable people from wearing them.

I'm in (what I hope would be regarded as) the high-risk category (recent transplant patient) and feel my options to return safely are limited. I emailed a list of suggestions to my principal since the guidance came out and I spent all week last week attempting to set up my class to be safe, but the space just isn't there for the 27 students, even with pods. There is nowhere to walk in the room and it's a fire hazard. I have tried consulting with the unions to find out if there is any way of making it safer. I have a letter of resignation on standby and I'm lucky to be in a position to be able to support myself for the foreseeable with online work I have been able to make a profit off, but I'm sad to be leaving what I had intended to be my vocation.

Voltairey, I think you would be in the 'very high risk' category. Ideally someone like you would be utilised by the department to provide support for students who also can't return and your role would be covered by a sub. I believe there is tobe further enlightenment from the department on the issue of at risk teachers.
Interestingly, 3rd level has already stated that those in both the very high risk and high risk categories will not been required onsite at all. For both primary and secondary, it has been specified that only those in the very high risk category will be enticed to special measures.

wirelessdude01

Risteard81 wrote: »

Why are you opposed to teachers and pupils breathing?


Masks should be illegal in almost all settings.

Ohh dear god. They don't stop you breathing.

Suppose your anti-vax as well.

deiseindublin

I wonder where TUI stand on the difference in guidelines between their 2nd level and 3rd level members? And what happens in buildings with Further Ed and second level sharing a campus. It's absolutely absurd.

Murple

average_runner wrote: »

If that 30 people stay in that pod then it should be easy to isolate them

But some of those 30 people have siblings in other classes. Some of those 30 people travel of the same bus in the morning and afternoon. Some of those 30 are supported by a SET who must also work in 5 other classes, has to cover for teacher absences and spends a number of hours a week in another school. Those 30 people also share a toilet block with 3 other classes.
Yep, really easy to stay in that pod.
Schools can do all the cleaning they want and stagger breaks and hometime but the biggest risk is proximity. Even within one of the classroom layouts to illustrate how to keep pupils a metre apart, they have a whole row of pupils that are 40cm apart.

Risteard81

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ohh dear god. They don't stop you breathing.

Suppose your anti-vax as well.

I have no issue with vaccines generally, but if you think that I'm going to take a largely untested, rushed vaccine for something which isn't actually dangerous then you're frankly nuts.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Your employer really doesn't have a right to your medical information. Same applies if someone can't wear a mask in school due to medical reasons, they aren't obliged to give any further information on the actual medical reason.

It's confidential health care data and your medical cert if anything at all should just read "Voltairey is required to wear a mask for medical reasons" or if you can't wear a mask "Voltairey cannot wear a mask for medical reasons".

Your GP will tell you the same, it's none of the schools business at all and they should give you the cert with the above on it.

There is an occupational healthcare programme for teachers and SNAs A report is furnished to the principal.
Voltairey will be in the high risk category and accommodation will be made.

downthemiddle

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Your employer really doesn't have a right to your medical information. Same applies if someone can't wear a mask in school due to medical reasons, they aren't obliged to give any further information on the actual medical reason.

It's confidential health care data and your medical cert if anything at all should just read "Voltairey is required to wear a mask for medical reasons" or if you can't wear a mask "Voltairey cannot wear a mask for medical reasons".

Your GP will tell you the same, it's none of the schools business at all and they should give you the cert with the above on it.

There is an occupational healthcare programme for teachers and SNAs A report is furnished to the principal.
Voltairey will be in the high risk category and accommodation will be made.

Voltairey

Murple wrote: »

For both primary and secondary, it has been specified that only those in the very high risk category will be enticed to special measures.

I found that very disheartening and even moreso the fact that we have no information and are left with a knot of uncertainty and anxiety instead of given an assurance we will be safe. I am far from being alone in my situation. I am 33 years old so stand a better chance than the 10 60+ staff members in my school, several of whom I know have underlying conditions. I have not announced my resignation yet as I'm hoping for clarity early next week but I feel like I'll be the first domino.

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Your employer really doesn't have a right to your medical information. Same applies if someone can't wear a mask in school due to medical reasons, they aren't obliged to give any further information on the actual medical reason.

