Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

political analyst

deiseindublin wrote: »

As ever, LCAs are being treated like second class citizens. It's awful that they could be expected to do about 8 different orals, practicals and tasks in 2 weeks, simply not possible.

What's the point in sitting the LCA when you can't go directly to third level afterwards?

Polka_Dot

political analyst wrote: »

What's the point in sitting the LCA when you can't go directly to third level afterwards?

Not everyone wants to go to third level.

deiseindublin

political analyst wrote: »

What's the point in sitting the LCA when you can't go directly to third level afterwards?

Some of them figure out what apprenticeship they would like to get in to, more of them get jobs in food services after HCT etc.

Millem

political analyst wrote: »

What's the point in sitting the LCA when you can't go directly to third level afterwards?

Some our our students go and do a plc then gain entry into university from there.

Bobtheman

Random sample wrote: »

Do you reckon principals are rolling their eyes along with us, or are they delighted to see these innovative creatures sharing their knowledge with us?

I do have to laugh when I see management cc’d in these emails. So transparent!!

The Problem is that a lot of these posts are pure and utter bull****. Write a fictional report. Set up yoga. Set up a fxxx twitter account. Very little is about academic standards or getting the kids to do homework.
Its worse in Deis schools-a whole team has risen up and trying to herd kids into schools-many of which are highly disruptive and make life miserable for staff and kids.
Kids with behaviour issues deserve schooling but special schools where they can get the attention and psychological support they need.
One of the few benefits of this lockdown is the ability to call a parent and speak to a child who is usually overlooked because johnny brat is causing chaos. I usually don't have time to talk to those kids

Inspector Coptoor

political analyst wrote: »

19-year-old student Jennifer Flynn of the Sacred Heart school, Clonakilty, Co. Cork, wrote in a letter in today's Indo that the government's response to the predicted-grade proposal is unreasonable and that there is a precedent for predicted grades because the State Exam Commission (SEC) last year defended its prtactice of awarding hundreds of estimated grades to students.

She wrote that the government has chosen to senselessly uphold tradition rather than sensible reasoning.

What is the reason for the government's insistence on the LC exams taking place as they usually do? It is possible that the ASTI would, on the basis of sui generis, agree to suspend its stance on the assessment of students by their teachers this year. It wouldn't necessarily set a precedent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sui_generis

A few hundred cases in a year due to bereavement or injury is very different to doing predicted grades for 61,000 students in all 7 subjects.

We don’t have the experience of doing this large scale for 427,000 or so grades.

I’ve been teaching 14 years and gave the SEC a predicted grade once

rainbowtrout

political analyst wrote: »

What is the reason for the government's insistence on the LC exams taking place as they usually do?

What is the reason for the Indo publishing the whinings of LC students every single day who are looking for predicted grades. They've been told it's not going to happen, so stop going on about it.

I don't think most people go into hospitals and claim to know how to best run them because they are patients.

For every student that's getting their letter published in the Indo this month, there are plenty of other students just getting their heads down and getting on with it.

All the ones writing letters and spending their time being outraged aren't getting a whole lot of work done.

I saw the article this morning, whiny quotes on 'we shouldn't be studying now', well actually if we weren't in lockdown, that's exactly what you would be doing in school.

happywithlife

political analyst wrote: »

What's the point in sitting the LCA when you can't go directly to third level afterwards?

Because education goes far beyond the traditional leaving cert. For many LCA students it IS a pathway into further education - just not your traditional university. For those that don't progress it IS validation of their work and sticking it out when their only other option was perdhaps to leave school as an early school leaver.
My husband did LCA many moons ago and is proudly able to tell our kids he did do A leaving cert and finish school. I don't think he'd have the same sense of accomplishment had he left after the junior cert so for him and many more it is a very important exam

randylonghorn

political analyst wrote: »

... and that there is a precedent for predicted grades because the State Exam Commission (SEC) last year defended its prtactice of awarding hundreds of estimated grades to students.

