How will schools be able to go back in September?

Blondini

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, but schools are excellent environments for conditioning and enforcing compliance!

Hahaha hahaha .... Haha!

markodaly

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Can you perform any function outside of your specific qualifications? Are all professionals lost once they meet something they didn't specifically train for?

Teachers shouldn't be running schools anyway, they have no qualifications in it. They are qualified to teach, that is it!

Just because I work in a tech firm as a developer doesn't mean I know how to run a tech business and make key management or business decisions.

Get qualified people in to run schools. It is long long overdue, as the cluster **** we have seen over the past few months as gotten us here.

wirelessdude01

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, but schools are excellent environments for conditioning and enforcing compliance! If the systems are set up in schools anyway well, they should be able to maintain standards. As for other locations we have mentally worked out our levels of risk and a sense of people treating certain occasions as normal is not unsurprising.

Sorry for the delay in responding as I destroyed my keyboard after splurting out my drink.

I know full well I'll have kids saying my mam said I don't have to use the school provided hand sanitiser because(insert some reason).

wirelessdude01

markodaly wrote: »

Teachers shouldn't be running schools anyway, they have no qualifications in it. They are qualified to teach, that is it!

You do know that a masters in school/education leadership is pretty much the minimum criteria to get an interview for principalship these days.

is_that_so

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Sorry for the delay in responding as I destroyed my keyboard after splurting out my drink.

I know full well I'll have kids saying my mam said I don't have to use the school provided hand sanitiser because(insert some reason).

Oh yeah, that's true but all you can do is drone on about it all day every day and hope it sinks into some little minds. Most people doing most things ...

brendanwalsh

Voltairey wrote: »

I found that very disheartening and even moreso the fact that we have no information and are left with a knot of uncertainty and anxiety instead of given an assurance we will be safe. I am far from being alone in my situation. I am 33 years old so stand a better chance than the 10 60+ staff members in my school, several of whom I know have underlying conditions. I have not announced my resignation yet as I'm hoping for clarity early next week but I feel like I'll be the first domino.


I asked my doctor and she said that if you don't disclose the medical reason for something, right or wrong, it throws up speculation and suspicion. Whatever the law says about privacy, there are going to be people questioning the legitimacy of your claim when you are vague with your health issue.

Personally any of my colleagues I'm friendly with know that I have the transplant as I took time off for surgery and I'm sure word has spread, so I'm not bothered about my own situation. But there are other at-risk staff and students who are not being catered to with the current plan. We're too crowded and it's freezing there at the moment so I can't even imagine what winter will be like.

There has been no consideration for people on immunosuppressants or with underlying conditions.
This government don’t give a hoot.
Personally I would not resign and would just go sick, get your doctor to write you a letter saying it’s unsafe for you to work due to medical illness

markodaly

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You do know that a masters in school/education leadership is pretty much the minimum criteria to get an interview for principalship these days.

And?

Normally these positions go to the person who was there longest in the school teaching.

Any principal should be required to go and learn some sort of MBA type of qualification as a statuary requirement.

wirelessdude01

markodaly wrote: »

And?

Normally these positions go to the person who was there longest in the school teaching.
.

May have been the case but not necessarily so now. Just shows how out of touch you are with the reality of education now. We all knew this though from your postings on these threads.

jimmytwotimes 2013

markodaly wrote: »

?

Normally these positions go to the person who was there longest in the school teaching.

This isn't true.

Your tech analogy. Are most tech companies started by someone who was in tech anyway? Apple, Microsoft etc. People up-skill, people emerge as leaders etc. All teachers aren't morons

deiseindublin

is_that_so wrote: »

Very young primary aside, why do you imagine that people will suddenly alter their now embedded behaviour just because they step inside a school door?

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, but schools are excellent environments for conditioning and enforcing compliance!

Have you ever supervised 30 x 15 year olds for a few hours?

Alrigghtythen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Sorry for the delay in responding as I destroyed my keyboard after splurting out my drink.

I know full well I'll have kids saying my mam said I don't have to use the school provided hand sanitiser because(insert some reason).

It should be non optional. If the dont use it as required, they should get sent home.

am_zarathustra

markodaly wrote: »

And?

Normally these positions go to the person who was there longest in the school teaching.

Any principal should be required to go and learn some sort of MBA type of qualification as a statuary requirement.

