How will schools be able to go back in September?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Or they could invest in the public health infrastructure and we could deal with the loss of the very close to death and the unhealthy, for the benefit of society and it's children. But no. The 'one life' etc. brigade will force a generation into a lack of formal education and a bleak future.

It's this idea trhat "an education MUST take place in a classsroom" that I find the most restrictive thing to a child's upbringing.

If anything, this is hammering home the message that an education system has to be more varied and more adaptable in order for a society to survive and a child to learn.

Jizique

timmy_mallet wrote: »

As I said earlier, given the conservative nature of parents and many CMOs and govts., there will be no school until a vaccine is found. If no vaccine is found, children will never be educated in schools again. I don't see how people haven't got their heads around this yet.

Madness - kids don’t get it and don’t transmit it; keep the older brigade under lockdown and ban all international travel it needs be but let’s get our kids back to school.
And don’t let parents and sick kids with colds and flu to school to infect their classmates

s1ippy

Scoondal wrote: »

I pay teachers' salaries. Teachers are still on full salaries doing an hour of poor online "work".

Hello Gemma. Or are you with the Department of Education?

scooby77 wrote: »

Principal medium size primary school here. At the moment we are planning safe access for staff to the building from May 18th for "Opening of school and college buildings for access by teachers for organisation and distribution of remote learning" (from Gov Roadmap) There is more to this than might be appreciated.
We are already considering ideas for September, however we are are awaiting guidelines on such issues as PPE, maximum pupils in a room, assembly and dismissal times etc
We are planning, but can't take any concrete steps as doing so before guidelines would be futile.
In the meantime I am certain all of my colleagues, and most parents, are working hard to continue the children's education. However I appreciate that many parents in our community, and many teachers and parents in other schools, are struggling for many different reasons.
These are difficult times, and we should all try to be as supportive as possible.

scooby77 wrote: »

My post was in response to criticism that schools aren't planning for September. Most are planning for May 18th and discussing September.
My previous posts clearly indicate that I was in favour of opening in May or June, and suggested ways in which it might be possible.
As regards knowing that "this is boards" I'm well aware that Boards is a forum for balanced discussion.

Most shouldn't be planning for May because there is 100% no way that students will be back then. It's not even a remote possibility, so I'm not sure where you derived that information from. Joe McHugh has said that he doesn't even really see September as a realistic target to bring students back, at this point.

As a principal I'm sure you'll have considered that even if teachers are allowed into the building on a timetabled basis (as it would have to be, to allow for social distancing in the closely-confined school environment), they will still be at risk from surfaces and droplets in the air from carriers with a higher viral load. Is going in completely crucial, to your mind?

The government has said that working from home is recommended when it is possible to do so. Do you really take 100% responsibility for telling your staff that they have to go in, knowing that some of them may die?

I don't mean to be fatalistic, but people shouldn't be risking their lives to retrieve some files.

I hope I'm not taken to be in a "people shouldn't risk their lives unnecessarily" brigade. Based off this page alone, gone are the days when the firemen were the only brigade around apparently.

History Queen

Jizique wrote: »

Madness - kids don’t get it and don’t transmit it; keep the older brigade under lockdown and ban all international travel it needs be but let’s get our kids back to school.
And don’t let parents and sick kids with colds and flu to school to infect their classmates

Children do get it and transmit it. But I suspect you know this.

khalessi

Jizique wrote: »

Madness - kids don’t get it and don’t transmit it; keep the older brigade under lockdown and ban all international travel it needs be but let’s get our kids back to school.
And don’t let parents and sick kids with colds and flu to school to infect their classmates

Research released last week by Chinese researchers and Johns Hopkins University in the States, showing that children can get it and pass it on just as easily as adults.

timmy_mallet

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's this idea trhat "an education MUST take place in a classsroom" that I find the most restrictive thing to a child's upbringing.

If anything, this is hammering home the message that an education system has to be more varied and more adaptable in order for a society to survive and a child to learn.

I dont necessarily disagree with that, but I dont think there are going to be any viable alternatives for a long time. Are kids and parents to wait? Are oldrer kids in that education cycle to go elsewhere now?

timmy_mallet

s1ippy wrote: »

Hello Gemma. Or are you with the Department of Education?




Most shouldn't be planning for May because there is 100% no way that students will be back then. It's not even a remote possibility, so I'm not sure where you derived that information from. Joe McHugh has said that he doesn't even really see September as a realistic target to bring students back, at this point.

As a principal I'm sure you'll have considered that even if teachers are allowed into the building on a timetabled basis (as it would have to be, to allow for social distancing in the closely-confined school environment), they will still be at risk from surfaces and droplets in the air from carriers with a higher viral load. Is going in completely crucial, to your mind?