What Coptoor said.

political analyst wrote: »

What is the reason for the government's insistence on the LC exams taking place as they usually do?

This, to my mind at least.

deiseindublin

In a lot of ways LCA is a step up on regular LC, they need 90% attendance, unheard of with a lot of our LCs having to only miss 1 day every 2 weeks, also, have to keep foot on pedal with tasks and key assignments all year long. It's not possible for them to put their foot to the floor for 4 weeks before the exams and pull through.

I think it builds good life skills in encouraging kids to come in and hand in work. If they bring the same work ethic to their job it's a result in my eyes.

Lots of us that teach LCAs can tell of a marked improvement in attendance levels between 3rd or 4th year and LCA Yr 1. Ok, there are a few messers there that make life difficult sometimes, but they do come in and are bound to be learning something, and learning good habits.

Bobtheman

Mixed signals from leaks today. Seems some sort of JC assessment to take place in June. Mention of some leaving cert classes. Irish times
I'd be inclined to wait for Joe McHugh to speak .
Secondly you can bet that assessment guidelines will be loose for JC.
I still see plan for LC holding. I'm not going back twice to schools for LC students and I doubt that is the proposal.
It's a newspaper leak and thus be cautious.

km79

Bobtheman wrote: »

Mixed signals from leaks today. Seems some sort of JC assessment to take place in June. Mention of some leaving cert classes. Irish times
I'd be inclined to wait for Joe McHugh to speak .
Secondly you can bet that assessment guidelines will be loose for JC.
I still see plan for LC holding. I'm not going back twice to schools for LC students and I doubt that is the proposal.
It's a newspaper leak and thus be cautious.

Both papers say school based JC assessments in may not june
Don’t be giving people heart attacks
Last paragraph in Indo
It says that the school based assessments will replace the state certified exams on the students JCPA...........need to be careful on the exact wording and mechanisms of what we agree to

Millem

My school are doing assessments in May not September for JC students

km79

Indo says the same and expects it to be announced after meeting today
So that’s the first bit that needed to go gone to make running the LC anyway viable
Next up should be the practicals . And the sooner the better .

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

Indo says the same and expects it to be an in red after meeting today
So that’s the first bit that needed to go gone to make running the LC anyway viable
Next up should be the practicals . And the sooner the better .

The assessments will be remote. It still doesn't mean anything for the LC viability.

km79

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The assessments will be remote. It still doesn't mean anything for the LC viability.

Oh i know that and I still don’t think they will happen the way the NPHET are going
What I meant was this gives it a chance by freeing up septmeber from JC exams
And awarding practicals takes pressure off and free up the two weeks in July
It’s makes a silly proposal a little more workable if the exams can be run at all

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

Oh i know that and I still don’t think they will happen the way the NPHET are going
What I meant was this gives it a chance by freeing up septmeber from JC exams
And awarding practicals takes pressure off and free up the two weeks in July
It’s makes a silly proposal a little more workable if the exams can be run at all

Marking the LC papers is the biggest issue.

Bobtheman

km79 wrote: »

Both papers say school based JC assessments in may not june
Don’t be giving people heart attacks
Last paragraph in Indo
It says that the school based assessments will replace the state certified exams on the students JCPA...........need to be careful on the exact wording and mechanisms of what we agree to

My apologies on May. It is June .How exactly will this work-online?? So effectively teachers would be expected to work June. Correct their own pupils?
My Gut and so far it proved right on the LC delay-says any proposals will be very very loose-ie teachers or subject departments figure out an assessment and give a grade. Having a set exam would even be out as all it takes is one teacher to leak it. loose very loose

Millem

Bobtheman wrote: »

My apologies on May. It is June .How exactly will this work-online?? So effectively teachers would be expected to work June. Correct their own pupils?
My Gut and so far it proved right on the LC delay-says any proposals will be very very loose-ie teachers or subject departments figure out an assessment and give a grade. Having a set exam would even be out as all it takes is one teacher to leak it. loose very loose

We are correcting the last week in May.

