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Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]
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Mocks and 5th year exams should not be used. It would be better to pull results out of a hat for everyone.
So so agree with this. The mocks were leaked in abundance this year and couple that with the sub standard marking of the mocks by external correctors. Would be ridiculous for someone to even suggest they be used.0 -
Solidarity PBP TD Mick Barry has announced on Facebook he will be holding a victory rally tomorrow to celebrate the cancellation of the LC, as a student, I am appalled by this behaviour. A complete insult to those (even if they were a minority or not) who wanted exams to proceed.0
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Nalani Hissing Appetizer wrote: »I would say teachers have no part in the decision making process from here on out.
The information required is stored in the database of each school for management to trawl through.
Hmmm
Let’s say mocks were in late Jan.
That means for senior cycle on school data base - there are probably 5 entries.
Christmas 5th year
Summer 5th year
Christmas 6th year
Mocks
Maybe a mid term
And bribing since Jan or Feb mid term.
All the while, courses are being finished and concepts are clicking and students are improving.
I’d be disgusted if I wasn’t consulted.0 -
This is going to be a nightmare for teachers. The responsibility of predicting a grade is terrible. Teachers will be open to accusations of vindictiveness and malice based on their predictions.
I would consider simply refusing to take part, can a teacher be legally compelled to assign a leaving cert grade.
That is a million miles from giving a prediction.0 -
CrabRevolution wrote: »I really have to wonder what you think the whole point of exams is? You seem to be under the impression that the results should bear no resemblance to how they actually perform, and everyone should be given high marks so that they feel good. What happens to college admissions when half the country gets 600 points?
Giving a student a mark they never earned is the opposite of letting them prove themselves. It's lying to them and rewarding them after they've proven they are incapable.
Well what is fair this year ?
What ever happened this year it should benefit the students not discriminate, they didn’t cause this.
There young and need to enjoy life and sure people will end up in courses they don’t deserve and will fall behind and drop out.
I still think in the majority of cases they’ll get the mark they deserve , teachers will not bow to pressure as it won’t come down to one person.
It’s about the students and sitting for next 3 months in isolation studying was not right . No break straight into college late , 5th years starting there important year late . If anything they should have announced a shortened of the leaving cert by answering 50% of the questions , back 3/4 weeks ago . The pressure would have been off them and opposition parties would have less ammunition.
After that it was wether it was safe to run with it or not !0 -
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This is going to be an absolute disaster. The only good thing is that it's going to be such a nightmare that the unions will never let us do it again.
RealJohn that is wishful thinking in its purest form. I shudder to think of the precedent this will set.Especially in the banana republic we live in!
The more you think about this the more astounding it really is! To make this big announcement on Good Friday and spoil everybody's Easter. All the talk about July tuition in school and teachers, being the jolly good sports we are, rolling in behind it. All the talk of August exams and adhering to strict new rules, all perfectly workable.Teachers with the heads down killing themselves.
And then bang!! Complete u turn, complete capitulation! Perfectly understandable if it was because of major health concerns. Or if the new daddy of the nation, Tony Holohan, advised against it. But nothing to do with that. This is all because the youngsters of this country threw a few well timed tantrums, aided and abetted by the hysteria loving media and Leo and his cronies buckle.
You really couldn't make it up and it and it's not an exaggeration to say that it's an embarrassing day for the country.
It's actually so bad that part of me is hoping that we're all over reacting prematurely. That we'll hear something more sensible tomorrow. But somehow I doubt it.0 -
The leaving cert could have been held. Most schools have the space to spread students out enough. Ones that don't could use primary schools etc.
The only reason it's cancelled is because 6th years kicked off about it.0 -
It is staggering the unions let it through.0
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No, there are those who got lazy, those who struggled and those whose internet was shoite.lulublue22 wrote: »Judging by some of the posts from teachers here that equates to a lazy git very reassuring for predictive grades if thats the prevailing attitude.
I'd bet on most teachers being pretty accurate on who was who.
This is the answer to uncertainty?
Far more uncertainty for LC students if this is the plan.
They have my genuine sympathies.
