Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

rainbowtrout

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Every situation is different but we're expected to input exam results in mid-June. Different school managers are going to have different interpretations of what's going on and some are going to deliberately use situation to harass their staff.

Directives from both unions need to be unified and clear.

If management are harassing staff unnecessarily then staff should get on to their union and get it sorted. We did that in my school at the very start of all this and it was very effective.

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Would it be clear by now that doing projects and teaching for two weeks just won't be possible?

Award marks for projects and then schools can just focus on organising some block classes for LCs.

Feedback from some of our students also indicates they feel the two weeks are too close to the LC when they would probably prefer to be just focused on study and not losing time travelling to and from school

We are 10 days from the end of the current lockdown. We haven't been promised anything for the 5th. I presume the Dept of Health have an idea of the expected trend for the next 10 days and a plan is being worked out based on that forecast. If things change then all bets are off. People unfortunately are like children in this country, if they were told that restrictions were definitely going to be lifted on the 5th they'd start going out and about now.

If they haven't got a set plan for what is going to happen in 10 days time .... and the effects of that which will take a week or two to emerge, they're not going to announce plans for August which is 3 months away.

jimmytwotimes 2013

rainbowtrout wrote: »

If management are harassing staff unnecessarily then staff should get on to their union and get it sorted. We did that in my school at the very start of all this and it was very effective.



We are 10 days from the end of the current lockdown. We haven't been promised anything for the 5th. I presume the Dept of Health have an idea of the expected trend for the next 10 days and a plan is being worked out based on that forecast. If things change then all bets are off. People unfortunately are like children in this country, if they were told that restrictions were definitely going to be lifted on the 5th they'd start going out and about now.

If they haven't got a set plan for what is going to happen in 10 days time .... and the effects of that which will take a week or two to emerge, they're not going to announce plans for August which is 3 months away.

Very few on our staff willing to speak up so it will continue thus

Treppen

Minister set to let schools hold their own exams for Junior Cycle

Anyway, fair play to him... if it's true.

paddybarry

Treppen wrote: »

Minister set to let schools hold their own exams for Junior Cycle

Anyway, fair play to him... if it's true.

I dont believe results of these exams should appear on junior cycle profile of achievement. If they do, we have in affect assessed out students for certification.

km79

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0424/1134586-leaving-cert-guidance/

Absolutely spot on

km79

http://twitter.com/Education_Ire/status/1253710841108746242
Friday evening update
Don’t bother reading
There is no update

Bobtheman

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Every situation is different but we're expected to input exam results in mid-June. Different school managers are going to have different interpretations of what's going on and some are going to deliberately use situation to harass their staff.

Directives from both unions need to be unified and clear.

Exam results for whom and how ? If that was suggested to me I'd simply say I will give an exam via email late May and have the results in by first week of June. That's the way it goes in our school normally. If you give into harassment then you have only yourself to blame. I'm. Not saying you will but every teacher is perfectly entitled to cease operations as per normal school calendar.

Bobtheman

Given news today and general drift don't expect much change May 5th

Dickie10

id say another fortnight of lockdown on may 5th

Treppen

paddybarry wrote: »

I dont believe results of these exams should appear on junior cycle profile of achievement. If they do, we have in affect assessed out students for certification.

Well no, the JCPA is school certification. The SEC exam grade is state certification.

Millionaire only not

Dickie10 wrote: »

id say another fortnight of lockdown on may 5th

And going with resurgence in Germany and Japan , it’s probably right decision but people are getting itchy to Go back to some normality.
Whatever that will be !

paddybarry

Treppen wrote: »

Well no, the JCPA is school certification. The SEC exam grade is state certification.

But the sec exam grade is one that appears on jcpa. If that exam is cancelled then there should be no result from a school based assessment replacing it. Certainly not one done remotely which can be compromised.

Results from school based assessment should be communicated in normal way.
Just my two cents.

Treppen

paddybarry wrote: »

But the sec exam grade is one that appears on jcpa. If that exam is cancelled then there should be no result from a school based assessment replacing it. Certainly not one done remotely which can be compromised.

Results from school based assessment should be communicated in normal way.
Just my two cents.

No the SEC exam grade (given by markers over the summer) doesn't appear on the JCPA.
The JCPA is seperate from the JC state certification.