Not in the last ten years at least. I've been through 4 management changes in the last few years, all external candidates with masters in leadership and management.

The nuns and brothers used to run most of the schools too, believe it or not they don't now!

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

It should be non optional. If the dont use it as required, they should get sent home.

See this is where the government need to say it's compulsory. We don't have a leg to stand on otherwise. We aren't like a shop that set their own rules. I saw a shop refuse entry to a father and son the other day because they hadn't masks on.

am_zarathustra

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

This isn't true.

Your tech analogy. Are most tech companies started by someone who was in tech anyway? Apple, Microsoft etc. People up-skill, people emerge as leaders etc. All teachers aren't morons

Sure Bill Gates, what would he know about running a company, he's only a programmer........

Blondini

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

It should be non optional. If the dont use it as required, they should get sent home.

Riiiiggght.... I've seen a student headbutt a teacher and not get sent home.

am_zarathustra

Voltairey wrote: »

I found that very disheartening and even moreso the fact that we have no information and are left with a knot of uncertainty and anxiety instead of given an assurance we will be safe. I am far from being alone in my situation. I am 33 years old so stand a better chance than the 10 60+ staff members in my school, several of whom I know have underlying conditions. I have not announced my resignation yet as I'm hoping for clarity early next week but I feel like I'll be the first domino.


I asked my doctor and she said that if you don't disclose the medical reason for something, right or wrong, it throws up speculation and suspicion. Whatever the law says about privacy, there are going to be people questioning the legitimacy of your claim when you are vague with your health issue.

Personally any of my colleagues I'm friendly with know that I have the transplant as I took time off for surgery and I'm sure word has spread, so I'm not bothered about my own situation. But there are other at-risk staff and students who are not being catered to with the current plan. We're too crowded and it's freezing there at the moment so I can't even imagine what winter will be like.

Hopefully there will be a clear pathway for you next week. It must be a tough position to be in.

Can I ask, if there was a centralised system where you could teach from home, and I think you are primary from your comments, would you be willing to do say an hour every day with 4 students working from home for the year and keep your employment with the DOE?

Alrigghtythen

Blondini wrote: »

Riiiiggght.... I've seen a student headbutt a teacher and not get sent home.

And the plan is to sit back and let them spread covid?

am_zarathustra

Blondini wrote: »

Riiiiggght.... I've seen a student headbutt a teacher and not get sent home.

Finding drugs on a kid, standing in the doorway refusing to allow staff to leave a room.....I mean obviously telling staff to f off etc......but yeah, I can see the DOE backing us on hand sanitizing and masks.

We tried to stop a kid coming to a school because he was involved in an actual drug feud with kids in the school, months of absolute chaos, scary stuff and we only managed to stop that as he was caught committing a fairly serious assault, on site on cctv in front of several witnesses, but yeah I can see the EWOs taking us very seriously about masks

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

And the plan is to sit back and let them spread covid?

Seems like the department's plan alright.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

And the plan is to sit back and let them spread covid?

Hopefully parents will back the efforts of schools.

However, parents often refuse to come and collect their Johnny if he's landed in trouble for acting the absolute maggot.

wirelessdude01

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Hopefully parents will back the efforts of schools.

However, parents often refuse to come and collect their Johnny if he's landed in trouble for acting the absolute maggot.

Or if Johnny is sick.

am_zarathustra

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

And the plan is to sit back and let them spread covid?

I think you think we have a hell of a lot more agency than we do.

Kid comes in without a mask.

Are we allowed to send them home? We are not by the way under current law without making contact with home......

So whoever is in charge of the kid doesn't answer, where do we put them? In a packed school, again remember they are refusing to follow instructions so god knows what they are at out of school?

So I contact the year head. Again try home, try and talk to the kid. Probably try home again......no answer

Now in my stretched school I have to organise supervision for this child for the day (normally they would go to their year heads room (now a classroom full of students) or be left with the deputy, maybe the office if we are stuck (again unsuitable as they are tiny so SD of an unmasked, uncooperative child impossible)

Try home again, no answer. Try the home school liaison then maybe, see if she can swing by if she isn't in a meeting. Still no answer. Kid is agitated now, might be on something, more likely coming down. Probably means they were at a house party the previous night....have to hand over to principal to deal with because I have class.Do they have an EWO, is it one I know, are they any good/liekly to answer their phone? Now she starts all the phonecalls again.

