Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

Mardy Bum

rainbowtrout wrote: »

It was far easier for other countries to cancel their exams quickly as they have various forms of continuous assessment/coursework in place. We don't have anything like that to fall back on. It is the one major flaw of the Leaving Cert, in that it is all or nothing, so in this once in a lifetime event it is a huge problem.

The biggest issue with the Irish education system is how underfunded it is. We are the third worst in the OECD in terms of the proportion spent on education in our budget. This causes serious infrastructural issues.

Why has that not been in the papers for the last ten years as budgets were cut and cut and cut?

100s of articles about PG though.

Treppen

ricflair7 wrote: »

I completely agree with you the media stories have been out of control, but has there really been clarity? I also never asked to see the plans but I am beginning to wonder do they even exist! The start I am referring to is the day the schools were asked to shut, there is people in jobs that have a responsibly to ensure these exams can be run safely and if not alternatives should be used. If you watch the health briefings you will see Tony Holohan has been asked multiple times since the start about state exams or schools and said that their advice was always available but they don’t make decisions. Put yourselves in their shoes, you can’t be expected to study towards an exam that may or not be held. That is unfair, end of.


Rainbowtrout- you say if McHugh came out and said “come hell or high water we are running the LC” and had to revert we would be complaining. Have you forgotten Varadkar “by hook or by crook” statement? That seems along those lines. As I’ve said before I understand when the virus was in early stages it was very hard to predict, but other countries (Uk,France) moved quickly to cancel their traditional exams


These are unprecedented times for everyone and the argument from the start has been “there’s people dying it’s only a leaving cert” and granted that was a valid argument. But now the time has come to make a call, with a clear plan as to how exams can be held from the point a student leaves a home to the point the student gets home.

Have you read Phase 4 of the Roadmap?

Phase 4 (20 July)

• Opening of crèches, childminders and pre-schools for children of all other workers on a gradually increasing basis
• Return to work for those who cannot work from home
• Gradual easing of restrictions for higher risk services (e.g. Hairdressers)
• Opening of museums, galleries, places of worship

How does anybody leave the house, then get home?

I think people are tying themselves in knots unnecessarily.

Why aren't the Irish Times and Indo pleading for plans so that people can have 'certainty' as to how they are going to go to work, have kids in a creche, have people in museums, galleries, places of worship etc.

Just like general elections, there should be an embargo on media reporting 2 months prior to the Leaving Cert. They're a bunch of vultures.

km79

Morning papers are going to tell a tale ......

ricflair7

Treppen wrote: »

Have you read Phase 4 of the Roadmap?

Phase 4 (20 July)

• Opening of crèches, childminders and pre-schools for children of all other workers on a gradually increasing basis
• Return to work for those who cannot work from home
• Gradual easing of restrictions for higher risk services (e.g. Hairdressers)
• Opening of museums, galleries, places of worship

How does anybody leave the house, then get home?

I think people are tying themselves in knots unnecessarily.

Why aren't the Irish Times and Indo pleading for plans so that people can have 'certainty' as to how they are going to go to work, have kids in a creche, have people in museums, galleries, places of worship etc.

Just like general elections, there should be an embargo on media reporting 2 months prior to the Leaving Cert. They're a bunch of vultures.

Well for starters it is much easier for workplaces to practice social distancing. Museums can let limited people in and run limited opening hours, obviously no large masses can take place but that is all just my opinion. You just cannot compare them to a leaving cert, people have a choice to visit these places. Leaving cert students do not have a choice if the exams are to be held. Just to clarify I am not against the exams taking place, I would just like a clear plan as to how they are to take place.