Rosita

political analyst wrote: »

What is the reason for the government's insistence on the LC exams taking place as they usually do?

The answer is in the question. The reason for the government's insistence on the LC exams taking place is because they usually do.

It has been the expectation of all students since they started school. It's what happens every year. It is the agreed terminal assessment at the end of Post-Primary school and will beat any cobbled together alternative for credibility. Whatever misgivings we might have regarding the method of keeping the show on the road the government does not have to justify the reasons for trying to do so.

km79

Millem wrote: »

We are correcting the last week in May.

As are we

km79

Bobtheman wrote: »

My apologies on May. It is June .How exactly will this work-online?? So effectively teachers would be expected to work June. Correct their own pupils?
My Gut and so far it proved right on the LC delay-says any proposals will be very very loose-ie teachers or subject departments figure out an assessment and give a grade. Having a set exam would even be out as all it takes is one teacher to leak it. loose very loose

I’ve lost you Bob

Schools are not actually given students the JC papers
They are giving a school based grade - could be an exam , could be continuous assessment and in most schools a combination of both

A lot of schools Will run exams the second last week of term to allow for corrections in final school week

This is in the words of principal to give everyone a two week break in June ............

Bobtheman

km79 wrote: »

I’ve lost you Bob

Schools are not actually given students the JC papers
They are giving a school based grade - could be an exam , could be continuous assessment and in most schools a combination of both

A lot of schools Will run exams the second last week of term to allow for corrections in final school week

This is in the words of principal to give everyone a two week break in June ............

We are not disagreeing-it will be left to schools to sort out. Loose. Not even standard papers across all classes will be insisted upon. Just a basic assessment. The Ind is as normal hyping it

jimmytwotimes 2013

km79 wrote: »

I’ve lost you Bob

Schools are not actually given students the JC papers
They are giving a school based grade - could be an exam , could be continuous assessment and in most schools a combination of both

A lot of schools Will run exams the second last week of term to allow for corrections in final school week

This is in the words of principal to give everyone a two week break in June ............

We've to run exams in the last week and correct in 2nd half of June

deiseindublin

But surely 'running' the exams just means emailing or posting them to Edmodo orGC, and should you choose you could correct during the last week, no?

Also, have the option of correcting immediately after the Friday finish and being done fairly quickly?

I think it's being a bit moaney to say you have to correct in the second half of June. Correct them whenever you want, as we always do, and submit results as early as you wish.

rainbowtrout

deiseindublin wrote: »

But surely 'running' the exams just means emailing or posting them to Edmodo orGC, and should you choose you could correct during the last week, no?

Also, have the option of correcting immediately after the Friday finish and being done fairly quickly?

I think it's being a bit moaney to say you have to correct in the second half of June. Correct them whenever you want, as we always do, and submit results as early as you wish.

I think the point is to have two weeks off as we are expected to be available to LCs from mid June onwards in accordance with government plans. It would be nice to have a break and do no work for two weeks.

deiseindublin

Yes, but if I 'run' a few exams on Monday I can be correcting Monday evening or Tues morning. There will potentially be very little to correct by Friday.

Also, we're not teaching from mid June onward. We are supposed to be available to clarify any questions that students may have. So, 1/6th of current student cohort may still be in contact but we won't be teaching then. I don't see it as that much of a load.

Having said that, I teach a lot of FE and that has been relentless since lockdown, so I'm probably immune to a bit of inconvenience at this stage.

km79

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

We've to run exams in the last week and correct in 2nd half of June

And why are ye agreeing to that ?

jimmytwotimes 2013

deiseindublin wrote: »

I think it's being a bit moaney to say you have to correct in the second half of June. Correct them whenever you want, as we always do, and submit results as early as you wish.

Depends on timetable you've been given locally as to when you can actually give exams and when the facility to input results is made available to staff

ricero

All it took was one school in Galway going rogue and udnermining the department to destroy the plans for the Junior Cert.

A bloody farce from the start. And now these May assesments give schools and teachers more headaches. Some joke.