..and that's thanks to our union fighting for it.

Treppen

Looking more likely it'll be JC may exams.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/junior-cycle-exams-in-september-set-to-be-replaced-with-school-assessments-in-may-1.4237504?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR0mh-X3rkBiwRnF-j4iFbhmkFlMm8KAOMjdSAaC_Fq7-3cZABhERN2Se7Q

The department/Irish times say that it won't be state certified but will go under JCPA.

I can sense my 3rd years are going to be a little bit more engaged now :pac:

You'd wonder why the ministers never get tired of its 'senior sources' leaking information to the newspapers eh!

jimmytwotimes 2013

The way this has played out is so unfair on third years.

April 10, JC cancelled, sit papers in school in Sept

April 24, hang on, third years maybe sit an exam in May instead. Nothing decided yet tho. So, you know, have a nice weekend.

Any third year would have eased off study on first announcement, and reasonably so, as exam was now so far away.

Now they maybe back looking at in exams in 3.5 wks.

Joke

RealJohn

Treppen wrote: »

No the SEC exam grade (given by markers over the summer) doesn't appear on the JCPA.
The JCPA is seperate from the JC state certification.

..and that's thanks to our union fighting for it.

That was my understanding too, so I looked it up. According to this, it’s not the case. I’ve never actually seen a JCPA, so I don’t know, but according to this (section 1.6, on page 5), the SEC marks the exams, reports the results to the school, and the school includes them in the JCPA, which is now the only official certification of those results.
I did not know that, and I’m not okay with it, but I now absolutely agree that the results of any exams marked by class teachers should not go on that certificate, and the unions need to back us on that.
JCPA Handbook for Schools, 2019

paddybarry

RealJohn wrote: »

That was my understanding too, so I looked it up. According to this, it’s not the case. I’ve never actually seen a JCPA, so I don’t know, but according to this (section 1.6, on page 5), the SEC marks the exams, reports the results to the school, and the school includes them in the JCPA, which is now the only official certification of those results.
I did not know that, and I’m not okay with it, but I now absolutely agree that the results of any exams marked by class teachers should not go on that certificate, and the unions need to back us on that.
JCPA Handbook for Schools, 2019

100%

Rosita

Treppen wrote: »

Minister set to let schools hold their own exams for Junior Cycle

Anyway, fair play to him... if it's true.

I have no idea why you would say "fair play to him". He took the decision only because it was forced upon him when a few schools announced they were doing their own exams and it was obvious this would start a flood.

His announcement is a face-saving exercise to bring Department policy in line with reality. The Minister has taken a battering on this JC issue and made one bad decision after another. Let's not pretend anything else.

Treppen

RealJohn wrote: »

That was my understanding too, so I looked it up. According to this, it’s not the case. I’ve never actually seen a JCPA, so I don’t know, but according to this (section 1.6, on page 5), the SEC marks the exams, reports the results to the school, and the school includes them in the JCPA, which is now the only official certification of those results.
I did not know that, and I’m not okay with it, but I now absolutely agree that the results of any exams marked by class teachers should not go on that certificate, and the unions need to back us on that.
JCPA Handbook for Schools, 2019

Ok apologies I got the wrong end of the stick.

But I would assume that the grades won't be going under the ' State Certification' column.
It'll go under the CBA or other areas of learning.
Maybe they'll draw up a new document. Unions better keep an eye on that!

km79

http://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1253973115333378049

Yeah “fair play to him “

Next to go will be the practicals
Now that he/people have taken the time to sit down and actually think about how it will all work
It won’t

RealJohn

Treppen wrote: »

Ok apologies I got the wrong end of the stick.

But I would assume that the grades won't be going under the ' State Certification' column.
It'll go under the CBA or other areas of learning.
Maybe they'll draw up a new document. Unions better keep an eye on that!

Yeah, I’d be concerned that they’d try to get schools to issue them in a similar format, possibly removing the word ‘certified’, or worse, ‘state’, from the bit where it says state certified exams, but that it would be left as is, otherwise.

ethical

So ,a new can of worms opens,the 3rd yr exams will be given in class (albeit online),same as 1st and 2nd yr Summer test.

The Unions say 29th May is end date,down tools,take 2 weeks break and then engage with LC from 15th June,first 2 wks online ,then in school.

