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It's not the economy, it's our way of life.

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    #32
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Yes I secretly planned this and can stop it any time I want. Yes I am happy to live like this and enforce it all on you. I totally have a choice in this.



    This is living alongside the virus.



    What do you mean allow? We don't have a choice. If some genius scientist comes up with a way and we develop PPE to the level were we all have our own personal bubbles to walk around in I am all for it. But until then this is it.

    When you come up with an idea tell us.

    Reported.


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    #33
    bloodless_coup
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭bloodless_coup


    cbreeze wrote: »
    No. The day will come when there are no more deaths caused by Covid-19 and after that no more new cases. Then after 14 or 15 days the community transmission will have ceased. Then lockdown ends. Simples.

    Not going to happen. You're away with the fairies if you think a lockdown will last that long.


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    #34
    niallo27
    Registered Users Posts: 16,023 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    cbreeze wrote: »
    No. The day will come when there are no more deaths caused by Covid-19 and after that no more new cases. Then after 14 or 15 days the community transmission will have ceased. Then lockdown ends. Simples.

    Ok so, you plan on waiting for a vaccine.


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    #35
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    cbreeze wrote: »
    No. The day will come when there are no more deaths caused by Covid-19 and after that no more new cases. Then after 14 or 15 days the community transmission will have ceased. Then lockdown ends. Simples.

    Its not that simple.


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    #36
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Protect them from depression to allow them to die as a result of the virus.

    The depression I referred to is an economic one , the type where there is feck all money available for services, health being one of them.


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    #37
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    cbreeze wrote: »
    No. The day will come when there are no more deaths caused by Covid-19 and after that no more new cases. Then after 14 or 15 days the community transmission will have ceased. Then lockdown ends. Simples.

    Never going to happen with a virus like this unfortunately.


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    #38
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    doylefe wrote: »
    Not going to happen. You're away with the fairies if you think a lockdown will last that long.

    I agree. And I don't have an answer to that.


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    #39
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    cbreeze wrote: »
    No. The day will come when there are no more deaths caused by Covid-19 and after that no more new cases. Then after 14 or 15 days the community transmission will have ceased. Then lockdown ends. Simples.

    This virus is now a feature of life , it is going nowhere. How life mores on is the choice.


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    #40
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    The depression I referred to is an economic one , the type where there is feck all money available for services, health being one of them.

    There isn't anything we can do. Then it will destroy us either way.

    Because letting it run through the populations would bring a worse depression. I am certain the govts around the world have crunched the numbers.


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    #41
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,026 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    doylefe wrote: »
    Restrictions need to end in May, for good. If older / high risk people want to cocoon, knock themselves out.

    We need to get people back to work, and everything open again, salvage what's left of the economy.

    Some people will get sick, some will die. That's life. A return to normalcy is more important.

    Unchecked, you're looking at 500 million dead globally in 18 months, between 100 and 200,000 on this island. Thats certainly "some".

    Are you willing to write-off your own loved ones in that sweeping generalisation?


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    #42
    stateofflux
    Registered Users Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭stateofflux


    trapp wrote: »
    Again I'm not complaining about anything.

    I'm just considering the human effects of a long term lockdown which are a lot more than you refer to.

    friends separated indefinitely

    family separated indefinitely

    No social activity for anyone

    No more weddings, funerals as we knew them etc

    Grandparents unable to see their granchildren and vice versa.

    For children, teenagers and young people a life alone without mixing with friends, making friends, learning social skills etc.

    For children no more school, no more sport, no more clubs etc.

    For vulnerable children and children from disadvantaged areas a prolonged time out of school, with no support from teachers or community workers would be devastating to their future.

    An increase in domestic abuse and child abuse in the home.

    Many, many people out of work and living with no purpose in their lives i.e employment, sport, etc

    This will come to pass. yes, things will change and take a while to get back to normal but it will get back to 'Normal'. You can bet on that.

    Employment is a necessity for most, not a purpose. Purpose is a state of mind.

    Our 'way of life' is, to a large extent, built on the state of the economy.


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    #43
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,204 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    trapp wrote: »
    Never going to happen with a virus like this unfortunately.


    So what happens? We dilly dally along with the lock down for another few months until someone politician says feck it lets go back to worshipping the corporations and dig 80,000+ graves for the people who will inevitably die from it?


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    #44
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    trapp wrote: »
    Best case scenario.

    And even then it's two years lockdown?

    Would that vaccine even be safe?


    After 18-24 months of vigilant testing you'd have to hope so


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    #45
    rob316
    Registered Users Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    The current restrictions will end on may 5th they won't be able to extend them any further. I only ever thought 1 month of this max. would be doable and they are pushing it going over it.

    We will continue to have new cases but it will be manageable. We have to learn to live with this virus, protect the vunerable and be mindful of our movements until there is a vaccine.


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    #46
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I think they will use an accelerated vaccine regardless of safety and weigh it up against the loss of a lockdown and the pandemic.

    What usually takes 15 yrs will take 1-3.


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    #47
    Jenbach110
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 154 ✭✭Jenbach110


    trapp wrote: »
    As a matter of interest are you happy to restrict children to no school, no education, no sport, no clubs, no friendship for two or three years?