The papers have been a joke but unfortunately that is business and I know for a fact there is students spending their days speculating on every article that is published. The general jist of everything I've seen online is we should have an answer by Friday or am I being too ambitious?

km79

km79 wrote: »

Morning papers are going to tell a tale ......

http://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1258262753954971648

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0507/1136931-teacher-unions-meeting/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-voice-grave-concerns-about-health-implications-if-leaving-cert-goes-ahead-1.4246311?mode=amp

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/cancellation-of-leaving-cert-is-now-on-the-cards-39187261.html

No comment

Random sample

Soundbites from byrne very annoying on the radio this morning. He is predicting that the LC won’t happen. Maybe he could predict all the grades for candidates who don’t have a teacher, for various reasons, he seems to be very good at predictions, unlike the rest of us.

km79

If it’s not safe to run the LC in August I think we are facing into a school year of predominantly remote teaching
I can hear the calls of next years LCerts for cancellation of exams and predictive grades instead already !

Random sample

km79 wrote: »

If it’s not safe to run the LC in August I think we are facing into a school year of predominantly remote teaching
I can hear the calls of next years LCerts for cancellation of exams and predictive grades instead already !

Indeed. I wonder if they all saw the grade that was to be given to them would they be so sure predictive grades were the way forward?

What’s to stop the LCs in any given year from deciding they would rather not do the exams?

I am really not happy with the way this is playing out.

Exams in August with 1 year group can’t be done, but a return to school with 6 year groups can be done one month later? Nonsense.

Treppen

When the question on whether or not it was all teachers' fault all along, and they would have gotten away with a leaving cert if it wasn't for those pesky teachers, was put to Mr. km79... He declined to comment. Emma O Kelly... RTE news.

mirrorwall14

Announcement Friday you think? Or will they run into next week? Decision seems made now tbh. And I couldn’t see any other reason for the unions needing emergency meetings to discuss last night. The devil is just in the detail now


No way can we stand against cancellation either in my opinion. I wouldn’t be willing to anyways. I guess at least we get July back. Which considering we managed to transfer rather than cancel our Kerry trip I’m totally fine with!

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

If it’s not safe to run the LC in August I think we are facing into a school year of predominantly remote teaching
I can hear the calls of next years LCerts for cancellation of exams and predictive grades instead already !

To be honest I do think there will need to be an evaluation of the normal exam papers for the current fifth years. They’ve missed a lot of class contact time. I know I’m now behind on my course despite killing myself teaching online. And some students haven’t engaged so have missed what I have managed to get done

km79

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Announcement Friday you think? Or will they run into next week? Decision seems made now tbh. And I couldn’t see any other reason for the unions needing emergency meetings to discuss last night. The devil is just in the detail now


No way can we stand against cancellation either in my opinion. I wouldn’t be willing to anyways. I guess at least we get July back. Which considering we managed to transfer rather than cancel our Kerry trip I’m totally fine with!

I have a short revision exam set for my leaving certs this morning
Looks like I won’t have many to correct

km79

Treppen wrote: »

When the question on whether or not it was all teachers' fault all along, and they would have gotten away with a leaving cert if it wasn't for those pesky teachers, was put to Mr. km79... He declined to comment. Emma O Kelly... RTE news.

She can catch me on Insta

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

I have a short revision exam set for my leaving certs this morning
Looks like I won’t have many to correct

I can stop frantically creating resources. I did actually manage to finish the course remotely in the end. Found some fabulous platforms and have some really nice resources for the fifth years now too. Loving Edpuzzle. And finally put time into quizlets for them too

km79

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I can stop frantically creating resources. I did actually manage to finish the course remotely in the end. Found some fabulous platforms and have some really nice resources for the fifth years now too. Loving Edpuzzle. And finally put time into quizlets for them too

I was lucky (and now it seems unlucky ) in that I had the course finished the week we were closed
It’s been TORTURE trying to do revision in it every day
I think it’s fair to say my motivation levels have dropped this morning in that regard so can only imagine how the students are feeling

mirrorwall14

km79 wrote: »

I was lucky (and now it seems unlucky ) in that I had the course finished the week we were closed
It’s been TORTURE trying to do revision in it every day
I think it’s fair to say my motivation levels have dropped this morning in that regard so can only imagine how the students are feeling