And so do you lot.0 -
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I'd argue that they did cause this with a loud campaign for the LC to be cancelled. Why should they benefit from it?Millionaire only not wrote: »Well what is fair this year ?
What ever happened this year it should benefit the students not discriminate, they didn’t cause this.
There young and need to enjoy life and sure people will end up in courses they don’t deserve and will fall behind and drop out.
I still think in the majority of cases they’ll get the mark they deserve , teachers will not bow to pressure as it won’t come down to one person.
It’s about the students and sitting for next 3 months in isolation studying was not right . No break straight into college late , 5th years starting there important year late . If anything they should have announced a shortened of the leaving cert by answering 50% of the questions , back 3/4 weeks ago . The pressure would have been off them and opposition parties would have less ammunition.
After that it was wether it was safe to run with it or not !
Also you seem to be under the impression that by simply handing out more points, course numbers will expand and more people get to do the course they want. In reality someone getting an inflated grade will be taking the spot of someone who could deserve a spot on merit.
Say a student is a 570 point student. Ignoring the HPAT, in a normal year they'd get Medicine in UCD. But this year we've handed out H1s by the new time because students "need to enjoy life", and the 570 point student loses their place in Medicine to students who in any other year would never have gotten in because they would have gotten an accurate grade that reflected their abilities.0 -
Join Date:Posts: 25725
Mary got her driving licence in the amnesty.
Johnny got his Leaving Cert in 2020.
If the will had been there (and the ..oops...money) they could have run the exams with 10 in a centre. No reason for predicted grades nonsense.0 -
Mary got her driving licence in the amnesty.
Johnny got his Leaving Cert in 2020.
If the will had been there (and the ..oops...money) they could have run the exams with 10 in a centre. No reason for predicted grades nonsense.
I am gutted for my kids who worked so hard since schools closed. They tried so hard with just phones and broadband issues. But they persevered And improved so much, as for those who didn’t bother........0 -
This is my first post on this thread
I have read most of the post and it seems that people are entrenched in a particular view that they think is correct...and I am not going to change that or try to change that
We need to step back and look at the bigger picture
1) The government kicked the can down the road to buy themselves time to see if the Covid situation was going to sort it self out. I think that this was correct
2) unfortunately it has seemed that this cannot and will not be possible, if we were to look into our crystal ball now we cannot predict what the situation will be in late July early Aug.
3) I see posts of people teacher slamming saying that it is the unions that’s are preventing the exams going ahead. I wonder do these people have a child in 6th year.
4) I think the decision to cancel the exams is correct because of all the what if questions..
...what it my Johnny is in an exam hall and someone starts coughing or showing symptoms...will he and all in the hall be quarantined
...my Johnny lives in rural Ireland and travels to school on the school bus scheme..how can he 2m isolate on a bus when we don’t have other means to transport him to school
...what if my Johnny is prevented from doing all his exams due to the exams in a certain centre been stopped on health reasons.
5) The real fear seems to be is that a teacher will not be honest in giving an honest predictive grade. School principals will have to step up to the mark here and question/ ask for proof of submitted grades. My fear is that grades would be overinflated by some teachers in wanting to make themselves look good. However a good principal would see a grade that seems not in line with other grades or with Christmas/ summer/ pre grades and ask for proof of submitted grades. If the minister said that this would occur then I would predict that each teacher should be able to estimate to within 5% the actual grade a student should get.
6) Each teacher should submit there grade to the principal/ dept of Ed. and when all grades are submitted an overall points is awarded to a student. The student will not be told what grade is given in any subject, this will/ should prevent them claiming bias against any teacher.
7) If a student gets say 400 points in this system then I would give a 5% leeway ( or 10%) ie 20 points in a ousts even they apply for, so if their 1st choice is 415 then I would deem them eligible for the course.
8) If after a year/ semester that it is seen that they are not capable for the course then they should be allowed free of charge to change to a course on their CAO that has a max points of 400.
9) These are extraordinary times and need thinking outside the box..
