Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

TheValeyard

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Why would you set them? SEC are sending us the exams.

Disagree with it obviously but no reason to be setting them

I asked clarification on this. You are right, we are to hand out, supervision and correction of SEC exams.

Inspector Coptoor

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0420/1132688-junior-cert-galway/

Some positive news here.

Also says in the article that so far it is unclear who is supposed to mark the proposed JC school based exams in Sept.

I hope all schools dismiss the notion out of hand now

mirrorwall14

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0420/1132688-junior-cert-galway/

Some positive news here.

Also says in the article that so far it is unclear who is supposed to mark the proposed JC school based exams in Sept.

I hope all schools dismiss the notion out of hand now

That’s the head of the NAPD. It’s dead in the water now. What did the Dept do to piss them off? Really surprised to see them break rank before the dept discuss it

maynooth_rules

I have no problem whatsoever coming in during summer to help 6th years as much as possible in ****ty situation.
I do have a problem with Junior Certs being dismissed with a ****ty 'in house' assessment in September that we have to mark. We weren't consulted, and i fail to see the benefit. It just more diminishing of Junior Cert students, on top of the utter shambles that is the JC reform.

Treppen

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0420/1132688-junior-cert-galway/

Some positive news here.

Also says in the article that so far it is unclear who is supposed to mark the proposed JC school based exams in Sept.

I hope all schools dismiss the notion out of hand now

HA Told ya it would happen.

Precedent is set. JC is dead in the water now. It'll be left to local arrangements.

You can still put in your own 'remote' class test results on the JCPA part of the JC cert.

Icsics

That JC needs to be cancelled, surely they can’t have this ‘whatever ur having urself’ attitude

rainbowtrout

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0420/1132688-junior-cert-galway/

Some positive news here.

Also says in the article that so far it is unclear who is supposed to mark the proposed JC school based exams in Sept.

I hope all schools dismiss the notion out of hand now

Not sure how positive this all is. Isn't this what Ruairi Quinn wanted us to do all along. School certification of assessment???

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/students-back-junior-cycle-reforms-but-fear-bias-1.1804393

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

That’s the head of the NAPD. It’s dead in the water now. What did the Dept do to piss them off? Really surprised to see them break rank before the dept discuss it

He's head of the NAPD, doesn't mean they agreed to it.

km79

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Not sure how positive this all is. Isn't this what Ruairi Quinn wanted us to do all along. School certification of assessment???

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/students-back-junior-cycle-reforms-but-fear-bias-1.1804393

An extra set of summer exams is not what I need in my life right now

km79

Comprehensive FAQ from asti https://www.asti.ie/news/faqs-on-state-examinations-2020-and-continuity-of-teaching-l/?fbclid=IwAR15xqRZfUHBxvGnXmZ5zV589_70iLGJqf2Y_5utvsJxRdCUfDe5kDUsQj0

Still a lot of questions but better than nothing
July is a done deal
“Communication” before that too
But we get a “June break”


To all those who feel like they are being forced into video conferencing this is a hugely important paragraph
“Real-time teaching or live communication:
It must be borne in mind that real-time teaching or live communication can potentially give rise to concerns pertaining to privacy and child protection. There are no current agreed guidelines in operation regarding such engagement with students. There have been few or no risk assessments undertaken in the vast majority of schools with regard to these activities and whole school policies have not been developed. It is in that context that teachers should consider the usage of such facilities. Many schools are uploading material for students rather than engaging in real-time teaching or live communication.”

khalessi

km79 wrote: »

Comprehensive FAQ from asti https://www.asti.ie/news/faqs-on-state-examinations-2020-and-continuity-of-teaching-l/?fbclid=IwAR15xqRZfUHBxvGnXmZ5zV589_70iLGJqf2Y_5utvsJxRdCUfDe5kDUsQj0

Still a lot of questions but better than nothing
July is a done deal
“Communication” before that too
But we get a “June break”


To all those who feel like they are being forced into video conferencing this is a hugely important paragraph
“Real-time teaching or live communication:
It must be borne in mind that real-time teaching or live communication can potentially give rise to concerns pertaining to privacy and child protection. There are no current agreed guidelines in operation regarding such engagement with students. There have been few or no risk assessments undertaken in the vast majority of schools with regard to these activities and whole school policies have not been developed. It is in that context that teachers should consider the usage of such facilities. Many schools are uploading material for students rather than engaging in real-time teaching or live communication.”