The government has said that working from home is recommended when it is possible to do so. Do you really take 100% responsibility for telling your staff that they have to go in, knowing that some of them may die?

I don't mean to be fatalistic, but people shouldn't be risking their lives to retrieve some files.

I hope I'm not taken to be in a "people shouldn't risk their lives unnecessarily" brigade. Based off this page alone, gone are the days when the firemen were the only brigade around apparently.

Kids are never going back to school. This is clear now. It's time to start thining of alternatives.

Birdy

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Kids are never going back to school. This is clear now. It's time to start thining of alternatives.

Who will mind these kids when parents are working?

How would you engage junior infants in online learning when they learn mostly from play?

What about all those kids who refuse to engage with remote learning?

The economy will have to get back to normal. This lockdown isn't sustainable long-term.

Get your head out of the clouds.

fawlty682

The answer is to have school in supermarkets. This virus seems to avoid supermarkets. I haven’t heard of anyone infected in Aldi yet. People report kids for not social distancing outside , joggers etc but see no problem wandering around supermarkets themselves.

CinemaGuy45

fawlty682 wrote: »

The answer is to have school in supermarkets. This virus seems to avoid supermarkets. I haven’t heard of anyone infected in Aldi yet. People report kids for not social distancing outside , joggers etc but see no problem wandering around supermarkets themselves.

Jesus you could be onto a winner here and the kids would not know the difference anyway I mean you already have to line up outside the supermarkets.:D

iamwhoiam

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Jesus you could be onto a winner here and the kids would not know the difference anyway I mean you already have to line up outside the supermarkets.:D

And they could help themselves to lunch

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Jesus you could be onto a winner here and the kids would not know the difference anyway I mean you already have to line up outside the supermarkets.:D

Most people don't spend five-six hours in a supermarket!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I dont necessarily disagree with that, but I dont think there are going to be any viable alternatives for a long time. Are kids and parents to wait? Are oldrer kids in that education cycle to go elsewhere now?

What do you mean by "elsewhere"? and in what way are parents and kids "waiting"?

The box people keep locking themselves into is the classroom enviroment.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Because it's a global pandemic and sacrifices need to be made. We can sacrifice a few Bob for those who cant (health issues) or are unwilling (union agiitators).

Unions will have very little clout given the state of the rest of the economy and the huge number of job losses as a result of lockdown measures.

Right or wrong nobody is going to be entertaining any union demands for a long time.

The schools will have to open eventually and social distancing is not going to be enforceable in primary schools in any meaningful way either.

Kids will be mixing well before then anyway and from what I've encountered recently social distancing will be quickly forgotten about once things start opening up.

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Unions will have very little clout given the state of the rest of the economy and the huge number of job losses as a result of lockdown measures.

Right or wrong nobody is going to be entertaining any union demands for a long time.

The schools will have to open eventually and social distancing is not going to be enforceable in primary schools in any meaningful way either.

Kids will be mixing well before then anyway and from what I've encountered recently social distancing will be quickly forgotten about once things start opening up.

There is no reason children from seniour infants upward could not do social distancing in the class the yard would have to be heavily monitored

snoopboggybog

There is no-way schools will be fully open in September. Not a hope.

Only thing i can see possible is one day a week for each year and students with USB sticks able to get resources off the schools computers if they don't have good broadband at home.

Are students going to self isolate at lunch time? Not a hope.

College classes will also all be online with the students having an option to get the material from college if they have crap broadband.

Lillyfae

Dravokivich wrote: »

"IT infrastructure doesnt exist,"

Do you have any idea how much work is done to plan and maintain a corporate level it solution? What would it cover? Desktops, laptops, facilities, networks, on premise storage, off premise storage, dedicated/shared data centre servers, licensing, field services, contact centre, hardware/breakfix, user account management?

That's a lot to consider and takes more than 2 weeks.

They've had 9 weeks now and the planning is only (possibly) going to start on the 18th according to the quote below. That was my criticism.

Murple wrote: »

It is specified that schools may open from the 18th ‘for the organisation and distribution of remote learning’. It’s not for staff meetings or any other tasks.

alentejo

I think schools should fully return in September. Missing education will lead to worse outcomes for students esp from disadvantage areas.

namloc1980

khalessi wrote: »

WHat extended holiday. Teachers are teaching online

Are they? In my kids school we get an email every Monday with a list of homework for the week and that's it. Nada online.

namloc1980

snoopboggybog wrote: »

There is no-way schools will be fully open in September. Not a hope.

Only thing i can see possible is one day a week for each year and students with USB sticks able to get resources off the schools computers if they don't have good broadband at home.

Are students going to self isolate at lunch time? Not a hope.

College classes will also all be online with the students having an option to get the material from college if they have crap broadband.