This is just my views..imagine and hope that a think tank of the best educational minds will be mindful of this and a lot more...it the LC is cancelled there is a reason for it..it’s easy to be a keyboard warrior stirring it with snide comments hoping to get a reaction but this is not helpful,to the thousands of leaving cert students who log into this in their spare time
Stay safe..things will improve..0 -
This is my first post on this thread
I have read most of the post and it seems that people are entrenched in a particular view that they think is correct...and I am not going to change that or try to change that
We need to step back and look at the bigger picture
1) The government kicked the can down the road to buy themselves time to see if the Covid situation was going to sort it self out. I think that this was correct
2) unfortunately it has seemed that this cannot and will not be possible, if we were to look into our crystal ball now we cannot predict what the situation will be in late July early Aug.
3) I see posts of people teacher slamming saying that it is the unions that’s are preventing the exams going ahead. I wonder do these people have a child in 6th year.
4) I think the decision to cancel the exams is correct because of all the what if questions..
...what it my Johnny is in an exam hall and someone starts coughing or showing symptoms...will he and all in the hall be quarantined
...my Johnny lives in rural Ireland and travels to school on the school bus scheme..how can he 2m isolate on a bus when we don’t have other means to transport him to school
...what if my Johnny is prevented from doing all his exams due to the exams in a certain centre been stopped on health reasons.
5) The real fear seems to be is that a teacher will not be honest in giving an honest predictive grade. School principals will have to step up to the mark here and question/ ask for proof of submitted grades. My fear is that grades would be overinflated by some teachers in wanting to make themselves look good. However a good principal would see a grade that seems not in line with other grades or with Christmas/ summer/ pre grades and ask for proof of submitted grades. If the minister said that this would occur then I would predict that each teacher should be able to estimate to within 5% the actual grade a student should get.
6) Each teacher should submit there grade to the principal/ dept of Ed. and when all grades are submitted an overall points is awarded to a student. The student will not be told what grade is given in any subject, this will/ should prevent them claiming bias against any teacher.
7) If a student gets say 400 points in this system then I would give a 5% leeway ( or 10%) ie 20 points in a ousts even they apply for, so if their 1st choice is 415 then I would deem them eligible for the course.
8) If after a year/ semester that it is seen that they are not capable for the course then they should be allowed free of charge to change to a course on their CAO that has a max points of 400.
9) These are extraordinary times and need thinking outside the box..
This is just my views..imagine and hope that a think tank of the best educational minds will be mindful of this and a lot more...it the LC is cancelled there is a reason for it..it’s easy to be a keyboard warrior stirring it with snide comments hoping to get a reaction but this is not helpful,to the thousands of leaving cert students who log into this in their spare time
Stay safe..things will improve..
Now that is a well written piece.0 -
The infrastructure existed in other countries for predictive grades. It doesn't exist here. This will be like opening up the building site that is the National Children's Hospital tomorrow morning.
That is a fair point but are we surprised really?
Inertia and the Public Sector in Ireland are well-fitted gloves. The technology is there, the infrastructure can be built but it takes leadership and some cop on to get it done.
This pandemic lifts the carpet on the decades of this type of thinking and lack of planning when it comes to the adoption of new methods of educating, working, policing and so on.
We can automate and leverage technology so much more, but when some people here the words 'automate' they get nervous and get Unions involved. Hence, very little changes because many people want the status quo, or at least don't want any change that affects negatively on their day to day.
Take for example, the NBP, to cost €3 Billion. Looks cheap now doesn't it, yet we had every moaner and whinger under the sun giving out about it.0 -
CrabRevolution wrote: »I'd argue that they did cause this with a loud campaign for the LC to be cancelled. Why should they benefit from it?
Also you seem to be under the impression that by simply handing out more points, course numbers will expand and more people get to do the course they want. In reality someone getting an inflated grade will be taking the spot of someone who could deserve a spot on merit.
Say a student is a 570 point student. Ignoring the HPAT, in a normal year they'd get Medicine in UCD. But this year we've handed out H1s by the new time because students "need to enjoy life", and the 570 point student loses their place in Medicine to students who in any other year would never have gotten in because they would have gotten an accurate grade that reflected their abilities.
