It's not the economy, it's our way of life.

RandomViewer

maestroamado wrote: »

I think we will all likely be exposed to at some level, i expect loads of people have being exposed and do not even know it. Some people will be more resistant than others.
We will have to get back to some form of normality within a Month or so.
I think the real problem will be when people have to pick-up the pieces when people return to normal people with mortgages, people with expensive car payments with lesser income and some will have no jobs to return to.
We are all in it together but when normal life returns the reality will be stark for some unfortunately.
I was talking to a lady about two weeks ago and she said her son was lad-off work as nothing happening and this was just before lockdown.
We are only guaranteed two things "death and taxes"

America is being exposed as a third world country, they can't even provide minimal medical help to the many infected, their economy has effectively tanked, the UK aren't far behind and Spain and Italy will be picking up the pieces for a long time, my workplace has predicted a 50% cut in production, seeing as this will be the lowest possible outcome, reality will be high 80 s, every other firm will be in similar straits with the knock on effect on every other sector, normality is a long way off after the virus has gone

trapp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You think I am not pragmatic?

I think i have been very pragmatic in this thread. This is the situation we can't change it. We have to make the best of it.

Others are appearing to be away with the fairies and don't realize the risk they are posing to their own lives. That is not pragmatic.

You dont need friends you don't need school ...you need to be able to breathe.

I can't hold my breath for year. The rest i can do without.

The truth is ...some people can't hack it. That is the barefaced truth.

Its hard ..its difficult ...i know. But its not going to change for you.

You don't need friends or interaction or school or to able to hug your grandchildren or kiss your partner. But others might.

Human interaction is a need.

And ultimately the need for human interaction will overcome the fear of death, rightly or wrongly.

You can come out in 2026 when the vaccine is produced.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Unchecked, you're looking at 500 million dead globally in 18 months, between 100 and 200,000 on this island. Thats certainly "some".

Are you willing to write-off your own loved ones in that sweeping generalisation?

I'm beginning to think some people can't wait to get the inheritance.

I don't see the lockdown lasting until a vaccine is found, but can't see everything being thrown back open either in May.

Most will still be working from home where possible except for the likes of pharmaceutical/medical companies where not possible as it currently imo.

As for the economy, leaving aside that we're looking at a world wide depression, who are we going to be trading with at the moment at a rate before the pandemic, the U.S. and U.K. are looking bad and only two E.U. countries are talking about easing restrictions at the moment?

There is of course the indigenous economy, pubs, cafes and other business such as tourism, but who in their right mind is going to be spending money on anything but an essential item that they cannot do without when a world wide depression is on the cards and they might lose their job for the first time or again due to this?

ILoveYourVibes

People have gotten soft. They are used to an easy lifestyle.

That is all this is about. We are being asked to do something that is hard. That's all.

Ubbquittious

Multipass wrote: »

I’ve seen a lot written about restrictions being eased on the young while the elderly continue to cocoon. Well my Dad is a very clear minded, active, 89 year old. He’s not going to spend the short time he has left shut away in his house. For weeks yes, but years like that? No way. At some point people are going to have to be allowed to roll the dice, and start to live - for whatever length that will be.

That's not even giving the lockdown a chance to work. If you want to ease restrictions the right way to do it would be to identify some region that has no cases, create a border around it, wait a while for the stragglers to get sick and if you have none then you lift restrictions in that area. You need a permanent checkpoint on every road into this place. If it works then you start expanding this region. You''ll have all sorts of cribbers and moaners saying its not fair they're not restricted but I still am but you have to ignore those

ILoveYourVibes

trapp wrote: »

Human interaction is a need.

.

No it isn't. It's something you want.

Trapp are you self isolating with a family or housemates or just yourself?

Fr Tod Umptious

AllForIt wrote: »

The problem some ppl seem to have is they think of the economy as simply a process to make some ppl more wealthy.

For many the economy is what enables ppl to survive on a daily basis. That is the whole point of an economic system.

So, shutting down the economy for the long term, even an extended short term, would be a disaster much worse than a pandemic. It's not about money, it's about getting people out there being active whether in healthcare or business's that provide food etc, the basic needs we all require to survive.

This pandemic as serious as it is, is not an apocalypse , but if the economy fully went under, no economy at all, that would be an apocalypse.

This

People seem to think that the economy is mutually exclusive from everyday existence.

It's not

It's totally intertwined with everyday existence.

The economy is what puts money in our pockets, foot on the table, builds hospitals, employs health care staff etc etc

I wish people would stop saying they would give up the economy to save lives, that's a stupid statement.

Sure give up the sun holiday or the fancy wedding, but you still have to work, to eat and to pay taxes to provide services.

Xertz

I think we can all assume that given that the majority of governments in Europe, North America and other parts of the developed and developing world absolutely do not want to halt their economies voluntarily, yet they almost all have, that there is some serious reason for doing so.

These are almost all market oriented, trade based economies and people absolutely understand the seriousness of what is going on and the risks.

