It's not the economy, it's our way of life.

Plumbthedepths

anewme wrote: »

Your words below tried to belittle that other poster Shine and it reflected on yourself. No need to be condescending to anyone.

"The only thing I can say to you is you have no understanding of Marco and Micro economics. FB is cool but the 'experts' there dilute the knowledge."

Feel free to report my post.

ShineOn7

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Dude ballymun will have much higher fatalities than foxrock you know it i know it.

.

Why? Private health care coverage doesn't come into how people are triaged for this

ILoveYourVibes

trapp wrote: »

we can't lock down forever.

I know. I agree.

But we can last longer than this.

I am not afraid of dying either. But i am not afraid of lockdown either.

Plumbthedepths

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Jesus Christ

This is as bad as people on Facebook comparing Covid figures to TB

One thing is not like the other

Have you a point?

trapp

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Why? Private health care coverage doesn't come into how people are triaged for this

General health. Obesity, cancer and other health issues more prevalent in disadvantaged areas. More drug and alcohol abuse.

Living conditions also.

Xertz

trapp wrote: »

I agree with the lockdown!! for a period of time.

I'm just worrying about the long term impact of a lockdown into next year. Not the economic impact but the human one.

There might never be a vaccine, we can't lock down forever.

I think the human one can be mitigated to a large degree by using technology
.
Can you imagine the horrors of this in the days of every 7th house having a big P&T dial phone and a long distance call (to the next county) required a mortgage, no mobiles, no internet, no online shopping, no amazon, no Netflix, no online media, no Boards.ie, no debit cards and few credit cards, and many homes only having two tv channels?

Working from home would also have largely been impossible. So would studying from home and so on.

While it’s far, far from perfect, we’ve a good few technologies that are pretty much ubiquitous and are definitely mitigating the impact.

trapp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I know. I agree.

But we can last longer than this.

I am not afraid of dying either. But i am not afraid of lockdown either.

Of course we can.

My issue is the human effects will be very grave if we're in the same situation long term.

how long is long term, who knows?

Being afraid of lockdown depends entirely on personal circumstances, personality and what is waiting for you in your life after the lockdown.

ShineOn7

trapp wrote: »

General health. Obesity, cancer and other health issues more prevalent in disadvantaged areas. More drug and alcohol abuse.

Living conditions also.

That can be said for any ailment though. Not just Covid

trapp

Xertz wrote: »

I think the human one can be mitigated to a large degree by using technology
.
Can you imagine the horrors of this in the days of every 7th house having a big P&T dial phone and a long distance call (to the next county) required a mortgage, no internet, no online shopping, no amazon, no Netflix, no online media, no Boards.ie and many homes only having two tv channels?

I get you and short term yes.

But long term no.

I do think you are underestimating the effects of loneliness and isolation.

I spent time in prison in the past and the effects were very serious for me.

Not the regime but the absolute and utter loneliness and lack of hope.

trapp

ShineOn7 wrote: »

That can said for any ailment though. Not just Covid

Doesn't change that more will die in disadvantaged areas of the country.

trapp

trapp wrote: »

The thousands of kids in the inner city, in Tallaght, in Ballymun, in Moyross etc deserve more than that.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

Actually a lot of people in Tallaght and Ballymun aren't disadvantaged, I have mates from both areas.
Some are of course but it's more of a stereotype nowadays to say that they are disadvantaged areas.
Also given that there are people living in disadvantaged areas, lifting restrictions is most likely going to have more of an affect on them than those from more affluent areas.

Also as for your comment that your not afraid of dying, if you get to a stage that you might have to actually find out for real yes you will be, it's basic human nature to survive and want to live.

The only people who say they aren't afraid to die are full of sh1t or off their meds.

ILoveYourVibes

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Why? Private health care coverage doesn't come into how people are triaged for this

Working class people are more likely to have jobs that are manual or cannot be done from home. They are more likely to come into contact with the general public.

My cousins are nurses one in the army on the front line ...two others working in a hospital 3 working in food retail.

These are traditional working class jobs.

People in lower socio economic groups tend to have underlying health issues such as obesity diabetes etc.

People living in closer proximity or tower blocks apartments etc are going to be getting it more easily. Think of how many people touch the handle to your door and how many people touch the door to the building of an apartment block or the lift in a tower block. They are closer to each other.

They live in close proximity to each other. If a someone in a large house gets it then it might be possible to isolate a family member.

This will NOT be possible for many working class families. In my father's family they all had to share the same room to sleep in. Parents and kids. In many working families you have several generations in the same house. Kids sharing bedrooms. It will not be possible for every family to isolate someone who is sick.

Who do you think is working in tesco etc right now while others can work at home?

