It's not the economy, it's our way of life.

ShineOn7

doylefe wrote: »

Restrictions need to end in May, for good. If older / high risk people want to cocoon, knock themselves out.

We need to get people back to work, and everything open again, salvage what's left of the economy.

Some people will get sick, some will die. That's life. A return to normalcy is more important.

I posted this elsewhere, I'll repeat it here because people's lack of common sense in all this is quite something




The world's economy is fúcked. So it won't matter if Ireland is "up and running" again in two months because by then America will be riddled with this, the Fed will give up trying to prop up the stock market artificially and we'll have 2008 type recession except times 10

Remember the last downturn? Well that's coming again except it's going to be on steroids

I'm very much a glass half full person but we need to be more pragmatic about this. People thinking that things will be back to normal by June need to wake up


2-4 years of economic upheaval is coming globally, not just to Ireland. You're not "salvaging" anything

RandomViewer

Larbre34 wrote: »

Unchecked, you're looking at 500 million dead globally in 18 months, between 100 and 200,000 on this island. Thats certainly "some".

Are you willing to write-off your own loved ones in that sweeping generalisation?

Spanish flu killed 23 thousand here ,similar mortality rate, little or no medical interventions, it did the rounds for two years with a lot less travel than today, I see similar death rate but longer run time ,3 to 4 years and hopefully no mutations

trapp

Xertz wrote: »

I’d look at it as preserving our way of life, not threatening it.

If we just let this virus run riot through the population loads of people would die, the health services would melt down entirely and you could be looking at even worse social outcomes both in terms of death toll and even break down of society and probably economically too.

This is absolutely not a situation without an end. The lock down has a defined purpose. Think of it as a fire break. The virus cannot exist without hosts as it needs our cells to reproduce. So if we do this for a time it should begin to reduce exponentially.

At present we have no other tools to deal with this. Until we have vaccines and effective drug regimens, we are basically stuck with modern versions of old fashioned Florence Nightingale nursing approaches. All we are doing is what they did in the days of polio and TB epidemics - supportive medicine like oxygen therapy and mechanical ventilation, giving our immune systems the best chance they have of defeating a virus. That’s not exactly high tech medicine that we have become used to.

When the drugs and vaccines do arrive, and I suspend the drugs will be repurposed or slightly modified existing ones, then we will have tools and this changes dramatically.

Until then all we have is the simple tools of social distancing and hygiene measures.

It’s not pleasant and it’s far from ideal, but when we only have those tools to prevent huge damage to our population and society, what else can we do?

We urgently need (and they are being worked on rapidly) technical solutions to this.

I'd agree with all that if the solutions were going to come on board within 2020.

There's no certainty though and while I don't know what to do, the human effects of severe restrictions lasting into 2021 would be severe for people of all ages.

Jenbach110

doylefe wrote: »

Hyperbole numbers.

60,000,000 people normally die each year. You can open business and still have physical distancing and hand washing to reduce spread. People are more aware now of hygiene and things they can do to mitigate spread, so it won't be unchecked.

Even if you doubled the normal date rate for a year, so what. Time for life to move on.

Yeah I dont follow the projected death rate.
0.13% of the at risk category (over 65) died in Italy.

How could anyone suggest we would see 200k dead here

Xertz

Basically we’re damned if we do and we’re utterly damned if we don’t.
It’s not a great set of options and we are really in something that is without precedent in modern times or modern economics.

We’re looking at least worst options given the lack drugs and vaccines.

We are going to (as a species never mind as countries) need proactively prevent ever being caught out like this again and that will mean pumping serious resources into identifying and preemptively producing vaccines for viruses that aren’t even significantly threatening as yet.

RandomViewer

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I posted this elsewhere, I'll repeat it here because people's lack of common sense in all this is quite something




The world's economy is fúcked. So it won't matter if Ireland is "up and running" again in two months because by then America will be riddled with this, the Fed will give up trying to prop up the stock market artificially and we'll have 2008 type recession except times 10

Remember the last downturn? Well that's coming again except it's going to be on steroids

I'm very much a glass half full person but we need to be more pragmatic about this. People thinking that things will be back to normal by June need to wake up


2-4 years of economic upheaval is coming globally, not just to Ireland. You're not "salvaging" anything

A lot of people don't seem to understand that their job only exists while someone elsewhere requires their product or service, no point making random widgets if no one is buying

Jenbach110

AllForIt wrote: »

The problem some ppl seem to have is they think of the economy as simply a process to make some ppl more wealthy.

