Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

Bobtheman

The Irish media keep whipping up ' will anybody think of the children " while their parents wonder how they will put bread on the table and the death toll rising.
Plus I work in a school where many kids don't give a flying fxxx despite the entire system throwing mountains of cash at them.

Paulbeth

km79 wrote: »

Can i ask a rhetorical question that i have been thinking about for a while ahead of a summer of "communication"?
Are school policies strong enough on use of virtual classrooms? Or are they there at all?
GDPR seems to be gone out the window anyway but I am sure it will raise it's head as soon as a teacher takes a misstep!

For example if a distressed student contacts a teacher by private message (on G Classrom a student can pm on any assignment given at any stage. Not possible to switch this function off). How does the teacher respond and to whom? What happens if they have logged out for evening/weekend (as I TRY to do) and they miss the message and the situation escalates in the mean time ?

I might be overthinking it but tbh I can see these situations arising over the summer for lc students and maybe even before for other year groups. And beyond the summer forever more.....guidance urgently needed imo

I can appreciate your worry about your students, but would issues like the ones you’ve raised not be covered under child protection guidance or existing school policies? If so, these should be followed I think. I know that it’s hard to switch off in the evenings and at weekends if you’re concerned about students but in normal times students wouldn’t be able to contact you at those times anyway (right?). What would they do under normal circumstances? We’re not living in normal times right now, but teachers can only do so much, and must try to avoid pushing their own emotional reserves and professional skills and boundaries.

km79

Paulbeth wrote: »

I can appreciate your worry about your students, but would issues like the ones you’ve raised not be covered under child protection guidance or existing school policies? If so, these should be followed I think. I know that it’s hard to switch off in the evenings and at weekends if you’re concerned about students but in normal times students wouldn’t be able to contact you at those times anyway (right?). What would they do under normal circumstances? We’re not living in normal times right now, but teachers can only do so much, and must try to avoid pushing their own emotional reserves and professional skills and boundaries.

Agreed
But they are able to contact 24/7 now . And quite possibly forever more once this becomes embedded in schools which I think it will
Regarding school policies no I don’t think they do cover this adequately on most schools . That’s why I’m wondering I suppose

Good point regarding the child protection guidelines. Might cover this
So I guess that means P/DP have to be contactable all the time now .......

I’m only thinking out loud tbh
But I am worried about LC students this summer . I really think the Minister need to make the decision to award 100% for all practicals ASAP
That will alleviate some uncertainty and stress for students and teachers

shesty

I'm working from home with my laptop home, contactable 24/7.Phone number available to the company.
Outside working hours I won't be checking, whatever it is can wait til the next or Monday.Same as always, as if I am in the office.
Set your hours, make them known and draw the line.Tell the kids I am available between hours X and Y, otherwise it will be the next day or Monday.Same as for the rest of us working from home. Nobody else is going to do it for you, it has to come from you.You are not their parent, there is no obligation on you to be available to them 24/7.

Seannew1

How are the SEC going to organise enough superintendents to man all the extra centres in July?? Would have said myself that this is very challenging even with extra JC superintendents.

C__MC

Mc Hugh needs to clarify the situation ASAP

He also needs to clarify if students are getting the full Marks for any project work or if it is void.

Embarrassing for the Department this whole mess

Are schools still getting the official papers from SEC?

sandyxxx

Seannew1 wrote: »

How are the SEC going to organise enough superintendents to man all the extra centres in July?? Would have said myself that this is very challenging even with extra JC superintendents.

I Supervise the state exams annually but am likely opting out this year due to H&S/childcare concerns....can see many in the same boat!

happywithlife

Seannew1 wrote: »

How are the SEC going to organise enough superintendents to man all the extra centres in July?? Would have said myself that this is very challenging even with extra JC superintendents.

I worry about this too. Usually superintend but have very much self isolated the family as we've a vulnerable child. Maybe If I knew in advance the conditions I might consider it but if the usual process you only find on the day before the exams the amount if students etc on your centre than I'd be far more reluctant. Presumably papers will also have to sent to schools directly and none of this collect in a hotel crap.
Was thinking about it the other day - if for arguments sake they put 30 students in the correct social distance in a big halla or something. Not only would I have to interact with them but also co-signing exam papers beforehand, there's the attendant, someone to open the room where paper are stored, queueing at the post office, return of boxes afterwards(?) ...that's a whole lotta interaction & a high risk imo

km79

Can see college students doing it

r93kaey5p2izun

How will special centres work? Difficult to social distance when reading and scribing. Impossible really. Some will volunteer regardless, but in schools where 20-30 readers/scribes are needed for the LC, they will struggle I think. They already did.