Also the majority of these countries have open, very pluralistic democracies, so dissenting and differing and serious scientific points of view have been considered independently by hundreds of different government systems and policy makers.

It would be beyond bizarre if all of those had somehow jumped into this accidentally and it’s quite literally against every instinct of any modern economy to do what we’ve all just had to do.

So quite honestly, I can’t see how this can be seen as anything other than an unprecedentedly crisis both in its implications and seriousness.

There’s no conspiracy theory as it would be impossible for any such theory to exist on that scale across systems of government and politics that are not even connected or able to conspire.

All the indications are this is a situation we are in because the alternatives are far worse both socially and economically.

bloodless_coup

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

People have gotten soft. They are used to an easy lifestyle.

That is all this is about. We are being asked to do something that is hard. That's all.

Sitting on your hole getting in paid by the government isn't hard. That's what's currently going on for half the country.

RandomViewer

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No it isn't. It's something you want.

Trapp are you self isolating with a family or housemates or just yourself?

Imthinking his personal needs might have returned to Romania, beyond the 2 km limit

ILoveYourVibes

Trapp. You are suffering ..you are in pain.

I understand. But it will pass. This pain won't even last the entire time of the lockdown. You will feel better some days than others.

And the lockdown itself won't be forever.

You can talk to me or pm me anytime.

trapp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No it isn't. It's something you want.

Trapp are you self isolating with a family or housemates or just yourself?

Just myself.

Understand the lockdown but finding it very difficult mentally, hence being on boards at this hour!

As someone who has overcome a lot in my life so far I would have considered myself strong mentally so I would worry greatly about the effects on others if i'm struggling.

I disagree. I believe friendship, purpose and human interaction are all needs.

ILoveYourVibes

doylefe wrote: »

Sitting on your hole getting in paid by the government isn't hard. That's what's currently going on for half the country.

Im not getting paid by the govt and I am not sitting on my ....you know what.

And yes apparently it is or everyone would be able to do it. And they are obviously not.

Apparently its too hard for some people and some are at risk from depression and worse from it.

RandomViewer

doylefe wrote: »

Sitting on your hole getting in paid by the government isn't hard. That's what's currently going on for half the country.

Im back next week, we are going to do two weeks on two weeks off, can't see it lasting as we'd be a very loose interpretation of essential service

ILoveYourVibes

trapp wrote: »

Just myself.

Understand the lockdown but finding it very difficult mentally, hence being on boards at this hour!

As someone who has overcome a lot in my life so far I would have considered myself strong mentally so I would worry greatly about the effects on others if i'm struggling.

I disagree. I believe friendship, purpose and human interaction are all needs.

I thought so. I am very sorry. I can understand better now.

I am sorry i was harsh.

Of course friendship etc is a need.

If you ever need to talk or a friend you can pm me.

Im sure lots of people here would want to support you too!

FloatingVoter

doylefe wrote: »

Sitting on your hole getting in paid by the government isn't hard. That's what's currently going on for half the country.

Sadly, a good proportion will be "sitting on their hole" for considerably longer and considerately less for many years to come. Therefore the concerns raised by many posters.

trapp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Trapp. You are suffering ..you are in pain.

I understand. But it will pass. This pain won't even last the entire time of the lockdown. You will feel better some days than others.

And the lockdown itself won't be forever.

You can talk to me or pm me anytime.

Not about me.

Consider the effects outlined in the original post.

What about the thousands of children in our most disadvantaged areas.

And I'm not disagreeing with the lockdown.

I'm just considering the human effects instead of the economic impact.

LiquidZeb

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Yeah I dont follow the projected death rate.
0.13% of the at risk category (over 65) died in Italy.

How could anyone suggest we would see 200k dead here

Because some people here seem to be basking in the misery of it all. It's actually perverse the relish some people seem to get out of talking about all the death and hardship. Jesus Christ Almighty.

ILoveYourVibes

trapp wrote: »

Not about me.

Consider the effects outlined in the original post.

What about the thousands of children in our most disadvantaged areas.

And I'm not disagreeing with the lockdown.

I'm just considering the human effects instead of the economic impact.

Children are with their parents ..where they should be

trapp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Children are with their parents ..where they should be

Too simple.

Have you ever been in one of the disadvantaged areas of our country?

Because many of our children are in desperate situations at the moment.

When The United States of Capitalism has taken steps to halt the economy you know there's something serious afoot. Trump was bullish about getting things back up and running this weekend and even he retreated on such a ridiculous plan.

ILoveYourVibes

trapp wrote: »

Too simple.

Have you ever been in one of the disadvantaged areas of our country?

Because many of our children are in desperate situations at the moment.

They have been in desperate situations for a long time. And yes the disadvantaged are suffering much more right now.

And they are much more at risk of catching it due to having manual labor jobs and living in smaller areas or buildings where many hands might touch one area.

Its the disadvantaged who are suffering the highest fatalities.