Good luck giving senior infants USB sticks to take work home with them :pac:

khalessi

namloc1980 wrote: »

Are they? In my kids school we get an email every Monday with a list of homework for the week and that's it. Nada online.

Are you returning the work for correction? Have you emailed the teacher? Have you conatacted the school or principal or teacher via school email? Is the work enough or do you want more? Teachers I know are online and working daily.

tucker1971

In reply to one day a week school attendance, who is going to school the kids the rest of the week?
Believe it or not, parents have jobs to go back to.
Schools must re-open in September. Absolutely.

History Queen

tucker1971 wrote: »

In reply to one day a week school attendance, who is going to school the kids the rest of the week?
Believe it or not, parents have jobs to go back to.
Schools must re-open in September. Absolutely.

But if the Leaving Cert (approx 1/6 of student cohort) which would have finished approx mid-August was deemed unsafe to proceed, it is difficult to justify opening schools to the whole student population in September. I would much prefer to see schools open normally as I think everyone, teachers/students/parents would like a return to normality. But based on government decisions such as cancellation of the LC I can't see it happening in the nirmal way in September anyway.

namloc1980

khalessi wrote: »

Are you returning the work for correction? Have you emailed the teacher? Have you conatacted the school or principal or teacher via school email? Is the work enough or do you want more? Teachers I know are online and working daily.

Sending work for correction is hardly earth shattering. I can well correct 4th class and senior infants work myself. While I'm sure some schools are going the extra mile, don't be fooling yourself into thinking that most schools and teachers are doing nothing more than the bare minimum.

History Queen

snoopboggybog wrote: »

There is no-way schools will be fully open in September. Not a hope.

Only thing i can see possible is one day a week for each year and students with USB sticks able to get resources off the schools computers if they don't have good broadband at home.

Are students going to self isolate at lunch time? Not a hope.

College classes will also all be online with the students having an option to get the material from college if they have crap broadband.

You'd be surprised how many households have no pc/laptop. We did surveys of the student population in my school since the closure and a little over half our students are using phones as their primary device to access the online work we are providing.

History Queen

namloc1980 wrote: »

Sending work for correction is hardly earth shattering. I can well correct 4th class and senior infants work myself. While I'm sure some schools are going the extra mile, don't be fooling yourself into thinking that most schools and teachers are doing nothing more than the bare minimum.

What are you basing most on? I ask as my school is a member of the ETB so we are all doing similar as following guidance from the ETB we are members of. Anecdotally within my family all of my nieces and nephews at primary level, (13 across 4 counties) are getting some level of provision,mostly through the SeeSaw app. I would have thought there would be many more schools engaging with online teaching than not. Now none are doing live lessons/zoom granted but they are being taught.

vixdname

I think the possibility of them catching a deadly virus outweighs their missing of education at the moment.
Yes, younger people have a lower chance of getting very sick but frankly Im not going to put either of my 2 kids into a situation
where theres ANY chance of them getting seriously ill.
Mine two kids are 5 and 7, if they have to repeat a year, so be it, Im not in a rush, nor will I be rushed into getting them back into school as part of a "wait and see" exercise on behalf of the governmant

khalessi

namloc1980 wrote: »

Sending work for correction is hardly earth shattering. I can well correct 4th class and senior infants work myself. While I'm sure some schools are going the extra mile, don't be fooling yourself into thinking that most schools and teachers are doing nothing more than the bare minimum.

Well I can only go by my colleagues and the teachers from other schools I am in contact with and we are working. I use google classroom, put up videos to explain what I want to teach and add worksheets all planned and designed by me, which takes time. I have to watch every video to make sure it is age appropriate, which takes time

I then am online to answer questions, correct work and discuss corrections with the students. I am supposed to be online from 9 until 230pm, I am actually online from around 8am until 7pm as the kids have to work aroud their parents who are wfh and I like to be onhand to answer questions.

Generally most evenings I am correcting, planning work, designing worksheets, helping my own kids with their online school work and answering questions of my school kids. The planning, designing of worksheets, and correcting for class of 30 children, takes a lot of time that is unseen by people.

timmy_mallet

namloc1980 wrote: »

Good luck giving senior infants USB sticks to take work home with them :pac:

And who's going to do it with them? Their parents at 6pm when they've finished work? Is it?

timmy_mallet

Birdy wrote: »

Who will mind these kids when parents are working?

How would you engage junior infants in online learning when they learn mostly from play?

What about all those kids who refuse to engage with remote learning?

The economy will have to get back to normal. This lockdown isn't sustainable long-term.

Get your head out of the clouds.

Have you not been listening to the minister? There is no way schools can practice social distancing. That is NPHETs advice. The department of education cannot ignore that. There will be no school here until a vaccine is found.