Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

bren2001

joe40 wrote: »

If exams can't be run August how are schools expected to be back in September.

It's very hard to see schools back in September. I think it'll be more remote delivery. I would hope the DEC issue guidelines on how this is to be achieved and don't push those decisions locally. The Colleges are preparing for this, I see no reasons schools shouldn't be either.

Mardy Bum

bren2001 wrote: »

It's very hard to see schools back in September. I think it'll be more remote delivery. I would hope the DEC issue guidelines on how this is to be achieved and don't push those decisions locally. The Colleges are preparing for this, I see no reasons schools shouldn't be either.

I'm struggling to understand this. Large gatherings are expected to be back by mid August. Schools are already back in countries that have been hit worse than us. The roadmap was drawn up by experts. Cases are falling. Eventually we will have to live with it, I can't imagine we will stop the economy until Christmas.

km79

joe40 wrote: »

If exams can't be run August how are schools expected to be back in September.

“Blended learning “ for first term at least is my guess
Will be difficult for teachers like myself with a long commute
Not sure how it will work

bren2001

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand this. Large gatherings are expected to be back by mid August. Schools are already back in countries that have been hit worse than us. The roadmap was drawn up by experts. Cases are falling. Eventually we will have to live with it, I can't imagine we will stop the economy until Christmas.

Cases are falling due to the lockdown, there will be a second peak at some stage when restrictions are lifted. Cases will naturally being to rise again.

Schools are back in countries and are adhering to social distancing, this may not be possible in many cases. There is also the question of vulnerable students who may be required to cocoon for a period into the school year. Children living with vulnerable adults cannot be expected to go to school and continue to live with people advised to cocoon. They must be catered for.

The roadmap doesn't say schools will reopen and return to normal. How schools are to be reopened hasn't been specified and won't be for quite some time. Universities are actively planning for remote teaching at the start of next year. I accept it's easier for Universities than schools to implement this but I'd be very surprised if the DEC are not developing guidelines if the virus doesn't go away. Schools staying closed doesn't mean other areas cannot open up. The economy won't be sleeping until Christmas, of course.

If the LC cannot go ahead in August, it's very hard to see schools opening in September.

joe40

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand this. Large gatherings are expected to be back by mid August. Schools are already back in countries that have been hit worse than us. The roadmap was drawn up by experts. Cases are falling. Eventually we will have to live with it, I can't imagine we will stop the economy until Christmas.

Yeah I'm kinda going along with that. If we can't be back to a semblance of normality by September nothing is going to change over the medium term, until vaccine or reliable and effective treatments are found.
I think what will happen is we will work alongside the virus and as a society accept the cost if health system can cope.
I don't mean that in a heartless way, but I think it will become necessary.

Treppen

Rosita wrote: »

The difference is though that workplaces, creches, and churches are run by private organisations and it will ultimately be up to those organisations to provide suitable environments for people to use them safely - adapt or die I suppose. If they don't people can go elsewhere. The post-primary education system is run by government so they have direct responsibility for a monopoly public service. People do not have a choice but to use it and that naturally will get people looking for specifics especially when it's at such a critical juncture for them. Hysteria maybe but understandable I think.

When it comes to childcare, churches , work, people don't "go elsewhere".
BTW the post-primary system is not run by the government. It's typically run by patronage from voluntary bodies/boards of management.
Hysteria is never understandable.

mirrorwall14

My reading of it is that the DES were planning to just leave it up to local arrangements for schools as usual and the Unions said hell no, organise it properly or not at all. Which tbh is totally fair, when you have some principals threatening to cut pay of staff etc. But theDES are going to go with not at all and blaming us

Rosita

Treppen wrote: »

When it comes to childcare, churches , work, people don't "go elsewhere".
BTW the post-primary system is not run by the government. It's typically run by patronage from voluntary bodies/boards of management.
Hysteria is never understandable.

Bingo! I was always wondering what that crowd did! Thought it was only our school and not the whole system they ran though. It was obvious that Joe McHugh guy didn't have much say in anything anyway the way things are going lately.

Also fascinating to know that people don't move workplace, creche or church no matter what the conditions are. So much for the free market.

Rosita

joe40 wrote: »

If exams can't be run August how are schools expected to be back in September.

Just hearing Matt Cooper now. I think this penny is just about to drop in the media.

bren2001

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

My reading of it is that the DES were planning to just leave it up to local arrangements for schools as usual and the Unions said hell no, organise it properly or not at all. Which tbh is totally fair, when you have some principals threatening to cut pay of staff etc. But theDES are going to go with not at all and blaming us

I assume teachers would prefer that the DES to issue guidelines?

The word from the higher ups in Universities is that we need a unified well-thought out approach across all disciplines. I would assume the schools would take the same approach.

Rosita

bren2001 wrote: »

I assume teachers would prefer that the DES to issue guidelines?

The word from the higher ups in Universities is that we need a unified well-thought out approach across all disciplines. I would assume the schools would take the same approach.