ShineOn7

rob316 wrote: »

The current restrictions will end on may 5th

The current restrictions are indefinite. It'll only be lifted if the government think they can handle another surge

The only reason the government keep extending it like this is because they know if they said "Lads, this is until the end of September and then we'll review" that a huge amount of people wouldn't accept it and they'd leave their homes like it was 2019

Almost every single country is doing it like this so as to not have uproar and dissent. I think Turkey are the only ones who've said "this is indefinite, there's no set end date. Deal with it"

But that's effectively what's happening in Ireland. This is indefinite until they crunch the data and believe it's the right choice to lift the restrictions

LiquidZeb

Look I understand wholly how serious the situation is and how necessary all the social distancing measures are but if you honestly expect that we can be expected to put our lives and the economy on hold for 18-24 months then you're mad. People's lives will be destroyed the country will be beyond third world. Let's be honest the country might as well have been nuked for all the damage that would do.

anewme

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No mocking , spelling mistake get over yourself.

Your words below tried to belittle that other poster Shine and it reflected on yourself. No need to be condescending to anyone.

"The only thing I can say to you is you have no understanding of Marco and Micro economics. FB is cool but the 'experts' there dilute the knowledge."

ILoveYourVibes

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Look I understand wholly how serious the situation is and how necessary all the social distancing measures are but if you honestly expect that we can be expected to put our lives and the economy on hold for 18-24 months then you're mad. People's lives will be destroyed the country will be beyond third world. Let's be honest the country might as well have been nuked for all the damage that would do.

Its honestly not that bad.

10000maniacs

trapp wrote: »

What a desperate situation we are in.

Having been reading this forum over the last two weeks (while banned - this is life in lockdown!!) I've been very surprised by the general argument around restrictions.

It seems to, generally, be those arguing for the economy against others arguing to continue lockdown to save lives.

In this argument I would support the lockdown. Forget the economy (even though a broken economy will lead to many silent deaths also) over protecting the health service.

My worry with the lockdowns, not just here, but all over the world, is how they will impact on our lives.

Focusing on here, a lockdown or quite severe restrictions would mean the following;

friends separated indefinitely

family separated indefinitely

No social activity for anyone

No more weddings, funerals as we knew them etc

Grandparents unable to see their granchildren and vice versa.

For children, teenagers and young people a life alone without mixing with friends, making friends, learning social skills etc.

For children no more school, no more sport, no more clubs etc.

For vulnerable children and children from disadvantaged areas a prolonged time out of school, with no support from teachers or community workers would be devastating to their future.

An increase in domestic abuse and child abuse in the home.

Many, many people out of work and living with no purpose in their lives i.e employment, sport, etc

No freedom to go where we want, when we want, within reason.

Some of the above are obviously more damaging than others but effectively we're talking about the complete erosion of our way of life.

A vaccine within a year is the absolute best and at that it's extremely optimistic.

On the other side, even with social distancing everywhere, once we try to get back to normal it's a given that more people will die.

But will that just have to be accepted, just like people die of many things. Many lives can be saved for now by locking down but how long can it go on?

Is it worth the erosion of our way of life. Is it worth confining ourselves and our children to a solitary, lonely, fearful life for a period of years?

It's not about the economy. It's about life, friendship, love and living.

In reality life is very short for everybody. A life locked up inside a house is not a future for anyone.

I think its a small price to pay to save the lives of 100,000 Irish people.
Let the virus rip and that is what's going to happen.

LiquidZeb

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its honestly not that bad.

What having people on lockdown and out of work for 18-24 months? It's a fcuking catastrophe to be blunt.

trapp

trapp wrote: »

You don't need friends or interaction or school or to able to hug your grandchildren or kiss your partner. But others might.

Human interaction is a need.

And ultimately the need for human interaction will overcome the fear of death, rightly or wrongly.

You can come out in 2026 when the vaccine is produced.

People have human interaction as we currently stand.

People live with their families, talk on the phone and Skype etc with their extended family and friends. The latter of course is not the same as being with them in person sure but anyone who had to emigrate due to the last recession already deals with this, and they/we won't be able to even do that if they are dead.

People talk to shop workers at tills even for a few minutes and, to other people in queues, even two meters apart.

I have no love for the restrictions and I understand that we're going to have to deal with less or none before a vaccine is found and people are going to have to take risks with this, but most people who appear to want out of the restrictions as they stand appear to be sick of being stuck with their family or are just concerned about their portfolio.

trapp

DubInMeath wrote: »

People have human interaction as we currently stand.

People live with their families, talk on the phone and Skype etc with their extended family and friends. The latter of course is not the same as being with them in person sure but anyone who had to emigrate due to the last recession already deals with this, and they/we won't be able to even do that if they are dead.

People talk to shop workers at tills even for a few minutes and, to other people in queues, even two meters apart.

I have no love for the restrictions and I understand that we're going to have to deal with less or none before a vaccine is found and people are going to have to take risks with this, but most people who appear to want out of the restrictions as they stand appear to be sick of being stuck with their family or are just concerned about their portfolio.

In fairness what you say is correct.

But my original post considers the human effects of a lockdown lasting a long time, into 2021 perhaps.

And these effects would be grave.