Exactly who says there handing out H1’s that is not fair on students that deserve H1’s they’ll need good evidence they deserve a H1 before they’ll get it . The hpat is done and dusted and results are in there’s no little Johnny saying today I want to be a doctor, I’ll change my cao .
Certainly I know we have been left in exact position u mention and places won’t be there . But until colleges do a pre entrance exam to determine a persons suitability for these higher courses were going no where . It’s time to overhaul that leaving cert or indeed acceptance to certain college courses that are hard fought over . Continuous assessment and entrance exams I would be in favour of a more balanced approach.
Points are one thing suitability is an entirely different matter . The hpat is a good system for entry to medicine otherwise it would be a minefield and u need similar for other high end courses
I can only be specific what matters in our own case , anyway I’m hopeful we get Uk even though I’d love to keep them here but places won’t be there and even less now over this decision but so be it .0 -
markodaly wrote:Take for example, the NBP, to cost €3 Billion. Looks cheap now doesn't it, yet we had every moaner and whinger under the sun giving out about it.
People are right to moan and whinge about it, it should remain under full public ownership after the fact0 -
I think the vast majority of students would be disgusted at the prospect of post March 12 efforts playIng a significant role in determining their grade .Inspector Coptoor wrote: »Hmmm
Let’s say mocks were in late Jan.
That means for senior cycle on school data base - there are probably 5 entries.
Christmas 5th year
Summer 5th year
Christmas 6th year
Mocks
Maybe a mid term
And nothing since Jan or Feb mid term.
All the while, courses are being finished and concepts are clicking and students are improving.
I’d be disgusted if I wasn’t consulted.0 -
That is a fair point but are we surprised really?
Inertia and the Public Sector in Ireland are well-fitted gloves. The technology is there, the infrastructure can be built but it takes leadership and some cop on to get it done.
This pandemic lifts the carpet on the decades of this type of thinking and lack of planning when it comes to the adoption of new methods of educating, working, policing and so on.
We can automate and leverage technology so much more, but when some people here the words 'automate' they get nervous and get Unions involved. Hence, very little changes because many people want the status quo, or at least don't want any change that affects negatively on their day to day.
Take for example, the NBP, to cost €3 Billion. Looks cheap now doesn't it, yet we had every moaner and whinger under the sun giving out about it.
Change the record Marko . This is about predictive grading not a chance to start bashing public sector, teachers, and unions.0 -
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This is my first post on this thread
I have read most of the post and it seems that people are entrenched in a particular view that they think is correct...and I am not going to change that or try to change that
We need to step back and look at the bigger picture
1) The government kicked the can down the road to buy themselves time to see if the Covid situation was going to sort it self out. I think that this was correct
2) unfortunately it has seemed that this cannot and will not be possible, if we were to look into our crystal ball now we cannot predict what the situation will be in late July early Aug.
3) I see posts of people teacher slamming saying that it is the unions that’s are preventing the exams going ahead. I wonder do these people have a child in 6th year.
4) I think the decision to cancel the exams is correct because of all the what if questions..
...what it my Johnny is in an exam hall and someone starts coughing or showing symptoms...will he and all in the hall be quarantined
...my Johnny lives in rural Ireland and travels to school on the school bus scheme..how can he 2m isolate on a bus when we don’t have other means to transport him to school
...what if my Johnny is prevented from doing all his exams due to the exams in a certain centre been stopped on health reasons.
5) The real fear seems to be is that a teacher will not be honest in giving an honest predictive grade. School principals will have to step up to the mark here and question/ ask for proof of submitted grades. My fear is that grades would be overinflated by some teachers in wanting to make themselves look good. However a good principal would see a grade that seems not in line with other grades or with Christmas/ summer/ pre grades and ask for proof of submitted grades. If the minister said that this would occur then I would predict that each teacher should be able to estimate to within 5% the actual grade a student should get.
6) Each teacher should submit there grade to the principal/ dept of Ed. and when all grades are submitted an overall points is awarded to a student. The student will not be told what grade is given in any subject, this will/ should prevent them claiming bias against any teacher.
