How will schools be able to go back in September?

BoatMad

Lillyfae wrote: »

....

For teachers you're all very good at missing the point. And again, paraphrasing badly seems to be higher priority than addressing my suggestions.

practical suggestions are one thing , suggestions based on lack of any understanding of the situation on the ground are entirely another

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

Come off it. Teachers commenting on the public health advice with their own public health advice is what I'm referring to. It's clear how schools work (or don't work) in this case, but why not rally the INTO and ASTI to get on to the DoE about substandard practices, infrastructure etc etc, rather than saying "That's not my place"??

For teachers you're all very good at missing the point. And again, paraphrasing badly seems to be higher priority than addressing my suggestions.

Teachers for years are going on about substandard practices infrastructure etc but the public generally are deaf and only hear if it affects them directly, until events occur like this when all school experts pop out of the woodwork to tell us how to do our jobs. Why dont the new experts like yourself contact the department instead of keyboard warrioring?

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

Teachers for years are going on about substandard practices infrastructure etc but the public generally are deaf and only hear if it affects them directly, until events occur like this when all school experts pop out of the woodwork to tell us how to do our jobs. Why dont the new experts like yourself contact the department instead of keyboard warrioring?

I don't work in your industry, have no child in education in Ireland and won't. Contact your own department, apparently you are the expert, in about 4 different fields :rolleyes:. If my child's educators where I live had the attitude of some of the teachers here, I'm sure that they would be given their marching orders, even though they are an equally heavily unionised group. As such they won't wait for someone to say "here comes the airplane" before opening their mouths.

BoatMad

Lillyfae wrote: »

Come off it. Teachers commenting on the public health advice with their own public health advice is what I'm referring to. It's clear how schools work (or don't work) in this case, but why not rally the INTO and ASTI to get on to the DoE about substandard practices, infrastructure etc etc, rather than saying "That's not my place"??

For teachers you're all very good at missing the point. And again, paraphrasing badly seems to be higher priority than addressing my suggestions.

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't work in your industry, have no child in education in Ireland and won't. Contact your own department, apparently you are the expert, in about 4 different fields :rolleyes:. If my child's educators where I live had the attitude of some of the teachers here, I'm sure that they would be given their marching orders, even though they are an equally heavily unionised group. As such they won't wait for someone to say "here comes the airplane" before opening their mouths.

great , another hurler on the ditch with no skin in the game, at least your honest about it

Lillyfae

BoatMad wrote: »

great , another hurler on the ditch with no skin in the game, at least your honest about it

Apologies, I don't speak GAA analogies. Doesn't matter where a solution comes from, if it's feasible it should be considered. All some of you seem to be able for is picking holes and creating more issues rather than putting your heads together and doing something proactive.

BoatMad

Lillyfae wrote: »

Apologies, I don't speak GAA analogies. Doesn't matter where a solution comes from, if it's feasible it should be considered. All some of you seem to be able for is picking holes and creating more issues rather than putting your heads together and doing something proactive.

its not that , its when practical suggestions are put forward ( like predicted grades ) or alternative schools days etc , people howl that its all unfair

The world is in a different place, there is a new normal , I dont like it , but I accept it ( reluctantly ) some people seem to want to just critique any solution

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't work in your industry, have no child in education in Ireland and won't. Contact your own department, apparently you are the expert, in about 4 different fields :rolleyes:. If my child's educators where I live had the attitude of some of the teachers here, I'm sure that they would be given their marching orders, even though they are an equally heavily unionised group. As such they won't wait for someone to say "here comes the airplane" before opening their mouths.

So you are a keyboard warrior, thank you for proving my point

Lillyfae

BoatMad wrote: »

its not that , its when practical suggestions are put forward ( like predicted grades ) or alternative schools days etc , people howl that its all unfair

I haven't done suggested anything of the sort, in fact, I agree that predicted grades would be a fiasco. There's no preparation for any kind of continuous assessment because teachers have been throwing roadblocks in front of that for years. Would have helped in this situation.

IT infrastructure doesn't exist but can be made to very easily. This should have been prioritised at the very beginning of all this, not in 2 weeks time, which was my original criticism. Training might not be in place but there are plenty of resources, just look at suggestions that have been made here. Again, pro-activeness is required, some teachers here have outlined how they're going about it.

BoatMad wrote: »

The world is in a different place, there is a new normal , I dont like it , but I accept it ( reluctantly ) some people seem to want to just critique any solution

Where is the solution? I haven't critiqued any solutions, but attitudes. We can accept the situation but that doesn't mean giving up totally because things might require a different process.

khalessi wrote: »

So you are a keyboard warrior, thank you for proving my point

Is it the school holidays or something?

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

I haven't done suggested anything of the sort, in fact, I agree that predicted grades would be a fiasco. There's no preparation for any kind of continuous assessment because teachers have been throwing roadblocks in front of that for years. Would have helped in this situation.