For many the economy is what enables ppl to survive on a daily basis. That is the whole point of an economic system.

So, shutting down the economy for the long term, even an extended short term, would be a disaster much worse than a pandemic. It's not about money, it's about getting people out there being active whether in healthcare or business's that provide food etc, the basic needs we all require to survive.

This pandemic as serious as it is, is not an apocalypse , but if the economy fully went under, no economy at all, that would be an apocalypse.

I think one can suggest that the economy is the reason for life as we know it.

Without it we go back to only the strongest survive.

Plumbthedepths

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I posted this elsewhere, I'll repeat it here because people's lack of common sense in all this is quite something




The world's economy is fúcked. So it won't matter if Ireland is "up and running" again in two months because by then America will be riddled with this, the Fed will give up trying to prop up the stock market artificially and we'll have 2008 type recession except times 10

Remember the last downturn? Well that's coming again except it's going to be on steroids

I'm very much a glass half full person but we need to be more pragmatic about this. People thinking that things will be back to normal by June need to wake up


2-4 years of economic upheaval is coming globally, not just to Ireland. You're not "salvaging" anything

The only thing I can say to you is you have no understanding of Marco and Micro economics. FB is cool but the 'experts' there dilute the knowledge.

ILoveYourVibes

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

14 died today of Covid 19. The normal death rate is 90+ a day. CSO figures first quarter 2019 8674

Do you think the Nurses and Drs are having a normal day? If you do then they must be lying.

trapp

Xertz wrote: »

Basically we’re damned if we do and we’re utterly damned if we don’t.
It’s not a great set of options and we are really in something that is without precedent in modern times or modern economics.

We’re looking at least worst options give the lack drugs and vaccines.

So can we find a middle ground.

Or do we choose to live with risk.

Who knows the best option.

I would suggest though that long term lockdown is not sustainable and not really an option.

ILoveYourVibes

If the OP wants to risk his life ...let him.

We should not have to risk ours.

Plumbthedepths

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Do you think the Nurses and Drs are having a normal day? If you do then they must be lying.

My response is I'm a pragmatic individual, I refuse to engage in emotional posting.

anewme

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The only thing I can say to you is you have no understanding of Marco and Micro economics. FB is cool but the 'experts' there dilute the knowledge.

What exactly are Marco Economics?

Xertz

trapp wrote: »

So can we find a middle ground.

Or do we choose to live with risk.

Who knows the best option.

I would suggest though that long term lockdown is not sustainable and not really an option.

It’s not sustainable nor is it meant to be long term.
All they’re trying to do is create a fire break so that we can cope with the volume of cases that will be thrown up.

If you end up with a situation where there’s a huge death toll and meltdown of health services and a massive panic, the economy is going to fall over anyway.

I’d rather just progress with trying to mitigate this for a while until it’s at least manageable with drugs to reduce the mortality rate to something more approaching a flu.

This thing is beyond an acceptable level of risk.

trapp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If the OP wants to risk his life ...let him.

We should not have to risk ours.

Reported again.

shocksy

doylefe wrote: »

Not going to happen. You're away with the fairies if you think a lockdown will last that long.

And you're away with the fairies if you think everything will go back to normal in May. No chance kiddo.

F*ck the ecoomy.

maestroamado

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well if you want to get the virus. Go get it.

I think we will all likely be exposed to at some level, i expect loads of people have being exposed and do not even know it. Some people will be more resistant than others.
We will have to get back to some form of normality within a Month or so.
I think the real problem will be when people have to pick-up the pieces when people return to normal people with mortgages, people with expensive car payments with lesser income and some will have no jobs to return to.
We are all in it together but when normal life returns the reality will be stark for some unfortunately.
I was talking to a lady about two weeks ago and she said her son was lad-off work as nothing happening and this was just before lockdown.
We are only guaranteed two things "death and taxes"

ILoveYourVibes

trapp wrote: »

Reported again.