7) If a student gets say 400 points in this system then I would give a 5% leeway ( or 10%) ie 20 points in a ousts even they apply for, so if their 1st choice is 415 then I would deem them eligible for the course.
8) If after a year/ semester that it is seen that they are not capable for the course then they should be allowed free of charge to change to a course on their CAO that has a max points of 400.
9) These are extraordinary times and need thinking outside the box..
This is just my views..imagine and hope that a think tank of the best educational minds will be mindful of this and a lot more...it the LC is cancelled there is a reason for it..it’s easy to be a keyboard warrior stirring it with snide comments hoping to get a reaction but this is not helpful,to the thousands of leaving cert students who log into this in their spare time
Stay safe..things will improve..
Who said it cannot and will not be possible?
The dissemination rate has fallen below one. By all accounts the phases in the roadmap are still going ahead as planned. By the end of July people should be back at work, children should be in creches, people going back to mass.
These are extraordinary times and thinking inside the box is better than thinking outside of it.0 -
According to the Irish times students have to opt in to sit their papers
And will not do so till 2021............
I’ve a bad feeling about this “proposal”!0 -
The department completely cocked up changing the date to July 29th, but having no timetable from that date released. There are countries in europe holding their exams next month, our leaving was due to be held in nearly 3 months time. Given the mess over this, and arguably bigger mess of their original plan for JC, the leadership at the top of the department should be severely questioned.
Pressure coming from parents now is a strong strong concern. Particularly if you are a teacher living in the same town as the school0 -
According to the Irish times students have to opt in to sit their papers
And will not do so till 2021............
I’ve a bad feeling about this “proposal”!
This was mentioned in the original leaked report yesterday but the wording was vague - “opportunity to resit early next year”. Some people would have read that as the calendar year, others, the academic year.0 -
Big letter in Irish indo from a student calling for leaving cert to be run
To protect students mental health !
This is the mess that has been created now0 -
Big letter in Irish indo from a student calling for leaving cert to be run
To protect students mental health !
This is the mess that has been created now
Wellbeing is a word that has almost poisoned every conversation around exams now. Started off with good intentions but now used as an excuse to question anything difficult.0 -
The lack of international students is completely overblown in University. There will be a high repeat rate, less resources available, and there still will be international students. There won't be a huge increase (if any) in the number of places for the vast majority of courses. Medicine and a few others aside that is.
For example, I reckon we've about 20 in our undergrad out of a few hundred. International students are just not a factor.
Non-EU students are mainly in postgrads, I'd say.0 -
Mirror, I get you, but you did what was best and right for your students, you did what would challenge them to improve and perform at their best when it mattered .. the actual LC exam.mirrorwall14 wrote: »But what about the time in between? Our mocks were way back in January. My students have improved enormously since then and I gave them the whole paper then. I give full exam questions in fifth year house exams. I mark hard. Two students this year managed a H2 in the mock (which i changed to make it not a regurgitation of what they saw online) and would have been in line to be borderline H1 by now. But I haven’t had a H1 student in a few years as classes are small and they just weren’t there. So I don’t know how either of those students are served by any sort of grade based set up. And in fact have been set up badly by me because I mark hard and give hard tests. So it’s my fault
Again, the difference between formative and summative testing ...
And this is why predictive grading is and was always going to be a mess.
And maybe we would have hit the spot where we had no choice but to go for PG, and to do our best in that mess. None of us can control this bloody virus.
But we hadn't reached that point yet by about 4-6 weeks.
And if that's the decision announced to-day, it represents a lack of cojones more than anything else.
And no, mirror, it will NOT be your fault.
And it won't be the students' faults either.
But, as my mother would say ... be careful what you wish for.0 -
maynooth_rules wrote: »Wellbeing is a word that has almost poisoned every conversation around exams now. Started off with good intentions but now used as an excuse to question anything difficult.
And mental health. If delaying an exam causes anxiety so severe that you are self harming, the exam is not the problem.0 -
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So are the Harry Potter books, and like the Harry Potter books, that post has little bearing on reality. Based on what I've seen of your posts, you really don't understand the situation at all. Maybe you should read back over this thread (all of it), and become better informed about what you're commenting on?Millionaire only not wrote: »Now that is a well written piece.