IT infrastructure doesn't exist but can be made to very easily. This should have been prioritised at the very beginning of all this, not in 2 weeks time, which was my original criticism. Training might not be in place but there are plenty of resources, just look at suggestions that have been made here. Again, pro-activeness is required, some teachers here have outlined how they're going about it.



Where is the solution? I haven't critiqued any solutions, but attitudes. We can accept the situation but that doesn't mean giving up totally because things might require a different process.



Is it the school holidays or something?

Weak retort

iguana

Walnut Salad wrote: »

I am guessing you think it's insufficient. Before I contact the school and cause any trouble, what kind of homework support should I expect?

The thing here is schools are caught between varying levels of parental expectation. Some parents want their kids to have virtually the same level of school as they would normally have. On the other end of the scale there are parents who would actually prefer for little to no communication from school either because there is genuinely no way they can facilitate that kind of schooling at home due to their own work commitments of because they/a family member is ill (remember this is all happening because of a virus, lots of people are actually sick). Or because their way of coping with the pandemic is to keep things relaxed and fun at home. Or because they are finding that doing immersive projects/gameplay/reading for fun is more then enough for their children's education right now. So there is no way for teachers to actually make everyone happy.

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

Weak retort

Khalessi you seem to be one of the teachers doing your best against all odds, honestly, but do you think all of your colleagues are incapable of doing the work that you're doing? Do you think it's unreasonable to expect that of them?

BoatMad

IT infrastructure doesn't exist but can be made to very easily. This should have been prioritised at the very beginning of all this, not in 2 weeks time, which was my original criticism. Training might not be in place but there are plenty of resources, just look at suggestions that have been made here. Again, pro-activeness is required, some teachers here have outlined how they're going about it.

hand waving answer , without any appreciation of the issues

BoatMad

iguana wrote: »

The thing here is schools are caught between varying levels of parental expectation. Some parents want their kids to have virtually the same level of school as they would normally have. On the other end of the scale there are parents who would actually prefer for little to no communication from school either because there is genuinely no way they can facilitate that kind of schooling at home due to their own work commitments of because they/a family member is ill (remember this is all happening because of a virus, lots of people are actually sick). Or because their way of coping with the pandemic is to keep things relaxed and fun at home. Or because they are finding that doing immersive projects/gameplay/reading for fun is more then enough for their children's education right now. So there is no way for teachers to actually make everyone happy.

actually , lots of people arnt sick and the cohort with kids in schools are least likely to be sick

iguana

BoatMad wrote: »

actually , lots of people arnt sick and the cohort with kids in schools are least likely to be sick

What? First off no-one section of the population appears to be more vulnerable to infection by the virus. You are confusing the likelihood of having a severe case with the likelihood of being sick in the first place. The median age of of confirmed cases are people in their 40s. Exactly the population most likely to have school going children.

Secondly, we have literally only started community testing yesterday so we know that the majority of those infected are not recorded. So the best way to work out how many people may have been infected is extrapolation from the most likely mortality rate which indicates that somewhere between 70,150 and 280,600 have been infected in the last 3 months. And as the likelihood of the virus having anything even remotely akin to a 2% mortality rate is tiny at this point, the odds are, the higher number is more accurate and possibly even an underestimate.

Thirdly, while most people who have been infected have a mild case and are no longer infectious at this point. Mild is relative and many people with a mild case are not only sick enough to be too sick to facilitate school style homeschooling but are having a prolonged illness. Figures from Korea show that 37% of mild cases are sick for a minimum of 4 weeks.

khalessi

BoatMad wrote: »

actually , lots of people arnt sick and the cohort with kids in schools are least likely to be sick

If this is based on the idea that children cant spread the virus there wa sa study published in The Lancet last week by Chinese researchers and Johns Hopkins University actually showing that children can catch it as easily as adults and spread it too

BoatMad

khalessi wrote: »

If this is based on the idea that children cant spread the virus there wa sa study published in The Lancet last week by Chinese researchers and Johns Hopkins University actually showing that children can catch it as easily as adults and spread it too

no simply an observation , none of my wifes class are sick for example

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Come 'summer holidays' kids will be mixing anyway if not before then.

Italy are planning on reopening schools in September and many other EU countries are already doing so now.

Is there any real benefit of keeping schools closed come September if we continue to see decreases in case numbers?

I think we'll see schools reopen as normal by the end of August with some increased hygiene and sanitation.

BoatMad

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Come 'summer holidays' kids will be mixing anyway if not before then.

Italy are planning on reopening schools in September and many other EU countries are already doing so now.

Is there any real benefit of keeping schools closed come September if we continue to see decreases in case numbers?

I think we'll see schools reopen as normal by the end of August with some increased hygiene and sanitation.

I think all SD measures will be relaxed by then and hopefully the incoming Gov will not heed the nonsense of NPHET. SD simply cant work in many situations like pubs, many small retail , cafes etc and most importantly schools , many of which are overcrowded. It will be expediently swept aside on the back of " good numbers " etc etc

Dravokivich

Lillyfae wrote: »

I haven't done suggested anything of the sort, in fact, I agree that predicted grades would be a fiasco. There's no preparation for any kind of continuous assessment because teachers have been throwing roadblocks in front of that for years. Would have helped in this situation.