Don’t know about anyone else but engagement has been falling like a stone since Easter. Exception being my first year maths. All other year groups are disappearing

Treppen

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

To be honest I do think there will need to be an evaluation of the normal exam papers for the current fifth years. They’ve missed a lot of class contact time. I know I’m now behind on my course despite killing myself teaching online. And some students haven’t engaged so have missed what I have managed to get done

Ya shur look was it ever going to be any other way.
Teacher : Teaches topic for 5 hours.
Student: Ya could you just go back over that bit at the start again.

Whatever you've done with 1st, 2nd, 5th since March 13th... It'll be done again in 2020-2021

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

She can catch me on Insta

Is there some course I can do in this 'insta' thing the young people are talking about?

Comer1

I'm a teacher of a subject that has been doing all project work from September to end of January with only a few weeks teaching before the mocks in the whole year. My current sixth years only has one student who did this subject for JC. So with very little hard evidence to backup any grades I predict, I'm not very happy this morning. I always follow this method in sixth year as my job was to teach, it's the DES's job to assess.

As a parent of a very capable, hardworking sixth year, I'm now worried about how this will pan out for her. This leaves so much more up to chance now. The LC might be brutal, but at least it's the same level of brutality for all.

Comer1

Treppen wrote: »

Whatever you've done with 1st, 2nd, 5th since March 13th... It'll be done again in 2020-2021

Absolutely not in my class! That would be such a disservice to the ones who engaged. My video tutorials will still be available and they can look those up, otherwise they can fook off!

eastie17

Comer1 wrote: »

I'm a teacher of a subject that has been doing all project work from September to end of January with only a few weeks teaching before the mocks in the whole year. My current sixth years only has one student who did this subject for JC. So with very little hard evidence to backup any grades I predict, I'm not very happy this morning. I always follow this method in sixth year as my job was to teach, it's the DES's job to assess.

As a parent of a very capable, hardworking sixth year, I'm now worried about how this will pan out for her. This leaves so much more up to chance now. The LC might be brutal, but at least it's the same level of brutality for all.

Spot on, whatever stress they think they are creating by ****ing up the organisation of this, they are going to be practically creating a lifetime of stress for a lot of the students who take this really seriously and have been working hard at it by not running the exams.
Because I guarantee you, if their "solution" is some sort of predictive grade nonsense it will be the students in the upper third of work rate and capabilities who will suffer as part of that. The "solution" will be some bland badly thought through sort of "peanut butter spread" that keeps most of them sorta middle of the road.
Politicians fail us again

Rosita

ricflair7 wrote: »

The papers have been a joke but unfortunately that is business and I know for a fact there is students spending their days speculating on every article that is published.

The papers have just reflected the unease from the comments of Varadker on predictive grading on the same day he announced that schools would remain closed until September but didn't see fit to confirm that the LC was going ahead as planned.

The previous weekend Simon Harris had said that it was hoped to have the LC students back in May a couple of weeks after it was announced they'd be back in July. I think that would have been far more disconcerting for any students as it implied that the government's plans were built on shifting sands.

We're not North Korea. Let the media do their job and lay the blame where appropriate on this occasion.

Mrsmum

Comer1 wrote: »

Absolutely not in my class! That would be such a disservice to the ones who engaged. My video tutorials will still be available and they can look those up, otherwise they can fook off!

Sounds like a very jaded attitude. The thing is you have absolutely no clue why any pupil is not engaging since you have no clue what their home lives are like. That is their school room now. For lots of children it is a very unsuitable learning environment. Or are you saying there is absolutely no value to being in an actual classroom with a teacher if a video is the very same.

Shn99

Haven’t rec’d work from teachers the past 2 days, I dont blame them because participation in classes has been at an all time low since Leo came out on the late late. Just hope the DES make a decision soon.