    We can't accept this.

    We must try and find a way to keep living and live alongside the virus.

    Things will not be the same but that doesn't mean we should allow the virus to destroy our way of life.

    And by way of life I don't mean holidays, nights out, concerts etc.

    I mean interacting with other humans.

    I have read a lot of posts, and I know I am an argumentitive clown, but I cant explain how much I agree with this post


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    #48
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    People there have been pandemics.

    The thing was ..back then people didnt travel so much. Certainly not internationally.

    No planes no trains no popping over to the next city for your job.

    We've had the black death the pox the measles. It will go back to normal it will just take a few years.


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    #49
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    There isn't anything we can do. Then it will destroy us either way.

    Because letting it run through the populations would bring a worse depression. I am certain the govts around the world have crunched the numbers.

    Do you know what the fatality rate is?


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    #50
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Jenbach110 wrote: »
    I have read a lot of posts, and I know I am an argumentitive clown, but I cant explain how much I agree with this post


    Awh you are not a clown. ;)


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    #51
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Do you know what the fatality rate is?

    Yes...more than we can cope with presently during a lockdown.


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    #52
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    trapp wrote: »
    But for how long?

    A year?

    Two years?

    Three years?

    A safe vaccine rolled out everywhere within 2 years is a fairytale.

    Even if developed in 2 years the roll out could take the same again, we'll have some level of herd immunity before that


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    #53
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,177 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Well if you want to get the virus. Go get it.


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    #54
    trapp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 510 ✭✭✭trapp


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    There isn't anything we can do. Then it will destroy us either way.

    Because letting it run through the populations would bring a worse depression. I am certain the govts around the world have crunched the numbers.

    No one is suggesting let it run through.

    Social distancing etc will remain.

    But we must find a middle ground.


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    #55
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Yes...more than we can cope with presently during a lockdown.

    14 died today of Covid 19. The normal death rate is 90+ a day. CSO figures first quarter 2019 8674


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    #56
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Do you know what the fatality rate is?

    It seems to vary from country and the actual exposure time, Dietary and vaccination history seem to play a part as well.


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    #57
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    It seems to vary from country and the actual exposure time, Dietary and vaccination history seem to play a part as well.

    BCG vaccination history seems to be a factor.


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    #58
    Xertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Xertz


    I’d look at it as preserving our way of life, not threatening it.

    If we just let this virus run riot through the population loads of people would die, the health services would melt down entirely and you could be looking at even worse social outcomes both in terms of death toll and even break down of society and probably economically too.

    This is absolutely not a situation without an end. The lock down has a defined purpose. Think of it as a fire break. The virus cannot exist without hosts as it needs our cells to reproduce. So if we do this for a time it should begin to reduce exponentially.

    At present we have no other tools to deal with this. Until we have vaccines and effective drug regimens, we are basically stuck with modern versions of old fashioned Florence Nightingale nursing approaches. All we are doing is what they did in the days of polio and TB epidemics - supportive medicine like oxygen therapy and mechanical ventilation, giving our immune systems the best chance they have of defeating a virus. That’s not exactly high tech medicine that we have become used to.

    When the drugs and vaccines do arrive, and I suspend the drugs will be repurposed or slightly modified existing ones, then we will have tools and this changes dramatically.

    Until then all we have is the simple tools of social distancing and hygiene measures.

    It’s not pleasant and it’s far from ideal, but when we only have those tools to prevent huge damage to our population and society, what else can we do?

    We urgently need (and they are being worked on rapidly) technical solutions to this.


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    #59
    bloodless_coup
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭bloodless_coup


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Unchecked, you're looking at 500 million dead globally in 18 months, between 100 and 200,000 on this island. Thats certainly "some".

    Are you willing to write-off your own loved ones in that sweeping generalisation?

    Hyperbole numbers.

    60,000,000 people normally die each year. You can open business and still have physical distancing and hand washing to reduce spread. People are more aware now of hygiene and things they can do to mitigate spread, so it won't be unchecked.

    Even if you doubled the normal date rate for a year, so what. Time for life to move on.


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    #60
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    The economy can't be dismissed in discussing life or the effects this virus/lockdown might have on it.
    It's all intertwined.

    I don't see. It going on long term and definitely not forever
    Humans are reasonably resilient, most anyway and we'll bounce back.

    We have more advanced sciences and medicines so there has to be some answer.
    People have dealt with much worse in other times.

    Ok, grandparents are hugging their offspring at present, but they can Skype, zoom, even phone.
    We have food, shelter, some of us are even still working.

    Introspection and doom and gloom stop people from seeing positives.


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    #61
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    The problem some ppl seem to have is they think of the economy as simply a process to make some ppl more wealthy.

    For many the economy is what enables ppl to survive on a daily basis. That is the whole point of an economic system.

    So, shutting down the economy for the long term, even an extended short term, would be a disaster much worse than a pandemic. It's not about money, it's about getting people out there being active whether in healthcare or business's that provide food etc, the basic needs we all require to survive.

    This pandemic as serious as it is, is not an apocalypse , but if the economy fully went under, no economy at all, that would be an apocalypse.


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