IT infrastructure doesn't exist but can be made to very easily. This should have been prioritised at the very beginning of all this, not in 2 weeks time, which was my original criticism. Training might not be in place but there are plenty of resources, just look at suggestions that have been made here. Again, pro-activeness is required, some teachers here have outlined how they're going about it.



Where is the solution? I haven't critiqued any solutions, but attitudes. We can accept the situation but that doesn't mean giving up totally because things might require a different process.



Is it the school holidays or something?

"IT infrastructure doesnt exist,"

Do you have any idea how much work is done to plan and maintain a corporate level it solution? What would it cover? Desktops, laptops, facilities, networks, on premise storage, off premise storage, dedicated/shared data centre servers, licensing, field services, contact centre, hardware/breakfix, user account management?

That's a lot to consider and takes more than 2 weeks.

Dravokivich

BoatMad wrote: »

no simply an observation , none of my wifes class are sick for example

No one in my household is sick so therefore...

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Come 'summer holidays' kids will be mixing anyway if not before then.

Italy are planning on reopening schools in September and many other EU countries are already doing so now.

Is there any real benefit of keeping schools closed come September if we continue to see decreases in case numbers?

I think we'll see schools reopen as normal by the end of August with some increased hygiene and sanitation.

BoatMad wrote: »

no simply an observation , none of my wifes class are sick for example

The benefit is we can see now how the disease is doing and we are trying to prevent the spread. This disease is new and changing all the time. We now know it affects children in the same way it affects adults and keeping schools closed will keep numbers low.

We cant control what children and families do in their own time but resposiblce ones will maintian social distancing.

Statements like my wifes class arent sick, doesnt mean nything as thre are people in the community sick. Kids dont tell teachers everything.

vid36

I think the potential link between Kawasaki sydrome and Co-Vid19, already 73 cases of this disease in young children in New York will make school reopenings very difficult.

khalessi

Agreed it is rare but it seems to be slowly increasing now that doctors know what to lookout for, and that along with the study released in The Lancet that shows children can catch and pass on diseasse as easily as adults could cause a hiccup

JTMan

The Sunday Times reports here (paywall):

- Some or all pupils spending weeks at school interspersed with alternate weeks studying at home.
- The 2021 Leaving Cert year is likely to be given priority in getting back to school, but the group is expected to look at a staggered return for non-exam years.

So most students will be 50% remote and 50% in classrooms.

JTMan

Meanwhile, the Sunday Independent reports here (free article) that schools may not be able to open at all in September.

not optimistic about reopening schools in September as planned under the Government's roadmap.

timmy_mallet

JTMan wrote: »

The Sunday Times reports here (paywall):

- Some or all pupils spending weeks at school interspersed with alternate weeks studying at home.
- The 2021 Leaving Cert year is likely to be given priority in getting back to school, but the group is expected to look at a staggered return for non-exam years.

So most students will be 50% remote and 50% in classrooms.

That's not a solution, it's a complete fudge that solves nothing. Either all on or all out, there is no middle ground. Which half? Which parents can choose which half, what sports do the miss out on. Half the education of children to save 2/3rds of the people that would be dead in a year anyway, and most of whom will be dead by September anyway (ohh, death, ohh, one life, ohhh, dont go there)

khalessi

timmy_mallet wrote: »

That's not a solution, it's a complete fudge that solves nothing. Either all on or all out, there is no middle ground. Which half? Which parents can choose which half, what sports do the miss out on. Half the education of children to save 2/3rds of the people that would be dead in a year anyway, and most of whom will be dead by September anyway (ohh, death, ohh, one life, ohhh, dont go there)

Are you suggesting no social distancing for schools

timmy_mallet

JTMan wrote: »

Meanwhile, the Sunday Independent reports here (free article) that schools may not be able to open at all in September.

Farce. Utter utter farce. Either they go in and you forget about social distancng or they dont. Ni middle ground. Try socially distance school going-age children with one adult present. Not possible. The government needs to get a grip on their recommendations asap. If you dont want your child there. Remote learning. If a teacher doesn't want to be there, fine, 100% salary till they feel safe, and get someone who does in

timmy_mallet

khalessi wrote: »

Are you suggesting no social distancing for schools

Exactly what I'm suggesting. Either do it or dont open them.

Edit; DONT DO IT. Ie impossible to implement and a farce to try.

BonsaiKitten

JTMan wrote: »

The Sunday Times reports here (paywall):

- Some or all pupils spending weeks at school interspersed with alternate weeks studying at home.
- The 2021 Leaving Cert year is likely to be given priority in getting back to school, but the group is expected to look at a staggered return for non-exam years.

So most students will be 50% remote and 50% in classrooms.

So who is doing the planning for students at home? I presume they'd have to be set work and not just told to go study. The teachers will be working their regular day in school, they won't be available for remote learning.