Oooohhh they'll love that in the latest teacher bashing thread

randylonghorn

km79 wrote: »

Comprehensive FAQ from asti https://www.asti.ie/news/faqs-on-state-examinations-2020-and-continuity-of-teaching-l/?fbclid=IwAR15xqRZfUHBxvGnXmZ5zV589_70iLGJqf2Y_5utvsJxRdCUfDe5kDUsQj0

Still a lot of questions but better than nothing
July is a done deal
“Communication” before that too
But we get a “June break”

What is the ASTI’s position on the Minister’s announcements regarding the Junior Certificate Examinations 2020?

....

We believe that the well-being of these students is best served by the freedom of these students to enjoy the summer of 2020 without the pressure of examinations hanging over them. The ASTI believes teachers and students will have fulfilled their commitment to Junior Certificate when the present school year ends on May 29th.

Sounds like they agree with yer man from NAPD.

C__MC

km79 wrote: »

An extra set of summer exams is not what I need in my life right now

Surely it's better then coming back in September and messing about with exams with last years third years

August is bad enough with something like that on the horizon

Personally I'd rather assess them before June and leave it at that

km79

C__MC wrote: »

Surely it's better then coming back in September and messing about with exams with last years third years

August is bad enough with something like that on the horizon

Personally I'd rather assess them before June and leave it at that

Reading the FAQ it looks like we have a 2 week 'june break" as our summer holidays
I do not want to spend that sitting in front of a computer correcting exams that have been completed at home so therefore have no integrity I have enough results sent home for JC this year and the two before it to give them an overall average if that is needed. It will be better than the Merit/H Merit they were all going to get in the JC anyway
It is assessment for the sake of assessment. We still have to give back the results of CBA 2 as we were due to have our SLAR the week after we closed!!!

The exams in September are never going to happen. This is a publicity stunt from a man who loves being in the media.

jimmytwotimes 2013

km79 wrote: »

Reading the FAQ it looks like we have a 2 week 'june break" as our summer holidays
I do not want to spend that sitting in front of a computer correcting exams that have been completed at home so therefore have no integrity I have enough results sent home for JC this year and the two before it to give them an overall average if that is needed. It will be better than the Merit/H Merit they were all going to get in the JC anyway
It is assessment for the sake of assessment. We still have to give back the results of CBA 2 as we were due to have our SLAR the week after we closed!!!

The exams in September are never going to happen. This is a publicity stunt from a man who loves being in the media.

As far as I can see, everyone is to down tools on May 29 and take a break. If a school is running summer exams, they need to be corrected and have reports submitted by that date. So no school should be running exams in the last week of term.

2011abc

Are we meant to be ‘working ‘ through second half of June , July and August ?!

Bobtheman

2011abc wrote: »

Are we meant to be ‘working ‘ through second half of June , July and August ?!

No . No document states that. You are asked to maintain a link with LC students June until mid July. Asked. Not ordered to. Then you are asked to come for two weeks pre LC teaching. All voluntary. But there is a real make it up as we go along plan by the government. Thus plug away as normal until early May. Then see what they say on May 5th . Policy up to then a bit bipolar. Rumours will fly.
If I was head of Asti I'd be wary of talking to media given the health experts and government have no definite plan yet.
I'm tunning out until early May. Otherwise I will resemble a dog chasing its own tail. So will you all.

ethical

A lorry load of teachers retiring out of this! New recruits and equality of pay ....even if it is a lower equality of pay,and money saved in future years as the JC will be a school summer test!

doc_17

The school is Galway is interesting. Students were informed this morning. So given the announcement was the day we finished up 2 weeks ago this might have been a solo decision by the Principal.

ricero

I think what the school in Galway is doing is a disgrace and union members should refuse to take part in it.