It's confidential health care data and your medical cert if anything at all should just read "Voltairey is required to wear a mask for medical reasons" or if you can't wear a mask "Voltairey cannot wear a mask for medical reasons".

Your GP will tell you the same, it's none of the schools business at all and they should give you the cert with the above on it.

I asked my doctor and she said that if you don't disclose the medical reason for something, right or wrong, it throws up speculation and suspicion. Whatever the law says about privacy, there are going to be people questioning the legitimacy of your claim when you are vague with your health issue.

Personally any of my colleagues I'm friendly with know that I have the transplant as I took time off for surgery and I'm sure word has spread, so I'm not bothered about my own situation. But there are other at-risk staff and students who are not being catered to with the current plan. We're too crowded and it's freezing there at the moment so I can't even imagine what winter will be like.

downthemiddle

Voltairey wrote: »

I found that very disheartening and even moreso the fact that we have no information and are left with a knot of uncertainty and anxiety instead of given an assurance we will be safe. I am far from being alone in my situation. I am 33 years old so stand a better chance than the 10 60+ staff members in my school, several of whom I know have underlying conditions. I have not announced my resignation yet as I'm hoping for clarity early next week but I feel like I'll be the first domino.


I asked my doctor and she said that if you don't disclose the medical reason for something, right or wrong, it throws up speculation and suspicion. Whatever the law says about privacy, there are going to be people questioning the legitimacy of your claim when you are vague with your health issue.

Personally any of my colleagues I'm friendly with know that I have the transplant as I took time off for surgery and I'm sure word has spread, so I'm not bothered about my own situation. But there are other at-risk staff and students who are not being catered to with the current plan. We're too crowded and it's freezing there at the moment so I can't even imagine what winter will be like.

There is a circular due on protocols for high risk staff.

Blondini

"Let’s stay the course by physically distancing, washing hands regularly, wearing a face covering where appropriate, avoiding crowds and doing all we can to protect each other."

Words of the CMO today. So basically everything that's not going to happen in most schools.

No thanks.

downthemiddle

Risteard81 wrote: »

Why are you opposed to teachers and pupils breathing?


Masks should be illegal in almost all settings.

I’ll humour you. Please tell us why masks should be illegal.

wirelessdude01

downthemiddle wrote: »

There is a circular due on protocols for high risk staff.

This really should have been part of the initial document drop as it could have huge implications with regards to hiring new staff in schools.

Risteard81

downthemiddle wrote: »

I’ll humour you. Please tell us why masks should be illegal.

It's far more logical than making them mandatory.

downthemiddle

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's far more logical than making them mandatory.

That’s really cleared things up!!!

is_that_so

Blondini wrote: »

"Let’s stay the course by physically distancing, washing hands regularly, wearing a face covering where appropriate, avoiding crowds and doing all we can to protect each other."

Words of the CMO today. So basically everything that's not going to happen in most schools.

No thanks.

Very young primary aside, why do you imagine that people will suddenly alter their now embedded behaviour just because they step inside a school door?

wirelessdude01

is_that_so wrote: »

Very young primary aside, why do you imagine that people will suddenly alter their now embedded behaviour just because they step inside a school door?

People are becoming lax. I was at a GAA club game today. Standing near a hand sanitiser dispenser. I counted just three people including myself who used it. I overheard one group making fun of people wearing masks. Once schools are back then people will begin to mentally switch off as 'it's all back to normal'.

Grandeeod

Blondini wrote: »

"Let’s stay the course by physically distancing, washing hands regularly, wearing a face covering where appropriate, avoiding crowds and doing all we can to protect each other."

Words of the CMO today. So basically everything that's not going to happen in most schools.

No thanks.

This is it exactly.

is_that_so

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

People are becoming lax. I was at a GAA club game today. Standing near a hand sanitiser dispenser. I counted just three people including myself who used it. I overheard one group making fun of people wearing masks. Once schools are back then people will begin to mentally switch off as 'it's all back to normal'.

Yeah, but schools are excellent environments for conditioning and enforcing compliance! If the systems are set up in schools anyway well, they should be able to maintain standards. As for other locations we have mentally worked out our levels of risk and a sense of people treating certain occasions as normal is not unsurprising.