I'm entrenched in my view (and I will conceded that I very much am) that the leaving cert must go ahead if at all possible because it's the most fair way to do things, and there are massive flaws with any model of predicted grades or any non-leaving cert alternative I've seen proposed, including yours. If someone proposed a viable alternative, I would support it, but it hasn't happened yet, in so far as I've seen.This is my first post on this thread
I have read most of the post and it seems that people are entrenched in a particular view that they think is correct...and I am not going to change that or try to change that
We do. I agree. The students who aren't going to be going to college anyway, and will never achieve a higher qualification than their leaving cert, for example, are being continuously overlooked in all of this.We need to step back and look at the bigger picture
I don't agree with your phrasing it as "kicked the can down the road", but I agree that the government were right to take some time to figure this out. It's a pity they also made some kneejerk decisions (awarding full marks to the orals etc.) before doing it, and then, apparently, have used the time to decide that it's better to put popular opinion before the long-term good of the students.1) The government kicked the can down the road to buy themselves time to see if the Covid situation was going to sort it self out. I think that this was correct
Well yes, we can't, but the signs are that it won't actually be too bad by then (numbers of cases and deaths are falling), and the plan is to have almost everything open in mid-August, and the schools and colleges back in September, so cancelling the leaving cert and moving on to a deeply flawed alternative, whatever that is, is extremely premature.2) unfortunately it has seemed that this cannot and will not be possible, if we were to look into our crystal ball now we cannot predict what the situation will be in late July early Aug.
Not ignoring this. I just don't feel there's a need to discuss this point, which is not to say I entirely agree with it.3) I see posts of people teacher slamming saying that it is the unions that’s are preventing the exams going ahead. I wonder do these people have a child in 6th year.
This will apply until there's a vaccine. Will we cancel all exams every time someone coughs until one is found?4) I think the decision to cancel the exams is correct because of all the what if questions..
...what it my Johnny is in an exam hall and someone starts coughing or showing symptoms...will he and all in the hall be quarantined
The government could actually pay for more buses and taxis....my Johnny lives in rural Ireland and travels to school on the school bus scheme..how can he 2m isolate on a bus when we don’t have other means to transport him to school
See my point above....what if my Johnny is prevented from doing all his exams due to the exams in a certain centre been stopped on health reasons.
Not to anyone who actually knows what they're talking about. That's not a fear because 99% of teachers have their students' best interests at heart, and of the tiny minority who don't, I doubt many will use this as their opportunity to take revenge on students.5) The real fear seems to be is that a teacher will not be honest in giving an honest predictive grade.
The real fear is that a lot of teachers have never been in this position before and will get it wrong, probably by accidentally being too generous, but it could be too harsh, due to not knowing about extra work the student has put in since the closure, extra grinds they were getting which wasn't reflected in their school work, etc.
I think you've missed something really obvious here: do teachers look better by awarding "overinflated" grades, or does the school? Or both? What on earth makes you think that principals of schools in areas of high competition for students won't be delighted when they see a teacher awarding grades they suspect are a bit too high? Who do you think benefits more from a school being higher up the "league tables" - teachers or principals?School principals will have to step up to the mark here and question/ ask for proof of submitted grades. My fear is that grades would be overinflated by some teachers in wanting to make themselves look good.
If anything, it will be the opposite of what you're suggesting - that teachers will have to "step up" and tell their principals "no, I think Johnny wouldn't have done that well, because he's shown no evidence that he would, and I won't sign off on a higher grade", but that won't happen either, because teachers don't especially want to have a row over a child's future with their boss.
A good principal (and a mediocre principal, and a bad principal) has more important things to do than scrutinise every grade from every teacher in a leaving cert year of 150-200 students to check for grades that are a little more generous (or tight) than they should be.However a good principal would see a grade that seems not in line with other grades or with Christmas/ summer/ pre grades and ask for proof of submitted grades.