Sets a very bad precedent.

History Queen

ricero wrote: »

I think what the school in Galway is doing is a disgrace and union members should refuse to take part in it.

Sets a very bad precedent.

Why? Genuine question, I see a worse precedent with a school certified Junior Cert in September.

randylonghorn

ethical wrote: »

.... money saved in future years as the JC will be a school summer test!

ASTI FAQ wrote:

Are precedents being set?

The ASTI is conscious of the enormous efforts that our members have already made since the commencement of the Public Health Emergency to maintain teaching and learning in our school communities. It is clear that this will continue to be the case. Members have expressed a worry that the situation will be exploited as a precedent when normal work recommences and in future industrial relations negotiations. Following representations, the Department of Education and Skills has confirmed the following in writing:

“It is accepted that such temporary measures are being operated by staff on a without prejudice basis and will not be used in any way by the Department as a precedent in any subsequent industrial relations discussions.”

The ASTI will be vigilant that this commitment will be upheld.

Now, I'd be kinda a "never say never" person myself where politicians are concerned, but it's at least a bulwark, and it's up to ASTI and TUI and their members to ensure that it's set in stone.

km79

History Queen wrote: »

Why? Genuine question, I see a worse precedent with a school certified Junior Cert in September.

I seen he said teachers and students were delighted. Did he contact them all over Easter?
I seen that it is to be included on their JCPA. So in effect it is forming part of the Junior Cycle with teachers carrying out the final assessment........I am sceptical. i have seen that Principal in the school waxing lyrical about how much the staff and students love not having books and working completely electronically. i have heard a lot of murmurings to the contrary. And indeed there has been a report saying a balance is far better
But that is a complete tangent!!!!!

History Queen

km79 wrote: »

I seen he said teachers and students were delighted. Did he contact them all over Easter?
I seen that it is to be included on their JCPA. So in effect it is forming part of the Junior Cycle with teachers carrying out the final assessment........I am sceptical. i have seen that Principal in the school waxing lyrical about how much the staff and students love not having books and working completely electronically. i have heard a lot of murmurings to the contrary. And indeed there has been a report saying a balance is far better
But that is a complete tangent!!!!!

Oh right, I'm only taking it at face value as I know nothing of the school or principal and based on that alone I think a summer test/assessment would be much better for students (in terms of finality/closure on a difficult academic year)than some watered down pretence of Junior Cert in September, and all of the disruption it will cause schools trying to get back to normal (hopefully!)

History Queen

km79 wrote: »

I seen he said teachers and students were delighted. Did he contact them all over Easter?
I seen that it is to be included on their JCPA. So in effect it is forming part of the Junior Cycle with teachers carrying out the final assessment........I am sceptical. i have seen that Principal in the school waxing lyrical about how much the staff and students love not having books and working completely electronically. i have heard a lot of murmurings to the contrary. And indeed there has been a report saying a balance is far better
But that is a complete tangent!!!!!

Oh right, I'm only taking it at face value as I know nothing of the school or principal and based on that alone I think a summer test/assessment would be much better for students (in terms of finality/closure on a difficult academic year)than some watered down pretence of Junior Cert in September, and all of the disruption it will cause schools trying to get back to normal (hopefully!)

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

I seen he said teachers and students were delighted. Did he contact them all over Easter?
I seen that it is to be included on their JCPA. So in effect it is forming part of the Junior Cycle with teachers carrying out the final assessment........I am sceptical. i have seen that Principal in the school waxing lyrical about how much the staff and students love not having books and working completely electronically. i have heard a lot of murmurings to the contrary. And indeed there has been a report saying a balance is far better
But that is a complete tangent!!!!!

Hmm You reckon his eye is on a different prize?