:pac:

He wants us to all risk our lives and thinks its fine if vulnerable people die from this report him!

Ubbquittious

One way around this kind of thing to implement a strict but bare bones communist regime for the duration of thing. Government takes over the farms, factories to make vital health care supplies. Everyone lives off generic food packets in the mean time. When the virus is gone everything goes back to the way it was before without the mountains of debt and increased tax.


Won't be pleasant in the short term but at least it will reduce the aftermath to almost 0

bloodless_coup

shocksy wrote: »

And you're away with the fairies if you think everything will go back to normal in May. No chance kiddo.

F*ck the ecoomy.

I'm guessing you don't work, currently or before this pandemic.

anewme

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My response is I'm a pragmatic individual, I refuse to engage in emotional posting.

You told me three weeks ago that HR would give me short shrift if I objected to working alongside people returning from northern Italy and Cheltenham.

Not very pragmatic.

Plumbthedepths

anewme wrote: »

What exactly are Marco Economics?

Google is your friend.

Jenbach110

Ubbquittious wrote: »

One way around this kind of thing to implement a strict but bare bones communist regime for the duration of thing. Government takes over the farms, factories to make vital health care supplies. Everyone lives off generic food packets in the mean time. When the virus is gone everything goes back to the way it was before without the mountains of debt and increased tax.


Won't be pleasant in the short term but at least it will reduce the aftermath to almost 0

The farms we own, the factories we dont. It would be foolish to bite off the hand that feeds us

Xertz

maestroamado wrote: »

I think we will all likely be exposed to at some level, i expect loads of people have being exposed and do not even know it. Some people will be more resistant than others.
."

We can hope that’s the case but until we’ve some kind of significant volume of antibody testing across the population that’s something we don’t know. Those tests aren’t ready yet, anywhere, in the volumes needed. They’re being worked on quite rapidly though.

Again the technical solutions are coming but they’re not there yet.

When that can be measured and proven, then we can calculate the risk.
Otherwise, you’re talking about taking an leap of faith based on what amounts to a hunch.

Plumbthedepths

anewme wrote: »

What exactly are Marco Economics?

Google is your friend.

Multipass

I’ve seen a lot written about restrictions being eased on the young while the elderly continue to cocoon. Well my Dad is a very clear minded, active, 89 year old. He’s not going to spend the short time he has left shut away in his house. For weeks yes, but years like that? No way. At some point people are going to have to be allowed to roll the dice, and start to live - for whatever length that will be.

trapp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

:pac:

He wants us to all risk our lives and thinks its fine if vulnerable people die from this report him!

Reported again.

Also please read original post before engaging in discussion.

And in reality you risk your life everytime you walk out the front door.

ILoveYourVibes

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My response is I'm a pragmatic individual, I refuse to engage in emotional posting.

You think I am not pragmatic?

I think i have been very pragmatic in this thread. This is the situation we can't change it. We have to make the best of it.

Others are appearing to be away with the fairies and don't realize the risk they are posing to their own lives. That is not pragmatic.

You dont need friends you don't need school ...you need to be able to breathe.

I can't hold my breath for year. The rest i can do without.

The truth is ...some people can't hack it. That is the barefaced truth. They are not tough enough.

Its hard ..its difficult ...i know. But its not going to change for you.

shocksy

doylefe wrote: »

Hyperbole numbers.

60,000,000 people normally die each year. You can open business and still have physical distancing and hand washing to reduce spread. People are more aware now of hygiene and things they can do to mitigate spread, so it won't be unchecked.

Even if you doubled the normal date rate for a year, so what. Time for life to move on.

My god your attitude stinks just like your posts. Absolutely disgusting to come out with the sh!t you're spouting. Vile.

shocksy

doylefe wrote: »

I'm guessing you don't work, currently or before this pandemic.

Oh such a childish comeback. Cop on. I don't care if I lose my job as I'd rather have my family members and people who are close to me and vulnerable alive. It's worth more than any job or amount of money. You're a clown.