Top Irish Lawyer to be charged...

Marcusm

Rows Grower wrote: »

His small punishment will include loss of earnings that will amount to millions of euro.

If he is convicted, but seeing as he is one of Irelands top lawyers I can't see the Gardai taking a prosecution unless they had a firm belief they would secure a conviction.

How you can make out the victim is at fault is baffling.

Based on the Indo article, he’s a criminal defence solicitor with a practice funded by legal aid. I doubt the guards would avoid an opportunity to charge him.

the beer revolu

Marcusm wrote: »

Based on the Indo article, he’s a criminal defence solicitor with a practice funded by legal aid. I doubt the guards would avoid an opportunity to charge him.

I'd imagine that An Gardaí are mature enough to realise that someone has to defend people on Free Lega Aid and not have a vendetta against those that do.

Zebra3

I'm sure the system will come down hard on him and give him a hard slap on the wrists.

the beer revolu

Zebra3 wrote: »

I'm sure the system will come down hard on him and give him a hard slap on the wrists.

I'd say not many people see prison time for non violent theft of €400.
If found guilty, he will be struck off and will lose his career, and rightly so.
He will suffer more than your average person who nicks €400.

McCrack

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'd imagine that An Gardaí are mature enough to realise that someone has to defend people on Free Lega Aid and not have a vendetta against those that do.

Yes Gardai understand the rights of suspects.. Which includes access to a solicitor, no problem there.. Situation here is perhaps this particular solicitor is not liked and what goes around comes around as they say

mountai

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'd say not many people see prison time for non violent theft of €400.
If found guilty, he will be struck off and will lose his career, and rightly so.
He will suffer more than your average person who nicks €400.

No he wont be struck off . Remember a few years ago , when numerous low life solicitors were found out ripping off clients , who were awarded damages by the tribunal , after suffering horrific violent and sexual abuse ? . These so called "Professionals" were also awarded costs , but not happy with these costs , they plundered the amounts awarded to their clients as well . Of course their "Watchdog" the Law Society , took action , didnt they ??. Not one of them was disbarred .

McCrack

mountai wrote: »

No he wont be struck off . Remember a few years ago , when numerous low life solicitors were found out ripping off clients , who were awarded damages by the tribunal , after suffering horrific violent and sexual abuse ? . These so called "Professionals" were also awarded costs , but not happy with these costs , they plundered the amounts awarded to their clients as well . Of course their "Watchdog" the Law Society , took action , didnt they ??. Not one of them was disbarred .

A conviction of theft particularly against a client will certainly result in an application to the High Court for a strike off

Sleeper12

400 euros sounds too small an amount to take this kind of risk imo

the beer revolu

Sleeper12 wrote: »

400 euros sounds too small an amount to take this kind of risk imo

Probably not really about the money, in the same way wealthy people get caught shop lifting.

the purple tin

Marcusm wrote: »

Based on the Indo article, he’s a criminal defence solicitor with a practice funded by legal aid. I doubt the guards would avoid an opportunity to charge him.

The Gardai might well have it in for him but would it not be the DPP that decides whether or not there is a case to bring to court.

s1ippy

Sleeper12 wrote: »

400 euros sounds too small an amount to take this kind of risk imo

Unless they were doing it repeatedly and just happened to be caught this time.

Collie D

the beer revolu wrote: »

Probably not really about the money, in the same way wealthy people get caught shop lifting.

Yup. There are ***** out there who will steal just for the sake of it regardless of whether whatever they’re stealing is of any use to them.

the purple tin

Collie D wrote: »

Yup. There are ***** out there who will steal just for the sake of it regardless of whether whatever they’re stealing is of any use to them.

He probably gets a buzz from it. It would be a drop in the ocean for him so why else would he do it?

Widdensushi

his wife might have cut his cocaine /hooker allowance

Muahahaha

the beer revolu wrote: »

I'd imagine that An Gardaí are mature enough to realise that someone has to defend people on Free Lega Aid and not have a vendetta against those that do.