And for those under this class its worse. If they are on the streets or in emergency accommodation hygiene can be hard and isolation is impossible.


I don't think i have a single cousin with their own bedroom.

Plumbthedepths

Last depression was in the 20's of the last century. A little history to educate oneself on the fun that awaits us.

Xertz

trapp wrote: »

I get you and short term yes.

But long term no.

I do think you are underestimating the effects of loneliness and isolation.

I’m not saying it’s perfect or long term. We’re going to need to have those chats and even if it means sitting several meters apart in the front garden, wearing masks, it will need to happen. However, we do have a good few things we can use and we need to be making as much use of them as we can.

I was talking to an older relative of mine today and she was actually having *more* interaction with neighbours than she has ever had and is in great form. A guy who lives behind her (she’s in her 80s, he’s 30 something on trend hipster) said hello to her over her garden wall and exchanged numbers and they actually rang each other for a chat. Various neighbours are handing groceries over walls and hanging them on door knobs, leaving them on proches. People are chatting from safe distances.

All I’m saying is make the most out of a bad situation and reach out (safely) and you can still make a HUGE impact.

That lady feels for the first time in years that she has a community in the middle of the city centre and she feels much, much safer and happier as a result of that small bit of interaction with a previously unknown neighbour.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Last depression was in the 20's of the last century. A little history to educate oneself on the fun that awaits us.

And how is lifting restrictions now in Ireland going to prevent this given the depression of the 20s (actually mainly in the 30s) started in the states and they are also heading for the same depression?

trapp

DubInMeath wrote: »

Actually a lot of people in Tallaght and Ballymun aren't disadvantaged, I have mates from both areas.
Some are of course but it's more of a stereotype nowadays to say that they are disadvantaged areas.
Also given that there are people living in disadvantaged areas, lifting restrictions is most likely going to have more of an affect on them than those from more affluent areas.

Also as for your comment that your not afraid of dying, if you get to a stage that you might have to actually find out for real yes you will be, it's basic human nature to survive and want to live.

The only people who say they aren't afraid to die are full of sh1t or off their meds.

Look the area is irrelevant.

I'm not going to name the specific streets in Tallaght.

You know what I mean.

ILoveYourVibes

Originally Posted by DubInMeath View Post
Actually a lot of people in Tallaght and Ballymun aren't disadvantaged, I have mates from both areas.

I know what you mean. But there are disadvantaged people in this country.

Also many nurses they actually come from these backgrounds.

I have four cousins one is a nurse living in cabra with my aunt who has serious health issues. With the amount of people in that house it won't be possible to have my cousin who is a nurse self isolate. They have made a shed in the garden.

I have two working in a hospital but not medical staff. They are from finglas.

One is an ex army nurse. From tallaght.

I doubt you will find many nurses living in mansions these days.

They are coming from the communities most at risk. As are hospital cleaners.

never_mind

What I find most funny about boards and this forum particularly is that suddenly we have very qualified virologists. I didn’t realise we had this in ireland til recently! Guys, contact the HSE, your three articles you read from the Journal, the Guardian, and the Indo is standing to you!

never_mind

never_mind wrote: »

What I find most funny about boards and this forum particularly is that suddenly we have very qualified virologists. I didn’t realise we had this in ireland til recently! Guys, contact the HSE, your three articles you read from the Journal, the Guardian, and the Indo is standing to you!

I mean.. your research and analyses is outstanding and worthy of doctorates.

ILoveYourVibes

never_mind wrote: »

What I find most funny about boards and this forum particularly is that suddenly we have very qualified virologists. I didn’t realise we had this in ireland til recently! Guys, contact the HSE, your three articles you read from the Journal, the Guardian, and the Indo is standing to you!

The qualified virologists are saying lockdown social distance etc etc.

r93kaey5p2izun

trapp wrote: »

The thousands of kids in the inner city, in Tallaght, in Ballymun, in Moyross etc deserve more than that.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

People in those areas will suffer the highest death toll once restrictions are lifted. Many of these most disadvantaged kids are being raised by their nanny. This is a very common set up for some in these areas. The parent is not capable of being a parent even if they're still on the scene, whether through addiction or just plain immature stupidity, and so the grandparent is the de facto parent. The grandparent, though relatively young by usual standards, is often in poor health due to the usual reasons that go along with poverty and poor education. Yes, disadvantaged children need to be considered, but I'm sceptical they featured strongly on your list of concerns before they conveniently slotted into your narrative about our endangered way of life.

If you're serious, then maybe solutions that prioritise schooling for these disadvantaged children while still maintaining general restrictions could be looked at. But really I think you're more likely just looking to use disadvantaged children to prop up an argument that will see you given more freedoms regardless of the health implications.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I know what you mean. But there are disadvantaged people in this country.