Well as long as teachers hold the line. The JCPA part of the JC is NOT state certification by teachers, that's why we agreed to the CBAs back in the way back when.

I don't mind setting an online remote 3rd year exam now to replace September ... But I really stress that the results should not go anywhere near any piece of SEC paper, if that happens it's bye bye state exams for 3rd year.

In saying that we'll be told to do our bid and Don the green Jersey when the cuts come. Better to give in to zilch now and have a few chips at the table when FEMPI is back.

Inspector Coptoor

km79 wrote: »

I seen he said teachers and students were delighted. Did he contact them all over Easter?
I seen that it is to be included on their JCPA. So in effect it is forming part of the Junior Cycle with teachers carrying out the final assessment........I am sceptical. i have seen that Principal in the school waxing lyrical about how much the staff and students love not having books and working completely electronically. i have heard a lot of murmurings to the contrary. And indeed there has been a report saying a balance is far better
But that is a complete tangent!!!!!

I’ve heard through the grapevine that they had a staff meeting this morning so no contact over Easter.
Staff were consulted.

I’d be happy to not have to deal with the clusterfcuk of the JC in September.

Would be Unhappy to have an extra set of exams to mark at the end of May but wound make them as long as it was a clearly stated house exam and nothing to do with JC as it would set a dangerous precedent.

rainbowtrout

doc_17 wrote: »

The school is Galway is interesting. Students were informed this morning. So given the announcement was the day we finished up 2 weeks ago this might have been a solo decision by the Principal.

Ya, so either he's claiming he consulted with everyone but just made the decision himself, or teachers did not get a break over Easter and were getting emails or whatever about this.

It's not a school I would ever work in, not just based on this.

km79

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

I’ve heard through the grapevine that they had a staff meeting this morning so no contact over Easter.
Staff were consulted.

I’d be happy to not have to deal with the clusterfcuk of the JC in September.

Would be Unhappy to have an extra set of exams to mark at the end of May but wound make them as long as it was a clearly stated house exam and nothing to do with JC as it would set a dangerous precedent.

Any house exam for Junior Certs at the end of May is setting a dangerous precedent.
They have 3 years worth of work plus CBAs etc . They will be getting their JCPA to acknowledge these 3 years .
The unions were also calling for and will get imo a state cert with no exams in September. He has really muddied the waters.
I have seen the document the school have released explaining their decision(it is circulating on social media). As impressive as it is there is no way it was done up in consultation with teachers during a staff meeting today. There was not enough time in one staff meeting to generate the detail in it.
Also important to note that students can appeal the schools grade......to the school's principal......who will then allow them to sit the JC papers in September anyway !!!!! So in theory the class teacher could then end up correcting that as well . Not that i think that will happen anyway
And if they are indeed cancelled in the mean time how does the school facilitate this appeal if the SEC are no longer providing the papers.
It is a bizarre decision

rainbowtrout

km79 wrote: »

Any house exam for Junior Certs at the end of May is setting a dangerous precedent.
They have 3 years worth of work plus CBAs etc . They will be getting their JCPA to acknowledge these 3 years .
The unions were also calling for and will get imo a state cert with no exams in September. He has really muddied the waters.
I have seen the document the school have released explaining their decision(it is circulating on social media). As impressive as it is there is no way it was done up in consultation with teachers during a staff meeting today. There was not enough time in one staff meeting to generate the detail in it.
Also important to note that students can appeal the schools grade......to the school's principal......who will then allow them to sit the JC papers in September anyway !!!!! So in theory the class teacher could then end up correcting that as well . Not that i think that will happen anyway
And if they are indeed cancelled in the mean time how does the school facilitate this appeal if the SEC are no longer providing the papers.
It is a bizarre decision

And with enough time to do a press release to RTE and the Indo.

I thought the quote about emailing him was interesting:

The school took the decision in consultation with parents and it has published full details of its plan on its website today. He has invited pupils to email him if they have any issues.

Surely that opportunity should have been afforded to them beforehand if everyone was consulted about this?