Postgrad10

km79 wrote: »

Can see college students doing it

Not feasible. And how would they be vetted in time?

reg114

km79 wrote: »

Can see college students doing it

Which is exactly what I did a few years back, its boring work but handy cash

political analyst

The leadership of both the ASTI and the TUI can't just tell their members to work through June - and if members are balloted on it they'll never vote for it.

km79

political analyst wrote: »

The leadership of both the ASTI and the TUI can't just tell their members to work through June - and if members are balloted on it they'll never vote for it.

By the time all this is sorted there won’t be time for a ballot
Maybe that’s the plan !

km79

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Not feasible. And how would they be vetted in time?

“Silly” things like that don’t matter anymore sure
We are in a national emergency
The exams have to happen “by hook or by crook “

political analyst

km79 wrote: »

By the time all this is sorted there won’t be time for a ballot
Maybe that’s the plan !

Then why would TUI and ASTI members agree to do it?

solerina

km79 wrote: »

By the time all this is sorted there won’t be time for a ballot
Maybe that’s the plan !

Why ? We don’t have to do it, no ballot is going to change that, do it if we want but we can’t be forced to do anything beyond May 29th.

km79

political analyst wrote: »

Then why would TUI and ASTI members agree to do it?

We aren’t going to be asked to do anything . The union unlike the student and parents unions have as of yet not gathered opinions of their membership in a structured fashion and then published results
In others words. A survey. Not emails . A survey with results published

We will be “encouraged “ to do whatever the Minister ends up settling on
“Local arrangements “ will apply

deiseindublin

Agree that they really need to publish conditions early and let everyone decide if they want to proceed with applications.

Also, if there is only 1 exam a day there will be no daily allowance for lots of us, and definitely none if the exams are max 2 hours duration.

I know the working day would be shorter but I'm not so sure it'd be worth one's while, while taking the extra risk into account, and maybe childcare if my other half not wfh at that stage.

I can't remember the daily rate but I remember somebody online mentioned getting 2 x half day rates instead of a full day rate, which only matters if you're off AM or PM. Now, if they do that, they haven't a hope of getting any teachers turning up. Think it would be €65 less 55% = €29.25

Bobtheman

km79 wrote: »

We aren’t going to be asked to do anything . The union unlike the student and parents unions have as of yet not gathered opinions of their membership in a structured fashion and then published results
In others words. A survey. Not emails . A survey with results published

We will be “encouraged “ to do whatever the Minister ends up settling on
“Local arrangements “ will apply

Local arrangements is a lot of blather. Principals can consult staff and talk about " ageeed" positions but In the end it's up to each individual from a legal and moral standpoint.

2011abc

deiseindublin wrote: »

Agree that they really need to publish conditions early and let everyone decide if they want to proceed with applications.

Also, if there is only 1 exam a day there will be no daily allowance for lots of us, and definitely none if the exams are max 2 hours duration.

I know the working day would be shorter but I'm not so sure it'd be worth one's while, while taking the extra risk into account, and maybe childcare if my other half not wfh at that stage.

I can't remember the daily rate but I remember somebody online mentioned getting 2 x half day rates instead of a full day rate, which only matters if you're off AM or PM. Now, if they do that, they haven't a hope of getting any teachers turning up. Think it would be €65 less 55% = €29.25

Fuel could eat up a good chunk of that , you wouldn’t want to get a coffee !

deiseindublin

Reading this will be like rubbing salt in a wound for our LC students.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-52417659

Treppen

deiseindublin wrote: »

Reading this will be like rubbing salt in a wound for our LC students.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-52417659

How so? There's always students from the north applying to Irish college.

km79

Colm O Rourke again talking absolute sense in the iIndependent . A sure sign that Principals are under pressure too!
To summarise McHughs original plan was unworkable and was in response to media and twitter pressure
That it is still is and that schools need clarity NOW

Interesting ......

ethical

.....and Ciara Kelly wondering could the class of 2020 boycott the LC!

km79

ethical wrote: »

.....and Ciara Kelly wondering could the class of 2020 boycott the LC!

Did not even bother reading whatever she is spouting now

bren2001

km79 wrote: »

Colm O Rourke again talking absolute sense in the iIndependent . A sure sign that Principals are under pressure too!
To summarise McHughs original plan was unworkable and was in response to media and twitter pressure
That it is still is and that schools need clarity NOW

Interesting ......

I just don't understand the clamour for stuff now. McHugh is caught between a rock and a hard place.

He's announced the start date for the LC as July 29th. It's 3 months away. On one hand people are saying don't publish anything if a detailed plan is not in place. On the other hand, people are demanding detailed be published now. You cannot have it both ways, you cannot develop a detailed plan in a short period of time.