That's the problem with making predictions when you're coming from a position of absolutely no experience though, isn't it? Most teachers have never marked for the SEC, so they don't actually know how things are marked. Their students do well, not because the teacher is an expert at setting exams and grading students, but because they're experts in teaching what's on the course.If the minister said that this would occur then I would predict that each teacher should be able to estimate to within 5% the actual grade a student should get.
Sure, but what if they've put down say chemistry in NUI Galway as their first choice on their CAO, but they failed chemistry? That student has no idea they're now doing a course that the leaving cert suggests they won't be able for.6) Each teacher should submit there grade to the principal/ dept of Ed. and when all grades are submitted an overall points is awarded to a student. The student will not be told what grade is given in any subject, this will/ should prevent them claiming bias against any teacher.
What if it's engineering, but they didn't get the grade in maths?
What if it's primary teaching, but they only passed Irish because they were awarded 100% for their oral, which they'd never have managed if it had actually been examined? Students actually need (and frankly, deserve) to know what they got in their subjects. The leaving cert isn't just about points anyway. What about the students who aren't going to college? (See what I said about them being overlooked?)
This is probably the part that made me want to answer your post. You seem to think that colleges set the points for a course, based on the level of students they want doing the course. The points for a given course is set by the student with the lowest points who gets offered it. If there are 100 places in medicine, and 99 people who applied got 600 points, but then, in this made up and unrealistic scenario, nobody else who applied got anywhere close to that, and the next highest points, achieved by the 100th guy, and the last guy to be offered the course, was 300, then the points for that medicine course is 300.7) If a student gets say 400 points in this system then I would give a 5% leeway ( or 10%) ie 20 points in a ousts even they apply for, so if their 1st choice is 415 then I would deem them eligible for the course.
If the points for your course are 415, that means that if everyone takes up their offers for that course, it's full, and the lowest points anyone in the course got is 415. Do you expect them to start magicing up extra places for people who then came withing 5% of that total?
Again, see above. It's not about points. It's about places. No issue with the "free of charge" part, but these last two points suggest to me that you don't understand how the points system works at all.8) If after a year/ semester that it is seen that they are not capable for the course then they should be allowed free of charge to change to a course on their CAO that has a max points of 400.
Do you think we haven't been? I want the leaving cert to go ahead, because I think it's the best way to provide the fairest outcome to the students, but I'm well aware that that might not be possible to do safely (although I think it's much too early to make that call). The problem is that I haven't come up with anything better, and every alternative that's been suggested has been deeply flawed.9) These are extraordinary times and need thinking outside the box..
I have great* ideas for leaving cert reform that would maintain the best aspects of what we have now, and eliminate some of the problems with it, but nobody's going to ask me.
SIZE="1"]*Since nobody's asking me, it's quite possible they're not great, and deeply flawed.[/SIZE
Fair enough. You're entitled to your views, and you're entitled to voice them. I hope you can now see why you're wrong about most of them. I hope too, that you don't interpret my response as "snide comments hoping to get a reaction", because that is not the intention.This is just my views..imagine and hope that a think tank of the best educational minds will be mindful of this and a lot more...it the LC is cancelled there is a reason for it..it’s easy to be a keyboard warrior stirring it with snide comments hoping to get a reaction
With all due respect to those students, this is the teaching and lecturing forum. There is a leaving cert forum. If a student was a fly on the wall in their school's staff room, they could expect to hear some harsh truths, and the same applies here. The fact that we want what's best for our students doesn't mean we have to sugar coat everything. The fact that this year's students have it hard doesn't change the fact that I believe we need to do the right things for all of our students. Most of the class of 2020 will only do the leaving cert once (if at all :rolleyes: ). I might have another 20 leaving certs to do before I retire, and those students also deserve to be treated fairly. The students who did their leaving cert last year, and took a year out, before they enter the points race this year deserve to be treated fairly.... but this is not helpful,to the thousands of leaving cert students who log into this in their spare time
The leaving cert, if it goes ahead, will be the fairest solution, not just for those who do the exam this year, but also for those they're competing with who did or will do their leaving cert in different years.
Agreed. Probably significantly so, before July 29th.Stay safe..things will improve..0
This discussion has been closed.
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