That depends, the most successful criminal lawyers are good because they get their clients off, often on technicalities. That can involve a humiliating experience for a Garda in the witness box in front of a judge that they have to deal with for the rest of their careers. Some criminal lawyers hate the Gardai as much as the criminals do.

Be interesting to see what comes of this. Posters will remember Judge Heather Perrin who got 2.5 years in prison for attempting to steal an elderly clients money when she was a solicitor. More recently we had the solicitor caught going into Mountjoy prison with a gram of coke in his wallet, he got off with a fine, didnt lose his career.

CrankyHaus

Considering a lawyer can be caught bringing a bag of coke into a prison, claim someone must have planted it on them, and get away Scot-free , I wouldn't hold my breath.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/solicitor-caught-with-cocaine-at-mountjoy-to-avoid-conviction-1.3382222?mode=amp

That said Heather Perrin did get a prison sentence for deception of a client to give part of his estate to her children.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1128/355606-heather-perrin-court/

Edgware

Beyond reasonable doubt.
"My client was instructed by the injured party to withdraw 600 euro, 200 to settle the initial bill and 400 to cover future expenses. The injured party is Spanish with limited ability in English. Clearly M'lud wires got crossed with a result in this unfortunate situation. My client , as yourself, attended Clongowes and certainly does not need to be engaging in the theft of such a paltry sum"

Edgware

Muahahaha wrote: »

That depends, the most successful criminal lawyers are good because they get their clients off, often on technicalities. That can involve a humiliating experience for a Garda in the witness box in front of a judge that they have to deal with for the rest of their careers. Some criminal lawyers hate the Gardai as much as the criminals do.

Be interesting to see what comes of this. Posters will remember Judge Heather Perrin who got 2.5 years in prison for attempting to steal an elderly clients money when she was a solicitor. More recently we had the solicitor caught going into Mountjoy prison with a gram of coke in his wallet, he got off with a fine, didnt lose his career.

Criminal lawyers dont "hate" the Gardai. Police like criminals are a necessary evil in maintaining the lawyers lifestyle. If the police didnt detect crime, arrest suspects, make mistakes the lawyers incomes would be fairly reduced.

na1

That was a legal fee for transaction

Chalk McHugh

Edgware wrote: »

Beyond reasonable doubt.
"My client was instructed by the injured party to withdraw 600 euro, 200 to settle the initial bill and 400 to cover future expenses. The injured party is Spanish with limited ability in English. Clearly M'lud wires got crossed with a result in this unfortunate situation. My client , as yourself, attended Clongowes and certainly does not need to be engaging in the theft of such a paltry sum"

Exactly.

McCrack

Muahahaha wrote: »

That depends, the most successful criminal lawyers are good because they get their clients off, often on technicalities. That can involve a humiliating experience for a Garda in the witness box in front of a judge that they have to deal with for the rest of their careers. Some criminal lawyers hate the Gardai as much as the criminals do.

Be interesting to see what comes of this. Posters will remember Judge Heather Perrin who got 2.5 years in prison for attempting to steal an elderly clients money when she was a solicitor. More recently we had the solicitor caught going into Mountjoy prison with a gram of coke in his wallet, he got off with a fine, didnt lose his career.

Your first paragraph is rubbish spoken by someone with zero professional experience of the criminal justice system

Rows Grower

Chalk McHugh wrote: »

Exactly.

If this was articulated by himself during questioning at the station last week it probably wouldn't have resulted in charges being brought because it sounds very plausible.

However it is as a result of the questioning that he has been charged with theft as well as perverting the course of justice. The Gardai wouldn't be proceeding with these charges unless they though they could prove them.

He's up next month anyway so we won't have long to wait and see.

Muahahaha

Edgware wrote: »

Criminal lawyers dont "hate" the Gardai. Police like criminals are a necessary evil in maintaining the lawyers lifestyle. If the police didnt detect crime, arrest suspects, make mistakes the lawyers incomes would be fairly reduced.