It's 3 months away, how the LC is actually going to work is utterly irrelevant for the majority at this stage. Schools are not wrapping up for another little bit. Teaching commitments don't need to be altered for another month. Nobody needs details immediately, there is still plenty of time to see how the situation develops instead of outlining plans only for them to change.

In relation to the JC, who cares? It's in September. Tackle the next problem and worry about the implementation of the other once the LC is boxed off (the plan, not the actual LC itself). Again, doesn't affect teachers for months.

Has McHugh got this 100% right? No, but he's done a good enough job considering the circumstances in my opinion.

rainbowtrout

ethical wrote: »

.....and Ciara Kelly wondering could the class of 2020 boycott the LC!

She is a pure dose.

km79

bren2001 wrote: »

I just don't understand the clamour for stuff now. McHugh is caught between a rock and a hard place.

He's announced the start date for the LC as July 29th. It's 3 months away. On one hand people are saying don't publish anything if a detailed plan is not in place. On the other hand, people are demanding detailed be published now. You cannot have it both ways, you cannot develop a detailed plan in a short period of time.

It's 3 months away, how the LC is actually going to work is utterly irrelevant for the majority at this stage. Schools are not wrapping up for another little bit. Teaching commitments don't need to be altered for another month. Nobody needs details immediately, there is still plenty of time to see how the situation develops instead of outlining plans only for them to change.

In relation to the JC, who cares? It's in September. Tackle the next problem and worry about the implementation of the other once the LC is boxed off (the plan, not the actual LC itself). Again, doesn't affect teachers for months.

Has McHugh got this 100% right? No, but he's done a good enough job considering the circumstances in my opinion.

Can I ask something .
Are you a secondary teacher ?

I suspect you may not be based on what you have said as you seek to be unaware of the issues it’s creating day in /day out

In relation to the JC . I care
Why ? Because I had an 8 week revision plan done prior to easter for them
I left this in place until we returned after Easter
I left it in place until midweek
I have now changed it
But I may have to change it again depending on where Minister McHugh makes up his mind and communicates with schools properly . One week gone and all we have gotten is a Friday evening message saying they are “working on it” . 5 school weeks left . Take your time ........
That’s one example of how it is affecting students and teachers

L certs
Same thing. I had a revision plan done .
There are two particularly important sections that have to be revised .
They are better to be revised in class time but I can’t take the chance that we will have any class time despite our principal saying he thinks we will be in before End of May.
If we do end up being back I will have a choice
Cover topics which could have been covered online easier
Or
Go back those two topics which will mean other topics will not get revised

So how could he have helped more you might say ?
By giving us a clear idea of how he thinks the return in July is going to work . Same for exams. Because as it stands there is still a lot doubt about either as there are so many issues that many of us can’t see it will work .
And cancelling practicals So that all subjects with a practical elements are treated the same reducing student inequality . This would remove some of the issues in July and lessen stress
It is 100% going to happen so just do it !

Hope that makes sense as it’s a bit of a ramble . I am not getting at you I am genuinely just wondering if you are teaching in a secondary school as you don’t seem to share the same frustrations as lot of us

rainbowtrout

km79 wrote: »

Can I ask something .
Are you a secondary teacher ?

I suspect you may not be based on what you have said as you seek to be unaware of the issues it’s creating day in /day out


L certs
Same thing. I had a revision plan done .
There are two particularly important sections that have to be revised .
They are better to be revised in class time but I can’t take the chance that we will have any class time despite our principal saying he thinks we will be in before End of May.
If we do end up being back I will have a choice
Cover topics which could have been covered online easier
Or
Go back those two topics which will mean other topics will not get revised

I can't say I agree with you. Whether you like it or not you probably won't be back in your classroom before the end of this school year. We are already being geared up by the government not to expect any radical unwinding of restrictions on the 5th. In a normal year you wouldn't see your classes after you finish in May to do any revision, so realistically you should be planning to get your revision done by the normal end of the school year.

I won't be treating July as an extra two weeks teaching. I will be treating it as time to answer questions and go over niggly problems students have and see how it evolves. When the time comes I will ask them in advance if there is anything in particular they would like to focus on/require help with, but I am planning revision as I normally would, to finish with the end of the school year. It is the only certainty there is at the moment.

The media have a huge amount to answer for in the last couple of weeks baying for information on a situation that continues to evolve on a daily basis. Knowing the finer detail of what is going to happen after July 29th is largely irrelevant even with regard project work. I do think the project element of all remaining subjects should be scrapped in the interests of fairness but there is also very little that any teacher with a practical element can do at the moment, so the focus should lie on the written, regardless of whether the practical goes ahead or not. As the construction teacher in my school said to me the other day 'Can't post planks of wood and saws on Microsoft Teams'.

Focus on what you can do at the moment and forget about the stuff that's out of your control.