Also many nurses they actually come from these backgrounds.

I have four cousins one is a nurse living in cabra with my aunt who has serious health issues. With the amount of people in that house it won't be possible to have my cousin who is a nurse self isolate. They have made a shed in the garden.

I have two working in a hospital but not medical staff. They are from finglas.

One is an ex army nurse. From tallaght.

I doubt you will find many nurses living in mansions these days.

They are coming from the communities most at risk. As are hospital cleaners.

Where did I say that there wasn't disadvantaged people living in the country, I said that there were and even some in the same areas.
I even said reducing restrictions would most likely have more of an affect on them than those from more affluent areas.

No nurses aren't living in mansions, but neither are the vast majority of people.

Xertz

I don’t think anyone posting is claiming to be a virologist or to have any particular experience. However, you can be sure that in any crisis people will gain knowledge and discuss topics be it virology, economics, politics, sociology or whatever else.

Forums like this, where you’ve robust debate and things aren’t really in a typical social media echo chamber of vacuous opinion can actually be very useful for people to tease things out and discuss points.

There are legitimate concerns being raised about the socioeconomic implications of the lock down and there are some valid technical discussions going on too.

This is something that impacts all of us and we are entitled discuss any aspect of that, and with reference to experts, reports and everything else.

I genuinely think Boards.ie level of debate on some of these topics can be very useful for all involved and in general the level of discussion on these forums is fairly facts based and not really in the realms of social media nonsense.

ILoveYourVibes

Lara Aggressive Refrigeration wrote: »

Many of these most disadvantaged kids are being raised by their nanny. This is a very common set up for some in these areas. The parent is not capable of being a parent even if they're still on the scene, whether through addiction or just plain immature stupidity, and so the grandparent is the de facto parent. .

This might be off topic. But may i please correct you. Many of my cousins were raised a lot by their grandparents but not out of neglect. It was because their mothers and fathers worked long hrs and couldn't afford childcare.

r93kaey5p2izun

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This might be off topic. But may i please correct you. Many of my cousins were raised a lot by their grandparents but not out of neglect. It was because their mothers and fathers worked long hrs and couldn't afford childcare.

They're not the people I'm referring to. Those people - people out working and becoming nurses - do not tend to suffer the most serious health impacts associated with poverty and poor education. The scenario exactly as I described is fairly widespread in many communities. I'm talking about them being 100% raised by the nanny, not just a childcare situation.

ILoveYourVibes

DubInMeath wrote: »

No nurses aren't living in mansions, but neither are the vast majority of people.

My cousins is a working nurse and currently living in a shed in cabra until this is over.

trapp

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This might be off topic. But may i please correct you. Many of my cousins were raised a lot by their grandparents but not out of neglect. It was because their mothers and fathers worked long hrs and couldn't afford childcare.

If their parents were working they were working class.

Within working class or disadvantzged communties though there are many parents in prison, or struggling with addiction.

These parents aren't working.

Off topic I know but if your cousins parents were working they weren't as disadvantaged as you think.

ILoveYourVibes

trapp wrote: »

If their parents were working they were working class.

Within working class or disadvantzged communties though there are many parents in prison, or struggling with addiction.

These parents aren't working.

Off topic I know but if your cousins parents were working they weren't as disadvantaged as you think.

I know real disadvantage trust me. I know what you mean though.

trapp

Lara Aggressive Refrigeration wrote: »

People in those areas will suffer the highest death toll once restrictions are lifted. Many of these most disadvantaged kids are being raised by their nanny. This is a very common set up for some in these areas. The parent is not capable of being a parent even if they're still on the scene, whether through addiction or just plain immature stupidity, and so the grandparent is the de facto parent. The grandparent, though relatively young by usual standards, is often in poor health due to the usual reasons that go along with poverty and poor education. Yes, disadvantaged children need to be considered, but I'm sceptical they featured strongly on your list of concerns before they conveniently slotted into your narrative about our endangered way of life.

If you're serious, then maybe solutions that prioritise schooling for these disadvantaged children while still maintaining general restrictions could be looked at. But really I think you're more likely just looking to use disadvantaged children to prop up an argument that will see you given more freedoms regardless of the health implications.

Not true on my reason for including them. In my job I work closely with families in these areas and have seen first hand the depravation present in some places.

Your point about these areas suffering more from lifting of restrictions is an excellent one though and not something I'd considered.

I still think these kids need school though if at all possible, even once a week from September.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

My cousins is a working nurse and currently living in a shed in cabra until this is over.

Yeah and so are a lot of shop workers.

She's living in a shed because she has her mother your aunt living with her, as do alot of shop workers.

Neither they or the shop workers or the majority of us live in mansions.