.

Comer1

Mrsmum wrote: »

Sounds like a very jaded attitude. The thing is you have absolutely no clue why any pupil is not engaging since you have no clue what their home lives are like. That is their school room now. For lots of children it is a very unsuitable learning environment. Or are you saying there is absolutely no value to being in an actual classroom with a teacher if a video is the very same.

I do know why, I have a very small class of fifth years and only five have not engaged with the work. I have been in contact them directly and they just didn't bother.

Young people need to learn that there are consequences to the decisions they make (unless they are doing LC 2020 of course)

Treppen

Comer1 wrote: »

Absolutely not in my class! That would be such a disservice to the ones who engaged. My video tutorials will still be available and they can look those up, otherwise they can fook off!

I think you'll find that you can't put students in a detrimental position with regard to those who didn't/couldn't engage for whatever reason.

Mrsmum

Comer1 wrote: »

I do know why, I have a very small class of fifth years and only five have not engaged with the work. I have been in contact them directly and they just didn't bother.

Young people need to learn that there are consequences to the decisions they make (unless they are doing LC 2020 of course)

Apart from anything else if the level of understanding by the pupil is so poor as to make building on that understanding impossible, of course there will have to be revision or the rest of your ongoing teaching will be just noise.
I have a 5th year child who is a straight A student as the Americans would say and is not doing well in his home learning of maths at all. In a recent survey from his school, maths was listed as problematic. I can assure you I fully expect his teacher to go back if they ever get back to school. Not going back over won't help going forward.

rainbowtrout

Rosita wrote: »

The papers have just reflected the unease from the comments of Varadker on predictive grading on the same day he announced that schools would remain closed until September but didn't see fit to confirm that the LC was going ahead as planned.

The previous weekend Simon Harris had said that it was hoped to have the LC students back in May a couple of weeks after it was announced they'd be back in July. I think that would have been far more disconcerting for any students as it implied that the government's plans were built on shifting sands.

We're not North Korea. Let the media do their job and lay the blame where appropriate on this occasion.

It'll still be our fault in the end.

doc_17

Treppen wrote: »

I think you'll find that you can't put students in a detrimental position with regard to those who didn't/couldn't engage for whatever reason.

I think you’ll also find that time will limited next year. In some subjects there is barely time to cover the course. So, the choice....finish the course first and then if time allows go over the stuff done in March/April/May. Or do that stuff again for those that didn’t engage resulting in those that did it losing out with other areas of revision.

As a previous poster says, the videos and content will still be there so it’ll be easier for the teachers to tell them to revise that in their own time.

If time allows absolute go over it and teach it from scratch. But I couldn’t lose 3 months of HL Maths without any consequences. Physics, maybe.

rainbowtrout

Mrsmum wrote: »

Sounds like a very jaded attitude. The thing is you have absolutely no clue why any pupil is not engaging since you have no clue what their home lives are like. That is their school room now. For lots of children it is a very unsuitable learning environment. Or are you saying there is absolutely no value to being in an actual classroom with a teacher if a video is the very same.

I would say that most teachers can tell you exactly which students have problems engaging because of their home lives/lack of internet access, laptop etc and which ones can't be bothered.

I could have predicted which ones in my fifth year class wouldn't engage when we shut down, the same ones who don't engage in the classroom. Got an email from school from the mother of one of these students yesterday saying that they have crap internet and wondering if we could send the work to her son by email. So seemingly she has waited until the first week of May to tell us this, seven weeks later. Yet her daughter is able to login and do her work on the same platform every day. I've seen the same lad spinning around town on a tractor. That's a mother covering for her son who hasn't done a tap and is now realising that he might have to do an end of year assessment and is trying to backpedal.

Our experience is that the ones who want to engage but can't because of home situations were pro-active and told us that, and the school were able to provide them with chromebooks or we emailed work where they couldn't access Teams. The ones who chose not to engage are a completely different story.