Hate perhaps too strong a word. But many do take a lot of enjoyment out of playing the game, that can mean discrediting a Gardas evidence due to sloppy police work. I know a few myself and they way they tell about their wins you can tell they get a certain satisfaction of getting one over on the Gardai. They're polite as hell to their face, its all professional up front but underneath they are there to win.

McCrack wrote: »

Your first paragraph is rubbish spoken by someone with zero professional experience of the criminal justice system

You've obviously never seen a criminal barrister getting their client off on a technicality, its not a nice experience for the Gardai after they put all that work in. A very simple mistake in the chain of evidence can make a case collapse, its not a good look for a Garda in front of a judge.

McCrack

It's amusing on Boards when you have posters that think they know what they're talking about and what the practice is about a particular specialism

Edgware

Rows Grower wrote: »

If this was articulated by himself during questioning at the station last week it probably wouldn't have resulted in charges being brought because it sounds very plausible.

However it is as a result of the questioning that he has been charged with theft as well as perverting the course of justice. The Gardai wouldn't be proceeding with these charges unless they though they could prove them.

He's up next month anyway so we won't have long to wait and see.

I'd say that it was the D.P.P. made the decision to charge in this case based of course on an investigation file from the Gardai. The D.P.P. wouldnt run it unless it was thought there was a strong case

Edgware

Muahahaha wrote: »

Hate perhaps too strong a word. But many do take a lot of enjoyment out of playing the game, that can mean discrediting a Gardas evidence due to sloppy police work. I know a few myself and they way they tell about their wins you can tell they get a certain satisfaction of getting one over on the Gardai. They're polite as hell to their face, its all professional up front but underneath they are there to win.



You've obviously never seen a criminal barrister getting their client off on a technicality, its not a nice experience for the Gardai after they put all that work in. A very simple mistake in the chain of evidence can make a case collapse, its not a good look for a Garda in front of a judge.

A well paid version of Cat and Mouse. You win some, you lose some but either way both police and lawyers get paid

McCrack

Edgware wrote: »

I'd say that it was the D.P.P. made the decision to charge in this case based of course on an investigation file from the Gardai. The D.P.P. wouldnt run it unless it was thought there was a strong case

Extremely unlikely the Dpp office were consulted for 400 eur alleged theft. More like station bail and district court summons will issue shortly from the clerk.

Widdensushi

McCrack wrote: »

Extremely unlikely the Dpp office were consulted for 400 eur alleged theft. More like station bail and district court summons will issue shortly from the clerk.

given the man's heritage and connection s I think someone in the dpp was definitely contacted

JustAThought

McCrack wrote: »

If he pleads or is found guilty the law society will move to strike him off, theft or dishonesty on the part of a solicitor is a big no no

No - of you have slow afternoon or week take a look at the long list of complaint after complaint filed against solicitors on the lw society pages - its an absolute joke - many still practisonv and ironically given that probate can take 2 years + as standard for a legal firm to progress the law society requires the complaint to be made within 2 years. The lists are eye watering - houses sold and the money from the sale kept, shares not transferred to the next of kin but kept by the solicitor, bank loans taken on properties deeds that the solicitors were keeping in trust for families and they never knew or gave permission to be remortgaged to the bank by someone else for their own profit, the list is shocking and what os greater is that it is extremely rare for the media to report on this - and many are still open and practising. Its a national disgrace as is the free legal aid bottomless slurry trough we provide for the vermin - both sides.

Edgware

McCrack wrote: »

Extremely unlikely the Dpp office were consulted for 400 eur alleged theft. More like station bail and district court summons will issue shortly from the clerk.

You clearly are not familiar with Court procedure.
If you are on bail there is no such procedure as being summonsed by the District Court.
You sign bail and undertake to turn up in Court at a fixed date time and place.
A summons would apply if released without signing bail or if not arrested in the first place.
I can assure you that this decision to charge was made by the D.P.P.s office. There is plenty precedent for decisions on far less serious offences being passed up to the D.P.P.