Naturally the DES will give guidelines but I'd say no more than that. We might have to look at a situation not too far down the road where decisions are made on a geographical basis so a widespread policy (as distinct from guidelines) will be unlikely.

But the idea that schools would go back on a piecemeal basis has been floated for a while. Maybe now its time has come to go mainstream.

Shn99

Does anyone think that the plan will remain to have the exams on the 29th, but with a detailed Plan B outlined if they cant go ahead come June?

mirrorwall14

bren2001 wrote: »

I assume teachers would prefer that the DES to issue guidelines?

The word from the higher ups in Universities is that we need a unified well-thought out approach across all disciplines. I would assume the schools would take the same approach.

Yes. There needs to be a minimum standard approach and then schools can do more if they can facilitate it. But if it’s left completely piecemeal then you’ll get people like the principal holding staff meetings on site in the middle of a lockdown because he deemed it critical

History Queen

Shn99 wrote: »

Does anyone think that the plan will remain to have the exams on the 29th, but with a detailed Plan B outlined if they cant go ahead come June?

That's what I am hoping for certainly. Gives certainty and the closest thing to normality while reassuring students that if it can't happen they know what the alternative is.

ricflair7

History Queen wrote: »

That's what I am hoping for certainly. Gives certainty and the closest thing to normality while reassuring students that if it can't happen they know what the alternative is.

Do you honestly expect leaving cert students to continue studying until the first week in June for an exam that hasn't been confirmed? Its time for concrete plans at this stage as to how these exams can be held. The papers will have a field day if Joe McHugh announces the exams are still going ahead with no definitive plan as to how they can be held!

doc_17

I think we can take it as granted now that the LC won’t run. Did anyone hear Thomas Byrne on Drivetime? He said that all we the Dept were doing was waiting to announce it.

Some sort of ranking system will be used in combination with results the students received.

This way.....

https://t.co/0B8vsnQpVE

History Queen

ricflair7 wrote: »

Do you honestly expect leaving cert students to continue studying until the first week in June for an exam that hasn't been confirmed? Its time for concrete plans at this stage as to how these exams can be held. The papers will have a field day if Joe McHugh announces the exams are still going ahead with no definitive plan as to how they can be held!

But it was confirmed by the Minister for Education. His last statement was clear on it being 29th July. I appreciate it needs to be clarified again because of the irresponsible behaviour of both politicians and the media stoking fear. As of this moment in time the exams are still scheduled for 29th July.

And what's the worst that will happen if they study and it is called off (just in terms of the time spent studying/other issues aside)? Knowledge isn't a burden.

History Queen

doc_17 wrote: »

I think we can take it as granted now that the LC won’t run. Did anyone hear Thomas Byrne on Drivetime? He said that all we the Dept were doing was waiting to announce it.

Some sort of ranking system will be used in combination with results the students received.

This way.....

https://t.co/0B8vsnQpVE

Really disappointing if so, I'mstill of the belief that it should go ahead if can be organised safely as feel it is the better long term outcome. Anyway, in spite of my own reservations as to how this will work in reality hopefully the vast majority of students will be happy with this outcome.

Mardy Bum

The minute Plan B is announced the vast majority of students will down tools. A significant minority of students have already downed tools.

In their minds, Plan B is Plan A. The reason being is that they have no interest in doing the exams full stop.

Mass delusion.

CrabRevolution

Mardy Bum wrote: »

The minute Plan B is announced the vast majority of students will down tools. A significant minority of students have already downed tools.

In their minds, Plan B is Plan A. The reason being is that they have no interest in doing the exams full stop.

Mass delusion.

I'm not saying I was (or even am now) a fiend for proving myself and overcoming adversity etc. but the overwhelming support for just surrendering and doing nothing while demanding some magical solution from the DoE is a bit surprising.

I'm assuming:
A. No exams is all they need to hear to be convinced and
B. Many students (and parents) will assume their grades will be gently massaged upwards and it'll be seen as a "victimless crime" with no proof or accountability possible. If everyone does better though; nobody does better since they're all competing with each other for college places.

doc_17

Recommendation will be brought to cabinet in the morning that it should be called off.

That’s that.

So what’s next?

ricflair7

doc_17 wrote: »

Recommendation will be brought to cabinet in the morning that it should be called off.

That’s that.

So what’s next?

Where did you hear this?

doc_17

ricflair7 wrote: »

Where did you hear this?

I’m not gonna say, but it’s 100%.

scrubs33

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced-with-predicted-grades-1.4247877?mode=amp
Endgame? Hopefully the link works.

km79

Nice to be getting all our info from the media as usual

scrubs33

Sorry clicked send too quickly. Article in Times supporting point above about Cabinet being presented with plan B tomorrow

skippy1977

doc_17 wrote: »

I’m not gonna say, but it’s 100%.

Give us the initials...

km79

Sounds like subject departments will decide on the rankings
We all should have just switched off at Easter

doc_17

skippy1977 wrote: »

Give us the initials...

Can’t

km79

skippy1977 wrote: »

Give us the initials...

JMcH