The problem with this is that school Principals will ignore this 29th May finish date......and treat it like they do every other year and have teachers correcting for most of June ,entering marks online and then the report is sent home to parents.If Principals do same this year it means teachers will not get a break until 2nd Sept......and new year starts ....maybe...3rd Sept.


No thoughts once more for wellbeing of staff,mental illness is definitely going to be on the rise!

THE UNIONS MUST NOW ISSUE A DIRECTIVE TO EACH AND EVERY SCHOOL AND LOOK AFTER THEIR TEACHERS .

jimmytwotimes 2013

ethical wrote: »

The problem with this is that school Principals will ignore this 29th May finish date......and treat it like they do every other year and have teachers correcting for most of June ,entering marks online and then the report is sent home to parents.If Principals do same this year it means teachers will not get a break until 2nd Sept......and new year starts ....maybe...3rd Sept.

Already happening. We've been given the end of June as time for exam results to be entered

Management will also probably hold staff meetings in June to organise July classes as the LC timetable won't be issued until the start of June and currently nobody knows how the July fortnight will be organised due to practicals.

A buddy of mine said their staff was asked to consider a third week in July to get practicals done.

Unions needed now

ricero

Jasus didn't think we could see a worse and more incompetent minister of education than both Quinn and Bruton but Mchugh might just take the biscuit now.

amacca

ricero wrote: »

Jasus didn't think we could see a worse and more incompetent minister of education than both Quinn and Bruton but Mchugh might just take the biscuit now.

I thought he was a lot better than both of those tbh.....at least up until this current crisis he did very little damage to our education system. Quinn was a disaster ...I felt the office was all about him and his "legacy"....but that legacy is a disaster imo...and Bruton well I couldn't warm to him if I was on fire.

km79

Can i ask a rhetorical question that i have been thinking about for a while ahead of a summer of "communication"?
Are school policies strong enough on use of virtual classrooms? Or are they there at all?
GDPR seems to be gone out the window anyway but I am sure it will raise it's head as soon as a teacher takes a misstep!

For example if a distressed student contacts a teacher by private message (on G Classrom a student can pm on any assignment given at any stage. Not possible to switch this function off). How does the teacher respond and to whom? What happens if they have logged out for evening/weekend (as I TRY to do) and they miss the message and the situation escalates in the mean time ?

I might be overthinking it but tbh I can see these situations arising over the summer for lc students and maybe even before for other year groups. And beyond the summer forever more.....guidance urgently needed imo

ethical

I know of an ETB that has sent a whole load of sh1t to staff re :gdpr.....they have themselves covered!!!

I also know an ETB that has devised a form (because the fcukers do not trust their staff ), form is nicely titled " Protection and Accountability"!!!!!!!!!!
.......................and guess what,yes ,you got it,...the staff member must fill in every class,(in other words their timetable!) and the work they are doing with a particular class,the engagement by students (which is difficult and may not be known for a few days until feedback by way of homework etc comes back from student),percentage participation and wait for it 5 different teaching methodologies used !!!!!
A fcukin joke.Perhaps if staff wrote crap in all of these forms they would never be noticed!!!!

You gotta love the title though: Protection & Accountability"........its nearly as bad as "Confidence & Supply"!!!

jimmytwotimes 2013

Local arrangements have turned into a free-for-all

jimmytwotimes 2013

ethical wrote: »

I know of an ETB that has sent a whole load of sh1t to staff re :gdpr.....they have themselves covered!!!

I also know an ETB that has devised a form (because the fcukers do not trust their staff ), form is nicely titled " Protection and Accountability"!!!!!!!!!!
.......................and guess what,yes ,you got it,...the staff member must fill in every class,(in other words their timetable!) and the work they are doing with a particular class,the engagement by students (which is difficult and may not be known for a few days until feedback by way of homework etc comes back from student),percentage participation and wait for it 5 different teaching methodologies used !!!!!
A fcukin joke.Perhaps if staff wrote crap in all of these forms they would never be noticed!!!!

You gotta love the title though: Protection & Accountability"........its nearly as bad as "Confidence & Supply"!!!

ETB school and we've the same craic. A weekly form for each class taught, 8x forms a week.

Absolute nonsense

km79

Thanks but doesn’t even really address my rhetorical concerns above

Genuinely interested in schools approaches to this