No one is going to answer, they never do, we know this. But we can't send the kid home. We can't let them near any other student and every staff member in contact with this child is in danger.

These are not hypothetical. This will happen the first week we are back in my school to me. Some kids will storm out and that might be the best case scenario.

Students in a school are not employees.......I cant just send them home or fire them

Charles Babbage

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

See this is where the government need to say it's compulsory. We don't have a leg to stand on otherwise. We aren't like a shop that set their own rules. I saw a shop refuse entry to a father and son the other day because they hadn't masks on.

The government needed to say that masks were compulsory but that schools could allow them not be used in specific defined circumstances. Anything else is nonsense.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Charles Babbage wrote: »

The government needed to say that masks were compulsory but that schools could allow them not be used in specific defined circumstances. Anything else is nonsense.

Are there any European schools that have full mandatory mask wearing for pupils in schools?

From what I can tell there aren't.

They are mandatory in some countries secondary schools in certain circumstances e.g moving through communal areas or similar to our own guidance where SD can't be maintained.

But I don't know if any European country has a blanket compulsory mask wearing rule for pupils in schools.

We need to be careful and take a balanced approach to it. Schools have been open for many weeks across Europe and it hasn't led to a significant increase in cases in those settings.

Newbienoob

Creches are open 5 weeks now with a single case reported... Which I read was due to the worker travelling, not the creche.
Do the creches have 30 kids with one childcare assistant? I thought their ratios were MUCH lower

Creches have a higher ratio of staff to kids plus not all kids have returned yet so small amount of kids in a tiny pod. Very very different set up to classrooms. Local creche has only a third of kids back and don't anticipate full return until September. Also we won't hear about it..did they test all the kids where the staff member had it? Test all the staff? The narrative the media is portraying is kids don't spread it so as schools return as normal.

helpful

Newbienoob wrote: »

Creches are open 5 weeks now with a single case reported... Which I read was due to the worker travelling, not the creche.
Do the creches have 30 kids with one childcare assistant? I thought their ratios were MUCH lower

Creches have a higher ratio of staff to kids plus not all kids have returned yet so small amount of kids in a tiny pod. Very very different set up to classrooms. Local creche has only a third of kids back and don't anticipate full return until September. Also we won't hear about it..did they test all the kids where the staff member had it? Test all the staff? The narrative the media is portraying is kids don't spread it so as schools return as normal.

Talking to a crèche worker recently who said that everything just seems normal and she isn’t sure why the teachers are making such a big deal out of it. I’m not sure what her numbers are but I know in preschool the ratio is 1 adult for 11 children. Preschool aged children would be less likely to comprehend social distancing so if they’re doing it I’m sure children in formal education will cope. They’ll need to be told the rules and a strict adherence enforced.

alroley

My cousin has sent her kids back to creche and they are in a pod with 5 other children. The staff member only interacts with children in their pod.

Over the course of the week I would teach around 170-200 students (my classes have 25 - 30 in them)

It is ridiculous to compare a creche to a school.

Scoondal

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Are there any European schools that have full mandatory mask wearing for pupils in schools?

From what I can tell there aren't.

They are mandatory in some countries secondary schools in certain circumstances e.g moving through communal areas or similar to our own guidance where SD can't be maintained.

But I don't know if any European country has a blanket compulsory mask wearing rule for pupils in schools.

We need to be careful and take a balanced approach to it. Schools have been open for many weeks across Europe and it hasn't led to a significant increase in cases in those settings.

Of course normal European countries have had schools back with sensible changes. But Ireland is totally diiferent because we can't cope with this problem.

Newbienoob

alroley wrote: »

My cousin has sent her kids back to creche and they are in a pod with 5 other children. The staff member only interacts with children in their pod.

Over the course of the week I would teach around 170-200 students (my classes have 25 - 30 in them)

It is ridiculous to compare a creche to a school.

Exactly well said. Very very different when you've 1 teacher with 30 kids.

Alrigghtythen

Scoondal wrote: »

Of course normal European countries have had schools back with sensible changes. But Ireland is totally diiferent because we can't cope with this problem.

Who cant cope? The rest of the country and department can cope, so who cant?